#translation bs

[pumpkinhimiko]

Since I've heard so many sort-of-similar but conflicting opinions about it, and I don't really trust the "unconditionally hate NISA" crowd due to the misinformation they spread - is it okay for me to ask you how Gonta speaks in the JP version, exactly?

I know it's not a Tarzan speech, but I've heard anything ranging from "polite and formal" to "informal and casual" to "like a typical teenager" to "eloquent and almost poetic" to "stiff but grammatically correct".

Obviously those don't add up, and there's so much agenda and self-righteousness behind this discussion, that I'd rather just ask someone I actually trust.

These posts say Gonta talks like a polite kid. Not just in 3rd person, but uses simple vocabulary too. x.com/bossu_osu/status/2052960734338764836 x.com/bossu_osu/status/2052962395685892512

And to me it makes more sense than most. OP is someone who I trust more as well, since they debunked some "mistranslations" gossip regarding Kaito.

I think I also saw a claim that Gonta's lines are mostly written in hiragana and avoid kanji to convey that simplicity? That'd be really interesting writing technique, but take my words with a grain of salt, I can't find it and I'm worried I must be misremembering.

But if that's not a trouble, I'd like to know your opinion, even if based only on a selected scene (asking about the whole game would be too much, haha)

Right off the bat, "informal and casual" "like a typical teenager" or "eloquent and almost poetic" are not words I'd use to describe Gonta's Japanese speech pattern. Not even close lol.

It's true that he doesn't use complicated words (the times in English he struggles to pronounce something are all from the Japanese version), but is still polite and uses proper grammar. So him talking like a "polite kid", as 22fuka22 says in that screenshot, is pretty apt. Also, 22fuka22 is an actual native speaking Japanese person so I'm going to take their word on it above all.

Grammar aside, Gonta also just has some cutesy vocal mannerisms that you'd expect from a child, like calling bugs 虫さん/mushi-san (roughly Mr./Ms. Bug), while in English he calls them "bug friends". Using this example, I feel like the overall vibe you get is that JP!Gonta is childlike but in a polite, earnest way, while ENG!Gonta's way of speaking gives off the vibe of being, well, kind of slow. This doesn't really contradict the thread's point though, which is about Gonta being infantilized; which, I believe even if the translators leaned harder into the JP version's vibe of childishness, of course you'd still have people treating him like a child.

Also, the amount of people I've seen acting like if you just played the Japanese version of the game you'd never get the vibe that Gonta's naive or easy to manipulate is ridiculous. His being raised in the woods by aliens wolves and therefore incredibly gullible doesn't mean he's stupid, but it's a canon character trait. I've seen plenty of comments from Japanese fans where they fully blame Ouma for Chapter 4's events and see Gonta as his victim, for the record.

TBH I think where a lot of this misunderstanding of Gonta's Japanese speech pattern stems from (other than how the fandom likes to play telephone about the localization and exaggerate what they hear with every phone call) is due to people that are only beginner-intermediate at Japanese failing to recognize "simple" speech when they see it. If a few months ago you were using children's books to learn Japanese, then childish speech is going to look like the norm to you.

[silver-wield]

Ben Sabin: … every fan has their own ideal version of the translations (yeah Ben the correct one!! What we paid for), we had to come to grips with the fact that it would be impossible to please everyone (very easy to please everyone, just translate with the true context still intact like other translator did!!), no matter what we did (you did the wrong thing that’s why fans felt cheated of an Authentic product, nobody was pissed at other translations). Just stop the ‘BS’…’Ben Sabin’.

Yup. Nobody wanted anything but an accurate translation. This guy decided to insert Ltd bs into the script when it didn't exist and now he's trying to cover his ass by saying it's our fault for having expectations. No. Our expectations are to have the same thing everyone else got.

Own your mistake or get replaced. Don't give us this same shit with part 2 or I guarantee the fandom will lynch this guy for fucking up the narrative. It had nothing to do with ships. We want the story that Nojima wrote, not some random dude with delusions of grandeur.

