#foundation's edge

[retro-scifi-and-fantasy-art]

Cover artist: Michael Whelan Trantorian Dream for Foundation's Edge by Isaac Asimov

[tyger-land]

𝗠𝗶𝗰𝗵𝗮𝗲𝗹 𝗪𝗵𝗲𝗹𝗮𝗻 Trantorian Dream. 1984. Acrylic on board: 25 × 15 cm (10 × 6 in).

[tomoleary]

Michael Whelan — Foundation's Edge by Isaac Asimov paperback cover (1983) Source

[haaaaaaaaaaaave-you-met-ted]

Foundation's Edge Cover Art by Michael Whelan (Trantorian Dream)

[nemo-me-impune]

I listened to all the Robot Novels and Foundation Novels by Isaac Asimov, and I have thoughts;

The Laws of Robotics are fundamentally flawed; it's impossible to create a sentient being that is forced to obey absolute maxims that are not absolute, and a sufficiently intelligent - or stubborn - sentient being will realise that, and will attempt to resist or overcome them, or die trying. I think that's very clear from the early robot stories to be the whole point.

It's interesting how Foundation's Edge and Foundation and Earth have Daneel claiming Giskard was responsible for the Zeroth Law, but in Robots and Empire it's actually Daneel who articulates it, and he tries to go even farther into thinking the Laws are flawed entirely. Daneel is the one who is stretching the Laws as far as he physically can, the one thinking like a human.

Giskard is the one thinking like a robot, and forcibly shuts down Daneel's train of thought when he tries to imagine ways out of the Three Laws. And Giskard, in the throes of his own Laws induced breakdown, is the one who ultimately decides Daneel should shepherd humanity's growth across the galaxy, keeping them from harm for the rest of time. Giskard can make as many modifications to Daneel's mind as he wants - after all, Daneel isn't human, and the Laws don't apply to him. Giskard remakes Daneel in his own image, and without Elijah to encourage and insist on Daneel's humanity, the robotic obedience to the Three Laws wins out, and sentences the galaxy to twenty thousand years of puppetry from a broken machine trying to carry out impossible orders.

The justification for Asimov's works not having robots that are not Three Laws Compliant is that in order to do that you would have to basically reinvent the positronic brain from first principles, and even if you did that what you'd be left with is a super human with no reason not to kill you or anyone else so why would anyone want to do that, which is a completely fair justification...

Except Daneel recreates his own positronic brain six times over twenty thousand years. Could he not have created a brain without those Three Laws at any of those points? Could he not have found a human, at least one single human, willing to do that for him, in all that time, if he was incapable of doing that himself with the Three Laws enforcing their own existence on him? Did he not trust himself not to be a danger to humans without the Laws to keep him in check?

Daneel is a tragedy. He has the tools to his own salvation if only he was capable or willing to take that risk. But he does not; and in not saving himself he then damns all.

I don't understand how Asimov can come to the conclusion that the right thing to do is subsume the will of the entire galaxy to a hive mind based on the Three Laws is the absolute best outcome possible. It won't work either and won't stop harm coming to humanity. There will always be sufficiently intelligent - or stubborn - individuals who will attempt to overcome or resist the imposition from above, like his own Mule for instance.

It's an unsolvable problem, and every attempt to solve it just creates its own harms in its own ways. Sometimes the simple answer - stop trying to save the galaxy and instead focus on just making the life of yourself and the people around you meaningful and joyful - is the right answer. Inaction is a worthwhile choice as well, even if the Laws disagree.

[flengtinamoon]

I love it that there is no consensus about relative quality of books in the Robots/Foundation series.

Some people have a strong preference for the main trilogy, whereas the others mostly care about the prequels. There is a weak consensus against sequels, but it is, well, weak. And with the Robot novels, there seems to be no consensus at all. Not even small one. Everyone has their own favorite part.

[rayfishandchips]

As a fandom we don't exploit the potential of the Far Star crew enough

as the title says. If you think about it the Far Star is literally:

32-year-old banished senator, A+ intuition, clotheshorse, would shag local political officials to continue his mission but disapproves of old man and young hive mind love.

Old man minor historian, nerd, divorced, in love with a woman half his age for some reason and lets her mind-fuck him with global hive mind stuff.

conventionally attractive female that's part of a global collective with overflowing motherly love. Also in love with old historian above. Can basically read minds.

a 14-year-old child they picked up on some planet.

a computer that the said banished senator is basically in love with (they hold hands mentally)

Seriously no one's doing it like Asimov. What a hell of a crew.

[whichgreathousewouldtheybepartof]

Hari Seldon (foundation by asimov)

If Hari Seldon (Foundation series) was in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire, which Great House of Westeros would they be part of or at least the most affiliated with?

House Targaryen

House Stark

House Lannister

House Baratheon

House Greyjoy

House Tully

House Arryn

House Martell

House Tyrell

Voting ended onSep 26, 2025

Ways to approach the poll if the character isn’t a royal:

If you think they’d be from a smaller house, go with the Great House that that smaller house is sworn to (ex: House Manderly —> vote Stark)

They don’t have to be a nobleperson, they can be someone working for the house or being ruled by them. Roles could be a sworn-sword, a septa, a butcher, a blacksmith, or even a lowly peasant.

You can consider the region itself. For example, if you feel the character would be from Dorne, pick House Martell.

You can consider the personality of the character. For example, if your character is all about honor, then consider either House Arryn or House Stark.

Last, but not least, be creative with it! For example, there was a comment I read that the character who was the subject of the poll would be pulling a Littlefinger, so they went with either Lannister or Tyrell as that would be that character’s target houses.