#from unknown graves

[asididaswell]

Crappy pics of the Kaylon for future art purposes because I suffer trying to find specific parts on google

[leonoramaymorgenstern]

"Kelly didn't actually have an affair" and "Isaac with biological emotions is bad, actually" are two opinions about the orville that I will never let go of

[khakilike]

The Orville S03E07 “From Unknown Graves”

[proverbialschoolmarm]

[anbarelectrum]

I’m not a sports fan but I imagine watching From Unknown Graves as an aspec Orville fan is like going to see your team play after an entire season of great games only this time they miss every goal and then your favourite players stop everything to loudly talk about how worthless and broken and incomplete you are—yes, you, specifically, they point right at you and everything—and all you can do is sit there and wonder what you did to deserve being called out like this because they’re still treating everyone else great.

In fact, everyone else is still cheering, like they haven’t even noticed how crappy the plays were or that you’re being degraded for a core aspect of your identity. You thought you were all on the same side here. What the hell is this?

And then you remember that you’re invisible and always have been and also that you only know most of the rules of the sport. The players are demeaning someone they think doesn’t exist and contrary to your understanding of the game your team’s actually been winning this whole time. Well, not your team, they’re not playing for you; they don’t know you exist, remember? At least, you hope they don’t know, because this would be really fucking cruel otherwise.

So I guess it’s nothing at all like being a sports fan, but hey, like I said, I don’t even go here.

8 point fucking 7 on IMDB for an episode that implies a sexless but loving relationship is worthless and outright states that anyone who doesn’t experience love, especially romantic love, especially in the very particular way most people experience it, is “incomplete” and “missing out on one of the most profound parts of life” or whatever the exact quote was. I mean, the loveless character in question also doesn’t really have emotions or empathy in general and that’s all treated as the same “problem” but since handling aromanticism with any grace was too much to ask of this show, we probably shouldn’t even go near how shitty that is for people under the low-empathy and atypical emotional processing and so forth portion of the neurodivergent umbrella.

And do not even get me started on how they were actively a whole different person once they were all fixed up with typical emotions and romantic love and this was viewed as a positive change! Remember, you don’t have to fundamentally change yourself unless other people would feel better if you did in which case it’s completely fair of them to not only ask but make it a condition of their continued presence in your life and you’re selfish if you refuse!

Discrimination isn’t always hatred and physical violence, or “go back home” or “not where the kids can see”. Sometimes it is unwanted pity. Sometimes it is being ignored. Sometimes it is a refusal to see, or to allow something to be seen. To understand that not everyone is like you, and that people who are not like you do not necessarily want to be like you, and if you don’t get that and have no interest in even trying to get that then kindly go fuck yourself.

I am complete as I am, and if anyone who claimed to love me demanded I “fix” myself for them I would run.

…Goddamn it, I really like this show, this hurt more than it should have.

[ladyofdecember]

The abuse of the Kaylons is awful and disturbing, especially the stuff by the kids. You can't blame them for rising up.

[stargirl-bod-owens]

I wonder how initial negotiations went with Moclans. Did it go similar to this episode where all the women were ushered out of the room during important talks or were they even women in the room to begin with?

How old is the treaty with Moclans? Did the union believe in true equality at the time of initial negotiations. It would be interesting to see how the union bridged that gap, and why they didn't use the same tactics here.

[championoftheoppressed]

I just finished watching The Orville episode “From Unknown Graves” and ngl, it felt like a misstep. I think the potential for something really good and powerful was in there, but they just put it together all kinds of wrong.

First, the stuff with the matriarchal society felt like filler, and the implementation of it was so strange. Like... the Union lied to those people. They weren’t making small accommodations to help them adjust before easing them into the idea of male equality -- they just straight up lied. They intentionally misled these people and tried to manipulate them for their own personal gain. And the fact that no acknowledged how fucked up that is doesn’t sit well with me.

Also, why the Union is so willing to ally with people like that in the first place was not adequately explained. The theme of having allies with beliefs that don’t line up with your ethics has already been covered with the Moclans, which this episode even makes direct comparisons to. So the entire thing just felt pointless. The only thing this storyline really added was a few admittedly hilarious one-liners (like Gordon’s enthusiastic “I’ll do it!” when the woman wanted to sleep with Ed). Otherwise, this was just wasting half of the screentime.

Which I hate, because everything else in this episode was far more interesting and absolutely deserved to have the full spotlight. The idea that Kaylon can develop emotions, and the impact that would have on the war, really should have been explored to its fullest. And Claire and Isaac’s relationship should have been front and center for this one, because that’s the part with the most emotional punch -- but for some reason it got relegated to C or even D-plot status here. Somehow John and Talla fucking too hard was considered more important.

I was also pretty uncomfortable with how Claire’s request for Isaac to try emotions came across. They were clearly going for the idea of people in a relationship sometimes needing to make sacrifices and change for one another, which is something of a valid point. But the conversation was so rushed that it come across feeling like entirely Claire’s decision, and something Isaac had absolutely no interest in. It really did not put Claire in a very good light here. It could have worked, but they really needed to show a longer conversation, and make it clear that this was a mutual attempt to try something in order to improve their relationship. As is, it just felt like Claire trying to force Isaac into being someone he’s not.

I did really like the ending of Isaac losing his emotions, and having the choice between erasing his memories to regain them or continuing without them. I love that he ultimately gave the decision to Claire, because even without his emotions, he could tell how important it was to her and he was that willing to sacrifice everything. And I especially love that Claire did not ask him to erase his memories, because she realized that she already loved him without those feelings and couldn’t ask him to give himself up for her. It was a really good ending for both characters and their relationship going forward.

But because that entire plot was condensed into about fifteen minutes at the tail end of the episode, it just didn’t hit all that hard. Again, the entire episode could have been devoted to this plot. Instead of just one monologue, we could have had most of an entire episode of Isaac with emotions, seeing how that affects him, how it affects his relationship with Claire and her sons. It would also have allowed more time to explore the nuance of Claire’s request, to actually explore whether she was justified to ask that of Isaac or not -- we don’t need a clear answer as to whether she’s correct or not, just acknowledge it’s a gray area and let the audience decide. And then have Isaac lose his emotions, with Claire coming to the decision that she loves him regardless and she doesn’t want him to change. That could have been something really powerful, and I’m absolutely baffled that they weren’t willing to let that stand on its own and instead shackled it to this unrelated filler storyline.

So yeah. This episode missed the mark for me, and it’s a damn shame cause I think it could have been something really special.