"He withdrew from courtly life, rejected personal ambition, and built his identity around faith and chastity."
In a way, Harwin too demonstrated a quiet form of devotion. As heir to Harrenhal, he was expected to marry and secure a political alliance, yet he never did. Instead, both in the book and the show, he remained devoted to Princess Rhaenyra, maintaining a visible presence in her household and staying loyal to her until his death. His decision to remain unmarried, despite the expectations, reflects a private, principled form of commitment. He did not openly challenge the political order, but he also refused to participate in its fiction. He chose to stay, to love, and to serve, without recognition, reward, or protection. Where Bonifer removed himself from court entirely, Harwin remained close, quietly accepting the risks of forbidden proximity. He just loved Rhaenyra.
Daemon Targaryen’s path was more openly defiant. Married at sixteen to Rhea, he had no say in the matter and rejected it on every level...emotionally, physically, and politically. He never consummated the union, thereby denying House Royce any chance at a Targaryen heir. While some frame his actions as arrogance, they can also be read as the only form of resistance available to a young man forced into a life he never chose. Later, Daemon reclaimed his agency by securing his own marriages, first to Laena Velaryon, then to Rhaenyra, both made on his terms. In Laena’s case, he went so far as to kill a Braavosi suitor in a duel to secure her hand. His choices reflect a man who, once given control, acted decisively and unapologetically.
Daemon Blackfyre’s story, despite its romantic framing, lacks the personal cost or emotional risk that defines the others. His supposed heartbreak was never expressed, never acted upon, and never cost him anything until it became politically useful. Unlike Bonifer, Harwin, and Daemon, who took personal and emotional risks, Daemon Blackfyre conformed until ambition, not love, drove him to rebel.
Now I did not watch the new S2 episode. I'm hearing abt it from people who have. And pretty much all the leaks were authentic regarding B&C.
I wrote abt the Sophie's Choice of bk!Helaena in the bk!B&C HERE, when someone asked me abt it. The other unserious things abt Blood & Cheese of HotD is that in the bk:
the psychological torture Helaena goes thru could either be Cheese trying to have fun (unlikely, they were on a "timer") OR it is Daemon reverting, perverting, etc. Rhaenyra's loss--Rhaenyra was not there to witness Lucerys or even be able to have his remains....Helaena will participate in her own son's murder, so to speak
bk!Cheese was very knowledgesble abt where to go and how, which tunnels to use...which is why he was chosen in the first place and why his "job "profession" (ratcatcher) is so important, bc these guys know where to lay traps in hidden places for rats -> to make as if Cheese is ignorant as to how to lead Blood into the castle makes as if Daemon was more incompetent and careless than either have been canonically shown to be, even when they are angry or aggrieved
also, regarding show!Helaena giving offering her necklace and very quickly pointing out which kid was a boy as if she could not wait to abandon Jaehaerys while bk!Helaena offered her very life before she was forced to choose any kid is just disrespectful not only to her intelligence but neurodivergent people. Esp since if we argue she had some sort of autism or what have you. To rely on one's neurodivergence to explain why they--compared to the book where she was more active--didn't take that action is a cop out and is almost a generalization. Please. Again, she's supposedly a dreamer and has had access to such dreams since her preteen yrs in the show, so it's likely she had known what was going to happen in this moment if she also had known abt "beast beneath the boards", "spiders (the war)", etc. No HotD didn't show us more moments exactly proving that, but since they also had her do absolutely nothing with those visions like the original Cassandra actually tried to do, no one can tell me it didn't happen. In fact, I can say it's bc she never actually does anything with her dreams (and therefore we'll never really know if she had B&C "dreams" so I can cont with this hypothetical, as its likelihood is stronger than it should have been) that I can say that even her own kids dying doesn't seem to faze her enough to make a plan of sorts to herself? Or to be able to think as she tried in the bk when they forced her to choose. Show!Helaena has "dreams" (they aren't even dragon dreams) but unlike Cassandra, she does nothing with them. Again, it very likely B&C appeared to her in her so-called "dreams", she does what she always does--nothing...but not only does she finally decide to do something, she thought a fucking necklace would help her or her kids and this is as much as we get for her in this show? We had the opp to display a fuller character apart from her emotional remove and suggestion of prophecy, and when we do, we only see her like this? They traveled all this way, risked getting caught and viciously executed, to kill ONE mutherfucking child, and these writers really thought that it was a good idea to have Helaena do this, think this would work even an iota? No, all this was such lazy, cheap writing bc the writers decided that her just having visions made up for her small character in the orig tale and that they didn't have to do else for her--they started and left her half done, it seems. Let's say the B&C dream never appeared to her; this is till the writers taking away the agency I already described above in the link---Helaena is a nothing character whose dreams still mean nothing to no one expect people who want to feel smart the way it exists in the show itself. Helaena has always been a victim, but they made her more abominably victimized...as I already said they do HERE & HERE. She's just around, waiting to be abused by the script and those around her for plot convenience's sake. There is no substance or personhood to her, she is only a purpose.
So, love that for Ryan. Seemed lukewarm.
But what did anyone expect, seeing as the same writers responsible for Aemond's "accident" (having tried for months to convince us that this was exusable even with it not being his intention to kill), for Alicent sincerely forgiving Rhaenyra after she had been on her ass and abusing her and her kids (and threatening their lives) for years and almost stabbing out Luke's eye, for Rhaenyra somehow being so affected by a stupid ass page of Nymeria (of all people!, you made Alicent pull out this page of a woman who lead armies to conquest as a consummate leader in her own right, who lead said armies to make sure her people survived, in order to dissuade Rhaenyra from fighting for what she sees as her birthright/designated seat of power and to also make sure her family/unit survives?!) to derail her from really confronting any of them in battle...🤷🏿♂️
In a way, Rhea and Rhaenyra found themselves on the same side of a system that expected noblewomen to be dutiful wives and mothers, where a woman’s value was often tied to her ability to reproduce and uphold alliances with her body. Even as heirs, their status didn’t shield them from being reduced to vessels.
Both were placed in politically strategic marriages with grooms who couldn’t, or wouldn’t, fulfill the roles expected of them. The difference lay in how the men they were paired with responded.
Rhaenyra and Laenor built a relationship based on mutual understanding. They protected each other’s autonomy, gave one another the space to live freely, and upheld the political fiction that kept them both safe. It wasn’t a traditional marriage, but it worked because they chose to cooperate.
Daemon, on the other hand, was forced into a role he resented, and he projected that resentment onto Rhea. Instead of confronting the system that arranged the match, he displaced his frustration onto her. The slur “bronze bitch” functioned as a way to degrade her because she stood for something he hated: his own lack of choice. Ultimately, Rhea paid the price for his resistance. It didn’t impact Alysanne. It didn’t make Viserys reconsider. It just hurt the woman who had no more say in the arrangement than he did.
Daemon was resisting the system that stripped him of agency — but in doing so, he enacted that same system’s logic. He didn’t dismantle it; he reenacted it. His anger was valid, but his protest wasn’t directed upward — it landed on someone else trapped inside the same structure. What began as a rejection of coercion became a reenactment of it, and Rhea bore the consequences of a rebellion.
