We know from the can of Mackerel that Marleyan writing or even language (though that might be far-fetched) is different from the one on Paradis Island. Growing up in Elida, Reiner must be able to read it (he is prob. just pretending not to recognize it / a soldier at that point). Does that mean that the Warriors came into the walls illiterate? Do you think they were taught Paradisian before, or that they had to learn an entire new writing system?
Reiner was already suspicious of Ymir, so this was a perfect opportunity for him to confirm that she originated in Marley. As one of the most intelligent characters in the manga, Reiner is perfectly capable of pulling a con on Ymir. I feel like he pretended not be able to read the can to set her up.
I head canon the Marleyan Eldians as being largely bilingual. While people in foreign countries isolated from their ethnic groups lose their language quickly, the Eldian internment was with other native speakers. When I compare it with areas of the United States like New York’s Little Chinatown, where the language and culture have been retained for longer than a century, I think it’s likely that Reiner's first language is the same language as those on Paradis.
The bigger problem with the world building of the herring language is that anyone from Paradis who is currently in Marley (Eren, Trapdoor-kun for instance) would have to be fluent with the Marleyan language, writing and customs so as not to arouse suspicion. The four year time skip would allow for this, but I hope we get a full explanation at some point.
Regarding the language used by Marley and Paradis, they speak the same language don't they? Zeke mentions it to Mike before having him killed.
The Eldian people living in Marley and Paradis speak the same language. Zeke and Mike are both Eldian. But the language on the canned herring in Castle Utgard has led many of us to believe that the native language of Marley is different, since the supplies at Utgard were likely items Zeke brought with him from Marley.
Do we know what language was on the herring can or is that still a mystery?
Still officially a mystery, but I think the easy and obvious answer is that the supplies were Zeke’s, brought from Marley, and thus labelled in Marley’s native language.
And for what it’s worth, I’m pretty sure Reiner could read the label as well. He was only playing dumb to trap Ymir.
Growing up in Marley, Ymir, Reiner and Zeke are bilingual. They natively speak the same language as those living in the Walled World (Eldian) but are fluent in Marleyan as well.
Hi mom, I enjoy your blog! I have a few questions about Ymir's backstory that I wondered if I could pick your brain about? I agree with you that Ymir's backstory story worked in the narrative and was quite poignant but I keep coming back to that herring can. The language on the can looks like the ancient writing that even Grisha can't read. I know Ymir would be older than Grisha, but not by so much that such a language gap makes sense. The titan who recognizes Ilse seems to confirm her story tho
The herring can has been a source of endless speculation! It’s the meta gift that keeps on giving. Some of my favorite old crack theories and posts are about that herring can. A long time ago, @snkception and I discussed this and had great fun using the term “herring language” for the writing on the can, and “herring people” for the speakers of the language. Good times!
So let’s do this… here are some things to consider…
Ymir can read the “herring language”.
Reiner may also be able to read it. He might have pretended not to in order to set Ymir up. He already suspected her of being from Marley, this was a good chance to find out.
The herring can and bottle of wine may have been left at Utgard by Zeke, It’s likely he was using the castle as a base while looking for Reiner and Bertoldt.
Ymir, Reiner and Zeke all natively speak the same language as those living in the Walled World.
Commercial canning began in 1813 so the can of herring can’t actually be that ancient. The herring language must be in use somewhere at present. And who would eat ancient canned herring anyway?
When I look at all these facts and speculation, I begin to wonder if the canned herring is actually a series red herring. We thought it was a clue to something significant, but maybe it means nothing.
The best and easiest answer is that the present day Marleyans are the herring people and natively speak the herring language, while the Eldians speak the walled language. If true, it would make sense that the Eldians living in Marley would be fluent in both languages.
I’m open to any other thoughts and theories about this!
How many fraction do you think exist outside the wall? Who is MT and what is his goal in life? Who is most likely to die in the last chapter of this arc? Who left the food at castle Utgard?
