What’s crazy about byler is that when the 25th comes around and the ship isn’t canon then the shippers will delu themselves into thinking the final episode will make it canon. When the 1st comes around and byler still isn’t canon then I’m afraid they will come up with conspiracy theories on why byler isn’t canon like the people that shipped johnlock did. It’s going to be a mess.
Yeahhhhh especially now with the new(?) Gaten interview, I really don't know how they'll react. They've been told a few times that while Will has romantic feelings for Mike, Mike is in love with El.(And this is a normal thing to happen both in shows and irl)
I see the tjlc parallels anon, ohhh do I see them. (There's even a bnf that's a lawyer lol) And it's just so....sad? That side of st fandom already devours members who don't think it'll be canon, or have "doubt", so I can only imagine the bloodbath.
And the fact is, byler not being requited won't be some act of production or network censorship. It won't be some ambiguous ending like in the past. It'll just be unrequited because that's the narrative. Because sometimes, regardless of sexuality, people have crushes on/fall in love with their friends that don't feel the same. Netflix has lots of queer characters on lots of their shows, and of course there can always be more, but the fact is, Will is gay. So is Robin, who is dating a girl. It's not censored.
Stranger things isn't a romance or slice of life show--as many bylers like to point out to me--so it isn't going to focus on one or two characters' romance. The romances come second to the plot, even mileven I'd say. The amount of effort that I has supposedly been put into hinting or building up byler is simply unrealistic for the type and quality of production Stranger Things is. To say that Stranger Things is not a romance and then to try to prove that nearly a decade of effort has been put into packing nearly every scene with the indication that mike and will are mutually in love is... Well. It's hypocritical at the least.
People should Ship what they want, but don't get pissy when other fans point out that it is very much not canon and is contradictory to what has been shown within canon
RE the posts about Nancy and Jon just kinda leaving the kids to their own devices; I find it very telling that in season four that despite Steve complaining a number of times about being the babysitter, none of the kids raise any objections to him being the babysitter, despite what it implies about them. It’s Nancy who reminds him “they aren’t babies anymore”.
I used to find that kind of funny, the idea that they might kind of like being babied a bit by Steve (for whom indulging younger kids is still a novelty). And it’s fascinating to me how Mike in particular, despite regarding Steve with utter disdain, feels entitled to Steve’s time and attention. Even *months* after Nancy has broken up with him, and Mike could just follow her lead and not have anything more to do with him, *Mike’s* the one ringing the service bell until Robin shouts for Steve.
The kids are maybe a little bit clingier than we or the characters give them credit for, eh?
(This reading gets really interesting when you consider that out of all the teens/adults, Steve’s probably worked/fought alongside them the most and knows full well what they’re capable of.)
I think Steve being someone the younger teens look up to as both a friend and as a leader is probably key. The age difference between them is enough that it makes a difference in how they look up to him and small enough that they'll be functional equals given a few years, but that they'll still defer to him. They like Steve! I think they like knowing that there's someone older willing to call some of the shots and take the heat y'know? Even if they also want to contribute to the decisions it's nice for them to know he has their backs.
Tbh I think Mike and Steve butt heads for the bit. Like they biker and groan about each other but Steve still thinks of Mike as maybe kind of annoying (as are. All fourteen year olds 🫡) one of his (mildly ungrateful) little friends. Of course it would be Mike ringing the bell repeatedly, he and Mike show friendly affection by being obnoxious motherfuckers to each other.
Sooo correct that what makes it different than Nancy and Jon, was that even though they've all gone through Upside Down stuff, Nancy and Jon went through it together, while Steve went through it, starting in S2, with the young teens. They see him and even though they stop Billy from killing him he saves them (specifically Mike!!) In the tunnels. It sort of establishes Steve as someone they KNOW is going to take charge to help them. They can and have! Mike knows he can rely on Nancy, probably, but he doesn't have the same...proof? I guess? That he does of Steve.
I think it's natural for them, even as they get older, to defer to Steve. He's sort of invincible to them, and they trust him. Does this make sense? They can call their own shots but I think maybe they'll also go "right, Steve?" Even if just in their brains.
how do you think a Stobin body swap would go down? (any season/scenario/au you fancy)
definitely depends on era!
pre s1? Screaming. chaos. yelling and panic. Robin is having a crisis about somehow being in the body of her nemesis. Steve has no idea who he is and that is freaking him out.
post s1? same for robin, but Steve is like ahhhhh what the fuck? ok this sucks but at least I'm not dying? not the weirdest or scariest shit to happen to him. it's not a monster trying to kill him? so it's mostly fine. He should probably tell nancy though. Also robin is mad because she would absolutely blame steve lol.