Daemon is a man, and men in Westeros are already afforded the privilege of resistance without complete ruin. He had the freedom to protest, to mock, to walk away, have lovers, and still marry again, hold office, ride dragons, and win wars. And while I understand Daemon’s desire to reclaim autonomy — and his frustration was real — his actions weren’t. He punished a woman for surviving male discomfort. It's complicated...
These are very critical points, I might just reference them later. Thanks anon! And I agree, what is wrong with Daemon is that he directs his anger on the wrong person and before others try to justify it as he loved his brother/family and he couldn't really do anything against them regardless bc of their authority over him, none of that really excuses the fact that he could have just not insulted Rhea and so openly if he had the choice.
I'm specifically talking about his verbal insults as well as openly and publicly sleeping with multiple different women while not impregnating her. I didn't say he had to love her or even think her attractive. I don't even think he had to necessarily build a life with her, but would it have killed him to not be so hateful towards a person who also didn't ask for this marriage and did nothing to him?
The thing about Mirri defenders, I mean people who defend her very worst actions, is that they're Dany haters first. And what's infuriating is that if you really think about it, Mirri is everything they claim Dany is.
Anon is talking more about this recent reblog. I have another reblog of some other person trying to say that Rhaenyra's action of blaming the greens for Visenya was, they imply, dumb and needs to be entirely dismissed HERE, another Mirri defender who also implies that whenever and whatever Alicent says is morally correct is such.
You mean a person who puts everything precious to life below their own need for control & personal revenge for the true horrors done to them AND is wholly irrational or ususe irrational arguments for why they are doing what they are doing and framing it as justice to hide from accountability to boot? Yeah, you're right, anon, that's exactly what's happening.
*EDIT - 5/30/25* Yes, Mirri was justified to seek revenge for what happened to her and her people....against those who were ACTUALLY responsible, who she didn't. She had the option of going after Drogo's khas, but bc she had no easier way of access to them, she went after the girl carrying Drogo's legacy/what she THOUGHT was the Stallion That Mounts the World.
We were meant to recognize Mirri's going after Dany-Rhaego as her blinded by her rage and trauma, NOT a justifiable or necessary thing! *EDIT* 12/12/24 Once more, she uses the stallion prophecy as justification but she "forgets" that BEFORE she ever tried to kill Rhaego, Drogo had already been dying with no recourse! So how exactly could have Rhaego become the Stallion and inevitably become a pillager and rapist?! People argue that that he comes from rape and/or he has Dothraki-khal "genes" at all, he would regardless....this is racism. And ableism when you factor in their ideas about Targ "madness". *END OF EDIT*
Some of the same people will argue for Mirri against Rhaego (really Dany) but if given the chance, would condemn and argue against Mirri using racist arguments at any other situation or if Dany were not a queen but a Dead Lady or another long suffering Targ.
Once again, Mirri was wrong for what she did to Dany and by extension Rhaego--the child Dany definitely both wanted and was physically so vulnerable being pregnant for (bc of her juvenile age of 14, her body should never have been impregnation and "tasked" with birth; look below to the passage of Dany almost dying) she very likely could have died from Mirri forcing Rhaego to get aborted from her. I could give a fuck about Drogo and how Mirri tricked Dany towards him, Dany does have complex kinda Stockholm syndrom in regards to him and a lot of people/girls-women would. AND that would be Mirri's true justifiable, thus tolerable and safe revenge, as it is Drogo who ruined her and her people's lives:
Mirri obviously cursed or used up the child and induced Dany towards near-fatal labor. Why are we believing a woman who did not feel the fetus inside her move over the girl who did?! Esp when Mirri goes on to admit she killed Rhaego after a long attempt and repetiotus attemot at gaslighting Dany about how she would fix Drogo by trying to make it Dany's fault that she should have not trusted a person who's life she endangered herself for before?! She cursed Rhaego and Dany deliberately, too, to prevent what she thought was inevitable, when Drogo ahd been already dying! The man who also made said 14 yr old pregnant when she had no room to ever say "no"--why is Dany the peros who has to pay for Drogo's actions?! Because she was in the way and the way for Drogo to "live on" or cont fucking lives up through their kid in Mirri's esitmation.
None of this shit about babies turning out evil bec their mom was raped or her dad was a rapist or bec the Dothraki pass down their rapist innate genes down to Rhaego--shut that shit down! That's racist AND medieval ignormauses talk! *EDIT* 12/12/24 Esp with Drogo already having been dying before Mirri tried to kill Rhaego! *END OF EDIT* If that were true, Jon Snow should have turned out as an evil menace as Euron Greyjoy or Ramsey, with how the same people argue for the Targ madness and it being passed down...but he doesn't. It's also sexist, bc why can't Dany's actual compassionate core influence this child, when she would literally be most of what he has and all her Dothraki horde would be under her direct authority and she already is not afraid of banning egregious "traditional" acts?
rainhadaenerys says this, too, which I missed and keep forgetting:
Random thought I just had: interesting how people in this fandom are horrified by Daemon's action of killing a child as a way to get revenge on the child's father/uncle, but at the same time are totally ok with Mirri killing a child as a way to get revenge on the child's father.
Daemon was horrible and wrong for targeting children bc they were children, not because he did or didn't have a "good" reason to be fucked up. The fucked-action is fucked bc it resulted in a killed child, not bc the person was in a class of "deserving" to perform said horrible actions. He wasn't raped nor a vulnerable women in a feudlaist world like Mirri, but Mirri also still went out of her way to destroy another child's life in her revenge against an adult. TWO kids, Dany and Rhaego-the-wanted-fetus-soon-to-be-infant. In the past, I never said Daemon wasn't evil for this, I said that it is very strange how people try to lessen Aemond's murdering Luke by saying Luke hurt him first and/or Luke really did "steal" his "right" bc he's "just a bastard" (and thus deserves to die or his death has less meaning no matter how terrible). Even though Luke sliced out Aemond's eye when he was so much younger than Aemond, much smaller, AND most of all Aemond had been attacking him and his brothers whern he didn't have to and when he was in a place he already shouldn't have been. People love to deny or put down Aemond's hatred, political ambition, self repression, and entitlement (started and partly nurtured by Otto and Alicent and the Faith and society as a whole) as true motivations towards his actions and put ALL said evilness towards either Luke or Rhaenyra or Daemon.
Again, Daemon is no saint: he's still a beneficiary of theis feudal world and claims it whenever he can, he's also entitled, has his own ambitions, and he's downright vile for a lot of things including this, BUT he's also got all this extra misassigned blame or is framed as the architect for the ills others have done against him/those he cares about...not even for revenge (like Mirri) against him but for their personal ambition and subsequent envy-hatred themselves--and for what?! "Hurt people hurt people", Yeah, doesn't make them right nor not a menace when they do terrible things that bring extreme harm towards others! Which is what a lot of people argue for Mirri--refer back to that orig relog chain I reblogged.