So momtaku and I have both received this ask, which means that you get an exclusive peek at the behind-the-scenes operations of the titan investigation agency, anon. The debate unfolded thus:
How many factions do you think exist outside the wall?s: 42m: Agreed. It is the answer to life the universe and everything :DD Who is MT and what is his goal in life? m: Marco, obviously. His half eaten body was salvaged by “Romana” in Trost and he was transformed into the Beast Titan. s: And now he roams outside the walls forever sad that he won’t get to join the Military Police as he’d dreamed? Who is most likely to die in the last chapter of this arc? s: Idk but I want it to be Rod m: As long as Dr. Freeze survives, I’m happy. Who left the food at castle Utgard? m: I think Reiner did as part of an elaborate sting operation to prove that Ymir was gay. s: He’d been carrying tinned fish around with him everywhere, just waiting for the moment to strike
… We felt these answers lacked a certain something (that starts with “c” and ends in “redibility”), so then we made an effort to summon our inner Isayamas and take a stab at these questions, with the caveat that neither of us has any clue. At all. Wild guesswork follows under the cut, and momtaku and I will divide up the questions for efficiency’s sake. I’ll kick off this party with lengthy theorizing on the Utgard food and the number of factions outside the wall, so you have been warned, speculative tl;dr ahead!
The thing that’s got me wondering, in terms of the herring found at Utgard Castle, is how come the labels are in a different language to begin with. This food is, literally, the only indication of linguistic diversity we’ve got so far; the only other time languages come up is when the Beast Titan asks whether he and Mike can understand each other. And, yep, they can. RBA also communicate in the same language as the people within the walls. There’s some kind of a lingua franca that exists in this world… and then, out of the left field, comes tinned herring with its mysterious script.
So! Options:
1) Herring language was at one point spoken by some people within the walls
We know that there used to be different races and peoples in humanity’s past, so it makes sense there were different languages too. When moving behind the walls, people probably brought goods from their cultures with them, and mystery herring may have been along for the ride. There’s no saying if the original speakers would retain the knowledge of the language after the mind wipe. It is theoretically possible, but my vote would go to no, because IIRC so far we haven’t encountered anyone speaking their distinct language within the walls. (Well. Like I said, it hasn’t been a thing in general, but not within the walls, either.) Also, I feel like the royal line would be really happy to erase differences in language alongside racial differences and… any kind of differences, actually.
So: there’s a possibility that herring language used to be just another language spoken among walled humanity, except that they no longer remember it.
The Ymir issue: if we assume that Ymir comes from outside the walls, and yet she also speak this language, then it would follow that some of the original speakers of the language remained outside the walls (and eventually produced Ymir).
2) Herring language was spoken by a minority bloodline within the walls
One way for people to not forget the language and keep speaking it after the mind wipe would be if those people belonged to a minority bloodline whose memories were not affected. You know, like the Asians, only the… herring people. Canonically, none of those bloodlines except the Ackermans and the Asians rebelled against the king, so it would have to be a non-rebellious bloodline just quietly eating its herring in Utgard Castle.
Idk, I find this possibility pretty iffy even if I had to raise it for the sake of thoroughness.
The Ymir issue: this would make Ymir part of the minority herring bloodline (no, seriously, I’ve just typed the words “herring bloodline”, what is life).
3) Herring language was/is spoken outside the walls, by someone who squatted in Utgard Castle
We know super little about what’s going on with whatever is left of humanity outside the walls, so this is a possibility. Maybe the language is a thing in some parts. The castle is close enough to the wall that you could conceivably imagine someone using it as a base of operations, and the herring, then, would be among their provisions brought in from the outside.
One of the big caveats here would be that Utgard is within Wall Rose, so it was firmly in human territory until the fall of Wall Maria. Any potential invasion/squatting would have had to happen in the last five years and not before that.
The Ymir issue: in this scenario, Ymir would have to be part of the group from which the raiders originate, or at least related to them linguistically. That group, over this course of this highly speculative post, has gone from “Ymir’s people” to “herring people”… Good times.
All of this is like 99.999999% conjecture, and it’s entirely possible that I’m forgetting some very obvious other options. Or maybe I’m completely wrong about this world’s linguistic diversity. Anyway, this brings us neatly to the next question, which is factions outside the walls.
It seems that, whichever way you slice it, unless Ymir comes from within the walls, there would have to be a faction outside of them that she was a part of. So that’s one, potentially. The warriors are another. Again, we know nothing about them, but they seem to be a thing. The Beast Titan doesn’t sound like he’s directly affiliated either with Ymir or with RBA, given their reactions to him, but momtaku will chime in with more thoughts on this topic in her part of this speculative effort =) It sounds to me, though, like he might be faction three. That’s all I’ve got so far, but I can easily imagine there being more factions than that, or, conversely, fewer. It could be that there’s a huge number of people somehow surviving outside the walls somewhere, all with their different motivations and goals in life. Or it could be that some of the factions that seem to be from outside the walls actually have more ties inside the walls than we think.
Time will tell…
Please head over to momtaku’s part of the post for her wise answers to the other two questions! =)
