I have a few “middle-aged” completed fics on AO3 from 5+ years ago that still regularly get kudos and bookmarks. I’ve wanted to add the LLF Comment Project template to the notes to encourage comments because I love interacting with readers. However, I’m concerned that this will change the “last updated date” on the fics and make it appear as if I’ve added new content (when I have not, all the fics are completed). What’s the etiquette here?
Hi @snarky24,
I just tried updating the author notes and even added the "Long Live Feedback Comment Project" tag to a fic of mine and the "Updated" date did not change.
I think the "Updated" date only changes when you add a new chapter to your fic.
Hope that helps alleviate your concerns! If I'm wrong and you do see a change in the update date, please do let me know.
I just found this project and love it so far! I'm still looking around but I noticed a few things and wanted to mention them before I forgot in case no one else has yet, so: could a direct/clickable link to the llf comment builder be added to the llfcommentproject page? I saw it later on the sidebar, but I don't usually look at those so I copypasted the link from the template; very minor annoyance but still one. And maybe a description of what it is with the template/link to it, for readers? 1/2
Thanks for your ask @firecoloredwaterrr,
The LLF Comment Project template does already have a link to a post about the LLF Comment Builder which is very similar to the page the sidebar takes you too. It's this part here:
You are free to swap out the URL in quotation marks which I've bolded above with the link to the page if that's what you want, or if you want to link to, say, the gSheet directly, you can replace the URL with this one:
Concerning modifying the template for links or whispers, an author is always free to modify it as much as they like. So, feel free to go wild on personalizing the template!
I hope both of these tools will help you and your readers!
Hey, I'm a relatively new writer and had my first hateful comment recently. I shouldn't have argued with this person, but I did, and they left a LOT of very negative comments on the thread, including a bit of homophobia and ableism on the side. I froze the thread and they created a new one, so I finally blocked them.
I kind of want to delete their comments, because I otherwise got some really nice ones, but seeing that ruins it for me. Also I'm embarassed at my response (which wasn't impolite . . . just very long and clearly overthought). However, the accusation was racism. I think this specific claim at least is absolutely baseless - in fact I don't think they read the fic - but it feels weird to me as a white person to shut down criticism of racism. Just wondering what's considered appropriate and where to draw the line.
Hi Anon,
For better or for worse, sometimes it's just hard to communicate when you are constrained to the written word as it can be hard to convey nuance in writing since communication cues like body language and tone are absent. And if you're trying to talk about topics like racism which are nuanced and context-dependant, that's not an easy conversation to have in person let alone with a stranger on the internet.
But that is the limitation of written communication, and a large part of the nature of online interaction that we all have to deal with.
If you're looking for feedback on your feedback, I would advise considering asking a trusted friend or several of them what they think. If you have more experienced writers or are part of a fandom community (like on Discord or Reddit), you could also ask for their input as they might have had similar experiences to share and are also clued in to the more inflammatory topics in your fandom and may be able to provide you with more perspective.
Ultimately, the decision of what's appropriate to discuss in a comment thread on your fic lies with you. You are free to adopt and discard any advice (including on this blog) on the matter as you wish. And if you decide that you want to delete that comment thread because it's causing you distress every time you see it, you should know that that is okay to do too :)
Hi, I think what you're doing is really great! One of my fics isn't getting much feedback at all (it's anonymous, so that may contribute to it?) and I'm thinking about adding the comment project template if nothing changes with the next chapter, but I'm curious to hear about other people's experiences with the project, if they've had a noticeable change in feedback or even if they've made new connections in the community with it through the comments they've gotten?
I'll post this ask and leave it to people to respond in the notes.
My latest fic got heaps of kudos and zero comments. I know there have been a lot of discussions here with excuses why readers don't comment, but I think the overarching factor should be that I get literally no benefit from posting stuff aside from feedback. Kudos doesn't cut it. Maybe in future I'll just write for myself and not spend the time and effort of posting it online. If they cbf leaving a measly couple of words then maybe they don't deserve fic in the first place.
Hi Anon, it’s too bad you feel that way. I would argue that kudos is also a form of feedback, but if written feedback is really what want, then perhaps you should reach out to beta readers who you can ask for more specific feedback from? It is your prerogative to post and share your work or not. Just remember which party you’re at and adjust your expectations appropriately.
As a writer, I think it's important to remember that a lot of readers have positive but very mild reactions to things. I generally comment if something excites or specifically interests me. If my response is "that was nice gj" I'll just use the kudos button, and I assume that's what people who leave me kudos are doing. Like, I'm really not that special. Most writers aren't, and that's okay.
[2/2] (“I’m not special” anon here with a second thought) admittedly, a lot of the fic I post is smut, so I do have the advantage of reading a kudos as not just “hey neat gj”, but also as “thanks for the orgasm”, which is a very different category of flattering looool
LLF Response: Glad to hear that you have such a positive interpretation of kudos, Anon! :D According to a survey by @ao3commentoftheday, you’re pretty much spot on with that interpretation. From what we’ve heard, the majority of authors do still prefer comments (even a short “that was nice gj” message) over kudos, so if you are able and feel like it, please feel free to leave a comment!
On the flip side: Authors, don’t feel discouraged if you get heaps of kudos and no comments! Your readers probably appreciate your story more than you realize :) And my deepest respect and appreciation to smut writers and readers who comment and kudos on those fics ;)
Start with a bang, end with a whimper: the problem with fandom studies
Imagine you start talking about a new fic idea, and it’s a hit! People are excited, they’re weighing in, they’re even signal boosting. This is going to be awesome, you think, and you start writing. A thousand words, five thousand words, ten thousand words - the first chapter is a big one, but it has to be perfect. After all, so many people are interested, and you’re using a lot of ideas they gave you, so you want it to be as good as possible.
