#dappercat saga

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I hope whatever character growth nora goes through in volume 10 and beyond keeps the class consciousness aspect of her character,

Admittedly I kinda doubt classism can play a role in the vacuo arc but of any of those themes from the atlas arc carry over I hope to see her be a part of it, maybe we can at least see her helping out Robyn

And eventually once all the Salem stuff is dealt with she can become a huntress feared by mistrali oligarchs far and wide!

I have a feeling between Weiss and Nora addressing the pain of their history and figuring out what it means to move forward, there will be plenty of depth for some classism allegory. I wouldn't count on it becoming a central theme or anything, since we are moving toward the world becoming more and more united in the fight against Salem.

I am fully expecting some KFP 'your story may not have a happy beginning, but that doesn't make you who you are - it is the rest of your story' message for Nora's arc, almost in the same vein as Ruby in v9 about finding the resolve within - that you are already enough.

I haven't the slightest idea who Nora will explore her 'finding herself' arc with. Could be Robyn, carry on that 'Nora becomes a Happy Huntress' theory that I enjoyed in v7, but I was also thinking about Emerald! Heck - it could even be a book or brand new character!

I have a different endgame in theory for Nora. But those headcanons are admittedly tied up in related Lie Ren endgames so...

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Willow is like the embodiment of this exchange

Villain: oh please, you wouldn’t hurt a fly

Hero: of course not, a fly is an innocent creature that would never knowingly harm anyone, you however I will maim

Lol, I might need to send that quote to an incorrect-quote blog I know.

It's very accurate to her character

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I wish Jacques had lived long enough to know his “good son” immediately abandoned him the first chance he got,

I don’t like how the phrasing of this question implies that he still dies - just with the added knife twist that his son turned his back on him. I’m not a fan of the villains suffering needlessly and excessively - just let the man be dead.

Diving into the speculative side, I can imagine a scenario in which Jacques discovers this. In a world where Jimmy didn’t bomb the rescue SDC ships and everything went to plan that is. The event was televised and the soldiers in cell block have the TV on. They are watching when you hear Jacques go ‘What?! I didn’t authorize this! Who is commanding my ships?” At that same moment, the announcer reports that the evacuation order came from Schnee Manor, from the acting head of the SDC; Whitley Schnee.

Jacques starts sputtering and raving about how he should have busted him out first, how he’s given him everything he ever wanted, how incredibly unfair it is, yada yada yada.

The punchline would be the hard-light cells having a mute button, which the soldiers press and continue to watch the TV while he screams silently in the background.

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Sorry if this topic is getting played out but, what do you think weiss’ reasoning for sparing Jacques was?

It seems like they’re going for the “be the bigger person and show mercy” angle which I’m personally kind of against, even if it is a major theme in the end of “the immortal hulk” they at the very least don’t treat it as the objectively right answer, or at least acknowledge that not showing mercy to an enemy doesn’t make you inherently bad

Tho personally my preferred interpretation is like what wesly said in the princess bride “I can think of no greater punishment then letting him live with his cowardice”

Weiss' job as a Huntress is to protect the people of the world from Salem's devastation. RWBY's goal was so save as many lives as possible from the imminent demise of Atlas, and like it or not - that includes Jacques. Weiss' doesn't let her morals be compromised just because she thinks that one person or one circumstance is an exception. She didn't change her stance on Faunus rights to "Well Blake is a good one, but screw the rest" - in the same manner she didn't change her opinion on saving Atlas to "We gotta save everyone except my Dad because fuck him". She is more mature than that.

I don't think it's written to be a moral message, considering the scene played out in which Winter delivers this news to Jacques, with her implying her opinion differs. The scene gives the impression of Winter saying "If it were up to me, I'd leave you on this crashing rock", but it's also not presented as a lesser opinion. The reveal that Weiss gave the order to move him to safety is only a gotcha moment because Winter makes it clear that it wasn't her call - that she might not have gone back for him if not for the youngest daughter he's disowned. It gives him a quiet 'oh shit' moment to close the scene on.

I also enjoy the Princess Bride, and can agree with an interpretation following said quote's logic.

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It’s ironic how ironwood fanboys claim yang and Blake “betrayed” ironwood when they spent their entire conversation with Robyn making excuses for his he treated mantle lol,

Really telling Ruby’s helped ironwood more then it helped mantle

While I appreciate the dunk on Ironwood apologists, I don’t like the implication this conversation is going to turn into another “RWBY doesn’t care about Mantle” argument. I’m afraid you will have to be content with the knowledge that Ironwood was their boss for v7 while they were still attempting to navigate Atlesian politics, and no one wanted to make Ironwood mad. You wouldn’t like him when he’s mad.

