#doretalks

[pumpkinhimiko]

bless you for doing god's work and calling out people who fish for cheap clout through "v3 translation bad" posts. there's been too much misinformation or overblown stuff circulating for literal years, because people parrot things that only FEEL researched without fact-checking anything. and that post particularly felt like a bait, considering that despite claiming to be obsessed with franchise for 10 years, they have ZERO dr related posts, aside from what they just wrote.

also funny how folks who deliberately spread misinformation, or at the very least extremely biased and debatable takes, always hide behind weak "just let us have fuuuunnn :((((" excuses when predictably faced with valid criticism. I dunno, but I don't see the fun in sensationalized misconceptions and its blind supporters, in fact debunking those like you do is what restores my enjoyment of this fandom!

Oh, is that what they said? I didn't see because they blocked me immediately, but yeah, often the response to being called out is "why can't you just let me spread misinformation in PEACE, ugh >:(".

There's way too many (cough Kokichi cough) fans that read a decade old blog post, regurgitate it ad nauseam, and then feel smart and enlightened because they're the only ones that truly understand the real V3... even though 9/10 times they've never actually touched the Japanese version they're glazing so hard because they don't know the goddamn language. And don't hold your breath waiting for an explanation for how the dialogue was mistranslated or what line was changed to what, because they have no idea. They're just repeating what they've been told, no proof necessary. And because they don't know anything about the language or the localization process, they think anything that isn't a 1:1 literal translation is a "mistranslation".

There's always an agenda behind it, too, honestly--none of these whiners want to speak on the honest to God actual mistranslations in the game like Kokichi saying he gets ganged up on. Or the "Trustworthy?" on Kokichi's whiteboard. Or how Kokichi isn't the only character who can come off harsher in the localization. Funny how these are never brought up in their long list of grievances.

But anyway, yeah, thanks for the message! It's seriously an uphill battle combatting all the misinformation and lies surrounding the localization, especially since everyone's so happy to eat up the narrative that "NISA RUINED V3!!" without question. Even in that post there's a depressing amount of comments thanking the OP for spreading more misinfo. But if I can convince even one person of the truth, that makes me happy.

[pumpkinhimiko]

"Mistranslations" that are not mistranslations

Now with an additional part 2.

NISA has made plenty of mistakes while translating the Danganronpa series (and I've complained about them before), and so they have a reputation of being untrustworthy. But because of this reputation, I feel like fans are too quick to trust whatever anyone that isn't NISA states as absolute fact. So, I want to examine some instances of fan translators claiming NISA has mistranslated something, when, no, actually, they didn't.

Kokichi's last words

人にやらされるゲームなんて…楽しい訳あるかよ… A game you're forced to play... how could that be fun...

This is probably the most widespread myth in terms of "mistranslations that aren't", with the original post that makes this claim having over 2k notes: that Kokichi in the original Japanese actually says, "How could a game where you're forced to kill people be fun...?" Unfortunately, it's just not true. Fortunately for me, there's a reddit post here that breaks the line down in detail, so I don't have to do any work.

Anyway, I really wanted to make this post because of this thread, which makes several false claims.

 Kokichi says he's afraid of friends in general

オレは、そういう『仲間』が他人よりも怖いけどねー。I'm more afraid of those kinds of [friends] than strangers.

So... souiu, meaning that type of/that kind of is right there, directly before nakama (which can mean friend, especially if it's in a shounen anime, but can also just mean companion/member of a group). I don't understand how you can miss this. Not only is it right there, this claim on its face doesn't make sense. Why, in this context, would Kokichi suddenly blurt out that he's afraid of having friends? It has nothing to do with the conversation they're having.

Shuichi's words to Kokichi after the 4th trial

王馬くん、もういいだろ ? Ouma-kun, isn't this enough? その話を聞かせてくれよ。Tell us about that.

Okay, you've probably heard the phrase mou ii a lot if you watch anime, and it's almost always accompanied by a frustrated huff. Because it is, in fact, something you say when impatient, fed up, what have you. It literally means "good already", carrying pretty much the identical meaning of the English phrase, "that's enough" or "I've had enough". Shuichi does not say it's okay as in it's daijoubu, which is the word you use when trying to comfort someone. He is very much frustrated here and telling Kokichi to fess up.

Citation needed

I couldn't find a line like this in Kokichi's FTEs, but maaaaaaaybe I missed it? Shuichi's narration comments quite a few times on Kokichi acting childishly throughout the game, but I couldn't find anything like this in specific.

EDIT: Correction, I did find it, and it's covered in part two. Suffice to say, the OP got this line completely wrong.

That Kaito thing

Yeah this is patently false. It's also already been touched on in this thread with comments backing it up, so there’s another thing I don't have to get into. I'll put the text here though.

