VIKTOR THEY'LL NEVER MAKE ME HATE YOU. VIKTOR YOU ARE SO SWEET AND KIND AND SMART. i wish we got to see where viktor lived i want to see his parents and the people he knew. i want to see his childhood home NOW!!!!!!!!!!!! i want to see mama viktor!!! i want to see the inevitable parallels between her and ximena!!! i want to see how viktor reacts to ximena as well. them saying he belonged in piltover is making me CRY!!! ALMOST NOBODY UNDERSTOOD HIM!!! THEY JUST USED HIM AND TOOK AWAY HIS CREDIT!!!!!! how many times do you think viktor was contemplating what he was worth. or if he really belonged there. or if he DID belong there and this was just his role in this story forever. get behind me viktor i'll protect you. i wonder how big his community in zaun was. do you think singed heard about him getting admitted into piltover. the parallels............. singed was discarded from being one of piltover's top scientists and now viktor is doing the opposite. maybe he thought it's like a self fulfilling prophecy. it's like a crystal ball. i also desperately want to see the contraption that viktor made!!!!!!!! i want to see viktor (and jayce. question mark) going back to his old home and seeing his parents. did he say hello to them when he went to visit singed. i'm losing my mind
also that part from the AMA where they say jayce knew he would never let viktor die...... he forgave himself for that alone....................... i can't even write a paragraph on that right now. ALL THE THINGS JAYCE HAS DONE THAT HE HATES HIMSELF FOR. BUT HE FORGIVES HIMSELF FOR THIS. I'M GOING INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUAUGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHAARGHEUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGUUGAUGUGAGAGGGGAUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥
for me, kindness is not enough for luo bingge to love someone. you aim to tell me that not a single one of his wives were kind to him even once? that ning yingying wasn’t kind to him on qing jing? you’d have better luck trying to convince a brick wall to fly.
what he wanted was love from a person he admired, i think. be it a teacher or a senior, but someone he respected in a place of authority higher than himself.
and in the extras, he viewed women as conquest—as collectibles—and traditional symbols of power in a highly hierarchical patriarchal society. his mind broke on the concept of bingqiu’s monogamy because to him, amassing as many admirers as possible was almost like being loved by someone you want to love you, but better because it was more. because it was what was expected of you as the emperor—the highest authority in the realms.
it’s the failed idea that what fulfills is powerlust and revenge, that when you achieve the masculine ideal, the hole in your chest will be filled. it’s an idea that’s so wrong that being confronted by it immediately causes him to rethink his entire existence at that point—and how lonely it makes him feel, and he leaves, not because he’s forced out, but because he knows that taking away another binghe’s kind shizun wouldn’t make him any less lonely.
he doesn’t want just kindness. if he has to force it, or if someone forces themselves to be kind to him knowing his status or power, it’s basically worthless in his eyes. and in the world he came from, there’s no one alive with greater status than him. there wasn’t allowed to be. no one he can admire, not even his own reflection.
which is why i think, unintentionally, for him to accept that someone loves him, they needed to begin on unequal footing. someone with the power to choose to refuse him, and in pidw, the universe bent to his will, preventing anyone who once or will ever refuse him from surviving for very long. and in equal measure, that they could actually refuse him and actively choose to accept him instead, then he would be able to be satisfied.
(if you aren’t interested in bingfan, particularly the flavor in which it’s bingge, here’s where you can stop reading lmao)
i don’t think bingge could fall in love with shen jiu. no hate to the original lbh and original sqq shippers, but it’s astoundingly unlikely imo that he would want to associate with that man.
several degrees lower, i’m gonna be supremely biased and delulu, but ming fan’s list of crimes is a lot smaller by comparison. by virtue of being sqq’s head disciple and the unfortunate victim of the bully trope who gets killed horribly in revenge (a death i find to be a prime example of bingge taking it way too far btw), he is infinitely closer to being redeemable.
reminder that shen jiu literally whipped this kid for no reason. you’re telling me a child abuser like him would ever come around to the child that he whipped? idk. be for real. beyond corporal punishment and sabotaging his cultivation, he literally wanted this child dead. but ming fan was two years luo binghe’s senior. he was a classic bully, but he wasn’t a child abuser, and he had a greater capacity for change.
at times like these i WISH i had a copy of proud immortal demon way. what were ming fan and luo binghe’s interactions in airplane’s canon? what exactly did he do to him? of course the things he did to bingge were fucked, but he was sixteen, and the person he looked to for guidance in all things abused children out of jealousy and a need to sabotage others—especially ones he saw himself in. shen jiu’s need for self-destruction manifested as abuse, but it’s still abuse, and he taught his head disciple what kind of treatment his shidi should receive.
i am the ming fan apologist for a reason. luo binghe was a kid. he was also a kid. does that make everything ming fan did okay? absolutely not. he has to atone first. and luo binghe doesn’t have to accept it if he doesn’t want to. does that even need to be said?
but wouldn’t it be tragic if, later, when bingge came to raze cang qiong to the ground after returning from the endless abyss, after taking shen jiu, ming fan had to take up his shizun’s mantle and regretted his actions? if they confronted each other, with one side feeling regret, but the other too lost in revenge and grief that it didnt matter?
and if, however many years after, bingge returned from another world and remembered his da-shixiong’s regret… how would he feel about it, then?
i was considering making a new blog for the express purpose of posting my unhinged rants in response to things that people have said/done to me but you know what this is my blog and i can do it here.
what she says: i'm fine.
what she means:
i think most people who have met me and know about my family are to some extent extremely bewildered that i could be related to them at all. my therapist, my psychiatrist, and one of my closest friends have all made similar remarks before and honestly sometimes i wish i wasn't this way that i am because it might just be better to live in peace with the complete insanity that they perpetuate.
i've mentioned my mother a number of times here but i don't think people truly understand how bad it is. nor should they because i don't pay them to listen to my trauma but anyway, my mum is so out of touch of reality. she lives in this weird misogynistic and antiquated world that causes our views to clash constantly. only that i don't tell her because it's less frustrating than trying to argue with her.
a few weeks ago, she mentioned off hand that it's unreasonable for women to expect or want a good-looking partner and that they should settle for average, and that it's best in the long run because more attractive men are more likely to cheat. which made me...just so...not even angry but just defeated, like imagine thinking that you don't deserve a partner that you find physically attractive? based on some misplaced belief, that seems more like an afterthought, not gonna lie, that good-looking people are prone to cheating, which is not even remotely true and i don't even know how to explain to her that ugly men are extremely capable of being unfaithful lol. and for what? because people should be married for their life to be complete?
which brings me to my next point - naturally, following marriage, a (heterosexual) couple must have kids, right? (extremely infuriating take btw) last week, my brother was talking about how quite a few married couples that he knows do not have children. and my mother's immediate response? "they're selfish." ???????? dear god i wanted to stab myself there but i held my tongue because, again, no point arguing with her. there are so many reasons why people don't want to have kids - finances, risk of passing on genetically-predisposed conditions, be it mental or physical, generational trauma, overpopulation, climate change, the capitalistic hellspace that we live in etc. it's not because they're selfish, ffs.
in fact, for argument's sake, if the opposite of not wanting children is actively wanting and trying to have kids, is that not intrinsically self-serving instead? people actively trying to have kids because they want a kid is a want, not a need, regardless of the reason. carrying on the family name (??? never understood this), continuing their legacy (lmao what legacy*), saying that they love kids (if you love kids, there are plenty of other kids that need a good family), and having the fulfilling experience of raising children (again, why does it have to be your genetic offspring?) are all motivated by the potential parent's interests. the counter argument to this is that being a parent requires a lot of sacrifices and work and ultimately good parenting requires a degree of selflessness. yet, this is a consequence of wanting a child. the desire to have a child is what comes first. you cannot be selfless for a child that does not exist yet. (also if anyone says that having their own children "gave them purpose/meaning", imo, most of the time, they don't need a child of their own - they need a therapist...)
more extreme criticism of child free people would be that without children, the human race would go extinct. which is baffling to me because extinction is a facet of life - reproduce and evolve, or die. the earth is billions of years old and has gone through multiple mass extinction events (we are in our 6th...no thanks to humanity's "achievements"). i would even say that humans would probably be more likely to have a hand in their own extinction via total nuclear devastation or climate change, so having more people will not prevent humans from being extinct, but might accelerate it, along with the decimation of countless other species (this one i actually lament because humans have altered the earth in such a drastically short period of time that most species are just incapable of adapting and evolving that quickly because they were so specialised in the ecological niches that they occupied over thousands and millions of years), for the latter. not saying that human extinction will definitely solve all the problems that the scourge that humanity has caused in the last few hundred years but there will surely be benefits (no more clearing of natural habitats to farm food for the enormous population, no more dumping of millions of tonnes of trash into the ocean, no more mass consumption of fossil fuels etc).
