#digimon rant

[scrubf1re]

I think I’ve figured out the reason why I prefer Meiko’s Meicoomon over Wallace/Willis’ Lopmon.

If you’ve been in the digimon fandom long enough you’ve probably seen/hear comparisons between Wallace/Willis’ Lopmon from Hurricane Touchdown and Meiko’s Meicoomon from tri.

The similarities between both of them that plenty of digimon fans have pointed out are that they are both partner digimon with uncontrollable evolved/digivolved (or in Meicoomon’s case mutated) forms with their respective human partners going through character arcs about realising that for as much as they love their partner digimon and how much it pains them to do so, they’re too dangerous to let live so they end up letting them die to save everyone and put them out of their misery (I have seen some people compare Meicoomon to Yujin's Offmon but I feel Offmon is more comparable to Ryo’s Monodramon and I’ve already made a rant comparing those two). Keep in mind that for this comparison I’m only looking at the partner digimon themselves and not their human companions since I actually like both Wallace/Willis and Meiko which unfortunately I cannot say the same for the partner digimon and I’m going to go over where I felt Meiko’s Meicoomon succeeded where Wallace/Willis’ Lopmon failed. And the reasons are actually a lot more simple than you’d think. My biggest problem with Lopmon and by extension Hurricane Touchdown as a whole is how little character and personality Lopmon has outside of the fact that he’s a partner digimon under the effects of a virus and having undergone a dark evolution/digivolution which can be attributed to how little screentime Lopmon’s personality outside of his dark evolution/digivolution. That aspect of Lopmon’s character only gets two scenes dedicated which is strange given that Lopmon’s dark evolutions/digivolutions get plenty of screen time which can be attributed to bad pacing on Hurricane Touchdown's part. I do think it’s a little weird how I seem to be the only person who has this complaint with Lopmon that I know of.

First is the flashback involving Wallace/Willis, Terriermon and Lopmon’s backstory and how he turned into Wendimon/Wendigomon.

And the second being before he dies and... that’s all we get to see of what Lopmon’s character is like outside of his dark evolutions/digivolutions. The only two personality traits I could get from both of these scenes are that he’s childlike and playful which doesn’t even stand out amongst the other partner digimon in the adventure continuity since plenty of other partner digimon have shown traits of being childlike and playful (as well as those two traits not even being their only character traits including Meicoomon). I’m a firm believer in the idea that there is a huge difference between a character being simple (for example Jo/Joe’s Gomamon comes to mind as while being undeniably simple, as he’s rather brash, confident and loud to contrast his partner) and a character being underwritten (I’ve already criticised Ryo’s Monodramon for more or less the same thing before) and unfortunately in a story where we are supposed to feel sad when Lopmon dies I don’t think it’s an unreasonable thing to criticise said story if the character dying doesn’t have much character to begin with.

In comparison Meicoomon has plenty of scenes where we get to see what her character is like outside of the fact that she’s the source of the infection and how her mutations have much more violent personalities. The first 20 minutes of part 2 of tri being a great example of this since even when we limit ourselves to just the first quarter of determination since we see multiple different traits of Meicoomon such as her having a tendency to wonder off on her own, being easily scared, playful, being rather dependent on Meiko and naive despite being an adult/champion level. These aren’t even the only times we get to see the traits as they are more consistent than you’d think since we actually do see them again in later points in tri including flashbacks.

I don’t think it takes a genius to see where I’m coming from since a lot of the points I made in Meicoomon’s favour can basically be attributed to the fact that Hurricane Touchdown is only a single movie whereas tri is 6 OVAs (or 26 episodes if you’re watching it on a streaming service like crunchyroll and other examples that I don’t feel like typing down). I feel like another contributor is the fact that when we first see Lopmon in Hurricane Touchdown he’s already dark evolved/digivolved into Wendimon/Wendigomon whereas when we first see Meicoomon in tri it’s kept a mystery as to what her importance to the plot is which is why she gets so much more screentime dedicated to establishing what her character is like compared to Lopmon who only gets a single flashback and 1 scene afterwards.

Because of this, it’s way easier to get sad over Meicoomon’s death since we actually get a decent amount of screen time to what her personality and character is like outside of the infection (which is still a simple character mind you, but being a simple character is not the same as being badly and/or underwritten).