post s2? (I'm not even going to delve into during a season really because. that complicates things so much.) depending on when, if steve's still beat up robin may take pity on his pathetic sadboy self. She'd also be pissed because now she has to deal with a concussion. Steve is like woah. heart: still broken. Life: getting weirder. Head: no longer concussed! should probably figure out how to not be in someone else's body though!
pre s3? hilarious. they're coworkers. robin blames steve for this. they are scooping ice cream. dustin's there and robin is like listen i am NOT your babysitter I am just in his body. look over there. do you think that's me? Robin? spinning the scooper? no. go to him with whatever you have.
post s3 they wake up and are like huh. hm. this is a pickle! and steve is like what a fucking second i am NOT going to highschool again!! that's the biggest issue they have. Robin says she's gonna make him look bad in front of babes. steve threatens to flunk robin. They barely question it though. very much a "ah. well. this makes sense. may as well happen" they want their bodies back but aren't particularly fussed about it.
at no point is gender an issue they stole that from each other a long time ago without realizing it.
I don’t have anyone to tell this, but you reblogged a pro-slut post so here I am.
I (37) recently moved to rural community and the only reason I’m learning to drive after living in a community with ample public transport is that the closest gloryhole is an hour away.
Anon..... Absolute icon that you are I wish you well. I love you. Go forth and drive safely to your glory hole. 🫡
Heated Rivalry is about gay men. It's an "LGBT series."
Stranger Things has never been billed as such, and that's what makes it different. Its a huge mainstream non-gay-interest-billed shoe that is choosing to reveals its mains as gaynij the final act. That IS big.
As much as I love Robin and Vickie, they were introduced late and have had less overall screentime, both being revealed as queer in the same seasons they're introduced.
Mike is part of a straight relationship that has been part of the global audience's understanding for the better part of nearly ten years. This is not the same as a gay hockey show at all.
All right we are not going to agree on the level of social importance that byler being canon would be. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think the repeated emphasis people replying to my post make on sci-fi as a genre, and then dismiss other instances of rep in scifi because they are not "mainstream" enough are absolutely missing the point. Each piece of media with rep lead to another. A build up, a snowball. Each a little step better. Ellen and Will and Grace and modern family. Legend of Kora and Steven Universe and She-Ra and owl house. They're all steps forward. LoK was massive with that handhold, and word of god confirmation. It was all the network would allow.
But it's not 2014 anymore.
Netflix has created many genre works with queer mains that are not "LGBT series" as you call them. (That... Don't have the same impact? I think is your argument?) Ozarks. Umbrella academy (which I think would qualify for whatever standards you're setting?). Amongst others and shows that are more romance or coming of age or ??? LGBTQ themed I guess. Even Bridgerton has a queer character.
I do not want to reject the individual impact byler would have of people if it were to be canon. I personally do not see it making narrative sense for it to be requited but that is irrelevant to discussing its potential impact. (Well, it does but not for this). Bylers continue to talk about it making cultural or social waves of change. And like. I just don't see it. But I know that the representation *I* appreciate or was earth shattering for me as a kid/teen is not always the most obvious or biggest series. (Or even fully acknowledged by canon)
I also think there's amatonormativaty happening with dismissing the fact that sometimes queer people get crushes on straight friends, and it doesn't ruin anything. But there's an insistence that if Mike doesn't reciprocate Will would never be happy. There's so many ways to write queer stories within non romance genres. While I can see the frustration of a ship you like not being canon or the gay character the only single one of the party, he's still gay. It doesn't mean he isn't representation. Queer characters don't stop being queer when they're single.
and I am going to be so honest. I think all the "slow burn" comments are not accurate. Sure maybe it's slow burn for Will, who has been pining for a while, but for Mike, in my opinion, it would be an emotional and relationship speed run.
But again. We're not going to agree. That's fine.
On a final note, I would like to emphasize just how mainstream Heated Rivalry is now.
Heated Rivalry is a romance TV show that getting more coverage that Bridgerton, a show in a similar genre and similar sex level, on a bigger streaming platform. One of Canada's major national news programs equivalent to CNN or NBC (Global National LINK) did a piece on how it is sparking both more discussion of inclusion and inspiring queer people who stepped away from the sport to get back into it. It's got sports bars filled with people cheering for a gay kiss on the ice.
Just because it is specifically a romance does not mean something outside of that genre is more impactful with representation. We are not on opposite sides, anon. I want more queer rep too! I want more complicated and diverse and deep queer stories.
I just don't think Stranger Things is going to be the show that gives them to me.
Obsessed with the idea of Mike only-boy-yet-still-the-middle-child Wheeler viewing Steve as sort of a hand-me-down from Nancy, and getting kind of territorial and possessive when he thinks that they might be getting back together. Steve’s *his* friend now, Nancy! Just because he’s not Steve’s favourite and they aren’t that close, doesn’t mean you get to take him back!