back to my family's craziness. i shared this in a Discord server yesterday about how different my brother and i are in terms of our religious beliefs. i was raised in a strict conservative christian household, and my parents and brother are very religious. i truly resent that because there is no room for questioning. i want to preface this by mentioning that i've always had a tenuous relationship with religion. it was probably when i was about 5-6 years old and picked up a book about dinosaurs and prehistoric animals and was like ???? okay where were the dinosaurs on Noah's ark? and no one could answer me in a way that i could accept. and i hated going church since i was a kid - i would have rather stayed home and watch cartoons or read books. this has been my baseline and always has been. my parents want to blame it on the music i listen to or whatever. i really can't change their mind - perhaps it brings them comfort in a way that it's some external evil that made me like this, and it isn't technically my fault or theirs even. going back to dinosaurs - the fossil record and mantle core samples cemented this belief in evolution for me because it's tangible, physical evidence, and as a result i cannot believe that the earth was created some thousand years ago and humans were just...made. that and i've had preachers in the church say with 100% certainty that "women have more ribs than men because God took a rib from Adam to create Eve". i'm not even joking.
my brother on the other hand, is exactly the type of christian to say, and i quote almost verbatim, "that climate change doesn't matter because Jesus will come back in [my] lifetime, and the world will end and the sinners will have to pay." which is utterly baseless and not to mention downright blasphemous lol ??????? according to the bible, no one knows the hour of Jesus' second coming, not even himself, but the Father (Matthew 24:35-37). so it's a bold claim to make and actually directly contradicts the bible? i mean he's definitely not the only one - so many people i know from church who would confidently declare that the End Times are coming. bitch how do you know, what makes you so special that you have this knowledge but Jesus himself does not. also pretty sure that people have been prophesing about the End Times for centuries by now. yet here we are.
i don't even want to talk about my father. maybe i will a little. long story short, he thinks being a doctor is easy. imagine that. he has never worked in a healthcare setting for a single day of his life, and he is telling me that my job is easy. he tells me this every few months too, when i'm really overwhelmed with the job. he says shit that is completely bonkers like, "if i were you, i will just not let it affect me." this is coming from a man who gets so upset when people so much as flash the high beam or beep their horn at him when driving. try having a difficult patient and their family member stuck in your consult room for like 30 minutes. he is devoid of empathy, then has the audacity to be offended because i hardly share my problems with my parents - never more emotionally-charged ones like relationship problems. usually just work inconveniences.
like why the fuck would i when i feel like no one in the bloody house can ever have a rational discussion without it just exploding into a shouting match involving religion, guilt tripping and gaslighting.
* i just need to point out that this is also such bullshit. like, mathematically, in 7 generations, the amount of DNA that that was yours that exists in your descendants is less than 1% (1/2^7 = 0.78%) (yes blah blah mitochondrial DNA exists but you get my drift). assuming every generation is 20-30 years, your """"legacy"""" is negligible in about 2 centuries, which is such a tiny blip in the grand scheme of things that it is absolutely inconsequential. also legacy is more than DNA, just saying. Jane Austen, famously childless, is still celebrated for her work 200 years after her death.
I jokingly say to people, "Oh it's weird that the aromantic is writing a story in which one of the main themes is the transformative power of love," in reference to GodSoul, my current mega-project. In a lot of ways, however, I feel weirdly qualified to discuss this. I feel like when an audience hears about a story based on love, they immediately think of romance. While romance is present in GodSoul (in the form of Sean and Jacques), it's a story about why love and empathy are IMPORTANT, not why romance is great.
The other major example of love (that I can comfortably explain right now without majorly spoiling what I consider to be my magnum opus), is the dynamic between Alicia and Miranda. They are friends, and they remain friends throughout the entirety of the story. The love they share, however, platonic as it may be, is treated as importantly as the love between Sean and Jacques.
And this is why, as an aromantic person, who naturally views love very differently than an alloromantic (and there's nothing wrong with how you all view love! You've all written some of my favorite stories of all time!), is comfortable writing a story that's based on the power of love. I don't view one form of love to be more serious than others, and I've established incredibly close, romance-like relationships with people that have absolutely zero romantic intentions behind it.
Ultimately, the whole reason I'm making this post is to mention that I think love is far more textured than the purely-romantic relationships I see a lot in stories. There's so many different kinds of love, and they're all expressed in so many different ways, and I'm glad I can see that without my view being clouded BY that romantic-fervor that tons of people seem to be wrapped up in.
It’s making my dad into a complete moron by hiding the facts from him. It’s bullshit. It ignores actual history on a channel that is supposed to be about history. It’s also kind of racist with how it often seems to imply that certain groups of people were not intelligent enough to construct massive ancient monuments and therefore it must’ve been a bunch of bug-eyed gray fuckfaces who did it. Aliens didn’t kill the fucking dinosaurs. Aliens did not create the weather. The great pyramid of Giza is a tomb that got fucking robbed. THE AMOUNT OF BULLSHIT THIS SHOW SPEWS MAKES ME IRRATIONALLY ANGRY. I want to go up to that crazy haired shit excuse for a scientist and shave off all his stupid hair with a sheep shearing thing. He is brainwashing gullible people like my father to become moronic idiots who can’t understand the concept of Occam’s razor. Ancient Aliens has been debunked multiple times by multiple people and yet they still get airtime on a channel that is supposed to be a credible source of information. Can we petition to get this show canceled and publicly debunked by the morons on it? Please? Good God, History Channel has basically become the 4Chan of television. Fooling gullible people who will believe anything, and seemingly 80% of the content has something to do with Hitler. History Channel is a fraud and the people running it should be ashamed of themselves. They weren’t always like this. They used to air actually good content. Can’t I just get one day without even a mention that Ancient Aliens is a show that exists and instead watch some Modern Marvels episodes on engineering disasters, please? Like, why even bother with the history moniker anymore? Call it “Conspiracy channel”! That way it at least isn’t false advertising. Seriously, though, this show can go die in a hole.
The new HBO show + some mutuals have me thinking about HDM again and gang there's some wild implications there that are never really addressed
For one thing, it seems fairly self-evident that there aren't any dæmons that are humans, but where is the line drawn? Miss Coulter's dæmon is a monkey so clearly primates are possible, so there's no reason why someone couldn't have an ape dæmon
BUT the only real difference between humans and other apes is mental faculties and hairiness, and dæmons are already sapient, so why couldn't someone have a human as their dæmon? There doesn't really seem to be a major leap of logic there but the implications are WACK because except for the distance limitations, dæmons have basically complete autonomy, so could a human dæmon get a job or attend school? Probably not, since both humans and dæmons seem to be able to distinguish a dæmon from a human on sight, but pretty wild nonetheless.
Also in La Belle Sauvage the protags meet a lady who's dæmon is a whole swarm of butterflies instead of a single entity which in conjunction with previous conclusions is even more wild. You can have just like 6 people. My dæmon is the cast of Friends
Forewarning from the start, this is a long rant that won’t be widely agreed with. I know there are many who loved the new seasons of POI and many who were happy with how it ended. I know that of the remaining fans I am in the minority. I know that I have been for a while now. I had long been venturing into the main POI tag to find praises of new characters, relationships and plots I could not like, and negative comments and expressions to ones I loved. I watched other fans jump for joy when the new season was announced when all I felt was dread. Yet never once did I spread negativity or leave hate for newer fans simply because they liked something I did not. I respected that their likes and opinions did not align with my own and ignored what I did not like or agree with. I ask that you grant me with that same respect now. Because I am not writing this to attack or upset. I am writing it because I myself feel upset and angry and need to express why in words. And to connect with others who may feel the same. If you cannot respect that or it upsets you to read anything negative about POI’s newer seasons, characters, and how it ended I ask that you don’t read any further. If you do proceed remember that what I’m writing is neither right nor wrong or meant to attack but simply an expression of my own OPINION and feelings. Thank you, and proceed at your own risk. SPOILERS, obviously.
I started watching POI right from the very first day. Right from the very first day it aired on TV in 2011. Over the course of two seasons I gradually fell in love with its intriguing premise; its intelligent and realistic plots; its dry, witty humor; its complex, damaged characters and their relationships; and its overall tact, subtle dynamic, atmosphere and themes.
Starting with season 3 it began to lose much of what I loved. I remember feeling right from the very first episode of S3 that it had lost something, even before the Samaritan plot. Overall the writing grew sloppy, it lost much of its original sophistication, dynamic, and premise, and, most frustrating of all, the drastic deterioration and inconstancy in the writing of its original main characters, particularly Reese & Finch. nafanya-a-a and managerie76 have already detailed much of what I was not happy with here, and here.
New character additions
With regards to Root & Shaw (beware reading on if you are a Root & Shaw fan), one of the biggest issues I see is when adding new characters is they COMPLIMENT your current characters NOT steal function away from them. The reason the core 4 (Reese/Finch/Carter/Fusco) dynamic worked so well was just that: each character had their own unique qualities that contributed and played so well off each other. Root and Shaw were written in as characters that perform much of the same functions as Reese & Finch and that’s where the problem starts. Whether or not we like Root & Shaw’s characters in and of themself doesn’t matter but if they had been written to have completely unique roles in the story there never would have been any need or opportunity to downplay or sideline the original characters.
Maybe if Root and Shaw had been in a completely different show, not forced into a show they had no place in such that all previously formed character dynamics and themes had to be dismantled to include them, I would have felt differently about their characters. Though, maybe not because their characters typically appeal to a different kind of person than I am, that much has been clear. Nothing wrong with that but I do find it very unfair and resent the POI writers for bringing in one type of audience and then dropping them and moving to another. I have never been able to relate to the characters of Root or Shaw. Nor have I understood the ‘Shoot’ relationship. I loved the core 4 dynamics and the relationships formed, in particular the Reese & Finch friendship/dynamic, which has always been the heart of the show for me, but I have never been a ‘shipper’ so to speak of any romantic pairing. One of the things I’d loved about POI when I started watching was that there wasn’t any of the relationship drama I kept seeing on so many other shows.
