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"Tippett: I mean, did Einstein discover or invent the laws of physics? He discovered them, didn’t he?
Fr. Coyne: Ohhh. This is debatable, Krista.
Br. Consolmango: Because of course his laws of physics aren’t the final answer. And we’re never going to have a final answer.
Fr. Coyne: But the last thing we want to do is make God a mathematician. I mean, that’s even worse than making God an engineer, like Intelligent Design movement does. Right?
Tippett: OK. Tell me what you mean by that.
Fr. Coyne: I mean, God is a god of love. Mathematics is not the language of love.
Br. Consolmango: Well, depends if you’re a mathematician or not. I’ll put it in a different way. When I was a little kid, nine years old, I remember a rainy Sunday afternoon. You couldn’t go out to play, and you were stuck in the house. And my mom came out with a deck of cards and dealt them out, and we played rummy together. Now, my mom can beat me in cards because I’m nine years old. That wasn’t the point of the game. The point of the game was this was her way of telling me she loved me in a way that she couldn’t just say, 'Son, I love you,' because I’m nine years old. I’m going to squirm and go, 'Aw, Mom,' and run away. In a way, being able to do science and come to an intimate knowledge of creation is God’s way of playing with us. And it’s that kind of play that is one way that God tells us how he loves us. So is it invented? It’s as invented as the card game. But is it an act of love? It’s as much an act of love as the card game.
Fr. Coyne: I like that. Playing games with God. Or God playing games with us. That’s true. Made a universe that has that fascinating attraction about it. Which, doing science to me is a search for God, and I’ll never have the final answers because the universe participates in the mystery of God. If we knew it all, I’d sit under a palm tree with my gin and tonic and just let the world go by.
Br. Consolmango: Which is not a bad thing to do every now and then.
Fr. Coyne: Well, every now and then, but it’d get kind of boring."
- Krista Tippett, speaking with Jesuit astronomers Father George Coyne and Brother Guy Consolmagno.
I talk about Jesuits in Space at the Christianity and Science Fiction conference (via Zoom) organized by James McGrath, 12 October 2021. Focus on A Case of Conscience by James Blish and The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell. Also discussed: history of the Jesuits and Teilhard de Chardin, view of Guy Consolmagno, SJ (Director of Vatican Observatory) about interstellar Jesuits, and research by Joshua Ambrosius about religion and enthusiasm about space travel.
"One obvious way we can let a religion limit our view of the universe is by insisting that it’s doctrines are a complete and final description of nature and God."
- Guy Consolmagno, Vatican Cosmologist
“Any entity - no matter how many tentacles it has - has a soul.” [Guy Consolmagno]
For this Vatican astronomer, the solar eclipse is divine coincidence
By Matthew Bell, PRI’s The World, August 21, 2017
If you ask Guy Consolmagno, science and religion are two things that go together quite nicely. Brother Guy, as he’s known, is a Jesuit priest from Ohio. He’s also the director of the Vatican Observatory based in Rome.
We talked with Consolmagno ahead of his trip to Hopkinsville, Kentucky--the town sits smack-dab in the path of totality and has adopted the nickname Eclipseville--where he planned to watch his first-ever total solar eclipse. Brother Guy had a conversation with The World’s religion correspondent, Matthew Bell.
Matthew Bell: So, hold on a minute. The Vatican employs an astronomer?
Guy Consolmagno: We’ve actually got a dozen of them, and the one joke is that [the Vatican] couldn’t afford a particle accelerator. Astronomy is a great way to use science to introduce people to the idea that the universe is bigger than what’s for lunch, that there’s more to life than your immediate day-to-day needs. And that’s what religion tries to do, as well.
The history of the Vatican Observatory goes back to the reform of the calendar. We don’t have to do that anymore. That was solved in 1582. Today, we exist simply to be a sign to show the world that the church not only embraces science, but supports science. It pays for science. Science is a good thing. The people we have to give that message to more often than not are the religious people, because I’ve often found that scientists know that already.
The one story that people know about, of course, is how Galileo was condemned by the church.