A point I have seen some people made in Lopmon’s favour in comparison to Meicoomon that I don’t really seem to get is that when Lopmon dies he briefly becomes Cherubimon (Virtue) before disappearing whereas Meicoomon doesn’t briefly become Rasielmon when she dies. The reason I don’t get this criticism towards Meicoomon is that the people I’ve seen make this complaint claim that her not becoming Rasielmon means she wasn’t purified when she died even though Meicoomon appearing in her regular non mutated self could also be interpreted as her being purified since that’s what Meicoomon is like when she’s not a rampaging mutated digimon. Gonna be honest this complaint feels more like an excuse to complain about a lesser known digimon not getting their anime debut in a scene where if that did happen... you’d change absolutely nothing about the story other than Rasielmon waving goodbye to Meiko (a digimon Meiko’s never seen before mind you) instead of Meicoomon before disappearing. Honestly if Cherubimon (Vice) briefly turned back into Lopmon instead of Cherubimon (Virtue), you’d change absolutely nothing about Hurricane Touchdown’s plot since Cherubimon reverting back into Lopmon could still be interpreted as him being purified anyways. I dunno this complaint feels very surface level and difficult for me to agree with given the points I’ve made. Anyways TLDR: the reason why I feel Meiko’s Meicoomon is better written than Wallace/Willis’ Lopmon is that Lopmon is extremely underwritten outside of the fact that he’s a partner digimon under the effects of dark evolution/digivolution and that digimon’s personality and character outside of that has way too little screentime anyways whereas Meiko’s Meicoomon doesn’t have the same problems. I don’t really know what else to type here.

[confused-robot-cat]

In the final chapter of Digimon Adventure Tri, Homeostasis reveals that the real world can be rebooted just like the Digital World. Izzy, despite being the smartest person in the group, only thinks of how this would affect computers in the real world. The thing is, though, it is made explicit that not only would this affect the human's memories of Digimon, but it also describes how the world would "return to the quantum sea." The entire universe as we know it would turn to quantum foam and be rebuilt from scratch, like a second Big Bang.

And nobody's mind is blown by this in the movie.

Like, okay, rebooting the Digital World, alright, it's a "computer world," it's, it's easy not to think too deeply about it. But we're talking about an entity that exists beyond worlds who can, on a whim, revert all of reality as we know it to nothingness and rebuilt it from the ground up. This thing is a god. This is an actual, real god speaking to eight children about how it's going to start everything over again. And they're just like "oh no we'll forget our Digimon." Dudes, you're standing in the street with the only tangible proof anyone in history has ever had that there is at least one god with power over all creation. Fuck your fucking Digimon, react to that!

Also, nobody seems at all phased that their teacher died to save the lives of Tai, Davis, Ken, Cody, and Yolei. Tai feels no survivor's guilt? None of them miss the guy? Nobody seems to feel anything about that? We all talk about how weird it is that Kari and TK at least have no concern about the 02 kids going missing, but nobody ever mentions that Sora and Tai's homeroom teacher died.

Then there's Gennai!

When these kids met Gennai, they were lost in a very dangerous alternate world (there should be trauma there, why isn't there trauma?), and it was Gennai that guided them. He was an important figure in their lives. He even showed them how they came to be the Chosen Children and his role in that. So why, dear god why, does it not seem to affect them emotionally that Gennai has been corrupted by Yggdrasil? They accept him as their enemy and fight him, but they never stop to even think about trying to save him, to make him his true self again. They don't even question why he wasn't rebooted along with the Digimon. They just... Leave him to stay evil. Also the sexual assault of Sora. Again, this was a guiding figure in her life. A grandfather figure in a way. His presence used to bring them comfort and now he's been altered against his will and is exploiting them and acting so fucked up and... They don't seem to care that it's Gennai doing this. They hear he's been corrupted and that's all the explanation they need, suddenly it's fine, and they just have to fight him. Surely the fact this digital entity has a human face would have the psychological effect of making them hesitate just as much, if not more, as they did with Meicoomon?

So much goes unaddressed in Tri.