Yeah, not so anymore.
Needless to say POI ended up going that route. It even got to the point where new people were shocked to learn that POI was not about Root & Shaw. Many viewers started watching just for Root & Shaw. The writers started catering more and more to their new audience, to their new characters, while their originals became an afterthought. And relationship drama aside, I could not like their characters or the way they were included. Inserting Shaw upset the entire Reese & Finch dynamic. And there was no way that it could not. To me the heart of the show had always been about two damaged individuals finding solace in each other and their shared purpose (whether or not the viewer choice to see it as friendship or ‘Rinch’). The most unlikely of partnerships. It was that partnership, that degree of isolation set from the concept of the two of them against the rest of the world with this unknown, enigmatic entity working behind them set a tone and atmosphere that really drew me. The addition of Shaw disrupted that atmosphere and also added redundancy to Reese’s character and role.
And then there’s Root, a character I strongly dislike for a number of reasons. Chiefly, I can never like characters who have done way too many horrific things and are then subsequently whitewashed into becoming heroes. I have never been ok with that, and I will never be ok with that. Root murdered and tortured numerous people for no good reason. She is not redeemable in my eyes. I know the view is that she changed, that it was character development where she developed into a good character. But I have two major issues. First, I cannot see it as realistic character development; people don’t change THAT much imo. Second, even if she could change that drastically that doesn’t mean what she did in the past can just be ignored/forgiven/forgotten. Root kidnapped, manipulated, and traumatized Finch and we’re just supposed to forget that? Reese and Finch are just suddenly ok with that and everything else she has done? The Finch/Root relationship in later seasons bothers me quite strongly and makes me very uncomfortable. Even if Root, for argument’s sake, Root became the nicest person on earth; we’ll say she developed into this nice or better person. There is still no way Finch (or Reese) could just forget what she did to him and be anything close to her friend. That’s completely unrealistic. I’ve been through some trauma myself and I find the idea of that quite offensive and disturbing. I find it quite disturbing that not only was what she did to him barely even acknowledged but the few times it was it was done so in a humorous manner, as if it was a joke. Similarly, I found the fandom itself taking it lightly, making jokes or comments on how Root had to kidnap/torture/tie up someone before becoming their friend, to be quite disturbing. I guess this also gives a bit of an indication as to why I could not understand the Root & Shaw relationship; in my eyes they barely knew each other before they became ‘the’ ‘ship.’ Their first scene, which seemed to be very popular for reasons I’ll never understand, was when Root was about to torture Shaw with an iron. Apparently that was the starting of a great relationship. Sorry, it’s just not my cup of tea, I guess.
Shift in style/tone
And what I found is as the popularity of Root & Shaw grew and the audience changed the show itself similarly changed in style and tone. Like with a kind of more ‘in your face’ approach as opposed to the more taciturn approach. There was less and less of the subtle, unspoken and gradual development of relationships and characters. It became more about sexual innuendos, the best ‘one-liners,’ and making characters look ‘cool’ and ‘BAMF,’ often at the expense of another character and at the expense of realism. It cheapened the show in my eyes. The humor on the show changed quite significantly and not to my taste. And it was funny because I would see people comment on how there was no humor without Root & Shaw, but I loved the delicate, dry, intelligent humor of S1 & S2, which they lost along with the essence of the original characters that had created it.
S3 - Overall
The deterioration and sidelining of the characters. This was the worst of all. But basically it all started in S3. It was very telling because we see Root is apparently graced with some kind of ‘connection’ to the machine, so not only was she graced with the same computer skills as Finch but she then gets to have something over him, which basically set the entire stage of Finch’s character being reduced to following Root around. His unique role and significance in the story was reduced, and there was no way it could not, with the skills and power she was given. It was like, well, she has his coding skills but he still has the edge because he built the machine, and we obviously can’t rob Finch of that and transfer it to Root, so instead we will give her this superior connection to the machine. I also despised that whole connection to the machine for other reasons but I’ll get back to that. So the stage was set for Root’s character and Finch’s diminished importance. Similarly for Reese, Shaw is inserted at the beginning of S3. Again, she is given the same skills as Reese and gets to steal part of his main functions, and he suddenly starts needing her help with things he never needed help with before. Next, it was very telling because the Samaritan plot was introduced there in S3 and Reese wasn’t even allowed to be a part of it. Well. That basically set the entire tone and stage for his character from that point onwards as well. He was constantly sidelined from the plot from that point onwards.
Now aside from the character issues there’s the overall writing quality and the plot itself. The writing quality obviously ties in to the character issues because this forced writing and favoritism of characters makes for some bad situations.
For example that whole thing at the beginning of S3 where Finch kept Root prisoner. As much as I dislike Root’s character I did not like that whole situation. It felt wrong on so many levels. Given the situation they created Finch pretty much made the only decision he could because according to the writer’s scenario Root was given the power of ‘God’ behind her and could break out of a psychiatric ward or any other facility. What I despised is the entire situation. If you write a disjoined character (Root) and connect that with an over the top plot, it follows that you are going to write your characters into a crappy situation. So here you have a ‘God almighty’ character who can apparently escape out of any situation, so what is Finch to do with her? Not much else he could do, I guess. But the whole situation stunk. So he had to lock her up. Ok, but how does that even work? So he was planning on keeping her locked in the library forever? How is that feasible? How did she even go to the bathroom? Have a shower? It’s a very icky situation, and I did not like it. Poor writing imo, and a clear attempt to force Root into the story. If anyone should have had a connection to the machine it should have been Finch, the creator.
The overall quality of the writing took a nose dive in S3. Detailed explanations on this have been given by managerie76 here and also by nafanya-a-a here. This is not to say that S1 & S2 were perfect and there were the beginnings of the problems in later seasons peaking in at the end of S2, but there were lines it did not cross and the core focus and atmosphere was maintained. From the first episode of S3 we see weaker plots with way more plot holes arise. The heart was missing somehow. That focus and care put into the ‘number’ of the week that made you feel something for each number and how they connected/drew something from the core characters and their relationships was absent. Episodes like ‘Lady Killer,’ which many new fans seemed to love, I could not understand. The plot was so weak with so many plot holes and felt like a forced fan service/humor attempt at pulling all the 'team’ together when they should not have all been needed. Again, too many characters and too much redundancy. And it makes the characters look idiotic. The whole HR plot became rushed and poorly managed in S3. They had clearly lost interest and wanted to hurry things along to their new character focus and AI plot. I was not a fan of Carter’s characterization and arc/sudden revenge mission. It did her character a huge disservice and felt all staged just so they could kill her off. They suddenly exaggerate her importance to other characters, completely destroying main themes of the entire show, just to make her death have more of an impact (which was completely unnecessary – Carter was loved by all, we didn’t need it unrealistically thrown in our faces before killing her in order for it to have an impact!). That’s horrible writing. I loved Carter and I loved her relationship with Reese, but I will never get over how they transferred ALL of Reese’s gratitude to Carter, not to mention Fusco’s as well. I could go on about that but I’m trying to stick to discussing overall writing and plot issues right now... But basically it was awful writing, made even more appalling by the fact that Nolan outwardly states his reason for killing her was “I need my Catwoman.” Well. If it wasn’t clear already, we have it openly admitted he no longer cared for the original characters. How about finishing the show then, Nolan, and starting a new one with your ‘Catwoman’?
Plot & Overall
Back to plot discussion. Now the common belief of newer fans is that the older fans don’t like the AI aspects, don’t ‘appreciate intelligent plots.’ Aside from the fact that this constant comment I kept seeing in varies forms is quite blatantly rude (just because someone else might not share your likes of a type of plot does not mean you need to insult their intelligence), it is also false. Many of us very much liked the AI and sci-fi aspects of the show. I did. The writers had some very clever and fascinating themes and concepts, they really did. I’ve even been writing a fan fiction that focuses on the AI aspects. My issues with the AI plot were with the way it was done. The writing itself was sloppy with numerous plot holes and they started to write the plot at the expense of their characters and many of the original themes and premise. I shall quote myself here from an earlier post (here) I made about what made me fall in love with the show:
What struck me most about the show, what truly made it unique to me, was the delicate, real, and tacit way of writing the characters and plots. Rather than just being your typical crime drama focusing on creating a complex plot of who did what and who can most stump the audience, POI created engaging plots that felt very real and worked to connect the audience with the characters and the ‘Person of Interest’. It didn’t try so hard to force crazy plots but rather made you feel something for its characters and subtly developed it over time. It also had such an interesting premise with the concept of surveillance and ‘The Machine,’ the response of the people to terrorist attacks, and the morality play.
Essentially all that changed. The very thing that had made POI unique to me was gone and it became like every other overly dramatized TV show in my eyes. Which was ironic because newer fans kept saying that S1 & S2 were boring and the new stuff was so unique and exciting. It was the opposite for me. Because the plot became too over the top, unrealistic, inconsistent with far too many plot holes, and it began to dominate everything else (characters, themes, premise etc.). When that happens it’s no longer exciting/suspenseful to me because I’m sitting there rolling my eyes throughout scenes and thinking, ‘come on! Really?’ Again, this is not to say S1 & S2 were without issues or plot holes, but they were never significant enough and did not mess with fundamental themes and characters.
