#etsyfail

[cindylouwho-2]

HOW TO DEAL WITH THE ETSY LABEL OVERCHARGE FIASCO

[Originally published July 27, 2020; updated July 28 & August 5, 2020]

In case you missed it, today for several hours, buying shipping labels through Etsy resulted in your account being overcharged by a factor of 100 (i.e.,if the label cost $5, Etsy charged you $500). The problem appears to have been resolved on Etsy’s end, but now sellers are seeing huge credits to their payment accounts that do not accurately compensate for the overcharges. The biggest overcharge I have seen so far is $18,000, but I am sure there are worse. 

In the past, when Etsy has vastly overcharged people, they have paid everyone affected for things like cheques bouncing, overdraft fees, late fees, cancelled credit cards etc. They will likely do that again. They will likely email or convo everyone affected once they sort it out on their end.  [UPDATE: (Aug. 5) An Etsy staffer told a reporter that they would “...reimburse sellers who let our support teams know that they were charged overdraft or related fees." So make sure that you let them know, if you were affected.]

But that isn't good enough. This isn't the first time they have overcharged people thousands of dollars, and it likely isn't the last. When it comes to finances, they are the most technologically deficient company I have ever seen. There is no reason it won't happen again. And again.

Right now, it appears that the small amount of money Etsy makes off of each label is worth far more to them than your financial security or your mental health; they apparently don't care about how many sellers will be stressed about overdrawn bank accounts & unusable credit cards, during a pandemic and a recession. If they did, they would have shut down labels, or at least warned you not to use them until this was fixed. They can always notify you about their latest podcast on your Shop Manager, but they didn't think this merited any communication besides a buried thread in a forum most sellers have never visited.

 EVERYONE AFFECTED NEEDS TO HOLD ETSY ACCOUNTABLE

 Here's how:

1) Contact Etsy and after making sure all charges are reversed and that you are getting compensated for every penny that you lost (late fees, overdraft fees etc.) due to this fiasco,

Demand an explanation as to why they did not turn off labels while the problem continued

Demand an explanation as to why the Technical Issues thread wasn't pinned so more people would see it

Demand an explanation as to why Etsy Status did not report the issue

Demand an explanation as to why there were no notifications in our Shop Managers

Demand an explanation as to why didn't they do anything to let everyone know, and save people this worry, save people bouncing cheques, overdrafts, cancelled credit cards, late fees etc. 

 2) After that, stop giving Etsy any extra penny that you don't have to. The more things you buy from them, the more likely it is that you will get caught in one of these fiascos. So, buy your shipping labels through an outside provider. Pirate Ship is the most popular with many US sellers, but there are many others that integrate with Etsy & import all of your label info automatically. Look into Shipstation, Stamps, Shippo, etc. (Some even work with Canada Post and other providers, beyond USPS.) Remember, they have no reason to stop this type of behaviour if people keep handing them money.

 3) Disable autobilling if possible. It's been involved in most of the more outrageous overcharges. [EDIT: July 28, 11 am ET - in my Etsy forum thread on the issue, other sellers have also suggested a) not using a debit card as your Etsy credit card, so Etsy does not have access to you bank account for withdrawals, b) having a separate bank account for Etsy, and then withdrawing that money as soon as it is deposited, and c) using a prepaid credit card for your Etsy credit card, if possible. All of these will reduce the likelihood of being caught by one of these Etsy financial glitches. 

 4) Then, spread the word about this, everywhere. Do what you can to get any attention to the fact that Etsy let a shipping bug overcharge sellers thousands of dollars, overdrawing the bank & credit limits, without taking measures to disable labels or even let most sellers know this was happening, for hours.

 The quarterly report call is next week; let's make sure the participating financial experts know about this issue so they ask about it. After all, compensating sellers for the overdrafts fees, the late fees, the disabled credit cards etc., is probably going to cost the company more than just missing out on those labels would have in the first place. Etsy might have cost shareholders some coin here, by neglecting to do the right thing & letting everyone know about this issue  before they bought the labels in the first place.