[shoku-and-awe]

@snowfloks replied to your post Has anyone even told them? I mean, the people at the front desk of the hotel have no connection with the sign being made or translated, no idea who was involved with it, no idea who to contact to fix it. Why should they? Not their job.

[pumpkinhimiko]

bless you for doing god's work and calling out people who fish for cheap clout through "v3 translation bad" posts. there's been too much misinformation or overblown stuff circulating for literal years, because people parrot things that only FEEL researched without fact-checking anything. and that post particularly felt like a bait, considering that despite claiming to be obsessed with franchise for 10 years, they have ZERO dr related posts, aside from what they just wrote.

also funny how folks who deliberately spread misinformation, or at the very least extremely biased and debatable takes, always hide behind weak "just let us have fuuuunnn :((((" excuses when predictably faced with valid criticism. I dunno, but I don't see the fun in sensationalized misconceptions and its blind supporters, in fact debunking those like you do is what restores my enjoyment of this fandom!

Oh, is that what they said? I didn't see because they blocked me immediately, but yeah, often the response to being called out is "why can't you just let me spread misinformation in PEACE, ugh >:(".

There's way too many (cough Kokichi cough) fans that read a decade old blog post, regurgitate it ad nauseam, and then feel smart and enlightened because they're the only ones that truly understand the real V3... even though 9/10 times they've never actually touched the Japanese version they're glazing so hard because they don't know the goddamn language. And don't hold your breath waiting for an explanation for how the dialogue was mistranslated or what line was changed to what, because they have no idea. They're just repeating what they've been told, no proof necessary. And because they don't know anything about the language or the localization process, they think anything that isn't a 1:1 literal translation is a "mistranslation".

There's always an agenda behind it, too, honestly--none of these whiners want to speak on the honest to God actual mistranslations in the game like Kokichi saying he gets ganged up on. Or the "Trustworthy?" on Kokichi's whiteboard. Or how Kokichi isn't the only character who can come off harsher in the localization. Funny how these are never brought up in their long list of grievances.

But anyway, yeah, thanks for the message! It's seriously an uphill battle combatting all the misinformation and lies surrounding the localization, especially since everyone's so happy to eat up the narrative that "NISA RUINED V3!!" without question. Even in that post there's a depressing amount of comments thanking the OP for spreading more misinfo. But if I can convince even one person of the truth, that makes me happy.

[pumpkinhimiko]

"Mistranslations" that are not mistranslations

Now with an additional part 2.

NISA has made plenty of mistakes while translating the Danganronpa series (and I've complained about them before), and so they have a reputation of being untrustworthy. But because of this reputation, I feel like fans are too quick to trust whatever anyone that isn't NISA states as absolute fact. So, I want to examine some instances of fan translators claiming NISA has mistranslated something, when, no, actually, they didn't.

Kokichi's last words

人にやらされるゲームなんて…楽しい訳あるかよ… A game you're forced to play... how could that be fun...

This is probably the most widespread myth in terms of "mistranslations that aren't", with the original post that makes this claim having over 2k notes: that Kokichi in the original Japanese actually says, "How could a game where you're forced to kill people be fun...?" Unfortunately, it's just not true. Fortunately for me, there's a reddit post here that breaks the line down in detail, so I don't have to do any work.

Anyway, I really wanted to make this post because of this thread, which makes several false claims.

 Kokichi says he's afraid of friends in general

オレは、そういう『仲間』が他人よりも怖いけどねー。I'm more afraid of those kinds of [friends] than strangers.

So... souiu, meaning that type of/that kind of is right there, directly before nakama (which can mean friend, especially if it's in a shounen anime, but can also just mean companion/member of a group). I don't understand how you can miss this. Not only is it right there, this claim on its face doesn't make sense. Why, in this context, would Kokichi suddenly blurt out that he's afraid of having friends? It has nothing to do with the conversation they're having.

Shuichi's words to Kokichi after the 4th trial

王馬くん、もういいだろ ? Ouma-kun, isn't this enough? その話を聞かせてくれよ。Tell us about that.

