#fdtd meta

[sandalaris]

Do you have any thoughts on the rules of the Labyrinth in FDTD? I've been thinking a lot about how Richie didn't get a personalized vision while he was doing the trials, the way Seth did with his dad. And outside of the trials we got to see both Kate and Freddie (and later Carlos) get visions design to push or torment them. OR basically any thinking thoughts you have about FDTD, I can never get enough of those lol

Sorry this is late. I started to answer and then decided to wait until after I rewatched the episodes where Richie is actually in the Labyrinth.

I always kind of assumed that it was Santanico’s prepping of Richie mixed with his being in the mental-messing-with-people part less than the others that kept him from having too many personal aspects in the Labyrinth.

He was shot before the others found the secret tunnels/maze, and was dragged into Santanico’s personal chambers before being turned. And we know she prepared him for at least parts of the Labyrinth, so I think it’s possible she taught him how to focus his thoughts in such a way so it didn’t dig up anything too painful for him and thus risk him not completing the task she gave him. It still got some things, the big safe/vault he saw as a personal challenge, Pritchard who Richie has a hatred of, the insults to his family name etc, and the job itself is a sore spot for both brothers. These are little things, but Seth wasn’t even there for the conversation with Big Jim where he insulted Ray Gecko so that was just for Richie (who may have hated his dad, but he still became a boxman just like Ray. There's definitely some complicated feeling for both brothers about their dad, even if Seth's are more obvious), and then there was Richie’s failure with tricking Big Jim. This was the part of the plan that Richie was in charge of, the piece of it that he not only created but convinced Seth to let him lead/execute, and he failed at it, which digs into Richie's issues with wanting to be the boss/make decisions in the plans. And we know from Scott, who talks about his vision when he finds Jacob and Kate again, that they didn’t show us all of the tests/visions. Storywise, the writers/editors may have decided that Richie’s personal test/puzzle didn’t need showing and/or Seth’s was more interesting/important.

There might also be something to Richie’s pure intentions/mind that kept the challenges part of the Labyrinth from messing with him quite so badly. The Labyrinth, where Seth, Richie, and Carlos where sent into was comprised of what it could take from a person’s mind, while the temple/maze portion that the others, Kate, Scott, Freddie, etc, fought their way through had visions of hidden worries/fears/truths. It’s the Labyrinth that reads the intentions of people and that the culebras apparently send people into as punishment. There, Carlos and Seth both have alternative motivations for wanting to get in and get out, while Richie’s is more “pure.” I could see how him wanting to find the Special Snake for non-selfish reasons might be construed as pure compared to Seth’s “want to find it to free my brother from this woman’s clutches” and Carlos’s “wants to take over the empire” motivations. Seth’s motivation might also have played a role in why he got the personal puzzle he did, designed to drive doubt further into his head about Richie, destroying his reasoning for even going in and thus increasing his chasing of failure.

While the Labyrinth builds its challenges from the things in people’s heads, personal things designed to test them, I think the rest of the maze just takes what’s prominent on the person’s mind, as well as snagging things from one person’s mind to show someone else. Freddie’s worried about his daughter’s baptism, that’s what’s freshest to him after watching Kate and Jacob and thinking about what Carlos said about him losing his family, while Sergeant Frost had his most horrifying PTSD moment replayed for him over and over. But Kate got to see the truth of what her mom did, and while it was painful, it also opened up for her see the truth of what her dad’s been doing and forgive him. Her visions ultimately helped her and helped to repair the relationship she had with her dad. And now that I think about it, so did Freddie’s. It helped show him what was really most important to him which helped him let go of his obsession for revenge. The outside maze area was less pointed in its visions, not designed to test, and what it took and reflected back at them was less obstacles and more designed to show someone truths… or at least versions of the truth. (I don’t personally buy that it can show you the future or anything, so I don’t think what Freddie saw was set in stone to happen if he didn’t let go of his revenge, but more his fear manifested into a worst case scenario designed to force him to face the fact that he’s chosen revenge over his family.)