I really liked that Tai matured so much in these movies and was finally questioning the amount of damage they do when they host these massive monster fights in the middle of Tokyo. Yes they're trying to save people from "bad Digimon," but Greymon falling against a fucking building is dangerous. Tai is the first to recognise that, and the narrative - through Matt - sort of seems to punish him for it. But. I wanted more of that. I want to see the emotional effects of this stuff on the characters. Yeah, I don't want six movies of them moping around and reflecting and being all depressed and shit, but c'mon, they should be carrying some heavy fucking baggage by the end of all this. Instead, the conclusion to the whole six-part movie spectacular is Tai phoning Meiko and saying "hey we killed your Digimon but we're still going to let you be friends with us."

[linaa-vera]

OMG THIS EPISODE MY HEART ALMOST BEAT OUT OF MY CHEST

Spoilers of episode 24 of Digimon Adventure 2020, you have been warned.

I WAS ALREADY ON THE EDGE OF MY SEAT WHEN YAMATO AND GABUMON WHERE BEAT AND ALMOST DIED, AND THEN THIS HAPPENS??!?????!?!??!’1

I always thought if they are monster, and monsters are supposed to eat you then why it didn’t happen before, and of fucking course, IT HAPPENS AND I SCREAMED (my mom came to see me kadjska) I MEAN WTFF????????!?!?!?!?!?!? I’M SO HYPED GUYS YOU HAVE NO IDEA.

And can you imagine what Metalgreymon felt? his partner, his friend, GOT EATEN. I just can’t imagen what it must’ve felt.

(he is so mad...) so much that his mind has gone blank. (??) (sorry guys I’m not a good translator) 

He was so mad, that he evolved into Mugendramon and this guy meant bussiness, did you saw how powerful he is?!??!?!?! 

AND THEN TOKOMON GOT ENOUGH AND THIS HAPPENS....

IS THIS HOW THE EVOLUTIONS LOOK LIKE FROM OUTISDE????? IT’S AMAZINGGG. 

YOU GO TAKERU AND TOKOMON.

and then

HE GOES DEEP INSIDE MUGENDRAMON AS ANGEMON, and tells him to not let himself be blind by rage. to remember that someone, to not forget their bond... 

AND IT SHOW TAICHI WITH EACH HEARTBEAT, i was almost on tears.

AND DEEP BENEATH ALL THE RAGE, AGUMON WAS CRYING!  OMGGGGG KAJDKASJA I CAN’T MY POOR HEART. MY BABYYYYY

HE COMES OUT OF MUGENDRAMON BUT NOT AS AGUMON.

AS FUCKING WARGREYMON, you guys can imagine how much I was screaming at this point. HE CAN STILL HEAR TAICHI’S HEARTBEAT. AND HE KILLS DANDEVIMON BY PIERCING HIM TO FIND TAICHI WITHIN HIS BODY.

AND THEN.

LOOK AT HIM. The dark miasma is lifted from his body as well. 

After this both remain unconscious and their stomachs growling and Taichi seems to wake up? But we didn’t see it.

did I fogot to mention Patamon?????? LOOK AT HIM, LOOK AT HIS TINY FEET.

What really got me in the end, was that they went to Taichi and Agumon like Taichi wasn’t eaten at all. Like “HEY!, TAICHI!” and with no hurry at all, well Yamato and Gabumon can barely walk but still.

Then something starts to happen where they stand? I mean the ground? it starts to shake and I can imagine Yamato’s thoughts of “what now?” 

CAN THEY REST PLEASE?

And that’s it, I’M SO EXCITED FOR NEXT WEEK’S CHAPTER.

[junshin-mimi]

I’m about to watch Episode 3.... Why do I feel like I already know how it’s gonna go? ........Yeah.... EDIT: NEVERMIND! IT WAS GOOD. YAY!

[scrubf1re]

Meiko is (indirectly) responsible for Rosemon and Hououmon/Phoenixmon appearing in tri.

If you really think about it, the scenes in which Meiko cheers Mimi up by wearing the Daters cheerleader outfit in part 2 of tri and the scene where Meiko repeats the words Sora taught her in part 3 back to her in part 4 are both pretty big important scenes for Mimi and Sora's character arcs in tri since both scenes involve Meiko being supportive to the girls that causes major changes in attitude that lead to them fulfilling the evolution/digivolution prophecy thus making Meiko indirectly responsible for Rosemon (partially since Jo indirectly contributed as well but for different reasons but this rant is mostly about Meiko) and Hououmon/Phoenixmon appearing in tri.