Okay, you've probably heard the phrase mou ii a lot if you watch anime, and it's almost always accompanied by a frustrated huff. Because it is, in fact, something you say when impatient, fed up, what have you. It literally means "good already", carrying pretty much the identical meaning of the English phrase, "that's enough" or "I've had enough". Shuichi does not say it's okay as in it's daijoubu, which is the word you use when trying to comfort someone. He is very much frustrated here and telling Kokichi to fess up.

Citation needed

I couldn't find a line like this in Kokichi's FTEs, but maaaaaaaybe I missed it? Shuichi's narration comments quite a few times on Kokichi acting childishly throughout the game, but I couldn't find anything like this in specific.

EDIT: Correction, I did find it, and it's covered in part two. Suffice to say, the OP got this line completely wrong.

That Kaito thing

Yeah this is patently false. It's also already been touched on in this thread with comments backing it up, so there’s another thing I don't have to get into. I'll put the text here though.

オレはテメーみて一に胸クソ悪い真似までして、If I have to mimic your sickening behavior, 生き残りて一とは思わねーんだよ。I don't think I want to survive.

Shuichi's words to Kokichi after the 4th trial part deaux

I've seen varying claims on how these lines were translated, from them being slightly tweaked, to the claim they were completely butchered to make Saihara too aggressive. I'm just going to leave it here and let you come to your own conclusions.

ダサいのはキミの方だよ…王馬くん。The lame one is you... Ouma-kun.

百田くんの周りにはいつも人が集まってくる… Momota-kun always has people around him... でも、キミの周りには誰もいないじゃないか。But, there's no one around you.

キミは…その程度のヤツって事だよ。That's... what kind of person you are.

This is snappy in its own way, though, if you consider that 程度 is closer to meaning grade/level/degree rather than simply "type of". "That's the level of person you are," basically.

And if you doubt me on any of this, I encourage you to do your own research, get second opinions if you can. I know not everyone knows Japanese, in which case you can't really help but rely on someone else and hope their translation is accurate. That said, at the bare minimum, I think people should provide screenshots and the original Japanese text if they're going to claim something is a mistranslation. Like, I don't think you should be able to say "actually in Japanese Kokichi says he volunteers at animal shelters in his free time but NISA cut it!" and have half the fandom believe you with no proof.

[pumpkinhimiko]

Since the post about differences in translation WRT Kaito and Kokichi's relationship was unfortunately deleted, I've taken it upon myself to make my own for posterity's sake.

NISA: Geez… you're such a naive dude.

OG: 。。。ったく、テメーはピユアなやろうだな。/ …Geez, you're such a pure guy.

A pretty well-known change that makes Kaito sound more insulting then he does in the original. Kokichi's response was also altered not only in the text, but in the voice acting; in Japanese, he sounds uncharacteristically emotionless, rather than annoyed like in the dub.

NISA: Well, we come from different backgrounds. So for now, let's agree to disagree. No one's ever called me naive before. And from Kaito? Seriously?

OG: まあ、百田ちゃんとオレの話が合わないのわ最初あきらめているけど。。。 / Well, I'd already given up on seeing eye to eye with Momota-chan since the beginning… ピュアなんて言われてのわ初めてだよ。オレみたいに嘘つきがさ。/ But that's the first time someone's called a liar like me pure.

Kaito goes from telling Maki to let Kokichi go or he'll die, to telling Maki to let Kokichi go so she won't get executed:

NISA: Maki Roll, cut it out! You'll get killed if you don't!

OG: ハルマキ、もうやめろ！それ以上やったらマジで死ぬぞ！/ Harumaki, stop already! Any more than that and he'll seriously die!

Kaito's response to Maki saying he shouldn't have cooperated with Kokichi is translated to sound like he was pestered into it. In the original, it sounds like he's seriously reflecting on Kokichi's state of mind throughout the game.

NISA: It was kinda hard to ignore such an annoying guy. Geez… I wonder how far ahead he planned this evil scheme of his.

OG: 。。。あいつわそんあ易しいヤツじゃねーよ。/ …He wasn't that simple. まったく。。。どこからどこまでが計算だったんだろうな。あいつの悪巧みわよ。/ Man… I wonder how much of it he'd planned out. For that cunning scheme of his.

