#evaar'ade

[evaarade]

"New Mandalorians Didn't Wear Armour"

Babes,,,, they wore pieces of their armour. Maybe not FULL armour but certainly pieces of it, at least towards the end. So like. The idea that they didn't have it??? Or that Satine somehow took it away???? Or that denied/made it difficult for them to get access to it????? Doesn't seem to hold any water if we have people wearing bits and pieces, not to this degree of people and not as openly as literally in a protest in front of Satine herself at least.

And yes, I mess a bit with brightness and saturation to see better.

[blueberry-ry]

hello, anything about the various clans insignia/emblems and such???

Ok ehm I really wanted to add more stuff to this but! I’m too lazy… soooooooo:

Have me trying to come up with some New Mandalorians insignia for (some) of the different currents in their ideology

They are like a 700 years old movement, they must have had some different ideas and inside groups over those centuries lol

Some facts about these ones:

The first one comes from one of the flowers on the throne in Sundari we see in TCW - it is also the symbol that symbolizes the New Mandalorian movement as a whole and is the first insignia created by them

The second one is a Ky'desla (mandalorian butterfly/moth) - it's a symbol of both death and peace

The third one is a spiral, bc spirals are, ehm, cool

The fourth one is a lily (like the ones Satine wears)

The fifth one has Mythosaur tusks, this group is one that believes heavely in self defence

The last one is a, let's call it mandalorian shaolin spade (og idea from @ranahan) - the founders of this particular movement were mostly farmers and in the present their objective is mostly to find ways to restore Mandalore's ecosystem (destroyed by the civil war)

Also, they are all circle shaped bc I like the idea of the first New Mandos wearing them on some sort of small "amulet", and then the round shape just remained as a tradition followed by all modern New mandos

[evaarade]

I have to say, today what annoys me the most rn is the fact that fans KEEP insisting that Death Watch was oppressed by being exiled to the moon

they were TERRORISTS!

the moon was still WAYS OFF BETTER THAN IN MANDALORE THE TOXIC DESERT! (and if you go with lower canon, they still had agriculture and helped Mandalore sustain itself! the moon still looked okay after the civil war even if the forests were nearly decimated!)

we know from Rebels and lower canon that THEY WEREN'T STUCK TO THE MOON AND COULD GO OUT TO LIVE IN OTHER PLANETS! You want more proof? How about a dude that bombed Sundari was tracked down to Concordia! As in! He left Concordia! And there's no mention of that being a crime!

they had NOBLE TITLES (hello Princess Bo-Katan and confirmed-to-have-been-in-the-throne-room-when-Pre-Vizsla-died Countess Ursa!)!

They were autonomous and Satine let them do whatever they wanted! Since they had their own governor, were a province and Satine seemed to have ZERO IDEA what was happening inside!

We know they weren't kicked out because of warrior traditions SINCE IT'S CLEAR THAT THE NEW MANDALORIANS STILL HAD THEM (the kids still fought, they still had guards, they still had the protectors, they still wore bits of armour)!

If you like the RPG books, then let me tell you that NOT EVERY WARRIOR BECAME A DEATH WATCH AND WERE CHILL DOING LIVING THEIR LIVES AND IGNORING SATINE AND NEW MANDALORIANS!

Going even more into lower canon - the ones confrimed to have been exiled were, and wait for it.... a small number of traditionalists who refused to give up power after apeace movement (aka New Mandalorians) became popular enough to start demanding a stop to wars and essentially things that did not benefit the majority of the population! They were literally just an exiled high-ranking people who were STILL allowed to operate in a moon nearby!

Anyway tldr: stop giving a sad backstory to a group of people who were happy with burning villages, murder, enslaving people, working with crime syndicates to take back Mandalore because they knew they did not have the support of the majority of the population! there's no reason to do that and basically no support for it in canon imo.

Especially when that group of people is low-key implied to be rich dudes who threw a fit at no longer being allowed to do whatever they want (read: pillage, wage war, murder and enslave people) without consequences.

