Your post about Gilbert's will to live hits on an idea Ive had about him bouncing around my head now, that he is meta aware about being a nation and that hes been trying to game the system throughout his life to cheat death or the natural cycle of rise and fall that nations experience. This I think explains his multiple self reinventions, which while other characters also go through, he seems to do especially often. From the Teutonic Knights to Prussia to some co-manifestation with Ludwig of the German Empire to East Germany, it feels like repeatedly hes gotten to the point where he should die but instead he makes some dramatic change that allows him to persist a bit longer. On top of that his seemingly unprecedented ability to revive the HRE as Ludwig, which I personally love seeing as a play on Frankenstein, and the fact hes still lingering even after the cold war, maybe trying to find another loophole to prolong his life, adds to this cheating death motif that seems central to his character. I also tie this to the grief hes experienced of seeing the Knights Templar and later HRE die. Id love to see someone explore these ideas in greater detail.
YES!!! In my personal hc about "nation reps" (a discussion ive included under read more, if you are interested) Gil figured out a way to cheat the system. That is, if you want to keep on living, you have to keep transforming yourself, over and over, even if its painful, even if its arduous. (Its kind of an oxymoron because theyre immortal and by nature, unchanging, but thats what makes it interesting)
I also think that his grief w HRE strengthened his will to live and continue on, but at this point, I hc that he has realized, or at the cusp of it, that the downfall and thus death of beings, such as immortals, is just inevitable. Or maybe he is tired of cheating the game. Maybe his transformation doesnt necessarily mean reinventing himself but creating another self - in the process, he becomes someone who destroys to someone who creates, kind of like a god but in a different way. And thats how I explain why Gil chose to keep/create Ludwig instead of taking his name and representation.
If i do write this story, I am divided over the eventual resolution: that Gil finds a new way to keep on living, as he always does; or he accepts that all things pass one way or another, and he isnt afraid of that. Unlike before when he sees what happened to Templar and HRE and the other loved ones that were eaten by time. I think the latter is more poetic, simply because i am sucker for tropes where MCs go on a journey of self discovery only to realize and accept the harsh realities (epic of gilgamesh anyone?)
Thank you so much for sharing!!
More on "nation reps" - ive always hc that thr concept of nation reps are terms invented by humans to explain what the main cast are. Yes, they represent the kingdoms/republics and all of that, but they are not necessarily those nations. Meaning if a kingdom is damaged by famine or war, you dont see them getting ill or wounded from that. It is happening around them yes, but they get wounded if they got hit, or get hungry because they didnt eat. These events do normt affect them automatically. But they are the symbols of that nation and they lose their immortality if they lose that status
(These reps and the actual countries are commentialistic or parasitic - if you count think about how these reps need to latch on something to represent to survive but these reps might not do what u like them to do)
Another hc that i have is that in the super early days, reps were seen as graces or gifts from god, regardless of what religion it is. Their existence is closely knit in different creation myths across the world, and maybe around ~17th century, reps were seen as the will of the christian gold for kings to rule, and so it was important that the reps got along with the rulers (spoilers: most of the time they did not). Some kingdoms have the reps occupy high level positions or were part of the close decision making circle, but this is not always. This perception though slightly shifted a bit when monarchs started to weaken, and reps were either seen enemies by the people (for siding w monarchs) or servant of the state (if reps sided w the revolution).
Regardless of these shifts, i like to think that reps have responded to history with their own self interests. They may be symbols yes but they are still selfish autonomous agents, some who may act out of perceived selfless valor, others with petty grudges or inherent greed. One thing that i like to think about reps is that they are incredibly selfish. It is wired within them the hunger for domination and conquest, this desire to take and control and occupy. An eldritch-like cannibalistic urge for their own kind. It may seem grotesque, but i like to hc them as eldritch like beings, so the way they love each other is to take, the way they survive each other is to take as well. This, mixed with them trying to act as humans by marrying each other or labeling each other as family, makes this entire thing a little bit tragic. But personally i think there is a story to be said about them knowing this urge and loving each other regardless, because their affection is genuine but expressed only in the way their nature allows them to.