I did not like the way the whole Samaritan plot was introduced. It was sudden and rushed and illogical. I mean, what are the chances that the other machine is built by Finch’s friend? Really? Artie and his AI appears and everyone is suddenly after him exactly after TM disappeared? TM is out of reach but we have another AI. Wow, how convenient is that? How did Finch’s Machine not know and not do anything about the Samaritan drives long before? The whole Samaritan arc felt very forced. Lethe and Aletheia were awful episodes. If I hadn’t known it already, I knew the show had become something else (and not something I was fond of) when Lethe happened. Essentially the writers overdid it with the Sc-fi component and it made POI way less realistic. They had some great ideas that could have worked well if only they had toned it down. The power of subtlety should never be underestimated. I had really loved how with POI it wasn’t like many of the silly, over the top man vs machine kind of Sci Fi that happens too often in fiction. The original vision and depiction of the machine working behind the scenes with just the right amount of enigma to keep you intrigued was excellent. The God mode scenario at the end of S2 I liked; it was neat without being too over the top. But then S3 happened and Root’s ‘connection’ to the machine. Yes, I’m back to that again. Aside from the character issues previously discussed, it did not feel realistic. It went a step too far on the plausibility spectrum in my eyes, and it only got worse from then on.
Which brings me to my next issue: the humanization of The Machine. This was a huge mistake. I hated it. Those scenes at the end of S4 with TM talking. That scene at the end of S4 with TM talking to Finch that apparently many people seemed to love had me rolling my eyes. ‘I will not suffer.’ Really?? Major overkill, and an obvious attempt to humanize an AI, give it emotions and feelings, and I’m not ok with that. It feels wrong, overly dramatized, and unrealistic. And from what I heard that humanization of TM only got further augmented and exaggerated in S5. And the funny thing is, from what I’ve heard from a tumblr friend, Nolan had originally said he didn’t want to humanize TM, that it had already happened too much in fiction and he wanted his show to be different, that giving it a voice wouldn’t serve their story well. That he wanted the show to be just 5 mins into the future. Why, oh, why hadn’t he stuck to that original vision? That was exactly what I had loved about it; that it didn’t go over the top. That was what had made it unique. The AI aspect was so much more powerful to me when it was more elusive. It gave that chilling mysteriousness of secrecy and intrigue, and felt more REAL. And then they decided to turn it into an inconstant soap opera. That’s what is felt like to me. A young adult dystopian soap opera.
And the move from a procedural to serialized. Many new fans say the procedural was boring and the serialized more exciting but seem to forget that this is a matter of opinion, and again I find it unfair for the writers to start writing it as one thing and then completely change it into something else. Isn’t the very fact that many of the new fans don’t much care for the older seasons while the opposite is most often true for original fans tell us something? The very existence of that divide is an indication of inconsistent writing. So even if you prefer the serialized plot and the addition of Root & Shaw (to each their own!) you should understand the frustration of older fans. If you consider the reverse to have happened; let’s say the show had started as an ‘exciting’ serialized show, and then it became a ‘boring’ procedural how would those new fans feel? Likewise, if the show had started out being about Root & Shaw and suddenly two new characters were introduced and given much of the same functions in the story, and downplaying Root & Shaw, would those new fans not have felt the same frustrations we feel? I think so. And anyway, from my view saying a procedural is boring is like saying all stand alone books are boring while book series’ are exciting. Well it would completely depend on the book or series, wouldn’t it? Same for procedural vs serialized shows. If the writing is done well in a procedural there is no reason it should be boring. POI’s first 2 seasons were well written with a great premise, atmosphere, and format that worked for a lot of people. We liked the format of solving a number or ‘Person of Interest’ each week. We liked the premise of (as Managerie76 summed up here) ‘every normal individual being relevant.’ We liked that there weren’t huge crazy plots that dragged on and on. We liked the focus on the characters and the POI each week. It was why we started watching it. I for one have enough sadness and stress in my real life that I don’t want to watch a doom and gloom ‘the machines are taking over the world’ and ‘everyone is going to die’ TV show. That was not what I signed up for. There are SO many dystopian YA movies/TV going on right now. If I’d wanted that I would have watched those, thank you very much. POI had been about the HUMANS and that everyone is worth saving, then suddenly it was about The AI’s and their war and making fancy plots with lots of shooting and ‘cool’ scenes. Heck, even the show’s name ‘Person of Interest’ no longer fit! It should have been renamed “Machine of Interest.’
You know, many people would comment that the old procedural format couldn’t continue because it was/would get old. I disagree. It only becomes dull when the writing of it makes it so. When the writers lose their edge, lose interest, then so does the show, at which point the writers likely do need to end the show, if they’ve lost interest. But instead of doing that the writers decided to move it somewhere else while dragging the older aspects and characters along but losing more and more of them as they went. See, at the start of S3 I would have agreed that the procedural/number of the week started to lose its edge but that was because the writers started to lose interest and it showed. Soon the number of the week episodes started being called ‘filler’ episodes, and as much as I hated that, it had become true; they HAD became like fillers but only because the writers started writing them that way. The thing is, they tried to still keep their number of the week idea as well as the original characters when they no longer fit and it created very disjointed and poor writing.
A perfect example of the poor writing we saw in S4 is that they would have two different story lines going on in the same episode that had absolutely no relation or significance with each other and the result was awful, particularly because they so obviously favored one plot over the other – the Samaritan ‘main plot’ because they made it so, and the number part being ‘filler.’ The episode Skip is a perfect example. Ignoring the major character writing issues with this episode for now because I’ll get to that later. Plot number one we have Finch about to die, for heaven’s sake, and plot number 2 we have a very week number format plot to keep Reese busy. Gee, well, Finch is about to die, but let’s break and go back to Reese’s number plot which the audience is going to be so interested to watch while they think Finch is dying. Sorry for the sarcasm, but, I mean, really?? Is it any wonder people stopped caring about Reese and the number of the week format? Reese and the number became filler because the writers started writing them that way!! For heaven’s sake, Reese is my favorite character and even I couldn’t care less about his plot with the number, when FINCH IS DYING?? And for the love of god, when did Reese and Finch become so separated that I am calling them ‘Finch’s plot’ and ‘Reese’s plot?? And WHEN would Finch of S1 & S2 EVER be in such a dire situation without Reese even KNOWING about it???! And I haven’t even touched on the ridiculousness of that situation between Finch and Root in the first place! Another example is when Reese and Root are out running around looking for Shaw and we have another secondary plot of no relation going on with Fusco and Silva. Really?? In this case it’s Fusco being sidelined. You think anyone watching is going to much care about his plot with the possibility of finding out what happened to Shaw hanging on the other end? The writing is so disjoined it’s awful!
And another thing to do with writing quality and forcing two aspects that don’t fit. They shifted to this whole doom and gloom dystopia Samaritan plot yet the atmosphere didn’t reflect it. I mean, it’s kind of like they were trying to tell us how terrible Samaritan is yet the mood quite often did not support the claim. Drawing on what I said earlier about the style and tone in newer seasons with the more ‘in your face’ and flippant approach and humor shift; this did not reflect the solemn nature of the situation. There was humor and BAMF and ‘cool,’ ‘fun’ scenes thrown in when the nature of the situation did not support it, and it created a huge loss of integrity in my view. Also, as I said before I was not a fan of the type of humor or style. It often felt silly, out of place, and very often OOC. And there I go back to the character issues again when I’m trying to focus on plot and overall writing quality. But honestly the writing was such that it drastically reduced the maturity level and intelligence of the original characters. And the whole supposed ‘Team’ dynamic that they decided to focus on and which I kept seeing constant references and praise for in fandom did not work for me. Aside from that isolation effect and dynamic created by Reese/Finch as the major (Carter & Fusco as the minor) that made the show, and the fact that it was lost, the new ‘Team’ dynamic felt much more like shallow teasing/mocking and cool nicknames (’Team Machine,’ ‘Mayhem Twins,’ ‘Team Rocket’) with little to no actual meaningful interactions and development between characters. For example in ‘Provenance’ in S3 it was quite obvious they were trying to promote that Team dynamic, but I honestly thought that episode was awful. The writing and plot was so poor it was laughable. All the fanfare and fanatics of them breaking into the security company, the 3D printer, Reese’s pointless moustache, Fusco and Finch talking about stealing gold etc. It all felt so ridiculous and silly I was sitting there thinking what the heck is this? And - who are you and what have you done to my show? Similarly with the episode Allegiance and breaking into the United Nations and Reese and Shaw’s reaction, and Reese jumping out a window etc. And the trend continued from then on into the Samaritan plot where it even less belonged.
Another thing with regards to the Samaritan plot and the lack of plausibly and realism. The idea of TM creating ID blind spots from Samaritan was a good one, however, there were so many glaring holes and issues with that entire setup they started in S4. It did not work. Those guys were suddenly going from being able to dedicate all their time to saving the numbers to not only having full time jobs but also working behind the scenes against Samaritan. The way I saw it, this would just be impossible to keep up with. We’d seen how working the numbers often required 24 hour surveillance, not to mention absolutely no operating schedule. How the heck do you even do that at all with a full time job? Yes, it would be quite impossible, I think. Not a very plausible story line foundation. And then they were constantly reinforcing how precious their IDs were, how they can be blown by the slightest reckless move, and how they can’t even speak freely about certain topics, yet they then seem to ignore all of that when convenient. (In fact, ignoring previously established canon when convenient was a persistent and extremely annoying trend in the writing of later seasons).