Sorry for bringing Daemon and the Dance up, but this reminded me of that post and that matter.
Not people jumping to blame DAEMON'S influence for Jace calling bastards "mongrels." When has Daemon EVER been bastardphobic? His attitudes towards Jace's parentage include some possible jealousy while he and Laena were both being good natured about it, seeming kind of proud of Rhaenyra when she admitted it, seeming pretty enthusiastic about wedding his daughters to "bastards", and literally killing a man for insulting Rhaenyra and her boys. I just simply don't get where this "Daemon is a blood supremacist" (more than any other noble is) comes from when he gives no fuck aside from jealousy about Rhaenyra "sullying" their Valyrian blood with Strong blood and putting her bastards on their precious dragons. Alicent is the most likely source of Jace's internalized insecurities (because that's what that was) so why do people keep pretending otherwise? Am I missing something?
I think that it's an opportunity to slam Targs, use the less-than-great reputation Daemon has amongst some fans--which includes his supposed "special" pride, and finally to incorporate Jacaerys into that to "prove" Targ-evil and unique amorality. That is pretty much all, aside from how Condal & co have written their version of a Jace to be less secure in himself and have less...I guess "family" as its truest phenomenon. Again, Daemon lived w/Rhaenyra her her co on Dragonstone for abt 1o or a little more with both Baela & Rhaena. Before that, it had been Harwin with occasional & then more frequent visits from Laenor. He more or less grew up away from the court Alicent presided even as he experienced some of the stigma of being even suspected as a bastard, esp from Alicent's supporters, here & there. But more so from his uncles: Aegon, Aemond, perhaps Daeron, too who'd follow his older brothers.
I also think it's bc Daemon has a lot of pride in his house that they are bound to think are white supremacists/colonizers and has disliked Rhea Royce from the beginning while being more amenable to Laena and Rhaenyra, who are both much more Valyrian-by-lineage than Rhea, who has none. Nobles are engrossed in making sure their marriages afford them the best possible access to resources and the prestige associated to whatever house so that they may have issue who can brings usch things into the "home" house or out to the house(s) chosen and favored. It's a way to organize wealth and power. Targs on Valyria and the rest of Valyria saw strength in their dragons, the pinnacle of such power matter of fact. So--as they too, maybe, didn't have that much knowledge about genetics work outside of the magic that in Planetos is more unpredictable than other magical systems--they decided that to preserve their power/dragon bonds, they must do as many other aristocracies did--marry closely and keep that line towards power amongst themselves. I said all of this before, but it bears repeating. Daemon & the Westerosi ruling Targs , however, has never gone out of their way to create a racist system except maybe Daeron I with Dorne if he had ever succeeded in conquering it (in which case, the Dornish are not nonwhite in GRRM's lore, so that racial system would not really mirror out own very well and be its own thing entirely).
Daemon has never even displayed true blood purity the way Alicent was closer to in 1x06 when she commented on how she called them "plain-featured" and groused abt how she couldn't understand how they could have hatched their dragons...while 3 of her kids had to wait till they were much older to bond with one. Daemon never called anyone anything that espoused he thought them as lesser in the exact degree or way that Lord Celtigar does in I think 2x06? 7? (I recently ___ epi 7 and watched w/ a few friends) when he protested against Alyn getting a dragon and even called it "theft". And we see in how he interacts with Alys how he was never actually blood purist with her...an actual unrelated bastard. Daemon just cares about whether you can be trusted to not supplant family, and the Targtowers are too mired in Seven/Faith influence to be "trustworthy".
It also stems from people not truly understanding what blood purity is & its elements or what it looks like when practiced and in the open, active. You hear people make the mistake of assuming the Targs are all blood purists bc they dislike how "keeping the blood pure" thru sibling marriage for dragonriding sounds to them like the Valyrians were ready for phrenology and eugenics and all that...If this were true, however, every single society (or at least most)--and that includes many non-white societies like the Egyptians, some Polynesians, East Asians, etc. as that particular kind of "blood purists". I list of these out bc you will find such "keeping blood pure" practices in nonwhite ancient societies as well. Often. Class=/= race, though it definitely laid the frames for race as we know it; racial systems have inherited ideas of racial difference from class assumptions of difference b/t aristocratic classes and the have-nots. To put it oversimply.
Still, they are not the same. Or we wouldn't have "white" people of real life AND Westeros also hate or abuse the other in their systems. If the Westerosi ruling Targs were that sort of "blood purists", they would have never allowed themselves to marry outside of their own family for fear of "dirtying" their "blood", or lineage. And they, more than the Starks, have had quite a diverse set of outer marriages through their entire dynasty.
I think Daemon just has a lot more expressed pride and arrogance that puts people off and leads them to make wrong, well-meaning conclusions. Oh, & of course HotD hasn't helped, with how they reduced his character at every turn possible.
I hate how Rhaenyra is being written. In F&B, her place as the protagonist is taken by Daemon thanks to GRRM’s fascination with him.
During the war, Daemon:
Advised the Black Council to send envoys to the Great Houses that hadn’t declared for Aegon, which helped get the Arryns and Starks on their side.
Captured Harrenhal without bloodshed with his dragon, allowing the Riverlanders to majority declare for Rhaenyra.
Led “a strong force” of Riverlanders to capture the last big Green supporting Castle, Stone Hedge.
Hired his mistress to kill one of Aegon’s children, resulting in his mother’s insanity and removing her as a dragonrider/voice of reason/even ability to escape.
Was the principal factor for the fall of King’s Landing for the Blacks. He led the Gold Cloaks decades before which inspired them so much they killed Alicent’s brother and turned the city over to Daemon.
Refused to obey Rhaenyra when she demanded Nettles be killed under guest right, allowing her to escape.
Waited 2 weeks for Aemond to appear at Harrenhal; succeeded in killing him by driving Dark Sister into his blind eye, as well as the biggest dragon Vhagar. His body was never found, so it’s still speculated he lived to be with Nettles.
Meanwhile, Rhaenyra:
Sent Knights Inquisitor to pursue those who let Aegon II escape the capital, and apparently the spikes on the gates started to be filled with more fresh heads each day.
Levied higher taxes on the peasants each day, turning them against her, especially when she planned lavish celebration to mark Joffrey as heir to the Iron Throne.
After the Two Betrayers burned Tumbleton, irrationally decided that the other two loyal dragonseeds were also going to betray her, so sent warrants for both their deaths. She even tortured her former father-in-law Corlys Velaryon because he’d helped Addam escape, making him defect to the Greens. Her warrant for Nettles’ death under guest right (a sacred custom) led both Lord Mooton and her husband chief supporter to turn on her as well.
Overthrown by the smallfolk and forced to fled King’s Landing after the Storming of the Dragonpit to Dragonstone.
Was betrayed at Dragonstone by a senior member of her garrison, her remaining knights killed. Eventually, Aegon fed her to his dragon Sunfyre, who ate her in 6 bites in front of her 10 years old son.