There might also be something to Richie and Kisa’s mental connection playing a role. She messed with his head for possibly months (hell, it could’ve been years, although I highly doubt it) prior to them even entering the Twister, and it wouldn’t surprise me if over time he developed a certain level of defense against too much digging. Santanico was reduced to only showing up in reflections (after revealing herself in full glory in the woods) until Richie got close enough for her to start showing up as full formed visions again. He’s had practice in blocking his thoughts, while Seth had next to zero prep of any kind before going in.

[fortysevenswrites]

Thoughts on what los tres geckos are up to post-s3?

There is a 1000000% chance that Los Tres Geckos are getting up to CRIME in their post-Matanzas world.

Which like, yeah, we know. So, let's dive in.

Our favorite trio uses Jed's as their home base because why would they EVER give that up? Richie would never and Seth would follow with what Richie wants (even if he doesn't entirely love being surrounded by culebras, he's getting used to it and starting to see some of them as humans too), and also MONEY. They get so much money from Malvado's old holdings that sure, they love crime and get lots of money from it, but they'd be crazy to give it all up too.

Plus, they're thinking in the long-term now, with Kate living with them. They're not going to be able to be criminals forever (though they're going to keep it up as long as humanly possible) so they're also looking into setting up some pretty cushy nest eggs to keep them set for the rest of their natural (and unnatural) lives.

That said, they don't actually live at Jed's, primarily because Kate feels like Seth's room is A, super fucking depressing, and B, it reminds her too much of when they were traveling through Mexico, which reminds her of the memories she picked up from Seth about traveling through Mexico, so pretty much right after she even implies that she doesn't love living at a truck stop, Seth is looking for the least ostentatious property they own to move into.

They end up at a pretty massive mini-mansion, big enough that Seth and Kate live on one side of the house, Richie on the other, and yeah, Seth guesses there's room for Scott whenever he comes through town while touring with Fanglorious 2.0. But like, just for a day or two. If he really has to. And like, doesn't the little ninja nerd make enough from touring to afford a hotel? There are plenty of great hotels in Houston for him to choose from. PLENTY. He even has a list of recommendations saved to his phone, you know, just for the occasion.

Along with actually moving in together, Kate and Seth have to, you know, actually figure their shit out (which is more Seth's problem than Kate's, of course, because Kate figured out what she wanted wayyyyyyyy before Seth even had an inkling, because of course), and mostly includes Kate waiting patiently while Seth freaks out about not being good enough for her until she's not so patient anymore (hey, a girl has needs and Seth looks LIKE THAT--and yes, Emily, I know I PAINFULLY relate to this), and she sits Seth down and tells him to pull his head out of his ass, I mean, she already told him she loved him, it's not THAT COMPLICATED SETH.

(She's living with the guy, so she wants the perks of living with the guy. The perks, of course, being his dick.)

Seth takes her on a real date that same night. It's awkward for all of five minutes before they remember that they're actually soulmates, they've literally been to hell and back together, and Seth's blood is running through Kate's veins for forks sake, and then it's back to just being them--you know, sitting, playing footsie, and making up outlandish plans for how to steal from the other patrons of the restaurant they're at.

And then they have sex for three days straight.

They plan to keep going, until Richie threatens to move out because he can't handle the pheromones that are stinking up the house. Kate tells him to just shut up and call Kisa home already, which leads to Seth having another freakout, until Kate sits him down and tells him to get over it, because Kisa's return is pretty much inevitable with the number of times she calls Richie each week for "business purposes". Because those phone calls last for HOURS.

So it's a combination of crime, running Jed's, and Seth taking Kate on vacation--it's a beach, it's always a beach.

You know, El Rey, but better.

[myletternevercame]

Hang on I think I’m having a semi-coherent thought about Seth and fire...

In season one we find out that Seth got his tattoo because Richie saved him from the fire that killed their dad.

Which he then finds out Richie set. He feels betrayed that his brother A) killed their dad and B) lied to him about it for twenty(ish) years and the revelation drives a wedge further between them.

In season two he gets his tattoo expanded to cover up the scars from when Richie bit him. So now the flames are acting as a denial of their bond instead of a celebration of it.

Then in season three, Richie is being controlled by Amaru and the only long shot solution they can find is to set him on fire.

So we come full circle, from Richie setting a fire to set Seth free, to Seth setting a fire to set Richie free.