[evaarade]

"Satine saying that the Warriors, who were exiled, died out and only now that the trees were growing again shows that they were oppressed/put in a position where they had no chance of survival"

Ehhhhh only in the worst of the worst of assumptions and ignoring semi-canon pieces of information.

Let's go by bits. Here's what we are told in TCW:

In the episode we are told that 1, the warriors were exiled and are assumed dead (this was said by Almec), 2, that the trees were only now growing back (and this is said by Satine), 3, Concordia is mostly independent of the control of the New Mandalorian Government (again, Satine/implied), 4, there was still enough population in the moon to justify having a Governor and finally, 5, that there are still warriors. Enough to justify mass production of armour.

In the next episode, we learn that the reason this whole thing happened was because of a civil war that killed over 50% of the mandalorians, with the warrior's losing.

From this alone, we can interpret many ways: from a "Concordia was in a bad state, but not as bad as Mandalore's, and that the warriors were exiled there didn't survive (or some significant number didn't) while the other population somehow did.", edit or a most likely knowing the shit that Death Watch does "Concordia was in a rough state but the warriors were barely affected, if affected at all and the claim that they died out was to cover their tracks and make Satine seem worse" to a horrible "Concordia was in a terrible state and the warriors were stuck there with nowhere else to go or help from Mandalore, died from the lack of resources and very few people, non-warriors, were still living there."

From that alone, and what we know, I think it's... weird to assume it's the later option and not the first? Because we have zero indication that Satine, who comforted a dying terrorist, would let that happen or wouldn't mention it to Obi-Wan in a sad way if she was forced to do it by the Mandalorian population. So like. Sure, headcanon that way, but be aware that from TCW alone, and the fact that the warriors are still very much alive and very much a group that is willing to lie, kill, enslave, etc it's... weird to assume the worst of the New Mandos? Why not assume that the New Mandalorians were given faulty information?

All this is without the other sources beyond TCW. Like, for example, the Fact Files from 2014, that (in number 38) tell us that Pre worked to gain Satine's trust, even renouncing his clan's help and becoming the Governor of Concordia (which again, Concordia is a Province and mostly independent of the control of the New Mandalorian Government, though How he became the Gorvernor I feel can get muddy, because while the same fact file implies that Satine possibly appointed him, I also feel like Satine is too respectful of the independence of the moon and the power of the people that another possible interpretation is that she supported Pre's campaign to become the Governor and that was what sold the population even if Pre wasn't that popular between them) and, throwing in another magazine - Star Wars Build The Millennium Falcon issue 68 - we also learn that the traditionalists that were exiled kept fighting in the moon until Pre got them working all together under him.

This very much means that there are Other reasons for why the statement was said - that they were aware of infighting continuing by the warrior clans and once it calmed down assumed the worst once they didn't hear anything. In my honest opinion, Pre probably took advantage off this to hide his warriors - who will keep an eye on warrior clans to make sure they aren't starting things if people think they are dead? And why would people doubt him? He had renounced his clan and was a trusted ally of Satine after all!

Let's throw in even other sources - in another Fact File from 2014, this one issue 98, we are told that Concordia was still producing enough to sustain Mandalore when needed and, in the Build The Millenium Falcon 68, we find out that Concordia wasn't that affected from the civil war overall, so we can immediately say that whoever was banished to Concordia had a Bigger Chance of survival from resources alone than those in Mandalore (that was a literal toxic desert). AND MORE, in other sources (the Age Of Rebellion core book + Rebels) shows that the Traditionalists were not forced to live solely in Concordia, in fact that had Everywhere Else in the Mandalorian sector to live in except in Mandalore.

They weren't poor woobies who revolted because they were treated badly and were taken advantage of by an extremist group, no! They are said to be a minority of traditionalists who were kicked out for refusing to give up power or Actually listen to the majority people! (issue 98 of the fact files from 2014) Those were the people who were kicked out! Not random farmers! People who wer find out had titles of nobility (Princess, countess)! And had governmental power!