There are a lot of fascinating scientific arguments that really only in the last couple of years people have dug into the original literature enough to see. This is interesting, not only for what happened to Galileo, but it’s a lesson for us as scientists today.
How do we decide what’s right and what’s wrong? And how do we carry forward with our ideas? Galileo was right. We know that now, as far as he went. He couldn’t have imagined a universe 13.8 billion light years and expanding. But certainly to know that the old medieval model was wrong, he was completely right about that.
And yet, there were good scientific arguments. There was also a whole world of politics going on. Galileo didn’t exist in a vacuum. He was there at the height of the Protestant Reformation. His trial occurred 20 years after he had great success selling his books and becoming the Neil deGrasse Tyson of the 17th century, but it was also right at the height of the Thirty Years’ War, and you have to think that maybe that had something to do with why they decided that having dangerous ideas was politically unpopular. All of that occurs even today.
How does something like this solar eclipse highlight for you the glory of God’s creation?
First of all, anyone can see it. You don’t have to have a PhD. You don’t have to have NASA’s Hubble Space Telescope. And the fact is that a total solar eclipse is so surprising and so beautiful.
But, built into all of that, is also the science. We can predict this sort of thing. And during this eclipse, we can see a whole realm of solar activity in the corona that normally is blocked out, because the sun blinds us to it. Then there’s the fact that you can use this eclipses to test the theory of general relativity. So, it’s got everything! It’s got excitement, deep science, wonderful history, and anyone can enjoy it.
But how does a total solar eclipse fit into your theology?
Well, you have to be very careful. You cannot use scientific works to say, “ [...] and therefore, there is God.” God doesn’t come at the end of your science. God doesn’t come at the other end of the telescope. But if you already believe, if you’ve already accepted the reality of this universe and the fact that it can’t explain itself, and that there’s something outside of the universe, and we’ll call that God--if you accept that this is the God that we’ve encountered in the history of scripture, and you look at the universe already knowing that whatever is going on out there, that is indeed the expression of this God, then whatever you find out there is a way of finding out about God.
You get to know somebody by knowing the things they make, the choices they make. And the fact that this eclipse is so beautiful, the fact that it’s even possible! It’s a remarkable coincidence that the moon also happens to be in the sky almost exactly the same size at the sun appears in the sky, so that the one can completely block out the other, without blocking out too much or too little.
Is that proof of the existence of God? Of course not. It’s a coincidence. But maybe it’s a divine coincidence. It’s just one of those lovely tricks of the universe that has to make you smile.
Have you made any interesting connections with people of different faiths, or no specific religious faith, around this summer’s solar eclipse?
Anytime astronomers get together, you’ll find people of every faith, no faith, and people changing their faith every which way. At the Vatican Observatory, we have an advanced telescope at a big beautiful building in Safford, Arizona. And one of the best photographs we have from there was taken by a man who happens to be a staunch atheist. He’s not a member of our observatory, but he let us use the photograph because he likes what we do.
Astronomy is a place where people can get together, where suddenly there aren’t left-wingers, right-wingers, or communists and capitalists. Everybody lives under the same sky.
Are there any special rituals or prayers from the Catholic tradition for an event like this?
Not really. The only prayer I can think of when I’m doing astronomy is the one sometimes referred to as “The Astronaut’s Prayer.” Apparently, when Alan Shepard was about to be launched as the first American astronaut, the people in Houston heard him muttering. The cleaned-up version is, “Dear God, don’t let me screw up.” That’s a prayer I think we can all say.
FINDING MEANING IN THE ECLIPSE
Even though the total solar eclipse is now over, the mysterious and mystical beauty lingers! Here’s Elizabeth Dias interviewing Guy Consolmagno, an astronomer and borther jesuit, for Time Magazine:
What are your plans for watching the eclipse?
The day of the eclipse itself, I’m staying with a parishioner who is way out in the countryside, and we plan to sit out in lawn chairs, sip drinks, and just enjoy ourselves.
Do you know what Pope Francis thinks of this eclipse?