I wouldn’t call it excuses for Ironwood - Yang’s whole conversation with Blake was about telling the truth because people deserve to know what they are stepping into (hence her bitterness toward Oz’s secrets). Yang following Ruby’s lead of telling some truths, but of keeping the highly sensitive information close to your chest.

Robyn was operating under the misunderstanding that Ironwood actively strong-arming Mantle without reason. For all she knew - the Amity project out at the dust mines was another weapons/military secret. They shared with Robyn information that would paint Ironwood in a better light (he’s trying to restore communication) so that they can hopefully finish the project before Salem’s goons caught wind of what they are trying to do. They knew Robyn was doing something that wasn’t evil - she wasn’t the enemy Jimmy was making her out to be - and she would be able to understand why this was really happening.

“We just need a little more time” isn’t saying “Ironwood is the best forever - Mantle can suck it”. It’s saying “We don’t want to arrest you but we’d also appreciate it if you stopped attacking our trucks so that we can finish the CCT faster and help everyone.”

Obviously the show didn’t have time to elaborate on what Robyn did after that conversation - but the fact that she wasn’t arrested allowed her to be in the council room when everything went down in the v7 finale.

If anything it makes Ironwood more unreasonable for accusing them of betrayal - because they helped Robyn see that there was some goodness to his actions, and let her escape - which made their team up later in the volume go more smoothly. They laid out all the pieces for Ironwood and Robyn to reconcile on even ground and actually help the citizens of Mantle in the Out in the Open.

But immediately after that team up, he goes right back to ‘Robyn was our enemy and you weren’t loyal to me’. They only ‘betrayed’ Ironwood in the sense that they didn’t follow orders, they dared to try diplomacy instead of force, ooh so heinous! It worked out in the end, didn’t it? To quote Weiss: ‘None of that matters now!’

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I gotta say, it feels like odalia’s defeat was more satisfying then Jacques, even tho Odalia did the thing I didn’t want Jacques to do in the beginning by working for the big destroy the world bad guy

Maybe because we got to see her entire family stand up,to her together? Maybe because we know amity 100% tried to punch her in the face? Or maybe it’s because they didn’t show a worker with a blight industries brand on the fuckin face

Then again maybe it’s just personal preference, I honestly can’t pin down a specific reason, hopefully we do get to see odalia actually get punched in the face lol

Your opinion is your own man, but don't think I don't see what you are doing.  Using TOH as a prop to complain about RWBY is still complaining about RWBY. I think the matter of ‘satisfactory’ comes down to the pacing of these two shows, which couldn’t be more night and day.

I, for one, really enjoyed the Ace-Attorney aspect to taking down Jacques - he's too crafty to get caught red handed, so we gotta collect evidence from a few too many coincidences to be reasonable, and find that one last piece from an unlikely source to turn it all around in the 11th hour. That kind of mystery wouldn't work in the Blight's case, since they were never hiding their allegiance to the emperor, so I don't think it's quite fair to compare them.

Odalia's defeat is satisfying because the show hammered in how little she cares about her children's desires and works to sabotage them, where Jacques is more cold and detached. Both have that love-to-hate energy but Odalia really earns her defeat in the episode she is brought down by breaking the Tamagatchi and insulting Amity’s girlfriend - really driving the hammer home how awful she is. The full extent of Jacques’ crimes are not on such a display in the same episode where he is defeated, which might be why it feels hollow to you. Of course his other crimes matter, but the crime that is most essential in that moment is the one they are going to focus on.*

TOH has the “benefit” of cramming this narrative beat into one episode (the resolution of Odalia’s abuse coming from Alador standing up for his kids) where RWBY stretched this similar arc over two episodes (Mama Schnee giving Weiss the conclusive evidence that Weiss presents at the start of the next episode).

There is also something to be said about how Odalia would be able to hold her own in a fight but Jacques wouldn't, so narratively, it makes more sense for an argument to escalate into a fight compared to Jacques who would just... die... if his daughter took a swing at him.