[hearthouses]

post-s3 carlos/kisa is place i like to live in because i just imagine carlos doing his best to be his very best and try to be selfless and help kisa because of their people and it’s the right thing to do without any underlying desires or hidden motives, all the while he’s pining for her and it’s excruciating. 

but carlos tries to keep himself in check and kisa comes around slowly--he gets to know her as a person in her own right, a person who is free to leave whenever she chooses and a person who chooses now to lead and chooses her own path, a person of her own making and he falls in love again all over with kisa, the woman born of her own agency and volition. 

kisa lets him back in with trepidation and careful, cautious steps; it takes time as all healing does, and a wound that goes as deep as this will take centuries before its scarred over, but carlos knows all they have is time and he’s willing to be in for the long haul, to make an effort this time, to be patient because after all, he knows what it’s like to lose her. 

[scifibi]

soo i was wondering, do you think seth was, dare i say, jealous of kate and rafa's short lived relationship i guess you could say? i really wish he could've shown it more

(x)

hello, anon! 

lmao this is actually kind of a funny question, because if i’m being completely frank, i don’t think we were meant to receive Seth’s reaction to Kate’s new friend Rafa in any other way, and there’s a few reasons why. 

let’s start with my favourite one: the scene in which Seth finds out about Rafa.

first of all – positioning. 

now, positioning is key. positioning tells us a LOT about dynamics in a scene – motive, agenda, interpersonal connections, intentions etc. 

Seth and Kate are both positioned very deliberately here. they’re on opposite sides of a table, so there’s an element of confrontation to their interaction. not only that, but Seth is standing while Kate is sitting. that right there? that sets Kate on something of a defensive edge.

this is an important dynamic to establish right off the bat. it shows that Seth and Kate aren’t just two regular, purely platonic friends having a discussion about a guy one of them met. if they were, the vibe would be one of open intimacy, NOT confrontation.

it shows, too, in the way she tries to recover. 

this is a pretty rare reaction from Kate. back in 1x02, when Scott was calling her out about Kyle, we didn’t even get to see her anywhere near this nervous. she barely even blinked, reacting with pure exasperation and annoyance. (“Hey, give it back!” “Gross!”)

the fact that Kate was nervous about talking to Seth about a stranger with whom she’d had an (admittedly very flirty) interaction with is a huge indicator that their relationship is definitely not of the brother-sister variety that she shares with Scott. it shows us that Kate cares what Seth thinks, in a very specific way that she doesn’t with Scott. 

(side note: this is actually a very nice parallel between 1x02 and 2x02 and i can’t believe i’ve never noticed it before lmaooo okay moving on)

next, Seth’s reaction.

what an AMAZING face. (well done, DJ.) 

first of all, it’s important to note that Seth doesn’t even say anything. Seth motherfucking Gecko, who always has a smartass comeback to anything and anyone in any given occasion, doesn’t say anything. 

he’s unsure of how to process this new information, and he’s unsure of how to react to it. 

note the face he pulls. whatever he’s feeling about this new Rafa person, he’s clearly not pleased. 

(x)

there’s also quite a bit to unpack in the scene where Seth actually meets Rafa.

like how Seth kicks things off by referencing his connection with Kate, establishing that as an anchorpoint right off the bat (“and then you pop the lock, exactly like we practiced”). 

or the way all three characters are positioned yet again – Seth on one side, Kate and Rafa on the other. (again, there’s that element of confrontation.)

or the way this scene was sequenced to follow right after the scene where Kate lured a man out to the parking lot for Rafa to feed on – a scene where she and Rafa got a lot closer, and Rafa actually made her smile like this: 

… or maybe just Seth being a snide lil shit to Rafa.

(x)

there’s also something to be said about the way Seth chooses the scene right before they start working the job to say this:

“I know I didn’t exactly make this easy on you, so… thank you. For putting up with my shit.”

it’s a pretty classic reaffirmation technique, one that we all do often enough in our own lives. when we feel like someone close to us is on the verge of pulling away, our natural reaction is to make conscious attempts to let them know how much we value them. 

and, while he’s at it, Seth goes ahead and blows Rafa’s whole making-Kate-smile deal out of the water with THIS Iconic Line:

(x)

in summation, yes, i definitely think we, as an audience, were meant to conclude that Seth was not only wary, but also ultimately jealous of Rafa for his connection with Kate.