Keep in mind that these scenes aren't just minor bits of filler that only exist to pad out run time, they are major important scenes for Sora and Mimi's characters in tri so cutting them out changes way more of the plot than you'd think. There are 2 criticisms I've seen towards Meiko that I feel are rather flawed (they're not the only flawed criticisms towards Meiko and by extension tri but I'm only going to focus on these 2 critiques and why I can't bring myself to agree with either of them no matter how much time passes) is that Meiko "does nothing" (even though contributing to other characters development is still technically contributing to the story in some way) and that when you do bring up the scenes where Meiko is supporting Sora and Mimi those same people would usually move the goalpost by claiming that those scenes don't count by claiming that "other characters could've done the same thing" (which kinda contradicts the first criticism towards Meiko if you really think about it since that critique rellies on admitting that Meiko did contribute to the story in some way). The reason I feel the latter critique doesn't work is because it rellies too much on whether other characters could have filled the same roles in those scenes and no where near enough on whether those other characters would've been just as if not more narratively effective to use for those scenes than Meiko.

Especially when you take how much screentime in part 2 is dedicated to Mimi and Meiko's friendship which I think is part of the reason why Meiko wearing the outfit was as effective as it was. Another reason why I feel that scene in particular worked was that Meiko was a new character (at the time, the first part of tri is nearly a decade old as of making this rant... god I feel old) who hasn't been friends with Mimi anywhere near as long as Sora and Hikari/Kari have been since Sora and/or Hikari/Kari wearing the outfits, while it still probably could've worked probably wouldn't be as narratively effective since both have been friends with Mimi for years whereas Meiko' being's social awkwardness and modesty is meant to showcase her breaking out of her shell because of Mimi... for the most part, she still acts rather shy while wearing it but it's still meant to showcase how much Mimi's friendship means to her anyways since I doubt Sora would be anywhere near as embarrassed wearing said outfit.

There's also the fact that Hikari/Kari already had a big scene near the end of part 2 of tri of her helping Jo with his struggles of his reason for fighting (since at that point in tri he was struggling with his grades and felt that if he focused on fighting that would mean throwing his chances of becoming a doctor away while at the same time feeling that he's a coward for having this struggle in the first place since it put his and Gomamon's relationship at risk and some other stuff) and since the scene where Meiko cheers Mimi up and the scene where Hikari/Kari helps Jo out are so close to each other it probably would've been weird to have 2 scenes of Hikari/Kari having big moments of supporting other characters so close to each other.

Jo/Joe already had that scene early...ish in part 2 and like I said earlier had his own character arc with Gomamon so it'd be a little weird for him to be the one to wear the cheerleader outfit (not that he'd look bad in it I'm sure he would've slayed in the outfit but this is more about how he probably isn't the best choice for that scene narratively). Taichi/Tai, Yamato/Matt and Takeru/TK barely have any screentime with Mimi in part 1 and 2 of tri so they probably wouldn't be very good choices for that scene. And Koushiro/Izzy already had a crush on Mimi that was played for comedic effect so a scene with him and Mimi probably wouldn't be that narratively effective and there's his arc in part 3 (as well as the fact that much like the other main characters, he's been friends with Mimi for years and I've already gone over why someone like Meiko who hasn't been friends with Mimi for that long was more narratively effective). Sometimes when it comes to critiquing a character's role in a story it's less about if other characters could've done the same thing and more about if using said character is the most narratively effective choice. There's also the fact that since Meiko plays a more non action supporting role (which would've only been sexist if Meiko was the only major female character in tri but since Sora, Mimi and Hikari/Kari already play the role of action girls who help out and contribute to fight scenes means I highly doubt one supporting character hurts) means that it was kind of necessary to give Meiko scenes like these especially when you take into consideration that her partner Meicoomon is the source of the infection and technically one of the main antagonists in tri.

There's also the fact that we know the 02 epilogue is still canon and that we know all of the main protagonists from the first 2 seasons make it out okay so new characters like Maki, Daigo, Meiko and Meicoomon being created for tri was kind of necessary to prevent tri from being way too predictable since we know they're going to survive anyways (which is fine for something more minor like those Last Evolution: Kizuna shorts but probably not for something more major like tri or the post tri movies), something that Last Evolution: Kizuna and 02: The Beginning also did by creating new characters for basically the same reason as tri.