オレはテメーみて一に胸クソ悪い真似までして、If I have to mimic your sickening behavior, 生き残りて一とは思わねーんだよ。I don't think I want to survive.

Shuichi's words to Kokichi after the 4th trial part deaux

I've seen varying claims on how these lines were translated, from them being slightly tweaked, to the claim they were completely butchered to make Saihara too aggressive. I'm just going to leave it here and let you come to your own conclusions.

ダサいのはキミの方だよ…王馬くん。The lame one is you... Ouma-kun.

百田くんの周りにはいつも人が集まってくる… Momota-kun always has people around him... でも、キミの周りには誰もいないじゃないか。But, there's no one around you.

キミは…その程度のヤツって事だよ。That's... what kind of person you are.

This is snappy in its own way, though, if you consider that 程度 is closer to meaning grade/level/degree rather than simply "type of". "That's the level of person you are," basically.

And if you doubt me on any of this, I encourage you to do your own research, get second opinions if you can. I know not everyone knows Japanese, in which case you can't really help but rely on someone else and hope their translation is accurate. That said, at the bare minimum, I think people should provide screenshots and the original Japanese text if they're going to claim something is a mistranslation. Like, I don't think you should be able to say "actually in Japanese Kokichi says he volunteers at animal shelters in his free time but NISA cut it!" and have half the fandom believe you with no proof.

[pumpkinhimiko]

Since the post about differences in translation WRT Kaito and Kokichi's relationship was unfortunately deleted, I've taken it upon myself to make my own for posterity's sake.

NISA: Geez… you're such a naive dude.

OG: 。。。ったく、テメーはピユアなやろうだな。/ …Geez, you're such a pure guy.

A pretty well-known change that makes Kaito sound more insulting then he does in the original. Kokichi's response was also altered not only in the text, but in the voice acting; in Japanese, he sounds uncharacteristically emotionless, rather than annoyed like in the dub.

NISA: Well, we come from different backgrounds. So for now, let's agree to disagree. No one's ever called me naive before. And from Kaito? Seriously?

OG: まあ、百田ちゃんとオレの話が合わないのわ最初あきらめているけど。。。 / Well, I'd already given up on seeing eye to eye with Momota-chan since the beginning… ピュアなんて言われてのわ初めてだよ。オレみたいに嘘つきがさ。/ But that's the first time someone's called a liar like me pure.

Kaito goes from telling Maki to let Kokichi go or he'll die, to telling Maki to let Kokichi go so she won't get executed:

NISA: Maki Roll, cut it out! You'll get killed if you don't!

OG: ハルマキ、もうやめろ！それ以上やったらマジで死ぬぞ！/ Harumaki, stop already! Any more than that and he'll seriously die!

Kaito's response to Maki saying he shouldn't have cooperated with Kokichi is translated to sound like he was pestered into it. In the original, it sounds like he's seriously reflecting on Kokichi's state of mind throughout the game.

NISA: It was kinda hard to ignore such an annoying guy. Geez… I wonder how far ahead he planned this evil scheme of his.

OG: 。。。あいつわそんあ易しいヤツじゃねーよ。/ …He wasn't that simple. まったく。。。どこからどこまでが計算だったんだろうな。あいつの悪巧みわよ。/ Man… I wonder how much of it he'd planned out. For that cunning scheme of his.

And of course, Kaito's final words on Kokichi were made to sound a lot harsher.

NISA: He was a lying sack of shit.

OG: 。。。あいつは筋金入りの嘘つきだったぜ。/ …He was a liar to the core.

[pumpkinhimiko]

"Kaito literally punched Shuichi just for crying!" is an obscenely widespread sentiment when there's only one person crying in that scene, and it isn't Shuichi.

Shuichi isn't crying in the lead-up to this, either; he cries before Kaede is executed, and afterwards just goes completely silent, in a state of shock, while the other students freak out around him for a good few minutes. Which is the real reason why Kaito punched him:

So no, he didn't punch Shuichi for "being sad and crying". Still totally unreasonable on Kaito's part, but it's wild just how many people get this chain of events completely backwards. If anything, Kaito is angry that Shuichi isn't acting more upset.

[pumpkinhimiko]

I find it slightly depressing that the very little we know about Kaito's upbringing is thanks to pure chance. If Shuichi hadn’t received his motive video, we’d have no idea he lives with his grandparents; he never brings it up in dialogue, and in his FTEs seemingly goes out of his way to avoid sharing any concrete personal details about himself. Shuichi doesn’t really think about the video beyond, “I have to show this to Kaito!”, not wondering why Kaito’s grandparents appear to be his only immediate family. Kaito knows about Shuichi working for his uncle and his traumatic experience with the agency, and they both know plenty about Maki’s past—she gets an infodump in chapter 4, plus a special event concerning a botched assassination, plus a bunch of tidbits of info sprinkled into dialogue throughout. And Kaede, while much of her life is revealed by virtue of her being a POV character, also shares a fair amount about how her past classmates treated her.