 If sellers don't hold Etsy accountable, certainly no one else will. We're the ones who are most affected by everything Etsy does.

[cindylouwho-2]

Etsy Shop Closures - For Shipping Late?

UPDATE [May 27, 2024] - I am happy to announce that Heather's shop has been restored, with no explanation from Etsy as to what happened or why her appeal was denied. The only thing we know for sure is that publicizing the situation brought swift action. I am leaving this post up as a cautionary tale.

Warning to all sellers: it appears Etsy is now closing shops for a few orders being scanned or shipped later than the processing time that was listed on Etsy. 

That used to be something you might get a warning for, and in the last few years you might get a 90-day payment reserve, but closure is something new. 

I’ve come across a few of these cases in the past few weeks. The most egregious one where I can confirm most of the facts is Etsy’s closure of HeatherJordanJewelry, on May 23 or 22. The shop had Star Seller status (SSS) at the time (proving that SSS is useless to protect you from much, if Etsy decides they want you gone). Heather opened the shop in 2010 and had almost 10,000 sales, almost all at a much higher price point than the average Etsy order. 

What happened to Heather could happen to almost anyone. She had been commuting between her home in Toronto and her parents’ place near London ON to help them out. She had been mailing orders in both cities through ChitChats, a popular Canadian shipping service that allows users to ship via USPS (they transport the packages across the US border). ChitChats closed its London location April 30, but opened a London drop spot in mid-May, through courier service Intelcom. 

Heather started submitting her ChitChats orders there, and saw them scanned by staff. However, she only discovered later that those scans did not transfer to Etsy, so by the time the mail services scanned the packages 1-2 days later, it was past some of her processing times. This had not previously been a problem with the ChitChats office, and appears to be related to their new drop spot. 

Just a week later, Etsy notified Heather that it had issued a refund for one of her recent orders. When she went to her shop to check the case, she discovered the shop was suspended. She had not been notified of the suspension in any way. Heather appealed immediately and was rejected, with the Etsy rep claiming the account had “several risk indicators”.

After extensive discussion with Heather, the other known risk factors I identified are

Higher order values than most Etsy shops

Original shop location and current bank in the United States, where she lived when she opened. Since Etsy cannot transfer shop locations from the US to Canada (or between most countries), this is a common situation. Etsy never told her to close this shop and open a new one with Canadian banking info, and Heather was able to verify her bank etc. as most of us have had to do in the past few years.

Some orders show as shipping from Niagara Falls NY, where ChitChats drops off the USPS orders. Shipping from a different country is common, not just for Canadian shops using similar services, but also for anyone using print-on-demand services to fulfill orders. (Heather was only doing the former) 

If Etsy were shutting shops for 2 or 3 alone, we should be flooded with reports right now, but we aren’t. I know many Canadian shops with US bank info and/or US ship-from addresses, and they are still open. So the main trigger has to have been “shipping late” in Etsy’s eyes, even though the orders were dropped off and scanned within her processing times. Since I have received more than one message this month where “shipping late” seems to be the major issue, I am convinced this is now a large risk factor for being suspended, even if the shops do likely need other minor anomalies to get removed. Remember, Heather’s shop had Star Seller status at the time she was closed; it’s not as if she was doing tons of things wrong. 

So what does this mean? 

If I drop orders at UPS or Canada Post and they don’t scan them until the next day, does that mean Etsy closes my shop? 

What if you get into an accident after printing your shipping labels, so you can’t mail the day you said you would, just once? 

What happens when Etsy’s own systems make errors and say that tracked orders aren’t actually tracked? (Yes, that is happening.)

I sincerely think that Etsy’s automated systems have made a significant error here, which has taken away a major source of income from an innocent small business owner. Someone needs to review this case.