Side by side like this, there’s no comparison. Daemon despite being characterized as impulsive and ruthless, was able to win 3 victories with relatively little bloodshed, and gets a heroic and epic death (and he might still be alive!), killing a legendary dragon and the biggest threat to the Seven Kingdoms, saving the Riverlands from Aemond’s tyranny and ending his reign of terror, but abandoning the Black cause to save an innocent teenage girl. Meanwhile, Rhaenyra orders executions and high taxes and tortures, turns her biggest allies against her, is chased out of the city in 6 months, gets betrayed and eaten by a dragon (she’s definitely dead, since hundreds of people saw it). She doesn’t get a single success of her own (even Aegon managed that in getting Dragonstone to defect), while he gets several despite having someone kill a child. Caraxes is an “old, fast, clever dragon” who helps win Harrenhal without a fight and kill Vhagar, while Syrax is a lazy dragon who mainly exists to get Joffrey killed and then die in the dragonpit (even Sunfyre is better than her, essentially coming to Aegon’s rescue). It’s not necessarily that Rhaenyra’s cause fell apart when Daemon abandoned her (though considering how he’s made so epic it’s a blow), it’s that her irrational, tyrannical actions caused nearly everyone to abandon her. If she hadn’t issued the warrant for Addam and Nettles’ deaths based on nothing but paranoia, then Daemon and Corlys wouldn’t have betrayed her, and considering the Dragonpit would’ve still happened, she’d at least have 3 dragonriders plus the wealth/loyalty of Driftmark on her side. Daemon gets introduced as “made of lightness and darkness in equal parts” meanwhile Rhaenyra is written as one-sidedly incompetent and tyrannical (to the point that even Aegon outshines her sometimes, despite him also being astonishingly incompetent and psychotic). There’s no sense of balance to her, she does basically nothing but the wrong political moves, when she’s supposed to be the protagonist of this story.
[*EDITS* are dated in various posts of post]
"no sense of balance", this is a great criticism of bk!Rhaenyra, or rather the writing for her. finitefall wrote something about Rhaenyra's tyranny HERE, Watsonianly and Doylistically. But my answer will be long and maybe a tedious answer to you so ignore it when it gets dumb, anon. I'm shooting from the dome. There's no analysis happening in this post.
Essentially/To Summarize:
A)
Actually, Aegon was not as strategic as you think. No, he did not plan the Dragonstone fall or deliberate with anyone on how to seize it. that was done for him as much as Daemon taking Harrenhal for Rhaenyra was. And Rhaenyra had a set of circumstances that no other Targ monarch has had to face, not even Jaehaerys.
B)
However!!!! I have out of text v in-text critiques. Basically, as a Doylist argument, yeah I agree. In-text and if we take the story as is? I think it's to pull the these sides into the despair of war and highlight the irresponsibility of it falling here in the first place. Wars must be done for a good reason, not because you killed your sister's son and usurped her for power. Or that you pull your families into a war where they'll die and the realm will be plunged in with you. Yes, HotD had something to the whole "both sides", but not to the extent that they make it: why canon!Rhaenrya wars doesn't matter at all.
And GRRM could have done the above AND emphasize that this never should have happened if not by misogyny without falling back on sexist tropes himself. Which is why this isn't a feminist tale; not because:
Rhaenyra herself is or should be a feminist (that's impossible)
NOR because Fire and Blood was meant to be a "anti-female ruler" sort of thing (it was, but that's not the point I'm making) and this any events where Rhaenrya did ride on Syrax burning people or strategizing and working through her pain was deliberately left out (how can you hide that fact that Rhaenyra would have done the dragon burning at least?! Survivors are also giving testimony! By that argument, we can say it wasn't Baela who burned Aegon, it was some male dragonseed. Nah.)
It's not necessarily a feminist tale or even much of a pro woman one because:
GRRM had so many opportunities to showcase a woman actively participate in a war (in 2 different ways without her being a swordswoman or something like that: flaming bitches OR/AND strategy/tactics/logistics) she was using to reclaim her authority and position and power WHILE showing how Gyldayn's book tries to make her out to be incompetent or evil, …but didn't.*[6/1/24]*(and yes real histiographies or versions have both recorded great things women have achieved as they also brought both unsubtle and subtle bad-faith criticisms for those same actions [post from poorshadowspaintedqueens])*[6/1/24], END*
*[11/26/24]* And there's something to that; kings and rulers in general -- after maybe the 14th - 16th centuries, and even then, eh -- were largely both advised and usually to not directly go to battle or fight themselves. They let their commanders and their commanders' soldiers and peons do that, for obvious reasons.
Rhaenyra, also, canonically does delegate when she needed to--issue here people love to bring up is whether the stuff she planned out or wanted done not panning out well for her were bc:
her fault due to lack of intelligence or privileged "laziness"
not her fault by lack of time or space to plan/her kids' dying having a huge mental toll on her impairing her ability to think more on what she had to do so that she ws relgated to making the simplest delegatory decisions
The issue here and that I think you bring up is that we're not even given one major thing that came from Rhaenyra herself or Rhaenyra was inspired to do that also well for her. *[11/26/24], END*
You can still tell the tale of how she became too paranoid and make a point of how the sexist writers saw this as female weakness by forcing them to record major events where she didn't do that but they had to record that anyway because it was so impactful on scale or effect. You can still make us witness her decline at her own hands or have her sons' deaths, one by one, affect her responses to specific events in the war. Make it so that the people around her were being shady and that's what encourages her paranoia to strengthen, that would be better. Make some sort of misunderstanding situation happen with most/if not all her supporters. Make Celtigar or Corlys do some questionable stuff or suspicious stuff (or seem like it, we don't know who's in the shadows trying to divide the blacks after all…) so she reasonably starts to suspect them and lose her trust in them, these men she has to sort of depend on to lead her armies and naval support and direct her funds, and then have some green strike in the moment of unpreparedness. Something!
Instead, canon!Rhaenyra's mental decline is too caricaturistic. *[6/1/24]*There are also some tiny saving graces (listed below, way below), but again, TINY.*[6/1/24], END*
I imagine that this is all the motive for why you and some people might prefer show!Rhaenyra and her going to participate directly in the war as we've been clued on. I'll first say that I get why people do for S2 Rhaenyra...not so much S1 her. HERE is why I prefer bkRhaenyra before Rhaenyra-w-a-Sword popped up AND summarizing, bc the writing for her in the show is still bad and sexist, but worse because it denies the neutral/good parts of bk!Rhaenyra.
Still, Branwynhalfwitch of Twitter explains it better (S2 Rhaenyra, anticipation).
And your ask reminds me of this ASK/POST about the same issues with Rhaenyra's writing. That anon said what you describe:
I don’t get why Martin uses a mother’s grief so often as a convenient plot device to force passivity, silence and absence on his female characters to fit the requirements of the plot, why it’s always the women who break down, rend their garments and retreat from public life, whereas men react to similar tragedies with anger, pursuit of vengeance and singular political focus.
