Hi, Lost! I'm currently watching a person react to SnK for the first time and somebody in their comments commented this on Midnight Sun
"In the debate over whether to save Erwin or Armin, people always say that Erwin has more experience and wisdom than Armin, and that saving him is the logical choice; but when we look back at all of Erwin’s strategic decisions, very few of them were successful, whereas with Armin, we see success from the very beginning. Humanity’s few successes against the Titans are Armin’s doing. What I mean is that without Erwin, we lose leadership and a man who can convince you of anything—a fundamental pillar of a commander. But strategically, he has always left much to be desired; in fact, in this very battle, he was always one step behind Zeke, costing his own life and those of the other soldiers. One also has to wonder if Erwin’s style—gambling almost everything on risky bets and leaving a trail of dead soldiers in his wake—is a viable long-term plan for humanity."
There's so much of this that is just plain untrue but I have no idea how to articulate my thoughts for a response without spoilers for the reactor beyond midnight sun. I do know that it's entirely unfair to compare how Erwin handles Zeke to how Armin handles Bertholdt because Erwin is going in completely blind against a man whose titan they've never faced and who came prepared from a place where things are far more advanced than Paradis and also while Zeke has had the time to study the ODM gear he snatched from Miche and Intel from Bertholdt and Reiner on top of that.
Meanwhile Armin personally knows Bertholdt and they've some idea on how to face the colossal from previous encounters, which is not to say Armin’s plan wasn't impressive because it was, but it feels like a huge disservice to Erwin to say he's always a step behind Zeke considering those factors.
Guess I'm just curious about your thoughts on that comment cus I've always really appreciated your meta 🙏
After over a decade in the fandom, my tendency when I see hot takes like this, particularly when they’re based on nothing more than “trust me bro”, is to take a deep breath, close my laptop, and walk away. If you have the energy to engage with people like this, more power to you! There’s so much wrong here it’s hard to know where to start, so let’s break it down.
Erwin has more experience and wisdom than Armin, and that saving him is the logical choice
when we look back at all of Erwin’s strategic decisions, very few of them were successful
Untrue. For example Erwin guessed very early on that there was a spy in the Survey Corps, and he devised a strategy to flush them out. Although his plan to capture the Female Titan didn’t succeed, he did prove that they had indeed been infiltrated by the enemy. Erwin also planned and successfully executed a bloodless coup to overthrow the corrupt royal government with minimal loss of life. That’s a pretty major strategic success. I’d also argue that the Expedition to Shiganshina succeeded in most of its objectives, as a result of Erwin’s strategic decisions, although the victory came at a terrible cost. As a result of Erwin’s sacrifice, they were able to defeat the Beast Titan, reach the basement and uncover the truth of the world. The only reason that they didn’t actually capture the Beast Titan as well is that Levi hesitated at the last moment. And we all know why that was.
whereas with Armin, we see success from the very beginning. Humanity’s few successes against the Titans are Armin’s doing.
Untrue. One of Armin’s earliest plans, to capture Annie by luring her into the Underground where she could be prevented from transforming, failed because she saw straight through it. This resulted in the Female Titan and the Attack Titan fighting in the streets of Stohess causing the death of hundreds of civilians. Erwin took responsibility for these deaths, which is right and proper as he was the commanding officer, but the plan was Armin’s.
without Erwin, we lose leadership and a man who can convince you of anything—a fundamental pillar of a commander.
strategically, he has always left much to be desired; in fact, in this very battle, he was always one step behind Zeke, costing his own life and those of the other soldiers.
I’m not entirely sure what “one step behind Zeke” means here. On the one hand, yes, Erwin had little or no knowledge of Zeke and what he was capable off, so he was always going to be on the back foot, on the other hand, despite facing desperate odds, Erwin he still managed to defeat him, by sacrificing himself and his soldiers to act as a distraction enabling Levi to use Zeke’s Titans to get close enough to launch a surprise attack on the Beast Titan and bring him down. It was an all or nothing plan but it did actually work. The other unknown factor in this battle that people tend to forget about is Pieck. The Cart Titan appears for the very first time in Shiganshina and there is no way that any of them could have known how fast and agile they were. She certainly took Levi by surprise when she dived in to rescue Zeke.
One also has to wonder if Erwin’s style—gambling almost everything on risky bets and leaving a trail of dead soldiers in his wake—is a viable long-term plan for humanity.
Honestly. This again? Yes Erwin was a risk taker, but he calculated the cost of every risk and he did everything in his power to minimise casualties, both military and civilian. All the Survey Corps commanders were responsible for the death of hundreds of soldiers, but Erwin was the first to come up with a successful strategy to minimise losses with his long distance scouting formation. The overthrow of the royal government is another perfect example of Erwin’s ability to carry through an incredibly risky plan with minimal loss of life. To be honest I’m pretty sure that if Erwin had lived he would have come up with a viable long-term plan for humanity based on strategy and diplomacy rather than genocide, which is one of the reasons he had to be removed from the plot.
Anyway, if you do have the energy to reply to the person you mentioned, this might give you some pointers. Alternatively you’re very welcome to borrow my Effin Birds picture that I’ve saved for occasions such as these.