Mark this down as reason #5943 that you should never rely on an Etsy shop as your main income. 

Heather's own post on her Facebook page:

and

Please spread this story around so people can be aware of the risks of selling on Etsy.

[fangirlstitch]

If you’ve had trouble finding my “Life Finds a Way” Christmas Ornament on #Etsy, I accidentally had it tagged as #strangerthings, NOT #jurassicpark OOPS! FIXED! Here’s the link too: https://etsy.me/2NPGTpr #etsyfail #crossstitchersofinstagram #crossstitch #crossstitchpattern #etsy #etsyseller #etsystore #fangirlstitch #fangirl #geekgifts #shoplinkinbio #jeffgoldblum #lifefindsaway https://www.instagram.com/p/Bq8pfYKlezL/?utm_source=ig_tumblr_share&igshid=vzcnkvffs9gk

[orangepeelpaperie]

This weeks #etsydeposit lol! I guess we can't be epic every week!! I might frame this. #lol #lolz #fail #epicfail #etsyfail #mightframethis #cantwinemall #etsyseller #entrepreneur #entrepreneurlife #upsanddowns #makersgottamake #nevergiveup #neverquit #notgivingup #upcycled #everycentcounts #toofunny #timetohustle #hustleharder

[whittamore]

why i closed my etsy shop

i had a shop on etsy from 2006-2010. i wasn’t a big seller, it was just something fun to do. i didn’t have much invested so it was a no brainer when etsy started pulling all kinds of bullshit. i closed up rather than have my business name associated with…

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[indiscretion]

Etsy and KISSmetrics - What Do We Do Now????

If you don't know what the title of my blog post means, you'll want to look here: http://etsybitch.blogspot.com/2011/08/etsy-evil-to-core.html And PussDaddy Blogs: http://pussdaddyblogs.blogspot.com/2011/08/etsy-kissmetrics-translated-into-plain.html Many sellers and buyers are upset. I've been looking in the forums and basically from what I can discern, Etsy issued a statement saying they did not know what happened, and they removed Kissmetrics from the site. However, people are finding the rogue cookie on their computers. And it affects ANYONE who used/uses Etsy. The more the news gets out, I am sure those of us who sell on Etsy will see less traffic. Some of KISSmetric's lovely customers: http://www.kissmetrics.com/community Also, see this Wired article - http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/07/undeletable-cookie/ and http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/08/you-deleted-your-cookies-think-again/ posted by guschisantiquefinds. I'm no computer expert, but I'm just as paranoid as the next internet user. I thought I would pass on some suggestions for people to use on their computers if they want to try to remove the cookie. Apparently if you have an iPad, you are probably safe because it does not use Flash (thanks, Steve Jobs!). EDIT: I went to the KISSmetrics site on my iPad and it told me it was installed in my browser. YAY. The top four recommended in the forums (some work with Firefox - it is thought Firefox helps block the LSOs, etags in particular, but I don't know the whole story, but I use it anyway): Better Privacy https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/betterprivacy/ Ghostery http://www.ghostery.com/ AdBlock http://adblockplus.org/en/ CCleaner http://www.piriform.com/CCLEANER In addition, although I don't know if they will help with that particular cookie but are good to have: SpyBot: http://www.safer-networking.org/index2.html AdAware: http://www.lavasoft.com/ WOT: http://www.mywot.com/ NoScript: http://noscript.net/ Avast Antivirus: http://www.avast.com/free-antivirus-download Many computer savvy people have suggested these to me, and I use everything except Ghostery, which I haven't downloaded yet. I hope you find these links helpful, and give you some protection until we hear from Etsy as to what needs to happen next. Thanks to Maya of SWStitchery also wanted to add some information she got from McLoveBuddy in the Etsy forums: To opt out directly via Kissmetrics: http://www.kissmetrics.com/user-privacy "...the opt-out button will block Kissmetrics on all the sites that you visit that might still use Kissmetrics. It's not for companies. Kissmetric's statement regarding the opt-out for consumers: "As an additional step to respecting consumer privacy and providing additional tools for our customers, consumers can use the controls below to opt-out or opt-in of tracking b KISSmetrics across all KISSmetrics-enabled websites." Source: http://www.etsy.com/teams/7718/site-help/discuss//8793215/page/35 EDIT: I went to the KISSmetrics user-privacy site and found their opt-out button. Before I clicked it, the site told me my browser was helping them compile data, yada yada, and thanked me for it. No words to tell you how I feel about that. If you know of other trustworthy tools to add to this list, please share! Please email me at mara (at) indiscretion (dot) us if you are unable to post any additional information. Some people have not been able to comment and I am not sure why. Mara