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* - If RWBY wanted to hammer in Jacques’ dickishness in the same capacity - it would have his reaction to the heat being off in Mantle as uninterested or malicious. The way Odalia’s reaction to the draining spell was ‘I mean, I’M gonna benefit from it so why fight it?’ This, however, would make his character a little more cartoon-mustache-twirling evil and less IRL-millionaire-with-an-ego evil - and the tone for RWBY tends to lean toward the latter. The tone and pacing of the two shows, despite their similarities, are significant.

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Onto your next ask to pair with your ‘hope Odalia gets punched lol’ comment:

“I wonder of [Odalia] will get incinerated like Jacques, I’m not sure this kids show’ll go there tho lol”

I think Odalia vanishing into the dust cloud is a fine enough conclusion, we know she has a Coven sigil so it’s possible she makes an appearance when the Draining Spell is conjured, but she has no more control over her family and the only foreseeable punishment in her future is some divorce papers.

The show has the capacity, but I think wishing for the brutal death of a parental figure, even an abusive one, is a step too far. You really seem to have a fixation on ‘getting what you deserve’ involving relentless violence.

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I know that king being a Titan brings up a tone of possibilities, him producing more titans blood for a portal,

But he’s also the key to breaking belos’ religious indoctrination of the boiling isles,

He claims to speak to the Titan? Well the Titan has an heir to the title, and he would like to have words,

Quite frankly I’m also scared what king will do with the kind of reality warping capabilities potentially at his disposal down the line,

And a sad thought is he’ll outlive the owl fam by potentially billions of years,

The Titan is what gives the entire Boiling Isles' it's shape and magic and ability to exist, so just because King is a Titan doesn't mean that his heritage would makes all the the residents' beliefs transferable to him. The Titan is the Isles: It's body is the ground and trees and magic of this land.

I highly doubt that the show has enough time left to provide a thorough breakdown of how the Boiling Isles unlearned all of Belos' religious propaganda. Call me lazy, but I think that Belos' defeat will also quell the fanaticism surrounding the 'Titan's will' - considering everyone will see the damage he inflicts in the name of the Titan's plan on the Day of Unity. And those that still want to believe in the Titan can't talk to it like Belos could, and they'd have to carry on in life doing what they think is best.

In a comedic sense tho, I would love to see King say something to the tune of "Well, this Titan says that's bullshit."

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My speculation for King's powers as they relate to inter-dimensional travel is that King will be the reason why Luz will be able to return home and also how she'll be able to come back to the Isles. I don't think King will unlock any other latent Titan powers this late in the game outside of resolving Luz' arc. (The conflict might also be a focus of one of the final episodes, since King doesn't want to see her leave and holds the last key that would let her go. Then again, it might not, because if King can visit Luz whenever he wants then he can give her a happily ever where she can enjoy both worlds.)

I think King would use such warping powers (assuming space/time-distortion also works short-distance) for fun and pranks, because he's a good kid with a strong mischievous streak.

King could make his own Time Pools. Now that's an interesting thought.

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And yes, he will likely outlive his family because titans have a long lifespan (probably not on the order of billions, more likely 100k to millions). But King seems like a kind soul whose younger years would have shaped his worldview to a point in which his enormous adult Titan size still loves and appreciates the little mortals; they were the ones who raised him and loved him.

King may go on to be the most powerful demon in the world, feared and beloved by all, but I like to imagine he would be a benevolent force. The last Titan - the protector of witches and demons in a world long past the days of Belos' rule. A Titan that once longed for conquest and power, but knows that people are good and kind and just as stubborn as he was.

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I gotta say I think I’m really excited for arrowfell just for the prospect of seeing one or several atlesian tycoons get their asses kicked,

Don't get me wrong, I'm more than positive that is gonna be part the plot, and I'm excited for that element too, but it's more of a 'cool! bonus lore and worldbuilding!' feature than a selling point for me. "Just for the prospect of" seems to imply that it's the only thing about the game that gets you hyped.

I'M Excited for the gameplay, the new grimm, the Expanded Atlas Lore (TM), the never-before-seen animated cutscenes, the hidden secrets and collectables, and the speed-running scene that seems to follow most Metroidvania titles shortly after launch.

But, hey, I know your brand. It does not surprise me that 'rich jerks getting just deserts' is at the top of your list.

I'm hyped for this game to expand on those parts of the Atlas arc you were critical of, so that we can agree peacefully that the game expanded on Atlesian elements that were sadly lacking in v7 due to time restraints, and hopefully lay this highly specific criticism to rest.