I have no idea, because of course it is an American event. It is not a European event. Nobody in Europe really, except the astronomers, even is aware that is happening. Nor should they be because it is going to be nighttime there.
Is there a spiritual dimension to the eclipse?
Yes, there is. It is simply that it reminds us of the immense beauty in the universe that occurs outside of our own petty set of concerns. It pulls us out of ourselves and makes us remember that we are part of a big and glorious and beautiful universe.
What do you learn about God watching the eclipse?
God could have made the universe in lots of different ways. God chose to make a universe that was rational, so that we could predict these eclipses with enormous precision, and at the same time beautiful, so it is not only that the eclipse occurs just when it is supposed to, but that, along with the delight that our calculations are right, there is the delight at seeing the beauty that comes, that we can experience, while we are underneath this eclipse.
How do you understand meaning in a moment like this?
Meaning is not an answer to a question. Meaning is coming up with better questions. There are so many different ways of spiritually approaching life, many different traditions. Start with whatever tradition is yours, and ask yourself, what questions does this evoke in you? And just ponder those questions in your heart. I am reminded of how we are told Mary understood the child Jesus that she was raising. She didn’t write a textbook on Christology. We are told in Luke’s gospel that she would ponder these things in her heart. And simply to take the time to ponder is not something that we take the time to do.
The eclipse is interrupting a very political tense time in this country. How might that be instructive, to observe the eclipse in this context?
It put things into a context. Most people forget it was 48 years ago this week that Woodstock occurred. And Woodstock occurred at a time of enormous political upheaval in America that dwarfs what is happening now. We were involved in a terrible war. The only thing that people really remember of 1969 was landing on the moon. And rightly so, I suspect, when everyone has forgotten the generals and the politicians and the pop stars, the universe remains, and the universe overshadows them all.
Are there any Catholic traditions or papal histories about eclipses?
Popes have been impressed by eclipse in the past. One of the popes in the early 19th century was shown an eclipse visible from Rome by an astronomer who then got the papal support to found a predecessor to the Vatican Observatory. The great thing about an eclipse is that anybody can see it. You don’t need a telescope, you don’t need an education, you don’t need to be told what it is you are looking at. Anyone who experiences it, anyone who is there under the shadow of the moon will experience the eclipse. From that, we are all under the same sky. We are all experiencing the same thing, whether we are left or right, or how we voted, or what kind of music we listen to. That sense of common joy is something that can both pull us together and also encourage us to then want to learn more. It is a great common experience that nobody pays for and nobody can own.
How would you recommend that people observe the eclipse?
Safely! What you will see will depend on where you are, which is also a lot of fun because it means that everyone will see the eclipse in slightly different way. The simplest rule about observing the sun is, if it hurts, don’t do it. The temptation is stare at the sun hoping you will see something but that hurts your eyes. But during a total eclipse itself, when it doesn’t hurt, then you look, and it is glorious to see.
What would you say to people who don’t get to see the eclipse, or whose experience is interrupted or less than all that they’d hoped for?
The last time I tried to see an eclipse was 18 years ago, and the clouds gathered and it rained right during the time of totality. I missed seeing the spectacular part, but it was still a memorable event. That sense of darkness, the coldness, the reactions of the birds and other animals who were suddenly puzzled thinking it was nighttime, and the general eerie color to the light that still gets through the clouds. All of that is still a fascinating experience even if you don’t get to see the sun itself. So appreciate whatever experience you have and remember that your experience is going to be different from anyone else’s. You don’t even have to be able to see to appreciate it, you can able to feel the difference in temperature, you can hear the difference in the animals and the birds.
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Vatican Astronomer’s Tough Bible Claim: A Literal Reading That Leads to Young Earth Creation Theories Offers Up an ‘Almost Blasphemous Theology’
Vaticun astronom'r an' planetree scyintist Bruther Guy Consolmagno bleevs at literal reedings o't' Bibull at lead sum Christyins ta reject sartin scyintific theeries an' conclude at t'Earth is yung constitute a “bad” er un eve “blasfemyus theology.” Bruther Guy Consolmagno (Vaticun Observa...