So, in conclusion, while with only TCW you could theoretically make a bad faith assumption that the New Mandalorians caused the death of the Traditionalists, if you use other sources you have more and more indication that the New Mandalorians merely banished the traditionalists from Mandalore and that they had a much better chance of survival as well as power over their own fate than people give them credit for.

[evaarade]

More New Mando Armour

+ similarities that I noticed

Continuing from my previous post about New Mandalorians ACTUALLY wearing pieces of armour, I went off the deep end trying to find more hints of it WITHOUT having to go through all the episodes

Okay so, first of all - armour bits! Mostly gauntlets and protections in the legs.

Now to similarities! Sabine's Karta Beskar seems to be in the clothes that Soniee and Lagos wore when they went to help rescue Satine, although inverted!

(also can we talk about their probably armoured corset-like thingy? or why they thought that was a better option than MORE ARMOUR!? did they forget it at home or something?)

Following designs in armours appearing in clothing (beyond, y'know the ones we see in basic new mando clothing, gauntlet like things, leg covers, boots that look like have armour and make me wonder if Almec is actually wearing armoured boots or not the whole time...), we have something else: The earpieces that Royal Cadets use seems to me similar enough to the antenna and (probably?) commlink - or earcover? Whatever - to assume they were at least inspired by it.

The Bo-Katan and Koska image is from Doctor Aphra (2020) #19

Yet another thing I noticed (but this time doesn't have anything to do with armour) - Satine wears the same boots as some cadets!

EDIT: removed the cadet lagos bit (pretty sure that she is only wear armour on her feet, I think the possible-vambrace was a piece of fabric) to make up for it, have a picture that I'm pretty sure has Almec wearing armour on his boots - or at least padded boots.

[evaarade]

Why "Mandalorians didn't want to change, Satine merely forced them to" is a Lie

Here's the thing, we are told that the majority of the people wanted the change and were New Mandalorians, we are told that the only people who weren't were a small minority that had been exiled for causing a damaging war on the planet and population

And it was That minority that kick started Mandalore falling, that brought wars back to Mandalore, that took over via trickery and deception because the majority were Happy with Satine so the only way that said minority could take over was by making her seem incompetent and convinced the population of exactly that

Mandalore was a tragedy in the Clone wars because people WANTED to change, they were HAPPY with the change that Satine brought, but because an Extremist Minority didn't like it so they all Suffered

George Lucas said that the Prequels were a story about how a democracy fell, and I see The Clone Wars Mandalorians as another chapter of that, but this time it wasn't because of the civilian inaction, it was because while the people did Everything Right, they suffered under things out of their control and an Extremist Minority used propaganda and staged attacks to take over at the first chance they had.

[evaarade]

An example of Contradictions

Fandom: Everyone who was a Mandalorian was a Warrior! Even if they didn't practice it full time! No Exceptions ! Me: Oh, cool! So the Mandalorian Warriors are no longer an elite minority? So we can add more of Satine being supported by fellow warriors even more! And this is even better to support the fact that Satine didn't ban armour since the Protectors have it along with Almec and the Guard, mando'a since we see it written all over and even hear Satine speak it or even fighting since we can see the cadets fighting and we can even tell that she was well liked since Death Watch was less than one percent of Mandalore's population and had to get help from outside the sector to take over- Fandom: No! Satine is not a Mandalorian! She banned EVERYTHING traditional and was oppressing the warriors (who we imply are a minority) along with her idiot coloniser "New Mandalorians"! They are outsiders that took over when Mandalore and the Mandalorians were recovering from the civil war! Me: But you just said- What do you mean that they aren't Mandalorians??? Fandom: They are from Kalevala! They aren't from Mandalore! They are outsiders! Me: sINCE WHEN IS NOT KALEVALA IN THE MANDALORIAN SPACE AND SECTOR, LET ALONE IN THE SYSTEM?????? And what does their place of birth matter anyways???? I thought that Mandalorians don't care about that???? What, are Sabine, Jango and Din no longer mandalorians? Fandom: No!!!! They are Mandalorians, doesn't matter where they were born!!!! Me: But you just said-

[evaarade]

New Mandalorians ARE the Canon Version of the True Mandalorians

Ok so, a long time coming but here's the gist:

I truly think that the New mandalorians are, to canon, what the True Mandalorians are to fanon.