As for Meiko repeating the words Sora taught her in part 3 back to her in part 4, much like the cheerleader outfit scene it's not just meant to showcase Meiko contributing to Sora's arc that leads to a big change in attitude that leads to her reconciling with Piyomon/Biyomon (well that and being attacked by the Mysterious Man/Dark Gennai and Mugendramon/Machinedramon) but it's also meant to showcase Meiko learning from Sora in those scenes showcasing she took what Sora said to heart. A lot of the points I said about the Daters outfit scene with Mimi and Meiko can also be applied to this scene with Sora and Meiko so I probably won't be going into as much detail but I'll try anyways. Sora spends a surprisingly much larger amount of screentime with Meiko in tri than you'd think but she also surprisingly barely had any screentime with Takeru/TK in tri up to this point so he probably wouldn't be good substitute as well as the fact that he and Koushiro/Izzy already had an entire OVA mostly focused on them. And again much like the scene with Mimi and Meiko in part 2 I feel part of the reason this scene works as well as it does is because Meiko is someone Sora hasn't been friends with anywhere near as long as someone like Taichi/Tai, Yamato/Matt, Mimi, Jo or Hikari/Kari since those are people Sora (and the audience probably) probably would've been way more expected to try to cheer her up since she's known them for way longer... depending on who you'd ask (this part is honestly noticeably more subjective than the other points for an already subjective rant).

At this point in tri it's also just in character of Meiko to be supportive of others and this is meant to lead into the scene where Meiko reunites with Meicoomon taking those words Sora said to heart by admitting it was wrong of her not to go with the others to the Digital World (that she did because she felt she didn't deserve to see Meicoomon due to feeling responsible for all of the other partner digimon getting infected and couldn't tell the others for the same reason Takeru/TK couldn't tell the others about Patamon being infected).

The scene is also most likely meant to parallel Sora and Piyomon/Biyomon's reconciliation later in part 4 (Anyone else really thankful Piyomon/Biyomon's statement about wanting to try Sora's meatballs in tri was written with sincerity like the sea salt ice creams in Kingdom Hearts and not irony poisoned like hell like a Joss Whedon script... screw that creep). It probably wouldn't work as well if you used Taichi/Tai and Agumon, Yamato/Matt and Gabumon, Mimi and Palmon etc. for these moments for the reasons I already listed given and I'm already running out of things to say about this unnecessarily long rant. I guess wishing Meiko contributed more is a reasonable complaint but don't try to move the goalpost when someone brings these scenes up since you'd be kind of contradicting your wish (these aren't even the only scenes where she contributes like how her wish to put Meicoomon out of her misery near the end of part 5 was one of the most important decisions in tri that lead to the other main characters following along with that decision and how it lead to them realising that they can't save everyone but this also isn't that important to this rant). I probably could've worded some things better or come up with better reasons but hopefully people understand where I'm coming from. Or you could use this as shipping fuel and reasons to like the Mimi x Meiko, Sora x Meiko and/or Sora x Mimi x Meiko ships more I don't mind (in fact I encourage it).

[scrubf1re]

Why I feel Alice’s Dobermon was poorly written.

The most disappointing thing about Alice's Dobermon from tamers to me honestly is Dobermon's lack of character. Specifically how little personality he's given outside of just being there to give the tamers the ability to matrix evolve/biomerge in the real world. I genuinely struggle to come up with any actual character traits Dobermon has other than serious... I guess? I dunno this digimon partner is so underwritten and lacking in screentime that I wouldn't be making this rant if he was given an actual personality and character outside of being a plot device. Speaking of the tamers inability to matrix evolve/biomerge in the real world plotline, I might just be illiterate but anyone else feel like that plot point adds very little to tamers overall story, themes and characters (specifically the tamers themselves) since you could remove it and you'd lose basically nothing in terms of the things I just mentioned? I'm having a hard time remembering what the actual point of that plot point even was other than arbitrarily adding stakes that would've still been there if you removed said plotline (I would like to be corrected on this part of the rant). Meaning that Dobermon only exists for a plot point that doesn't have much reason to even be there in the first place and even then if I’m wrong (which I likely am) it certainly wasn’t to the benefit of Dobermon’s lack of character. It also makes Dobermon's sacrifice feel poorly handled since we barely got to know him and thus makes it difficult to feel sad for his death which is ironic since it comes after Juri/Jeri’s Leomon's death from the same exact season which didn't have any of the same problems since we actually got to know Leomon and he was given a personality outside of getting killed by Beelzebumon/Beelzemon such as starting off as being a loner but grew to be more protective of Juri/Jeri overtime while also being loyal, steadfast, brave etc.