You:
It’s not necessarily that Rhaenyra’s cause fell apart when Daemon abandoned her (though considering how he’s made so epic it’s a blow), it’s that her irrational, tyrannical actions caused nearly everyone to abandon her. If she hadn’t issued the warrant for Addam and Nettles’ deaths based on nothing but paranoia, then Daemon and Corlys wouldn’t have betrayed her, and considering the Dragonpit would’ve still happened, she’d at least have 3 dragonriders plus the wealth/loyalty of Driftmark on her side. Daemon gets introduced as “made of lightness and darkness in equal parts” meanwhile Rhaenyra is written as one-sidedly incompetent and tyrannical (to the point that even Aegon outshines her sometimes, despite him also being astonishingly incompetent and psychotic). There’s no sense of balance to her, she does basically nothing but the wrong political moves, when she’s supposed to be the protagonist of this story.
Rhaenyra is written as one-sidedly incompetent and tyrannical (to the point that even Aegon outshines her sometimes, despite him also being astonishingly incompetent and psychotic.
You're right, it's very Daemon-forward. Don't get me wrong, I see his value for Rhaenyra, but if you're going to write about a woman...write about her and don't let her fall completely to the interpretations of the writers against her when everyone else gets more story than her in her own war. IF you're going to make it about her trying to reclaim her birthright, make her decline much more organic, the pressure on her mind must be more gradual and sensical, and not immediately make her fold under pressure or death of sons.
Because yes, mothers/women can think through their pain as Daemon did. Like in that other ask I likened your ask to, there are legends of women like that Sforza woman and Olga of Kiev putting their kids in safer but still active positions to participate in war so they them selves can then take over the war proceedings as unofficial head. Rhaenyra is the actual head of her side, with Daemon as her commander on the ground...so let her do something and colloborate! (By legend/history, Olga had her son throw a spear to signal the beginning of a war she wanted to wage, bc only the male monarch could to officially begin a war).
Yeah-ish, not every woman, "realistically", can do something like that but this is fiction and again, in the story about a woman trying to take back her power through a war...do not undermine that point of her trying to defend herself by making her not defend herself, only to drive how wrong it was to usurp her through how her kids live with trauma the rest of their lives and "make up" for it by having the Targs descend from her. There's a difference b/t a woman herself gaining wins/trying her best for herself and her propagating "winners" eventually. (Talking about Aegon V and Dany mostly).
It strengthens the impression of high femme-in-presenting people unable to do the "hard"/big man stuff. It solidifies the whole medieval "women can't do war, that's why they aren't leaders" even as you try to say that Rhaenyra's grief this, Rhaenyra's miscarriage that, bc you're clearly creating reasons for why she will sit out when you do have the option of not doing so, as a writer.
It'd have been more meaningful to have Rhaenyra flout that medieval binarism by at least doing logistics or tactical stuff: oh, she may not be a warrior, but she impacts their moves by reviewing the battlefield or thinking up ways to replenish supplies for their armies or ways to infiltrate this castle and that castle, etc.
And have her burn a few soldiers, come in and do a "save the day" in that battle without necessarily having her swing a sword. She already sort of does flout the binary a little by being a dragonriding princess, in the Andal ideology of masc vs femme---like Branwynhalfwitch of Twitter says, lean on that fact that she is a dragonrider!
Why all this hype about her being the youngest rider to have bonded with a dragon if you're not going to allow her to really use said dragon to reestablish her political power?
Out-of-text: Lately I've gotten more frustrated by a lot of this. Yeah...I know I said once or twice that we as the readers, can still draw significance in how Rhaenyra's supposed mediocrity vs Aegon's craziness shows ever more the point of how sexism makes a mid/good woman undeserving in the face of any mid/evil/incompetent man but GRRM not giving Rhaenyra at least one self-generated strategy plan is more than annoying. It helps to make more substantial this "rational man" v "irrational woman" trope we're all done with because it make women way too passive in a story that's supposed to be their own. She is still the protagonist, just a not-well written one.
A better female character GRRM wrote in F&B is either Rhaena (Dreamfyre's rider, daughter of Queen Alyssa Velaryon and Aenys I) and perhaps Queen Alyssa Velaryon. Maybe Alysanne. The best is Rhaena, though. I wrote at least two posts back to back defending her AND made a 3 "volume" maybe 20 video series on TikTok...this girl is my babe.
I resent GRRM for the circle of "reasoning" I'm about to put you through.
Like I mention below abt Aegon at Dragonstone, Aegon "outshines" her in more crazy than genius or rational-ness. He actually never acts rationally. Like at all. So ironically, we got them similar in that aspect. Aegon was also, unlike Daemon, separated his whole life from that. Aegon is not and was never known for being the swordsguy/warrior his brother was. He was mentally and physically unprepared for war.
I believe GRRM's intent was to have Rhaenyra--who actually ruled Dragonstone for years and sat at council with Viserys and his councilmen for years listening and maybe giving suggestions/learning-- still was so separated from the face of violence and death to those closest to her, that she "lost" her will to meet her odds for a time when her Luke died. Why not Visenya? She lost not one but two, ad so she breaks down. But that's so...flaccid(?) to me, too. It's like he's saying that she "lost" herself or some faith there. Paralyzed by the realities of war and choosing to go to war. So both her and Aegon had been living in the lap of aristocratic wealth it seems, but then it also seems like Rhaenrya had a leg up on Aegon by having been an active ruler on Dragonstone....but then he doesn't take advantage of that one element of potential for Rhaenyra, that one advantage...why? Perhaps someone better at this can explain, I'm tearing my hair out!
By contrast, Daemon had experience and lived in with the possibility of his loved ones dying AND went to war in the Stepstones for years.
The arguments for why Rhaenyra's "deserving" to rule being relegated to how incompetently she acts in the war--like I've said in other posts--gets easily confused for she must actively fight in battle to be considered a good leader...which is exactly the sort of medieval thinking that argued femininity is itself an anthesis to war-faring, militancy, and leading; and we modern Americans and other Western nations don't even practice for leaders. Our president doesn't go travel to fight beside the troops, not even in airplanes. Should they start? That's a good question.
Anyway, I get reluctant to question GRRM's thinking here just bc it's so...dumb?
At the same time, I also truly think that Rhaenyra's "arc" and decline into paranoia does have a potentially interesting journey and that it began with her rivalry with Alicent, from the age of at least 12 if not when Aegon is born which when she is 9-10. What effect would Alicent's turning the court against her and trying to mentally tear her down have on a child growing up expected to also have to be queen? How did that look and turn into how she interacted with the men in her life--father, uncle, brothers, husbands....and the women/girls in her retinue, how did she really feel about them and why? We know the women were loyal more or less. How susceptible did her childhood make her to manipulation from men, where/when/with who did she draw lines/why? It's that GRRM also didn't get into how Rhaenyra may have developed an ever-present insecurity alongside and motivating her need to stand up for herself that grew and worsened with the first few disasters of the war...BUT HE FUCKING WASTED IT!!!