He doesn’t even have a crush on Steve (because it’s funnier to me that way), he’s just *pissed* at the idea of having to share Steve with Nancy . Sure, he’s already sharing with Holly, but that at least gets him out of babysitting her. They already have fucking *Robin* to contend with…
:0 Steve being Mike's hand-me-down friend from Nancy omg. Once Dustin brings him in Mike is actually on board for it they're snippy bitches to each other. He no longer glares at Steve he's glaring at Nancy he's pushing Steve out the door like "let's gooooo stop looking at her it's pathetic and bums everybody out! Nancy you're not allowed to try to get him back he's OUR friend now! No takebacks!!! Holly gets him because I GUESS she got her sharp little baby fingernails into him first."
Then post S3 Robin's ALWAYS around Steve, and Mike is going okay I can live with this Dustin thinks Robin's cool, we can all be cool. Robin can have Steve while we have Eddie it's cool it's chill. ITS FINE THAT DUSTIN ONCE AGAIN GOT TO BE ON STEVE'S TEAM THE WHOLE TIME THE UPSIDE DOWN WAS BACK AND MIKE BARLEY GOT TO SEE HIM ITS F I N E
S4 and Mike gets back going NANCY WHAT DID YOU DO I TOLD YOU NO TAKEBACKS!! I CANT BELIEVE I WASNT ON STEVE'S TEAM AGAIN
God yeah he WOULD have middle child possession issues. I love him.
god i love when fics have steve experiencing insane things but being nonchalant about it bc he thinks it's normal when it absolutely is not. i like to think there have been multiple instances where other guys have been like psychosexually obsessed w steve so when billy starts acting like that steve's just like "ugh again?" like imagine if when he's dating eddie he's just casually like "god isn't it so annoying when other guys get like aggressively obsessed w you and stare at you all the time?" and eddie is sitting there chanting wtf in his head wondering how steve is a real human.
Ya I think it'd be very funny if kinda very strange things happen to Steve and he figures that it's just a normal thing. He'll be sitting around with people like hey y'all ever think about when you and your friends would dig a big hole and pretend to bury someone alive and hold a funeral for them and then they'd go home and tell your parents you died in the woods? When your mom ran into the forest she found you covered in flowers and dirt staring at the sky thinking about how cool it'd be to decompose into the ground she cried and it was probably the first time you saw a grown up cry? And every one is like uhhhhh no. Our friends did not actually fake our death semi successfully and scare our parents??? And he goes oh. Huh. Weird!
my HC is Robin is Steve first similar age friend that has not wanted to fuck him since eighth grade. This is funny because she has also never been normal about him. No one has ever been normal about Steve.
I think it's also very funny that Billy teamed up with Tommy, who you know has never been normal about Steve in his life. Like maybe when Steve was in middle school there was a guy who also was weirdly obsessed with Steve except he and Tommy viciously hated each other. Like straight up brawling and crying about it and Steve is there like what the fuck are you doing??? And Carol beside him just shaking her head going uhg Steve they're being gross let's leave.
But Tommy and Billy...They sniffed each other out or something idk how but they found each other and were obsessed with Steve together in a toxic positive feedback loop. And poor Steve is sitting here like "uhg 😑 Still? Another one? Why does this keep happening?" As though it's a completely regular occurrence. Bro. Buddy. What is your life actually.
Eddie finding out about this history and he's just like. No. Steve. I do not know what it's like to have men stare at me with thinly disguised lust?? But also keeping to himself that he was ALSO obsessed with Steve. He's like oooh my god. I'm not the only one?? The one thing I have in common with Tommy Hagan and Billy Hargrove is our weird obsession with Steve? What kinda world...
Except he's also immensely smug about it because yeah other guys have been obsessed with Steve. It seems to be a Hawkins right of passage for their age group. But Eddie actually got him. He fucking won.
On the one-sided harringrove post-
I feel it becomes infinitely funnier with bi steve. He likes men, just not Billy. Never Billy.
Oh yeah. When Billy fiiiirst comes to school with his music blaring Steve is head over heels for Nancy, so he might register that the guy with the Camaro and loud music has a good ass, but then billy opens his mouth and Steve is like "oh, no ass can make up for that personality." And continues with his life.
Just. Okay I like to project just a liiiiittle on Steve with him just. Not realizing his attraction to men isn't a straight thing. Like. Of course all straight people feel that way, you just kinda ignore it or don't do anything about it. So Steve is half way between being comfortable in his sexuality and being closeted to himself because buddy used Hawkeye Pierce as the blueprint of straightness.
So Billy is out here, wallowing in self hatred and internalized homophobia, hating Steve and wanting Steve and hating that he wants Steve and wishing Steve would pay attention to him enough for a hate fuck he can cry about later, and it's all very angsty. All the while Steve is just actually completely fine with thinking a dude is hot he's just got standards that include "not racist" "doesn't try to beat up kids" "hasn't made me blackout from head trauma"
Wait. Oh no. I feel an au coming on. Shit. Au where post S2 Robin hears piano coming from the band room after hours and is her curious self going "I must see who is this mysterious genius" and it's Steve. They get to talking and hanging out and all of a sudden Robin thinks they are actually good friends. Best friends. Somehow.