And of course, Kaito's final words on Kokichi were made to sound a lot harsher.

NISA: He was a lying sack of shit.

OG: 。。。あいつは筋金入りの嘘つきだったぜ。/ …He was a liar to the core.

[pumpkinhimiko]

Sorry for walltext in advance.

You know, idk if you agree, so feel free to correct me, but what I find very ironic about some of the criticism and myths regarding the localization, is that people say "It sounds so much meaner in english!", but they clearly stubbornly read things through American-centric lenses.

In reality, Japanese society culturally communicates in more reserved, polite and subtle ways, and it's very common to repress blunt opinions or strong emotions for the sake of group harmony. Something can be seen as extremely insulting via mere implication, or just not speaking formally enough. Such as things that you apparently can't really thank others for giving you compliments, you have to respond with "oh it's nothing!", otherwise you may end up being seen as full of yourself for merely acknowledging your achievements. Apparently same goes for saying stuff like "I play music" vs "I'm a musician". The latter may be seen as ego-puffing, and even masters of any profession will often say "it's just a thing I do". Or the fact people often say "like" instead of "love" while confessing, since the word for love may be seen as too intense, or like it cheapens the depth of the feelings, if used too much.

So for example this whole debacle over Ch4's JP "that's the kind of a person you are" vs ENG "you're alone, always will be" feels completely ignorant. Before Shuichi says this line in either language, he literally points out how everyone naturally flocks to Kaito, not Kokichi. The implication of Kokichi being alone is already there, and the difference between "forever" and "you're like this" feels cosmetic at best. Heh, imo the latter feels more crushing, since it implies something is wrong with Kokichi on a deeply fundamental level.

All the english line does is spell things out directly.

But I think I can risk betting that the emotional impact of each language version is similar in its respective culture. Ouma just led his two collaborators to their miserable deaths. Like DUH, of course dude who's abrasive and deliberately plans to sacrifice whomever reaches out to him may not be exactly enticing to hang around with. You don't need harsh words to realize this, given the literal things that happened on screen.

It's not the only example I can think of but… there's a ton of between-the-lines, hinted stuff and subtleties. And sometimes hints aren't even there, you gotta look at the big picture and deduce the meaning or real feelings in spite of characters' words. But it's more natural for American and some western cultures to be more open and direct, so seemingly same sentences carry different weight. You can't always easily translate stuff 1:1 while retaining similar emotional impact. But kids take a look at a literal translation, and judge it based on their own culture without realizing any of it. Like OF COURSE it doesn't sound that extreme to THEM.

[pumpkinhimiko]

Hey, since I'm not able to read Japanese, I was always wondering whether Kaito's impersonation of Kokichi seems more accurate in Japanese or if the English version was actually quite faithful to the original. I've seen some people pointing out how obvious Kaito's impersonation seemed because of his intonation and certain word choices, but from what I've heard, Kodaka wanted to keep people guessing until the very end, so... I'm not sure

(I was also wondering about the moment where Kaito was singing Frank Sinatra with Himiko indirectly calling him old. In Japanese, Kaito was surely referencing something or someone else)

P.S. I really appreciate how you keep clearing up misconceptions, especially when it comes to people spreading misinformation about DRV3's translation. I can only imagine how exhausting that can be =_=

Comparing all of Kaito's dialogue in that trial would take me hours so I can't say if that's true or not, but it felt like an accurate impersonation to me in Japanese. This is why people should give specific examples when making claims about the localization, instead of vague, generalized statements.

Instead of singing Frank Sinatra, in Japanese Kokichi screams "I WON'T DIE! BECAUSE I LOVE YOU ALL!" which is a famous line spoken by actor Tetsuya Takeda in the drama "The 101st Proposal".

And thanks for the support. It feels like a losing battle, honestly, and one I'm tired of fighting with how eager this fandom is to make up/believe straight bullshit. It's often someone repackaging and heavily exaggerating @/oumakokichi's post on the localization for some internet clout, acting like they have some profound hidden knowledge about the original Japanese game when as soon as you ask them how the translation was fudged, they can't answer and would probably cry if you showed them hiragana.