[indiscretion]

Etsy and KISSmetrics - What Do We Do Now????

If you don't know what the title of my blog post means, you'll want to look here: http://etsybitch.blogspot.com/2011/08/etsy-evil-to-core.html And PussDaddy Blogs: http://pussdaddyblogs.blogspot.com/2011/08/etsy-kissmetrics-translated-into-plain.html Many sellers and buyers are upset. I've been looking in the forums and basically from what I can discern, Etsy issued a statement saying they did not know what happened, and they removed Kissmetrics from the site. However, people are finding the rogue cookie on their computers. And it affects ANYONE who used/uses Etsy. The more the news gets out, I am sure those of us who sell on Etsy will see less traffic. Some of KISSmetric's lovely customers: http://www.kissmetrics.com/community Also, see this Wired article - http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/07/undeletable-cookie/ and http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/08/you-deleted-your-cookies-think-again/ posted by guschisantiquefinds. I'm no computer expert, but I'm just as paranoid as the next internet user. I thought I would pass on some suggestions for people to use on their computers if they want to try to remove the cookie. Apparently if you have an iPad, you are probably safe because it does not use Flash (thanks, Steve Jobs!). EDIT: I went to the KISSmetrics site on my iPad and it told me it was installed in my browser. YAY. The top four recommended in the forums (some work with Firefox - it is thought Firefox helps block the LSOs, etags in particular, but I don't know the whole story, but I use it anyway): Better Privacy https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/betterprivacy/ Ghostery http://www.ghostery.com/ AdBlock http://adblockplus.org/en/ CCleaner http://www.piriform.com/CCLEANER In addition, although I don't know if they will help with that particular cookie but are good to have: SpyBot: http://www.safer-networking.org/index2.html AdAware: http://www.lavasoft.com/ WOT: http://www.mywot.com/ NoScript: http://noscript.net/ Avast Antivirus: http://www.avast.com/free-antivirus-download Many computer savvy people have suggested these to me, and I use everything except Ghostery, which I haven't downloaded yet. I hope you find these links helpful, and give you some protection until we hear from Etsy as to what needs to happen next. Thanks to Maya of SWStitchery also wanted to add some information she got from McLoveBuddy in the Etsy forums: To opt out directly via Kissmetrics: http://www.kissmetrics.com/user-privacy "...the opt-out button will block Kissmetrics on all the sites that you visit that might still use Kissmetrics. It's not for companies. Kissmetric's statement regarding the opt-out for consumers: "As an additional step to respecting consumer privacy and providing additional tools for our customers, consumers can use the controls below to opt-out or opt-in of tracking b KISSmetrics across all KISSmetrics-enabled websites." Source: http://www.etsy.com/teams/7718/site-help/discuss//8793215/page/35 EDIT: I went to the KISSmetrics user-privacy site and found their opt-out button. Before I clicked it, the site told me my browser was helping them compile data, yada yada, and thanked me for it. No words to tell you how I feel about that. If you know of other trustworthy tools to add to this list, please share! Please email me at mara (at) indiscretion (dot) us if you are unable to post any additional information. Some people have not been able to comment and I am not sure why. Mara