[maevemilllay]

So I was doing a re-watch of the FDTD Season 3 Finale (of course), and noticed something interesting.

When Richie was in Xibalba, Carlos made the suggestion that he was meant to cross to the other side because he was part Xibalban, and he could get out of hell. He says: “When the sun comes out from behind that moon, you got one job and one job only, and that is to save tu hermanito (your brother), or it all goes down the drain.”

When we see Kisa wake up, the sun is beginning to come out from behind the moon. And not long after that, Richie walks out from Xibalba, leading Kate the way out of hell. If Richie hadn’t been there, he couldn’t have used his special powers, the ones Carlos hinted at, to get Kate out. Because getting Kate out meant saving his brother. Because Seth couldn’t make it without Kate.

[zaritarazi]

so i’ve been thinking about the real shitty fairly anti-women stuff that was said by el rey’s network president, and it really got me thinking about how it clearly applied to the parts i was fairly meh about on s3. and i’m not really blaming cotos for this, because i really feel like he had a gun to his head so to speak on this, but like

- kate being amaru instead of having her own arc? that smacks to me very strongly of them just being like eh, agency? fuck it?? it feels lazier and lazier the more i think about it

- richie as a whole getting shelved. especially since the network president went on about masculinity and all of that, and richie has never fit that archetype the way seth has? and that was a major plus for dusk as a show, especially in the first two seasons. and when they backslid into that sort of trope, they ended up pretty much ruining freddie’s character, ignoring richie, and giving seth way too much focus when richie is the one that’s always been prophesied about

- it’s very interesting to me how only now are people speaking out against el rey, because it’s become apparent they might not get what they want- the show has already been treating the geckos kind of strangely, but very few people seemed to mind when they were getting what that want- and that’s coming from me who loves sk and loved episodes 4 + 7 but am still capable of making critique, i know, shocking

- it’s like the disconnect between the super sexualized advertisements and the actual message of the show has finally become connected again, and let me just say, yikes

- and again, fandom loves to do that thing where if you give them a chance to ignore the mentally ill character, they will- this is hardly just a dusk problem, issac lahey sends his regards- but it’s nice to see who’s ableist deep down when it’s not trendy to support mentally ill characters (el rey as a network i guess?)

[hearthouses]

re: fdtd - one of the things i still mourn it's not getting good Kisa & Scott interaction (add in Carlos for extra parallels and general messed-up-ness). The missing ~potential *sighs*

Oh god, SAME. SO MUCH  S A M E. 

Like what gets to me is they never spoke directly to one another, but in a lot of ways there were so many obvious parallels, especially in episode 2x05 Bondage. Both of them held hostage “for their own good” by someone who claims to be doing it out of love (Carlos and Kate are heavily paralleled here, yet no one wants to talk about that), that person refuses to understand their POV and forces their own narrative on them and forces an identity on them while not allowing them autonomy or a voice, and expecting forgiveness and atonement for things that Scott and Kisa have nothing to atone for, and in reality, it’s Kate and Carlos that should seek forgiveness. 

Kate and Carlos both create this narrative where they’re the wronged party and if only Scott and Kisa would act in the way they want them to, then everything would be better, and Kisa and Scott would feel better. But that’s where the disconnect comes into play--Carlos lacks an understanding of the damage done by Malvado and cannot see that all worship translates the same to Kisa, it’s toxic and harmful, while Kate has never empathized with Scott’s displacement and alienation, and could never understand it, and wields his “true name” like a weapon, just as Carlos wields “Kisa” to hurt her. Ultimately both of them flee into the night, breaking out of their bonds and escaping. It’s such an interesting episode to view from each of their POVs and I wish writers have done something with it. 

Like both Kisa and Scott were taken from their homes and had their names taken from them, their identities stripped and they were forced to learn to survive in a new environment where people were constantly telling them how to be and who to be. Then they were turned into monsters against their will. I just wish we had gotten an arc where Kisa took Scott under her wing because I imagine they would have a lot to talk about and have a lot of common ground. It’d be especially good for Kisa because I think Scott comes the closest to empathizing with her anger and alienation , and Scott needs a good mentor. 

Such wasted opportunities. Sighs.