Cue them going to a band party together. Someone spikes their drinks with waayyyy more than they were expecting so they are blasted. Robin has to go pee but does not want to go alone so she drags Steve into the bathroom with her and makes him face away. He's like haha Woah you really had to pee. And she goes shut upppp and washes her hands but sits across from him. Steve smiles at her and gives her his speech about how amazing she is and how glad he is to be her friend (it is like March '85 so he is still not ready to get back out into dating yet). Robin tells him about Tammy. They sing. Someone slams the door open and kicks them out of the bathroom because there's a fuckin line.
They lay on the grass outside and look at the sky. Steve like. Caaaaasually mentions once having thought he was gonna marry Tommy when he was six and then realizing you just didn't do anything about those feelings and Robin's gotta shoot up going WHAT!! WHAAAT? Because it sounded like Steve coming out to her? Right after?? She came out to him??
And Steve is like yeah. Like you don't really have to? Easier to ignore it and flirt with girls who I like or think are hot. And poor Robin's brain is melting she's like please Steve I'm really drunk are you telling me you sometimes want to kiss boys? And he's like yes, obviously, everyone does. Just like everyone also wants to sometimes kiss girls. Except lesbians I guess who only want to kiss girls? And gay guys only want to kiss guy? Yeah that makes sense and straight people don't care but go for the opposite ya know?
Robin is like NO!! And calms down some and says "okay I'm telling you this because you are my friend and you just told me almost the same thing. Steve. I like girls and only like girls. That not a straight thing"
"yeah. You've said."
"but I am ninety nine percent positive that just because you like girls doesn't mean you're straight because you also like boys."
"what"
"yeah dude, I do not think this is a heterosexual experience you're describing. I'm not an expert but. Yeah.
"oh. Huh."
"yep."
"I definitely thought it was."
"your brain is so weird I'm still kind of obsessed with you."
"haha. Honestly I'm kind of obsessed with you. This is wild."
"well. At least I know you're stuck with me."
"ohhh nooooo whatever will I do with my best friend always around..."
ANYWAYS THE ACTUAL POINT OF THIS is not in fact the stobin. It's actually that
Sometime probably in may, when Steve is ready to be on the dating scene again, he gets with Eddie. Robin is happy for him but also so mad because he went from "probably shouldn't act gay even tho everyone feels a little gay sometimes" to "hey Robin what would you say if I said I got a boyfriend?" In less than two months. How does he have straight AND gay game. That's not fair.
Steddie getting together is a non event. Eddie is still like ewww sports and yet somehow he made out with Steve Harrington and the next day Steve asked if he wanted to get milkshakes and throw rocks into the quarry to see the splashes. Eddie must restrain himself from thinking it's a date because he knows it's not but it'd also be the perfect date (Eddie is a simple man)
At the end of the night steve kissed his cheek and says "I had a really great time..."
Eddie just blurted "hey do you want to be my boyfriend?"
To which Steve perks up like "yes! I'd like that!"
And Eddie didn't actually think he'd get that far so he was like "neat!! See you tomorrow!" before slamming the door in Steve's face.
So they're dating and Eddie disparages sports but Steve is like haha aw you don't like watching me play? Which is sooo mean to Eddie because obviously?? He likes?? Watching his boyfriend??? Run around in tiny shorts and sometimes shirtless?? He has to reevaluate some things he supposes.
All while this is happening Billy is still on his Greatest Homoerotic Rivals shtick with Steve. Eddie notices and is like to dude...what is with Billy? And Steve just sighs. Says Billy is weird and obsessed with him and glares all the time. It's a whole thing. Billy is pissed because what is Steve, his epic rival, doing hanging around some random band geek, his sister's bitchass friends, and maybe the local dealer.
Alright. Grad happens. Yay Steve! Poor Eddie. They go to some party , hang out with people, sell some drugs, etc. Billy is unfortunately also at this party, and is like. Lazer eyes boring into Steve's back. Very annoying. At some point, he sees Steve slip away and is like this is my chance so he follows him.
Howmever he comes across Steve, his epic and totally heterosexual rival, making out with Eddie the freak Munson.
And listen this is a scary thing to be caught inna town like Hawkins, but that's not the point of this post.
So Billy goes "what the hell?"
They turn around. Billy is still spluttering.
"what are you-why would you-- with him?!" He says.
Steve raises his eyebrows, alllll cocky confidence. He smirks a bit. Drawls. "Well, yeah. I like cock, billy. Just not yours."
Because the point of this post is that Steve is a bitch.