I know making a rant like this seems excessive for what's basically a one off side character especially when you compare him to a more major side character like Juri/Jeri’s Leomon but considering but Dobermon was still important to the plot thread about the main characters inability to matrix evolve/biomerge in the real world means I think I can still criticise Dobermon for how poorly he fits his role in that point in tamers' story and I needed an example of a more effective death scene anyways. Anyways that was my unnecessarily long rant why I think a one off side character from a children's monster collecting anime was poorly written and why I feel his death wasn't well written and why it's so difficult to feel sad when he died. Rant over I guess it probably wasn’t even that well thought out anyways.

[scrubf1re]

Digimon fans who decide to make fanart of “all of the main characters across the entire original adventure anime continuity” but seemingly always seem to leave Wallace/Willis and/or Meiko out every time despite also being main characters in adventure instalments (hurricane touchdown and tri respectively) because “movies and OVAs don’t count or some other pretentious crap” are absolute cowards.

[scrubf1re]

Me attempting to clear up a fandom misconception about digimon adventure tri.

Probably a hot take (or more just an excuse to clear up what I feel is a misconception) but while I understand thinking it's weird for some (but not all like how the news reporter’s statement in part 1 about how “This same creature has appeared a few times in the past. Each time it’s caused serious damage.” in regards to how this isn’t the first time Greymon has appeared in Odaiba and another reporter literally calling Meicrackmon a digimon after destroying a power plant in part 5) people to forget about the digimon in tri I don't think digimon fans realise that the alternative scenario where they do remember doesn't make as much sense as they think it does. Mainly because in 02 it was explained that it was because the Gennai and his many copies messed with info all over the net regarding what happened the first time a digimon related world ending threat happened to the real world.

Remember how Iori/Cody remembered said events when talking with Gennai in this screenshot but Daisuke/Davis didn't recognise digimon at all and freaked out when he first saw one and went to the digital world at the start of 02? Info regarding digimon was messed with in an attempt to hide their existence from the public and as a result many people forgot while others didn’t.

Even if it's not stated in tri it's not unreasonable to believe the same exact thing happened again in tri (or more specifically some time before the events of tri given that we see Gennai (or at least a copy of him) in the same kind of pod as the 02 kids in part 6 meaning he was out of commission)

since it's a sequel and therefore should follow the same rules as adventure and 02 and even if it was stated that alternative scenario could still be criticised as being a rather redundant piece of info for the audience since it already happened in 02 if you ask me. Heck if it didn’t happen again in tri I bet fans would be asking why Gennai and his copies didn’t try to hide the digital world’s existence again especially since he brought up in 02 how hiding it was necessary to prevent governments from exploiting the digimon’s power especially when the international chosen children/digidestined still aren’t public knowledge in tri much like in 02. Basically what this thread is trying to say is that it wouldn't make as much sense for everyone to remember the events of Odaiba in tri as some digimon fans think it would (I blame the abridged series for spreading this misconception if you ask me) given what's already happened to the publics knowledge of digimon in 02. Weirdly enough it would've been even weirder if the same thing happened again in Last Evolution: Kizuna since at that point the human world had already faced three world ending threats whereas in 02 and tri it only faced one and two respectively (alongside the fact that Gennai was out of commission much like the 02 kids during tri like I said before) and the fact that the international chosen children/digidestined don’t seem to be hiding themselves in that movie like they used to (which given how everyone has a digimon partner in the 02 epilogue is likely why since it’s meant to build up to it). Funny how there's a logical in universe explanation for all three situations in the adventure continuity if you ask me. I know I've already made a similar thread in the past I just wanted to update said thread and fix up mistakes said thread made in the first place. TLDR: while I can understand where the criticism is coming from, I just feel the reason I cannot bring myself to agree with it is because the criticism itself makes less and less sense the longer I think about it given the points I've already brought up in this thread. Let me know if my reasons made sense or not.