Kaito, on the other hand, is the only main character besides Kokichi (a character infamous for being secretive) whose past we know next to nothing about, and what we do know is discovered by accident (again like Kokichi, whose backstory is also sparsely revealed via motive video). Shuichi doesn’t follow up on it after the group hesitates about sharing the motive videos, and it’s kind of disappointing that he isn’t at all curious about how Kaito’s living situation came to be.

[pumpkinhimiko]

Thanks for replying. While we're at it, I'd like to hear your thoughts on these ships: 1) Amamatsu. I like this ship, it'd be great to hear your takes on it!! 2) Oumatsu. it's been spreading on DRtwt, fans often mention that they embody the main theme of V3 (Truth vs Lies) and that their few interactions are romantically toned, so it could be a semi-canon ship. 3) Oumeno, there is a lot of content made by Japanese fans about this ship, so I'm curious.

1) I enjoy amamatsu well enough. Its main selling point is the "what could have been" if they survived longer, especially since Rantaro was being built up as the rival to Kaede's protagonist. Outside of the killing game, though, I dunno. They'd probably be a little too well-adjusted for my tastes.

2) I've already given my take on this here and here, but to TL;DR: I like the ship but don't find a strong basis for it in canon, nor do I read their interactions as romantically charged. I haven't seen this rumored thread myself, but I've got no clue where they're getting the idea that Kaede represents "truth". Is it just because she encourages Shuichi to find the truth? Because uh, plenty of characters do that, since not doing so will get them all killed. Kaede doesn't have a personal investment in the truth outside of wanting everyone to live, and Kaito usurps the role of pushing Shuichi towards the truth for most of the game.

Anyway, oumatsu is cute, although my reasons for liking it are largely the similarities with oumota. They're critical of each other, but it comes from a place of worry. Kaede is a little too content with dismissing everything Kokichi says as him just fucking around, though, even when he's clearly trying to get her to read between the lines.

(...but I mean, "semi-canon"? Really? Ships like naegiri and saimatsu are what I would call "semi-canon". But oumatsu? Come on. Let's not kid ourselves.)

3) I give it a hard "meh". I've seen the appeal of oumeno explained as them both being performers that want to make people smile and LBR Himiko being the only girl shorter than him, which, okay, sure. Their canon interactions still leave much to be desired. The whole bit where Kokichi calls her out in the third trial only serves to stoke the flames of my oumota-addled brain, since it took a combination of Kokichi's badgering and Kaito's subsequent defense for Himiko to achieve a breakthrough.

[pumpkinhimiko]

That Time The Mastermind Saved Kokichi's Plan From Utter Failure

Because come on, the irony is too delicious not to be talked about more. Are we all gonna ignore how Kokichi very nearly drove everyone to suicide in Chapter 5?

This is the group's reaction to Kokichi exposing the state of the outside world. His goal of killing everyone's hope to leave the school also kills all their hope in general. Not only does he crush their will to live, he kidnaps their last remaining pillar of emotional support and locks him in a bathroom to die of illness (Kaito). It's painfully obvious that with a blow like that, there's going to be some suicidality, to put it lightly. So obvious that I would think he wanted that if it didn't ruin his plan.

But Kokichi wants to ruin the killing game to the point there can't be another one, ever, and group suicide does one of two things (assuming Tsumugi doesn't also kill herself, because why would she): 1. either Kaito and Kokichi are the two winning survivors because the mastermind isn't really counted as a student, or 2. there's a class trial, one where all of Kokichi's efforts are put to waste, where he can't fool the real mastermind and can only pray he's not immediately voted as the blackened.

But then... Tsumugi can't let her show end like this. That's too anti-climactic. So she plants a flashback light with memories that unite the group to a common goal and gives them the will to fight back against Kokichi. The group lives another day, and so does Kokichi's plan that came a hair's width to failing. He has the mastermind he hates so much to thank for that.

[pumpkinhimiko]

Look, whether you think Kaito's a chauvinistic raging bigot or not, I need people to realize that "okama" is too context-heavy to reduce it to the "English equivalent of the f slur", regardless of what Reddit says. The only way it would have made sense to translate it like that is if Kaito had screamed at Korekiyo "KONO OKAMA YAROU!!!!!" before bashing him in the face or something. This is not what happens, and props to those that already know that because half the people parroting the "Kaito is homophobic" talking points couldn't even tell you the context behind the scene where the word was used.

And consider how strange it is that, despite the English fandom's obsession with Kaito saying “okama”, when I search 百田/Momota and おかま/okama together, I find... nothing. I can’t find a single Japanese-speaking fan talking about this scene. How can you say these words are the same as each other when one of them would have incited internet riots if NISA had included it, while the other word didn't cause its native speakers to even bat an eye?