For example, in Prophets Samaritan does not see Professor Whistler posing as Harold Cardinal from New York Journal who also interacts with the man Samaritan ordered to eliminate (wouldn’t people making contact with a target be seen as suspicious and checked?) as a suspicious anomaly. And then ‘Professor Whistler’ saying ‘You and I need to talk’ to a street camera soon after. Another example is Finch in Guilty telling the jury all about Samaritan. Again, this is done for humor, but, for crying out loud, would that audio not send out a huge red flag to Samaritan? In Panopticon Finch is all hush-hush about what they say in public and then he goes and does that?
The concept of the Machine helping to hard code and provide a blind spot so their faces are recognized as another identity is a good one, but they do not uphold it believably. Just like they were constantly doing all around the board in later seasons, they changed the rules to suit their wants. Also, while the ID blind spot idea may be a good one, Root’s supposed ability to constantly change identity all across the board was not. It made no sense for that to be possible. And even if we say for argument’s sake that it is possible it makes absolutely no sense for it to be possible for Root but not the rest of them. Even if Root has this ‘special’ connection to the machine (which she doesn’t even have access to anymore in S4), what does that have to do with how Samaritan sees her? If they could hard code that many identities into Samaritan for her why the heck couldn’t it do that for the rest of them? And, no, Root’s answer to Shaw that she doesn’t make the rules is not an answer, POI writers. It makes absolutely no sense. And for the millionth time Root once again gets special treatment.
Another example is in If-then-Else they say it’s too dangerous for Shaw to go with them because her identity is blown, but that doesn’t make sense either because even with their identities in tact none of that matters when they are in a building of Samaritan agents who know their faces anyhow. They would shoot at them all regardless.
And honestly the way they were writing Samaritan as so dominating, as such an undefeatable foe, it got to the point where it was rather ridiculous that all the characters weren’t already long dead if reasonable plausibility were to be upheld. I mean, they have these shooting matches with dozens of Samaritan agents yet apparently Samaritan’s agents are laughably unskilled. And that was another thing - the villains were no where near as compelling and well developed as in earlier times. Instead of being written with the intelligence and complexity that I really appreciated POI for in S1 & S2, they started writing this simple, unrealistic, blatantly BAMF to the point of stupidity, villains. And the effect of that is the OPPOSITE of being ‘darker and more exciting.’ For example, I found Kara a very compelling character such that whenever she was on screen she always gave this chilling, mysterious kind of vibe. Now Martine? A one-dimensional character that just goes around shooting and acting like a complete idiot. Her killing a hotel receptionist in Prophets is a perfect example. The whole situation in Prophets could have been much more delicately handled and it would have had much more of an impact, but instead they wanted to have their ‘cool’ shoot out scene with Root.
And Elias was such a compelling character as well (who they also started writing poorly in S3 & S4). Dominic was a joke compared to Elias’s character. The whole Dominic story line was so poor. The whole demeanor of the villains was poor. That scene with Martine ‘flirting’ with Harold for Root’s benefit, and Root snapping Martine’s neck etc, is a perfect example. What the heck is that? Completely idiotic. It’s another example of one of the many scenes that correlates with the new atmosphere and writing style where the integrity and sophistication is lost to making characters look ‘cool’ and ‘BAMF.’
On the subject of realism and BAMF characters. Root’s sudden gun and combat skills were ridiculous. Martine is Greer’s right hand, and Greer is a former MI6 agent. You think there is any way his top agent is NOT a highly trained agent? Nope. No way. Yet apparently, Root can 1) fight comparably to her in a gun fight (Prophets) 2) defeat her in hand-to-hand combat (Search and Destroy), and finally 3) easily take her off guard and snap her neck and kill her. Really? And the popular explanation that Shaw taught her does not cut it. I don’t care who taught her. No one can miraculously learn to fight and shoot like an agent with years of experience, because it would take YEARS OF EXPERIENCE. Completely unrealistic, and more of the exceedingly annoying trend of making Root good at everything.
Furthermore, another huge annoyance of mine was how they kept making other characters BAMF at Reese’s expense. I posted a rant on this here. His skills were so severely downplayed constantly in later material. I really hated it. The details are all in that post. I’ll get back to more on Reese later.
Now this brings me to the ultimate root (no pun intended) cause of POI’s downfall in my eyes. To what so deeply upsets and angers me more than anything else: The destruction (yes, destruction) of the characters of Reese and Finch, and their relationship. Better sit down and get comfortable because if you thought this post was long already, I’m just getting started. (And fair warning I will likely get more emphatic and a bit more abrasive in my frustrations because I’m pretty upset and angry about it).
Character Focus
I’ve already talked about how the foundations were set in S3 for the diminished importance of Reese and Finch with the addition of Root & Shaw. So with Finch we already see him starting to look idiotic in S3 with Root and having to follow instructions from her from TM, with neither Reese nor Finch taking a stand against her and all her horrid past misdeeds. Reese, the bully killer, the protector, who knows what she did to Finch and how it effected him just stands by and lets her pursue HIS CLOSEST FRIEND and does nothing. Likewise, Root is constantly insulting Reese, not even calling him by name and using derogatory names for him (’helper monkey’, ‘big lug’, etc), and Finch doesn’t have anything to say about that? The small amount of bitterness or resistance they are showed to have against working with her is made to look as if they are stupid for it because of how Root is portrayed as always having all the right answers with TM in her ear while the other characters have no choice but to follow her around. She gets to save Reese in The Devil’s Share. She gets to save everyone in Aletheia while Reese is conveniently sidelined - in an arc that was in many ways OOC and not true to the core Reese & Finch partnership. She gets tortured and given a ‘disability’ which felt a deliberate attempt to make the audience and Finch feel sympathy for her. Again in Root Path. There we have Reese robbed of what he’s good at, being grossly OOC, bowing down to let Root have her moment as explained in this post. And at the beginning of that episode we have an improper humor moment where Root sends Finch a message in an advertisement, and REESE of all people says ‘I think she likes you,’ to Finch as a joke/humor. So they are reluctant to work with her but Reese of all people is making jokes about her liking Finch. Nice. At the end of S3 Reese is once again reduced to following Root around and thus robbed of contributing anything meaningful or productive to the fight against Samaritan or finding Finch. Root assembled her cyber team. Root worked with TM and created the IDs, saving everyone once again. She even gets the monologue at the end. Yes, Finch had some nice scenes with Greer, but ultimately Reese & Finch didn’t get to achieve anything against the Samaritan plot.
Similarly in S3 with Shaw’s character. In Razgover, for example, Finch is made to look quite foolish and certainly not the tech savvy genius of earlier seasons, all to make Shaw look clever. Reese is robbed of anything intelligent or meaningful while Shaw gets to connect with the number. Reese was constantly sidelined or downplayed so Shaw could step in, barely existing in many episodes (Provenance, Allegiance, Razgover), or behaving OOC so that he can conveniently step down or away to allow Root to shine (Lethe, Root Path). The Reese & Finch dynamic was deteriorated, with them having even less interaction as the season went on. Episode 3x09 with Reese claiming Carter saved him and not even MENTIONING Finch was such a complete discredit to the Reese & Finch heart and pretty much the premise for the entire show that I will never get over it.
Everything only got worse in S4. After Nautilus Reese & Finch barely even interact, often working in completely different plots (as previously mentioned about ‘Skip’ for example). What minimal interaction they do have often felt cold and that of distant coworkers. In If-then-Else it’s kind of telling that NOT ONE of the simulations pairs Reese & Finch together. Yes, there were a few Reese & Finch things thrown in every now and then such as Reese taking the bullet in If-Then-Else, but the thing is you can’t just completely dismantle/ignore the relationship on a regular basis and then throw it back in just for the heck of it. It doesn’t work that way. Because at that point it doesn’t feel genuine anymore. Because those little every day interactions MATTER a great deal. They make the partnership/friendship into what it is. They make the big moments matter instead of just feeling like meaningless fan service. For example, in the season finale (of S4), when Reese says to Finch ‘There’s no place I’d rather be.” It should have felt like a heartfelt moment but instead almost had me rolling my eyes. Why? Because I was remembering the biggest retcon of all in 3x09 The Crossing where not only does Reese first transfer all his gratitude to Carter without even mentioning Finch but then at the end of the episode when Finch arrives and Carter says 'looks like we were all worried about you,' Reese just completely ignores Finch again, telling Carter when Finch is right there that there was 'no place he'd rather be in the end than with her.’ Sound familiar? Yeah, I thought so. For crying out loud, they are not even consistent with their own inconsistencies! It’s horrible writing. It’s laughable and completely destroys that attempted moment at the end of S4, which is btw made even less genuinely felt by the fact that earlier on in the episode Finch CHOOSES TO SAVE THE MACHINE OVER REESE something that really angered me and that there are no excuses for in my eyes as I explained in this previous post here. Completely OOC. But just because Root says so Finch has to go back to following her around. Nope. Not cool. Not cool at all.