Finally, you’re ready to publish. One last round of editing, then you hit post. Look!, you want to yell. I did the thing you wanted me to do!
And... tumbleweeds.
There are a handful of kudos. Those are nice, but what do they really mean? Was it great? Was it adequate? Are they going to stay on for the next chapter? A few comments follow. Some are polite “thank you for writing this” notes - those make you smile. About half of them point out perceived plot holes or typos and nothing else.
Where are the people who thought it was cool, who sent you ideas, who talked about wanting to see what you’d come up with? Are they there, lurking; or did they just not see the notification; or did they decide it wasn’t interesting enough to bother with?
Was it worth all those hours you spent writing it?
As authors, a lot of us have been there. As readers, we can sympathize with authors who have poured time and effort into something, only to receive very little response.
And thus comes the problem with fandom studies.
During the data collection phase, everyone is very interested - on the whole, actually getting the information to analyze isn’t difficult, because users are great about signal boosting, answering surveys, and giving their own predictions about the eventual results.
Then it gets to the cursory overview. Demographics, “this many people said this,” a lot of basic factoids that are cool but not very important or relevant. A lot of time might have gone into taking the raw data and converting it to an easily digestible form, but it’s not what we’re here for. It’s just the foundation.
This gets some attention. Quite a few people will reblog it and ask questions, and some will mention wanting to see the actual answers to the questions that the study wants to answer. It’s nowhere near the level of engagement reached in the data collection phase, but that’s to be expected - not everyone who was willing to take a few minutes and answer survey questions or signal boost is really interested in the results, but they were being supportive and helping out!
We finally, finally get to the analysis, the hardcore number crunching, the hours of fighting with excel and desperately reviewing statistics textbooks and sending panicked messages to your old math teachers because wait am I actually doing this right or-
By this point, most of the engagement has dropped off. There are a fair number of likes and a handful of reblogs, but almost all of the written feedback centers around pointing out perceived errors or problems and nothing else.
This is, admittedly, to be expected. Truly math- and stats-intensive analyses are much less accessible, less fun to read, and generally harder to understand even if you’re comfortable with the methods being used. However, it also leaves the study authors feeling like they’ve put a lot of work into something that people simply aren’t interested in, despite the fact that it was the stated goal of the project since the very beginning.
As such, I’d like to make a few suggestions as to how to support fandom studies.
1. It’s okay to say “thanks!” and leave.
You don’t have to write an essay or go over every bit of math. If you’re interested, let the author know that you appreciate their work, even if you don’t say anything more than “this is cool” or “oh nice!”
2. The rules of concrit still (mostly) apply.
When it comes to data, there’s no opting out of concrit. These are facts. If there’s a mistake, it should be pointed out and addressed. However, if this comes in the form of “this should have been considered instead” and nothing else, it’s like getting a comment that only says “your protagonist was OOC.” This is especially frustrating when the author has no good way to respond to the criticism.
3. If you leave criticism or a correction, make sure the author can talk to you about it.
First of all, the author may not have enough details to make use of your crit. If you simply say “I’m not sure this was the right statistical test,” but they’re not able to reach out to you for further details, the author will proceed to tear their hair out. Therefore, this isn’t the time for anon asks, which must be answered publicly, or replies, which may not be able to tag you and group blog moderators must respond from their main blog. Furthermore, criticism is best offered in private - frankly, it’s highly embarrassing to have a mistake pointed out in front of everyone, and it’s much more polite and respectful to give them a chance to make any corrections without having to do so in front of an audience.
And finally, the criticism or correction offered may not, in fact, be correct. Everyone occasionally misreads, misunderstands, or gets mixed up. If this is brought up privately, it’s easy to clear up. If it’s public, and the author has no way to respond, and there’s no “thanks for your work,” they will be screaming into the void.
4. Studies are made to be shared.
The questions a study is trying to address are generally applicable in some wider sense, and the work that goes into this is meant to spread answers as far as possible to people can find them. Therefore, if sharing and signal boosting ends at the data collection stage, the study has failed.
Reblogging is tricky, especially if it’s not to a fandom blog, but sharing it is still important. Send it to your friends, tag people who might be interested in the replies, link to it if you see related posts that could use some data support (or contradiction), and cite it if you talk about the issue. If you’re a stats-minded person, write a more accessible version of it or use it in some of your own discussions. Post (cited and sourced, tagging the author) excerpts. Use it in your fandom metas.
Creators thrive on feedback, and this includes those who conduct fandom studies. Please remember that behind every nifty little chart is a person (or several people) who have put a whole lot of effort into their work, and not number crunching machines who happily churn away and assimilate every bit of impersonal criticism.
Data analysis can be as rewarding as writing a great fic, but when it comes to practicalities, there’s no such thing as information for the sake of information.
Support fandom studies. It’s easy to get discouraged when audience interest goes from overwhelming to tepid to tumbleweeds, especially when the majority of written feedback is neutral or negative. Answering fandom questions isn’t going to help cure cancer - that’s my day job - but it will, hopefully, make fandom better.
Besides, they’re doing math so you don’t have to, which is always a good thing.
So to end this post, we want to give a shout out and thanks to @toastystats for their extensive work and analysis of ao3 tags; @ao3commentoftheday for hosting discussions about commenting culture and looking at the meaning of kudos; @dawnfelagund who has written for us and helps keep the tolkien fandom going, including studies like her look at gender in the tolkienfic community; @cfiesler for looking at fan platform use over time.
We are surely missing more, so readers, can you help us out? Link to a cool fandom study you’d like to share and/or tag someone who writes them!