Yes, this is a history book with unreliable sources determined to paint female ruler=bad for stability, but they'd be forced or compelled to at least write a few achievements or two. If you're so attached to this concept and refuse to divulge this girls' thoughts through a fucking letter or journal entry or excerpts of such or something of reflection and thoughts of the moment that reveal character like with Daemon and Otto's letters in the Rouge Prince AND one, just ONE tactic she made up on her own during the war...preferably two. I wouldn't remove her grief and the paranoia entirely. (And I'm not necessarily talking altruistic; Rhaenyra is not and never was that. Just bc you maybe a little clever, doesn't mean you're nice or compassionate.)...You may question, why not Rhaena BB then, instead of Rhaenyra? Well, tbh I much prefer if we somehow got this for every single Targ, attached to every history book, alongside how the maesters interpreted those writings so we got meta-on-meta. Its just richer that way, more engaging. And each character would have still given a voice...after all why describe Daemon's actions in such unrealistic detail if you're goin that far? But alas. Maybe it's a bad or even worse idea, but I'm spitballing.
(Ironically, a lot like how HotD does with some of their own changes or tweaks, like Helaena being a dreamer, which makes me want to compare the two)
Levied higher taxes on the peasants each day, turning them against her, especially when she planned lavish celebration to mark Joffrey as heir to the Iron Throne.
Every bullet point aside from the Nettles one are things I don't really begrudge Rhaenyra for, but I do question why GRRM really made her so sheltered(?) isn't the right word but he made her not try. And with each point, why he decided to give her so much at once but not come up with one good plan that soiled anyway? Or is that sexist? Again, she ruled Dragonstone and sat at council for years....where's all that acumen and experience now?
I honestly don't know what I would have done to replenish the treasury after my wicked half brother and his cronies stole it without putting taxes on people if I have been born high classed. I wouldn't execute people at such alarming rates and I think I'd have a smaller investiture ceremony for my "Joffrey". But I don't know what I'd do. Can't go to the Triarchy bec they just killed one of my kids (Jace), wouldn't trust me, and don't really exist as a unified until anymore, less interested in Westerosi affairs after that. The Hightower armies are in the Reach and parts of the riverlands preventing aid from coming in. Cregan Stark is not due until my own death. So I have but my own funds from Dragonstone and my allies' funds. And you can't demand they fork over $ or you risk losing more allies that way.
I suppose that was what GRRM's job was.
Some posts I wrote about this problem, Watsonianly, so don't come for me:
rereading F&B (again) makes me think what was Rhaenyra doing when she and Daemon were exiled/banished/confined from KL after they married. l
Basically, GRRM also maybe trying to make her one tragic flaw her need to self determing in the face of people acting/telling her she doesn't deserve power bc she is female.
Excerpt:
Doylistically, Rhaenyra's lack of "focus" (not to be that Try Guy) on what would happen after Viserys died can be attributed to GRRM just wanting her to be at a huge disadvantage at the beginning of the war, for that effect of off-kilterness and foreshadowing things never being the same again after 10 years of peace and presumed happiness with Daemon and her kids.
However, writing this error -- without providing any sort of other reason other than she made Dragonstone her home -- does still belies her intelligence, or at least sacrifices that for that effect described. Because she had 10 or so years to contemplate the aftermath of her father's death. *EDIT (8/21/23) *And perhaps he did that on purpose to highlight how misogyny doesn't care what kind of person a woman is so much as it tries to reshape her into an evil being needing destroying so she could become the reason why women, in general, shouldn't rule and "disturb" the "natural" order of male rule. *END OF EDIT*
Others:
Something that bothers me about DotD is that I feel GRRM doesn't help his case much if he means the reader to sympathize with Rhaenyra's cau
You probably misunderstood me.
You are right that from a purely objective view Rhaenyra should have been a Queen. But as a reader, I see a
If Rhaenyra wasn’t a Targaryen, people would have no problem calling her incompetent, stupid, paranoid, hating her for being spoiled, femini
Not everything can be written away with the “propaganda excuse”. Rhaenyra was as AWFUL as those books portray.
Someone was putting smallfol
This was an ask I got:
Before Rhaenyra, the memory of ruling women was a positive one for the Targaryen monarchy. Rhaenys and Visenya had s
Some other saving graces:
A) *[6/1/24]*
Rosby and Stokeworth was an issue that I don't think that most women in Rhaenyra's shoes (from this world) could have have avoided without losing important things. It's a thing that reflects what real life Queen regnants also had to sometimes deal with when persuading men who lead their various martial units, provided supplies, aided in coups [Catherine the Great], etc. Against the concerted efforts of several camps (men and the women who lead armies on behalf of close male relatives) to prevent a woman from claiming power in her own right, the same power-claiming woman needs more than herself and a few other relatives to assure she gets the throne/seat/privilege, etc. Corlys is a sign of that very thing--he twice tells Rhaenrya that if she were to go by Daemon's suggestions of giving Ulf & Hugh any dead noble's (rightfully executed or not) past holdings and titles, the other lords wouldn't likely stand for it:
("Rhaenyra Triumphant") -- First Incident (Not Rosby & Stokeworth)
("Rhaenyra Triumphant") -- Second Incident (Rosby & Stokeworth)
Corlys held her naval support. And while yes for the sake pf setting a precedent of girls becoming lady regnants of houses or being considered as possible, more viable heirs, Rhaenyra ALSO has to measure if she can keep those supporting her to destroy the obstacles in her way so she can ascend and set that prime precedent of female rule. She can't do that if she doesn't win.
If she chose to have these girls become the ladies of their houses, it could have alienated some of the lords she needed to stick with her and support her during an ongoing war. With Daeron-the Hightowers and their army doing well against their own soldiers outside of the city. And she denied Ulf and Hugh the Baratheon/Lannister holdings (correctly) in the next black council when they deliberated how to deal with her brothers, Alicent & Helaena, and those who helped the greens usurp her. She measured the high risks and decided it was way too big in lieu of her other circumstances. (We don't get how she herself felt about it, bc no letters, journal entries, self-reminders, no notes...)
The bulk of her argument for being queen was that the past King/monarch chose her, not that her womanness made her a needed ruler. This is our/the reader's argument. What about the person who must do the actual thing of becoming the precedent, though? There are still material steps to be made towards that. While I would love to see a woman choose to take on that risk, I understand it as the risk it is, what world she grew up in, her limitations, etc.
As Rhaena the Black Bride/Dreamfyre's rider could have been much "nicer" to her kids, she wasn't because of extentuating circumstances--where her own family isolated her despite how they essentially made sure she herself couldn't ascend, how she already proved her loyalties, how she was abandoned by her mother, and how she endured Maegor raping her. Rhaena, who also faced patriarchal violence and is blamed for not "rising above it" by fans. Rhaena is better written--her psychological distress much more comes across as organic bc: the distress does that stop her from seeking and achieving revenge against Androw Farman and even Maegor in various ways and levels and it doesn't or stop her from actively trying and sometimes succeeding in making her and her kids' situations better--but this one element of being trapped in the world you are born into with limited options holds true for Rhaenyura. At least with Rosby/Stokeworth and how she intended to deal with her brothers/their supporters.