In the entire S4 Finch’s character is reduced to a shadow of who he once was; a witless sidekick. Apparently the writers forgot that Finch was a genius, the first and only person alive to create an entire AI. No one alive had his skills in the area of AI and now there is this evil AI run by people who DID NOT create it themselves. We should have seen Finch making his enemies lives very difficult. We should have seen him actually achieve something in the battle against Samaritan, yet instead all we get is Finch following Root around and complaining foolishly. Nafanya-a-a detailed the issues here in this post. As she has summarized:
‘So, at the end of the day, Finch is a character without his own agenda, who is never really allowed to act on his own values or views and incapable of pursuing his own beliefs.’
Nice job, POI writers. The ‘One man revolution’ comment from Claire, instead of being the truth it should have been, it felt nothing but a mockery. Episode Q&A was ridiculous. The whole flash drive thing was so idiotic. I mean, Finch is supposed to be a tech genius, last time I checked, yet there he is deciding between plugging in the flash drive or not as if those are his only options?! Heck, even I can think of something else, like how about just NOT using your own laptop?! And then he pretty much goes to plug it in anyway had he not been interrupted. What the heck?! And then Reese not getting involved to make sure Finch is ok?! That is not the Reese and Finch we know AT ALL. And then, for the love of god, ROOT has to save the day again!? No, No, and NO. They have Finch looking like an idiot, getting himself captured, Reese behaving completely OOC, not making sure his CLOSEST friend is ok, all so Root can save the day again. And then AGAIN in ‘Skip,’ Root once again gets to save the foolish Finch who apparently can’t come up with something better against Samaritan. Not to mention, he can’t think of anything better to stop Root from killing Beth other than DRINKING THE POISON HIMSELF? Give me a break. The whole situation was so obviously fabricated just to give Finch and Root an emotional moment. Just to give Finch and Root their moment they have to 1) make Finch look like an idiot, 2) make an extremely weak number plot to keep Reese busy and out of the way 3) make Reese behave completely OOC by not being attuned to Finch needing him like he normally would have, all so Finch/ROOT can have their moment, a relationship that feels so wrong to me for all the previously discussed reasons.
In 4x20 Terra Incognita Finch once again seemed to lose much of his 1) intelligence, 2) tech savvy, 3) drive to do anything in his power to rescue Reese. I wanted to scream at my screen when Finch is in the library with Root and is going ‘I have no way to locate him,’ And he just sits there doing nothing. Are they kidding? You mean to say FINCH, has no ideas, isn’t at the very least going to try SOMETHING. Heck, even I could think of places he could start (going to the last GPS location, or the police station and find out what case Reese was working on for example??), and they are telling me that FINCH the genius, the father of an AI, just sits there like an idiot? Nope. No way. Especially when it was Reese. Even with no leads he’d be out there tearing things apart until he found him. But no, the Reese & Finch partnership was so downplayed all over. And I haven’t even talked about Reese’s side of that episode yet, but similarly with Finch in Q&A, Reese almost dies and we get zero to no reaction/recognition from Finch. We get a bit of Reese/Fusco but nothing with regards to Finch. (I’ll get to more on this episode when I talk about Reese.)
Moreover with Finch and the way they started writing him in general, fitting in with that change of style and loss of integrity I was talking about. For example, the whole Harold Egret thing was ridiculous. It is another example of the ‘in your face’ unsophisticated attempts to BAMF/humor. It was nothing but a degrading mockery to Finch’s character, all the more blatant at the fact that (in Wingman) while Finch is supposedly being all high and large, he then is shown even bigger the fool by not following through with what he started so that ONCE AGAIN (I really should start a tally) Root steps in for the rescue with another ‘cool’ Root and her guns scene. Sorry, but, no, that was not funny - it was IDIOTIC. Finch was so much more formidable in numerous other instances throughout S1 and S2. And by that I mean he was GENUINELY formidable because he was extremely intelligent and subtly crafty. For example in 1x06 The Fix at the end when Finch all but destroys the nasty CEO of the pharmaceutical company and he sits down to dinner with him to tell him so. Similarly all the compelling scenes between Finch and Elias. Finch does not need to use guns or be blatantly BAMF because he is formidable in his own way, and all the more formidable by being that way, thank you very much. We liked him that way. He need not be mocked for it and be made to look like an idiot. Quite trying to make everybody blatantly BAMF! It’s not cool; it just looks stupid. The writing turned into: let’s write whatever the heck we feel like in the spur of the moment to make something more dramatic, more humorous, more complimentary to our new favorite characters, fit with the plot etc, etc. What happened to the well thought-out, intelligent, engaging, subtle writing I fell in love with? Gone, I tell you. Gone.
Whew. Ok, I need to calm down a bit before I start talking about Reese or I’m going to get myself into some serious trouble here. Reese. Well, I have saved the worst for last. And by that I mean Reese is my favorite character and I am so monumentally upset by what the writers have done to him. That and the Reese & Finch friendship. I discussed Finch and the Reese & Finch friendship and now I will discuss Reese and again the Reese & Finch partnership because they all tie together. And like I said before, their destruction ultimately is what most caused POI’s fall in my view -- or rather it is everything that caused it, but this that hurts the most.
How much they destroyed Reese, is just...
I loved the Man in the Suit concept. I loved the character of John Reese. I loved his complexities, his flaws, his skills, his...presence, as he was created and brought to life, through both the writing and through Caviezel himself.
Starting with S3 and onward Reese was written in such a way that his character was stripped of everything. Not only was he reduced to nothing but good looking furniture to be used just for muscle and shooting, never being aloud to contribute meaningfully to the main plot, but, even worse, his character was also severely degraded in numerous ways.
His intelligence and maturity was severely diminished. His competence, knowledge and skills as an ex-spy/military/Special Forces no longer utilized and/or TAKEN AWAY either for the sake of 1) humor 2) making another character look good, or 3) being lazy and taking the easy way out to create the action/excitement -- some of which I have described in that previous post here with regards to his skills. Gone were the intelligent remarks. The wry, subtle, sneakily efficient, intelligent, mature humor/teasing/nature. Gone was the contribution of his intelligence and experience used to solve problems and cases. Gone were his complexities and somewhat reticent nature stemming from one haunted by such a dark past. Gone was his formidable and imposing and enigmatic nature. Gone were the complexities in the relationships he formed with others. Gone was the EXISTENCE of many of his previously formed relationships. Gone was the way he would connect with the numbers each week, his ability to read people, understand them. Gone even was his deep-rooted compassion and consideration for others.
So many times they used his character just as a joke, unintelligent, and immature (take Wingman, for example, an episode the did nothing but turn both Reese and Finch’s characters into a mockery). Often times they seemed to do this to provide a sibling relationship with Shaw or add humor. Like Reese’s flippant attitude and tossing a coin to decide who saves the next number, for example (Most Likely To..). Really?? Is this the same Reese of seasons 1 & 2?? A lot of people seem to enjoy those scenes that are supposed to be funny, I suppose, but for me no. I could never see Reese having such a carless and disrespectful attitude toward the people they save. And their ‘sibling’ fighting over Bear, and Reese in ‘Pretenders’ with Shaw and whining like a ‘baby’ when he is injured. Seriously? Is this the same highly trained ex-agent with extremely high pain tolerance? Reese used to be such a formidable character, reticent – but not a socially awkward imbecile with low maturity! They lost his presence. It felt like he’d become an incompetent laughing stock.
The portrayal of him as a cop seemed to do nothing but turn him into an incompetent joke. Yes, he is accustomed to violence, and yes he has no qualms about it when he needs to use it, and yes he can kill people with startling equanimity, and yes he finds solace in using his skills to help/protect others, but he is NOT a whining, pouting, shallow idiot with no tact who likes shooting people and drawing attention to himself with no ability to be discreet (Ex Wingman) who behaves like a child when he doesn’t get what he wants (Prophets) and furthermore carelessly and constantly puts those he cares about at risk. In Wingman, for example, fun as it may be to see Reese running around shooting bad guys on crowded streets, the Reese of S1 & S2 would NEVER behave so recklessly and flaunt himself in front of crowds of people. Aside from never being so idiotic and reckless, he liked to avoid conflict and confrontation where possible and was uncomfortable drawing attention to himself. Even under normal circumstances he would not behave that recklessly, let alone when Samaritan is high and large and their very lives (and the lives of those he cares about) depend on them being discreet. It was more of the shallow, idiotic, ‘in your face’ approach and style/humor that I’ve been talking about that became the trend in later seasons and which I would not be fond of in any circumstance but which was made all the more ill-fitting in a show trying to manifest a dark ‘the world is coming to an end’ atmosphere. FAIL. Major fail.
Another example was in Brotherhood. Reese is shown as an incompetent fool with the kids at the school. For what, humor? It wasn’t even funny. And a complete discredit to previously established canon where Reese was good with kids. Apparently Reese is suddenly no longer good with kids.
4x20 Terra Incognita. I’ll give that it was well done in terms of the atmosphere it managed to create. Jim also really did well in that episode. HOWEVER, - excellent character writing? – NO. Not by a long shot. What angered me the most is pretty much the same as 3x09 and that is that Finch is apparently non-existent to Reese. He’s not even mentioned ONCE when Reese is once again talking to Carter all about his state of mind before – how do I even say it? Apparently ‘when Finch found Reese’ is no longer in existence. And they even went back and revamped previous canon by having Reese have this big revelation that he actually broke things off with Jessica for selfish reasons. What? It makes no sense and that is NOT the Reese they had originally written. It seemed they wrote it as a device to show ‘look how well Carter knows Reese,’ which, like 3x09, was completely unnecessary. The Carter/Reese relationship already had great foundations in S1 & S2. We didn’t need it thrown in our faces trying to prove it at the expense of Reese/Finch and Reese’s character!