Yes fanon, not Legends Canon because they aren't as good as people make them out to be in, you guess it, fanon.

Let's get on with it.

To start, let's established what I mean with Fanon True Mandalorians and Canon New Mandalorians.

New Mandalorians are show to:

Want to move on from their Imperialistic History

Not erasing any history (see: murals in the city) nor the language (see: the mando'a all over the city, in the Academy and Satine openly speaking it) nor even their warrior traditions (see: kids still knowing how to fight)

Seem to be the majority of the population, composed by a big mile by Non-Warrior AKA the majority of the population even before the civil war.

Are hated by the Death Watch

Are the middle ground

Want and Do focus on the non-warrior traditions and elite (after centuries of it being the focus on their sector), but not to the extreme of banning all warriors (see: The Mandalorian guard, the Protectors - who are lead by Fenn Rau) instead possibly asking the Warriors who Refused to back down to not start shit in return of having the least damaged planet/moon aka Concordia

Are trying to make Mandalore and it's people Better

Those outside of the Royal Guard and the police don't seem to wear armour, though those seem to not be the bounty hunting version of it and those who Don't wear it certainly seem to use clothes with the beskar heart - the Kar'ta Beskar - in them

Follow a more progressive type of government - out from the Warrior's Elite control and more into the non-warrior population (aka the majority of the population)

Don't seem to have problems calling non-warriors Mandalorians as long as they meet a certain criteria

The Fanon True Mandalorians, meanwhile (from what I could gather from fanfictions):

Warrior Focused but out of necessity because of the Civil War, but don't seem to want to focus All on the warriors

Are Hated by the Death Watch

Are the middle ground

Care about their culture

Don't seem interested in going imperialists

Are trying to make Mandalore and it's people Better

Wear Armour even outside of battle

Don't seem to be the majority of the population - fanon varies between them being a minority or being a big part of the population (or at least, the minority with the support of non-warriors)

Follow a more traditional Mandalorian Government

Don't seem to have problems calling non-warriors Mandalorians as long as they meet a certain criteria

From these, we can that they ARE similar, and if we go further into semi-canon (which is iffy but we are handling fanon while talking about canon, so I will allow it) we do know that the New Mandalorians and True Mandalorians were at least relatively neutral towards each other, imagine if the True Mandalorians were their fanon self? They would get along way better!

But that's not the point of this post, the point is to show how the New Mandalorians are the Canon Version of the True Mandalorians with a few tweaks - which I do think I already proved from the points alone.

Out of the 10 points I spoke about, 6 they immediately agree on (even if on the last points they need to have a conversation on what their mutual criteria would be), with the first and seventh point being an half point since they are in a civil war and seem to be part of warrior clans, and we were not shown any of the warrior clans in the New Mandalorians outside of Satine, a Pacifist that leads by example (hence not using her armour, especially because she might have trauma related to it), Korkie, a child that may very well not see the point to when everyone doesn't wear it + there is peace (maybe he only used it from traditional celebrations), and Almec, who doesn't wear the armour until there's a civil war again.

Either way, summed up it's 6 points out of 10 that they agree on, more than half.

The New Mandalorians could simply be the True Mandalorians but evolved post war, or, as I suggested in the start of the post, they ARE the Canon Version of the True Mandalorians.

Simply because they weren't wearing armour at all times or fighting or part of the War, people threw them under the bus as 'genocidal colonizers' (even though nothing in canon suggests otherwise, if anything it suggests the opposite).

Personal Thoughts: The Canon New Mandalorians and the Fanon True Mandalorians are a LOT more alike than people think and it's sad that all they can seem to write is 'New Mandalorians Bad, True Mandalorians the BEST EVER'.