And the pressure, again, of the stolen treasury, threat of her brothers still out there, two sons dead violently and her unable to bury either of them. Everything of this happening all at once...I maintain that it would have raised more faith if GRRM made her do the Dragonseed bit herself or more events where she took the lead, but that doesn't mean that since she is the final decision maker that we/GRRM should totally erase how this would cause more of a mental toll on her versus Daemon or Corlys. It's just that he refused to write more events showcasing Rhaneyra's getting back into the "game", so to speak. To show any trace of the clued education and resilience SOONER and MORE OFTEN before Jace dies. Those things that he himself clued us in on from the pre-war era, in favor of letting his male characters shine.
Still, Rosby and Stokeworth was an actually difficult conundrum of a rock and a hard place.
*[6/1/24], END*
B)
and he might still be alive!
That's more legend/fandom wishful thinking. He's definitely not alive. But yeah, he's male and an active one in the war so he gets a legend.
Why don't Visenya, Rhaenya and Alysanne all get "legends" of their own? Because Visenya and Rhaena conquered Westeros w/Aegon while acting as pseudo-Queen Regents/Regnants, apssing laws in the realm they constructed. Instead of just being his consorts. As his consort, Jaehaerys I allowed Alysanne to give suggestions and critiques, but she never actually made or passed or enforced laws; while without her many laws wouldn't have been made or they wouldn't have been abolished, she is also still Jaehaerys' consort without any "hard" political power required to directly change structures in Westeros without having to persuade Jaehaerys to do so. It's part of the decline of female non-militant autonomy and direct authority (which came with the Targ assimilation into the comparatively more violent, abusive, and restrictive Andal patriarchy) that was beginning to rise again with Rhaenrya becoming heir and given that male-designated power...until she's usurped.
C)
even Aegon managed that in getting Dragonstone to defect
However, anon, Aegon actually didn't accomplish the Dragonstone thing. There is no indication that he orchestrated or planned in detail how to take Dragonstone. That was Larys and the men who actually took it for Aegon while he sat up in the cliffs of Dragonstone. ("Rhaenyra Overthrown"):
And the only other moment where one could say he displayed some leadership--Rook's Rest--when he decided to fight on dragonback, it was a terrible plan he ended up flamebroiled, which shows how Rhaenyra was better staying out of the battle not already being battle trained herself. Again, we have no indication that Aegon was much of a warrior, like how Viserys was not and Daemon was. Because he rushed too much and wanted to hammer his opponents out of aggreived impatience, partially due to his son getting killed and more so because his ego needed him to show how he can beat the other side and annihilate them. He loses his temper several times at Otto until he dismisses him for Cole's more aggressive approach ("The Red Dragon and the Gold"):
D)
Caraxes is an “old, fast, clever dragon” who helps win Harrenhal without a fight and kill Vhagar, while Syrax is a lazy dragon who mainly exists to get Joffrey killed and then die in the dragonpit (even Sunfyre is better than her, essentially coming to Aegon’s rescue)
Some theorize that Syrax actually shows what happens when you domesticate your dragons or force them into enclosed spaces for long periods of time. But this sentence and other indications that. Plot-wise, it certainly looks like Syrax is completely useless and yet ("The Blacks and the Greens"):
“That makes four dragons of fighting size,” said Rhaenys. Queen Helaena’s twins had their own dragons too, but no more than hatchlings; the usurper’s youngest son, Maelor, was possessed only of an egg.
Against that, Prince Daemon had Caraxes and Princess Rhaenyra Syrax, both huge and formidable beasts.
AND
Where's she planned to be a part of at least the KL takeover and ambush if not be the last point of a line of dragons bc the monarch must always be protected...but GRRM makes it so Rhaenyra hangs back for some woman-specific physical reason or other: recovery from miscarriage AND grief or just her anxiety over her sons' deaths.
And Syrax lays many, many eggs that are stored for future Targs--more than other female dragons have been known to. I wouldn't call her completely "useless", it's that she wasn't used for war -- against, that maternal element that feels insufficient for wartime, at least as the only thing she's doing for the blacks.
("A Question of Succession"):
AND
("The Blacks and the Greens")
On the one hand, yay, more dragons and the symbolism of fertility and women being the center of Targaryen magic and prosperity and Rhaenyra is very happy to birth her final two boys and she wanted her Visenya. All definite heirs to the dynasty...
On the other, it seems as if GRRM is also maintaining a binary between female reproductive labor vs masculinized military labor (not just swordwork but tactical, strategy, logistics, etc.). Canon!Rhaenyra is what I've called "high-femme" in presentation and lack of knowledge of how to confront through arms (swords, bow-and-arrow, basically anything physical and war-related). I've also often said that Rhaenyra is not and never will be Daenerys Stormborn, who has many gender subversions without being very "tomboy". Like Arya (no, bk Arya is actually interested in "femme" stuff, it's that she's teased and discouraged bc she doesn't act "ladylike" in the Westerosi paradigm of aristocratic femininity). She doesn't have the same sort of background nor the compassion as either of these two, but does have the backbone to not succumb to other's calls for her to give up something they do not think she deserves due to her gender--in the beginning of her life, events before Lucerys' death, and then when she gets to KL onwards. Daenerys is way more complex and interesting, but if anything this is the only thing I can think of that these two women share and it's very important still. (Even though Dany's not a woman-woman.)
And it presents the question of why GRRM didn't allow Rhaenyra to do both and present more to do with her but make her just fail because of very unlucky shit other than the KL stuff? Like her make her strategic, but luck or the green counteract and got the better of her...because it is a fact that she has to die in some way. Not only that, she has to die/lose partly by her own hand, which she does by not getting a handle on the paranoia that's been accruing since childhood (yes) and relying on her class to carry her in a way where it opposes Dany and Nettles' ingenuity and understanding of dragon bonding. But again, that sort of mania, level of loss of senses, and how its used in the story to disable her from participating in some way in her own cause is...crazy and a cheap and sexist shot to make her fall by her own hand. Making her lose all her sons within a short time is dramatic and expressive of the horror of this particular war...you couldn't do that by giving more to your female protagonist things to do as you kill off her kids?!
I'm actually fine that Rhaenyra doesn't directly participate in war-faring as Visenya or Rhaenys or how Daenerys inevitably will--not every person is a warrior or can be, to enact great positive change. Like Daeron II & Alysanne (Alysanne may or may not be a good example bc she may have been discouraged from using Silverwing for that, but we don't see her confronted with this possibility behind closed doors, so...). Not everyone can/should be a swordsperson, archer, etc. What happens when you were not trained in these things, should you be considered "useless"? Or what if you simply weren't good at it?