And the whole ‘I don’t let people in’ and ‘the therapist is the only person Reese can talk to.’ Apparently Carter is the only one that understands him and Iris too. What the heck? What is Finch, a doorknob? And they played up Reese’s ‘issues’ far too much. Yes, he has issues - he’s always had issues, but he had reached a form of stability and contentment in his life when Finch found him. What happened to that? It never happened?
All the doom and gloom and life ‘talks’ of Reese with Carter and Iris and Finch was never even ACKNOWLEDGED ONCE as Reese’s friend. Not one freaking time. Not in therapy sessions, not when talking to Carter’s ghost. They do it in 3x09 and then again in 4x20 it is brought up how Reese was going to kill himself but then took a different path yada yada. He took a different path but is going to end up where he was going anyway, life passing him by, doesn’t let anyone in etc, etc, doom and gloom ad infinitum. He needs Carter and Iris to save him etc etc. Because apparently he is still suicidal and that ‘different path’ he took just happened, but, Finch? Finch who, you say?
And Iris’s character representation of a psychiatrist was extremely poor. It all felt so contrived and completely OOC for Reese.
I also dislike the label ‘hero complex’ that has been attached to Reese and used almost as a mocking character label.
The examples of his character degradation and sidelining are endless. And I would often see the reflection of it in the fandom itself, which made it all the more upsetting. I would see the new fans annoyed when he had screen time, calling him boring, often mocked and degraded etc. Even posts people made that were meant to compliment the character I would find insulting and not at all a description of the Reese I fell in love with in S1 & S2. And the worst part was that often they weren’t even wrong. Because the writers had started writing him that way.
They destroyed his entire essence, and all of his character development from earlier seasons. His demeanor, his outlook on life, all changed. And his core friendship with Finch!
Honestly, I no longer recognized the characters of Reese and Finch.
The Ending
You may have noticed that up until now I have not discussed S5. You may also be thinking that if I was this unhappy with S3 & S4 why did I continue watching? Well I didn’t. I was not very happy with developments after S3 but at that point still thought it possible to be somewhat redeemed. I had also grown very fond of the original characters. But S4 was the last straw for me. After the S4 finale, with Reese completely sidelined from both the main plot and from Finch even in the finale, and Finch just doing nothing but following Root around, the humanization of TM, and worst of all Finch not even choosing to save Reese. Nope, after that season it didn’t matter what was done in S5, the damage was already too great. I found I was not at all looking forward to S5, and I no longer fit within the fandom either, as most fans still watching did not feel the same as me. I was dreading S5, and going into the main POI tag just upset me. I had started watching the show and joined the fandom to make me happy not upset! So I pulled out. I stopped going into the main POI tag as I had been doing, and I was already not following any POI blogs, so I wouldn’t have to see anything that upset me. The thing is, I still love the first two seasons. I love seeing/making edits of the first two seasons. I love making videos, and writing fan fiction with the characters as I had loved them in the first two seasons. It makes me happy. And I wanted to keep doing that. So I did. I created a tumblr blog (this blog!) with some tumblr friends who felt the same as me, a place where I could still enjoy what I loved about the show. The new fans could be free to like what they liked, and I could be free to like what I liked. Sounds good. I had convinced myself that I wouldn’t let myself care what happened in S5, and I tried REALLY hard not to. But I just care for these characters too much. And so try as I might not to let it upset me, not to care, when I heard how it ended, I still did. Even though I had expected S5 to go that route, had known it would happen, had known it would end badly, it still upset me.
Because they don't get to do this to us. They don't get to all but ignore Reese & Finch's relationship, not to mention completely dismantle both their characters throughout 3 seasons and then all of a sudden add it back in just so Reese can die.
While I haven’t actually seen S5 (and never will!), I know the spoilers. I know about the Reese & Finch scenes in the last episode and have seen the dialogue and some gifs. I know many Reese & Finch fans are happy with that end, but I myself cannot be and never will. Why? Because it doesn’t work that way. Because like I said before, those little every day interactions matter. In fact, they matter the most. You can’t just completely destroy that and then throw it back in for the last episode. Because at that point, no matter how beautiful it might seem, no matter how well acted, it no longer feels genuine. It is being done for the sole purpose of killing off a character. Just for the sake of making his death hurt more. That's not good writing in my eyes at all. And they have done it constantly - written the characters in and out of character to fit the plot or to emotionally manipulate their audience.
They did it with Carter's death. They set everything up with her character, having her act OOC by going on that revenge mission against HR, showing flashbacks etc, all so they could kill her off. Then they proceeded to exaggerate Reese & Carter's relationship to the extreme, transferring ALL of Reese's gratitude to Carter and completely ignoring Finch's role. Similarly with Fusco. They continued that trend ever since then, including in 4x20 where they reinforced again how important Carter was and having Reese discuss his suicidal condition he'd had in the pilot (and somehow still had, never mind that S2 had showed us he had reached a certain degree of contentment and happiness), not to mention all about how he never let anyone in, without ONCE mentioning how Finch saved him, or how important his friendship was to him. Again throughout his therapy sessions with Iris, where Finch was not even mentioned ONCE, let alone acknowledged as his friend. They spent 3 seasons having Reese transfer all of his gratitude to other characters, and then all of a sudden, oh! Ok, we are going to kill him off now, so quick now it's Finch again who saved him, never mind how they previously destroyed that. Even with Fusco too. It had annoyed me in 3x10 when Fusco had given all his gratitude to Carter when it should have mostly belonged to Reese, and I heard in S5 finale he has a moment with Reese, so now Carter’s dead and he gets to give it back to Reese?
They set the whole stage just to kill Reese off.
Apparently, they make it a grand revelation that if Finch hadn't created the machine, Reese would be dead, something that was already completely obvious from the start. They do it so Reese can say he is repaying his debt to Finch in the end, and I honestly despise that. The whole message it sends annoys me to no end. How many times in the past had they BOTH saved each other already? They didn't owe each other anything! That's not true friendship. Yes, they would die for each other, we know that, but don't give it off as the message that it's a debt needed repaying. That’s awful. And staged. Remember in S4 finale how they wrote Finch choosing to save the machine over Reese, which made me angry. But, see, apparently nobody much cared because Reese didn't die, so apparently that made it ok to write Finch OOC. Now in S5 they kill Reese so Finch gets to be in character again? That's horrible writing the way I see it. Take it away and then add it back in for emotional impact when it's convenient. NO. Just no. Can you imagine if Reese had actually died at that point? Would that have been a fitting end? Those moments that didn’t actually end up in a death are just as important and the characters should behave accordingly. The rooftop scene in Dead Reckoning, for example, was a genuinely felt scene because it showed character development that had grown across two seasons. It was impacting and heartfelt and no one had to die to achieve it.
And I am extremely upset with what was done to Reese. I have never before seen such poor treatment of a main character. I'm so upset that Reese dies alone and so horrifically, and as a cardboard cut out of the character he used to be, with no character development, still believing he is some kind of monster whose life is worth nothing. It was even worse than a lack of character development - in S2 we saw much development from S1 - he was much happier with his life, then not only do we not develop that further but they take it away, along with his skills. As much as I don't like how they developed Root's character at least they graced her with character development at all!
Apparently Reese had to die because he was doomed from the start to die. Apparently his death was inevitable in any scenario because he was suicidal when we met him. So if you have a dark past, are a war veteran, there is no kind of hope for you, and nobody can love you. You’re just running on ‘borrowed time.’ Gee thanks, what a great message, I feel so empowered by that. Thanks POI writers. Furthermore, as said by the POI writers, Reese didn’t have anybody left like Finch did so apparently this also tells us Reese should die. So if you’ve lost your loved ones you should just die too because no one else could love you? Gee, thanks again, POI writers. I’m really feeling uplifted here. What lovely messages. Apparently Reese was just running on ‘borrowed time’ the entire time and this was also how he himself viewed everything. Apparently he was just doing everything to die. Thanks, what are we at now on a character development scale for Reese? Maybe a -50 on a scale from 1 to 10? What happened to the Reese of S1 who told Andrea in 1x12 how he believed in second chances? Reese thanking Finch in 1x10 for giving him a second chance? What happened to that Reese? Now he didn’t get a second chance and was just running on borrowed time? Apparently the Reese of S4 tells ghost Carter that he didn't change anything, is going to get where he was going anyway. Doom and gloom ad ad infinitum, etc, etc. What the heck? (And he said a similar thing to Elias in 4x09 - had a similar outlook). Yeah, he's just doing everything to die anyway, running on borrowed time. Because, oh, look! Here's a big revelation! -- Reese would have been dead if not for Finch! Because Reese didn't already say as much in 2x10 on the roof ("pretty sure I'd already be dead if you hadn't found me"), and to the machine in 2x01 ("he saved my life, understand?") *sarcasm intensifies* But no! Because the machine says so when it can't even possibly know such a thing, quick, now Reese OWES Finch for that. No. just NO.