*[6/22/24]* But she could OR she could have in strategy or logistics or something. But it's like because she doesn't have those of her body with her anymore, her mind must go as well? It's not even that she became "crazy" at the very end so much as she became paranoid and I'm sure that the impression of her going "crazy" was manufactured subtly by Gyldayn...but GRRM couldn't have given Rhaenrya more of a material reason to suspect those around her and not diffrentiate Ulf/Hugh from Addam/Alyn Velaryon/Nettles?! Bc in our eyes and observations, the Velaryons and Nettles' loyalties are undoubtable and she also had some moments of quiet to try to gather herself while at KL to even be a part of many councils and make decisions she had the capacity to think..., so why does Rhaenyra so easily suspect them even with the hanging deaths of her kids over her head? This is still a fictional piece of work; GRRM had options and we know he's creative enough. How this is all written without even a rumor of how Rhaenyra reasoned more Dragonseeds would betray her, unless this is just lost to history AND it is Gyldayn/other maesters before him doing dirty work?
Perhaps this is another reason why I really don't mind a little rewrite here for Rhaenyra, as long as it's written well and I don't trust these writers of HotD for a sec to provide a nonsexist reason for her turning on the Dragonseeds. *[6/22/24], END*
And then there's the definition of a warrior to be discussed: Rhaenys the Conqueror was still war-faring on Meraxes, Meraxes was her war device as much as Vhagar and Balerion were for the sword-wielding other two. It is Andal parameters of "warrior" that has labeled Rhaenys as not one even as she, on a dragon, burnt people at the Field of Fire. Do we not consider Air Force to be "warriors"--well Americans and those in the military have a weird thing about Air Force vs Marines vs yada yada, but again that might (probably) be patriarchy at work. Either way, in this case, yes Rhaenyra could have at least done the Rhaenys thing and stayed on Syrax burning people alive. So I fine with this happening on HotD as well. There's interesting commentary to come from that that GRRM refused to indulge.
Honestly, I don't know. To me it has to do with what the former brideoffires/Twitter's danylanzhou has said about Nettles and Dany, how Rhaenrya did not have what they describe and how GRRM actually went way too hard in the paint for that. but that's as much as I can say.
Do any if these graces make her a more active OR complex/interesting character to read as we are given? Not really. Again, not without PoV chapters or at the very least letter or journals or something(s) she wrote for reflection if she was ever interested in that, IF GRRM just refused to just give her more stuff to do. It's as disappointing as when some Shakespeare fans describe their extreme disappointment with how Merchant of Venice contradicts his other play's wittier and more...compassionate(?) tend to be.
I also still don't like and will never like HotD's Rhaenyra bc they also simply have not developed her with the money they had before the strikes. And now with this DV shit, I definitely will never like the writing for her...because how the fuck is she so determined but performs no domestic power against Daemon after ruling Dragonstone for years?!!! How is this "better" and not more sexist than canon?! [@rhaenin-time's post HERE]
So yeah, in this way, HotD is just following GRRM's lead...while not at the same time.
I’ve said before that Daemon’s rejection of his marriage to Rhea Royce was an act of protest — and I still stand by that. But that doesn’t mean he wasn’t cruel about it. His resistance to the match was loud, scornful, and done at Rhea’s expense. His protest may have been rooted in a lack of consent, but it also became a performance of dominance, using humiliation to distance himself from a marriage he didn’t want.
Daemon’s protest did damage his reputation, but the consequences were somehow filtered through the lens of male privilege. He lost political standing in the Vale and any claim to Runestone. He was mocked and briefly banished from court — not for his treatment of Rhea, but for other provocations. Yet he returned, took high offices, and led military campaigns. His setbacks were real, but his political legitimacy remained intact.
Rhaenyra, by contrast, had far less room to maneuver. As the declared heir, she should have been second only to her father in power — yet when it came to marriage and succession, she was treated not as a sovereign, but as a vessel. Viserys himself had rejected a politically advantageous match with Laena in favor of marrying Alicent. Yet he later demanded that Rhaenyra do what he would not: marry Laenor to heal the very rift he had created. He went as far as threatening her position — suggesting her younger half-brother could replace her as heir. Autonomy was a privilege reserved for men. Viserys exercised autonomy, and Rhaenyra was expected to surrender hers.
Daemon flouted his marriage and openly took a mistress...and while he faced temporary disgrace, it carried little lasting consequence. He lost no real power, was later welcomed back to court, and freely pursued marriages of his own choosing. Still, his protest came at another woman’s expense. Rhaenyra, meanwhile, was expected to uphold the appearance of duty without deviation. Unlike Daemon, Rhaenyra could not afford open rebellion. She maintained the appearance of compliance while subverting it — fulfilling her duty but doing so on her own terms. Her children would draw their legitimacy through her, not the man Viserys chose for her bed. Her affair with Harwin was, in that sense, not a rejection of duty — but a redefinition of it. She fulfilled the expectation of motherhood, but subverted the idea that patriarchal consent was required.
If Daemon said “no” loudly, Rhaenyra's defiance was quiet but no less intentional; still she was punished for exercising her autonomy. Viserys and Daemon were never held accountable in a way that limited their power or denied them other opportunities. Rhaenyra was punished continuously. That’s what makes the double standard so glaring next to Rhaenyra.
Anon responds to this post.
And you are positively correct here as well. Gender plays too well into what autonomy one could practice and get away with in Westeros as well as here and now, even in this so-called "digital age". Personally, I can see why Rhaewin's ship them from that point of Rhaenyra "redefining" the way she performs duty while still maintaining her position because it creates that distance from those male actors like Viserys who are either actively or suppressing her being able to openly defy or do as she wants/needs. The distance from such potently patriarchal compulsions and actors, as Harwin really was sacrificing his life for her, regardless that I don't know what else he was like and therefore I can't really swoon over him as much. That and of course all else I already said about that.
Rhaenyra already tried to be openly defiant, too, and Viserys point blank threatened her that she'd lose her position if she didn't marry Laenor. Viserys has at least 2 male heirs to replace her by that point. It tracks. I often think about the kind of emotional wound that would give her, her at 15-16ish confronting this only to be hit square with the prospect of her father finally placing her brothers before her not only as his heir but with that, inevitably, their very being's value above hers. Realizing she'd have to repress herself in ways Daemon would never really get to or have to.
I really like how this anon (which I suspect is the same anon as this one) breaks down Harwin's position:
In a way, Harwin too demonstrated a quiet form of devotion. As heir to Harrenhal, he was expected to marry and secure a political alliance, yet he never did. Instead, both in the book and the show, he remained devoted to Princess Rhaenyra, maintaining a visible presence in her household and staying loyal to her until his death. His decision to remain unmarried, despite the expectations, reflects a private, principled form of commitment. He did not openly challenge the political order, but he also refused to participate in its fiction. He chose to stay, to love, and to serve, without recognition, reward, or protection. Where Bonifer removed himself from court entirely, Harwin remained close, quietly accepting the risks of forbidden proximity. He just loved Rhaenyra.
Yes I can see why people would ship Harwin with her. That simple, quiet devotion is its own pleasure and certainty and mode of safety. I have actually always seen it bc it was very obvious, but it's good that this was broken down the way it was.