Regarding TM and those simulations I heard about in S5. How could the machine POSSIBLY know what would have happened in all these scenarios? How could it know how Reese and the people in his life would react? No, this is ridiculous to me. People are extremely complex individuals. Not even humans could guess someone else’s actions, let alone a MACHINE. This is wrong to me on so many levels. But then from what I’ve heard about TM in S5 they already went WAY past the point of ridiculousness.
And Finch going off to live a happy ever after with Grace? This is also wrong on so many levels. Finch had already sacrificed his life with her after he build TM, and it was a sealed deal, no going back. It does not fit AT ALL. And Finch looks like a nothing, a nobody in the end.
I will never understand the direction this show took. It became all about who should die, who should sacrifice themselves for whom, who owed whom a debt. The show itself, the writers, the fandom all became so focused on it. I don’t get it, I mean, how depressing is that? That was not the show I started watching. S1 & S2 had been about second chances and finding friendship where you least expect it. S3 onward became about sacrifice and paying debts and apocalypse, the world is coming to an end and everyone has to die. Apparently a great beautiful message was that even when you die you are not forgotten if someone remembers you. Really? Is that supposed to be new? I could have gotten that from a funeral eulogy, thank you very much. It looks like meaningless fanfare and fanatics. Reese says that he had set about saving the world? Really? What is this, a superhero comic? Reese was much more practical than that. As he said in the Pilot he ‘went around the world looking for bad guys,’ because as Finch said he ‘wanted to protect people’. Reese says that he found saving one person at a time anticlimactic? No, this is not what we saw at all. Right from the first episode we see how much he values being able to save people like the little boy in the Pilot and Theresa in Ghosts. He didn’t find it anticlimactic. From the Pilot onto Ghosts we immediately see the change in him when he realizes he can still do something meaningful with himself. And all this about him dying a hero. Is this new too? He already put his life at risk every day to save others. He was already a hero. He didn’t need to die to prove it. Just meaningless fanatics. And all the obsession with the sacrifice theme got so tedious and repetitive. The characters themselves seemed to turn into suicidal fools most of the time. Finch for example was going to sacrifice himself to save Beth, for crying out loud, and then it’s supposed to be so beautiful when he does it to save Reese? And in the finale of S5 Reese & Finch each go to sacrifice themselves for each other for the world etc, yeah, very beautiful, but how about they actually work together as a team and come up with a plan where no one has to be sacrificed? The characters were constantly showed to have death wishes throughout newer seasons. All meaningless fanatics to me. That silly ‘in your face’ approach. Those speeches/dialogue throughout the later seasons seemed way too overdone. I had loved how in S1 & S2 Reese & Finch interacted much more implicitly. If they had stayed true to the characters there would be no need to outwardly express things with flowery words in the finale. There would be nothing to PROVE. We would already know it without it being said. Now that would be writing worth praising. Anybody can write fancy speeches.
And in the end, because of the way they started writing and sidelining the original characters, how is this ending going to feel to original fans? It looks to me that in the end the writers get exactly what they'd wanted all along. Shaw get's to steal Reese's job AND his dog, while Root get's to live on forever in connection to the machine, while Finch, its creator, is forgotten. Bravo, writers, in the end Root and Shaw steal everything from Reese and Finch, even their dog.
In the end Root and Shaw had the most character development, with Reese & Finch having worse than no character development. Root in particular had the most character development, the most integration into the main plot. As I mentioned before about new character additions and stealing function from the originals. Not only was Root’s character given Finch’s intelligence and computer skills but she was then also given crazy gun and combat skills so that she also had power to steal function from Reese as well. She was given this all mighty connection to the machine which allowed her to drive the main plot and reduce the other characters to having to follow her around. She got to become Finch’s new best friend, displacing Reese more often than not. She got to save everyone numerous times. She even got moments with Bear, whom everyone seemed to forget was REESE’S dog whom he had given to Finch to protect him from ROOT.
A quote from one of the writers sums things up nicely: "We just wanted to keep writing [Root] more and more. Amy Acker came in and really stole the show."
You don’t say? Yeah, we noticed. Thanks.
I have nothing against Amy as a person but her character and the way she was written I will never like. The writers’ infatuation with her destroyed the original characters. And their obsession with the AI arc destroyed the show’s original style and premise.
I know many people did like the new characters, style, and plot, and that’s completely fine. For people who like that kind of show, characters and themes, I can see why they might enjoy POI’s newer seasons. My issue is that the POI writers started writing it out as something different, attracting a different kind of audience and then transformed it into something else, disregarding previously established canon, treating original characters extremely poorly. If they had gotten bored with what they were doing, bored with the characters, they should have ended it right there, and started a new show. Everyone would have been happier for it. While I know I’m in a minority in my opinions I also know that so many older fans already left the fandom and stopped watching. And the thing is while many older fans aren’t fond of the later material, likewise most of the new fans don’t care for the earlier material or characters. For example, of the comments on an article I saw about the finale the majority of complaints were things like how Root & Shaw didn’t get enough screen time, complaints that Root died, or how there was ‘too much procedural fluff.’ Reese & Finch were barely mentioned, just some comments about how, yeah, Reese had to die etc. Also I’ve lost track of the number of times I saw newer fans making lists of skippable episodes not containing Root or Shaw. So what does this tell us? As I said, EVERYONE would have been happier if they had just ended the show and started a new one with the new characters and plot, started a new show with Nolan’s ‘Catwomen’ and Root and Shaw. That way older fans never would’ve had to watch their beloved characters turned into baggage, while new fans wouldn’t have to make lists of skippable episodes, or suffer through ‘procedural fluff.’ Win win.
Well. I applaud you for actually making it to the end of this extremely long rant. I apologize if I’ve upset anyone. It was not my intent. I needed to get it out. While I know I’m in the minority I also know from talking to others that I’m not completely alone, and I wanted to give it a voice. We have also been asked several times here on poioriginal why we don’t like S3-S5, so here is my long (no kidding, right?) version for you.
I want to give a nod of thanks to @nafanya-a-a whom I’ve been having long chats with about the show and has been keeping me sane through our frustrations with what happened to our beloved show. Much of this long rant comes about from our lengthy discussions. Also to @managerie76 whom I am so enjoying running this blog with, and who reminded me why we get so attached to fictional characters, making me feel less insane for doing so! I hope you don’t mind if I quote you here, managerie76. When I asked her why I let TV shows get to me like this she answered with this:
‘because tv shows make us more empathetic. Putting ourselves in the place of fictional characters makes us more caring people. We are better for having experienced these things with these characters.’
Thank you, managerie, for that. I think I needed it! And for better or worse with regards to how this post is received, it helped me to get it all out. Thanks for reading, for hearing me out.
Now I think I will try to set it all aside and continue on enjoying what I loved about S1 & S2, through this blog, fan edits, fan fiction, fan videos, etc. My ending is the last episode of S2, when the machine's cords had been cut and Reese & Finch wondered if they would ever get another number. Then they are out walking and a pay phone rings. Quite a nice ending actually. Yes, that is the ending for me. I leave you with it:
Okay this is pissing me the fuck off. The anti bl matsu’s are harassing a lot of well known artists that ship the brothers. Some have decided to become inactive from so many hate comments. And I’m just… what do you think your gonna accomplish?
“Alright everyone! We got another person to become inactive on their account! Keep up the good work!” *high fives*
Unfortunately, that’s not how anything works. There will ALWAYS BE someone that likes something you don’t. And I’m pretty sure the thing your harassing over is just a fetish? A large portion of us have some form of fetish. Incest is just one of those fetishes. When it’s applied in real life, a lot of us know that it’s disgusting and gross.
Take the furry fandom for example. Everyone assumes that people in the fandom enjoys furry porn. Well believe it or not, they don’t. The porn isn’t what the entire fandom is about. Yes, there are some people that have no interest in that side of the fandom. Yes, there will be extremists that take things too far. People need to accept that it’s there and there isn’t anything you can do to change it.
Back to blmatsu. One of there reasons why they are doing this is because of survivors of rape/child survivors of said rape/ mostly cause they don’t like incest.
I haven’t seen anything triggering in the tag about rape or anything so I’m not sure why they are using it against us. Child rape, that I can kind of understand? The matsu’s look young, and it does look wrong. But you do realize that the matsu brothers are over 20, right? There well over the age of consent. Unless in like some crazy country they have the legal consent of 30, then I get it.
Not liking incest, it’s cool, I get it. Its not your cup of tea. Which perfectly fine. Its just when you start attacking people over it to the point of deactivating is when things go too far.
You antis say that the blmatsu shippers need to grow up because we get defensive. Well we kind of have to cause your attacking, and we have to defend?
It’s like fencing, you know, you use your sword to “attack”. Then we have to “defend” ourselves from said “attack”.
I came into this fandom cause it was fun and hilarious. Brothers doing stupid shit cause there brothers. But at this point, people are not leaving cause of the harassment, there leaving cause our fandom has become EXTREMELY shitty.
Its like the game Undertale: good game, shitty fandom. And I’m pretty sure no one wants it to be like, Osomatsu-san: good show, shitty fandom. But that’s what it kind of lead to. And people don’t want to deal with it. And soon enough, there will probably be only a handful of us left. And if your okay with that.
Then I hope you got what you wanted, cause there will be nothing left when this is over.