(I also have some lore ideas about the 'origins' of these reps and how they think they all began but im reserving that for anothee time akdjkssn)
Random thoughts on Gilbert because uni's been keeping me busy and I haven't gotten around to drawing/cosplaying in a while:
I think modern day Gilbert differs quite a bit from how he used to be (somewhat?? supported by canon??). Taking the historical context into consideration and the oftentimes extreme ideals of religious devoutism, masculinity and imperialism surrounding him at any given time he was probably not doing very well back then. Who you could be as a man was (and still is in many ways) restricted to narrow and often unrealistic standards. What I envision is him being inconsiderate, traumatized by war and lashing out at other people because of what he's done and what he has endured.
Modern day Gilbert has finally healed and processed some of the things he's been through.
Adding on this: not saying he was always some brute, I do think he had his sweeter and softer side as evidenced by Gilbird being around in earlier comics and Gilbert even making him clothes around the 18th century ish???
This takes place pre the Napoleonic Wars I believe, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Anyway he's always had a "less manly" side to him in the form of empathy for smaller creatures and how nurturing he is to them (and Ludwig/HRE).
That brings us to my next idea; I think Gilbert had a wake up call when he suddenly gained a younger brother who depended on him during some tumultuous times. It was then he realized he couldn't go on as he had and made efforts to become a better person, for Ludwig's sake. He did not deserve to endure the same, harsh conditions Gilbert had endured at his age, and perhaps he finally realized just how damaging it had been to grow up in a strict, fanatical and militant environment that did not allow you to be different. Now I don't think he fully just drops it all and moves on, we do know he values hard work and is a bit of a perfectionist still and romanticizes his past somewhat, but I think he improved upon these practices and developed a more healthy way of being.
Now onto the immortality stuff. Sure, in reality the personality changes in this series happened because Hima developed the characters and got rid of some cringy/insensitive/problematic traits. I do however think you can make a case for it making sense in universe as well. The unhinged Gilbert we meet in the beginning of this story shows up around the mid 1700's during the War of the Austrian Succession. At this point he's already been around for at least 500 years. That's half a fucking millenia! What I propose is that you won't always cope well with immortality, and that he at this stage is pretty badly bruised by time and memory and experiences far beyond that of an ordinary person. Since we do see nations older than this act relatively fine I propose that it can be a bit of a make it or break it point for them, but that they usually find their footing again.
A totally sane and normal Gilbert about to commit a war crime by executing an enemy who has surrendered. Also showcases a surprisingly dark side as mentioned before. (Battle of Grunwald 1410)
Really taken out of thin air, but given how many kingdoms subsequently dissolved as a result of the unification 1876, you could make out some grim implications for the Hetalia universe. These nations are dead as far as we know, or at least faded completely into obscurity. Given that Gilbert and Roderich arr the only ones that make it out of this (history nerds will know that the Großdeutsche Lösung never happened, so Roderich can presumably be removed from the picture) one has to wonder what that implies for Gilbert. Was he chosen to remain? Would everyone truly be ready to die for this? It's a bit muddled and we probably won't receive any answers anytime soon, but it is possible Gilbert signed their death certificates and never looked back, even though he refers to the other Germanic nations as cousins or brothers. Eerie stuff.
Anyway! Modern day Gilbert, as we see from later comics, is a bit of an unemployed used-to-be. He marvels at long Furbies and oftentimes just appear to provide commentary, rather than play an active role in what's happening. So I reckon he's calmed down considerably (perhaps also due to unspecified health issues associated with the dissolution). While he still is eccentric and boisterous he is not as actively involved as before.
Fearsome Teutonic Warrior pathetically pleads for breakfast he could definitely make himself. Right after this Ludwig offers him leftover marzipans and he throws a small fit over it, saying he "can't eat things with faces because he feels bad". LMAO (unspecified modern day setting around New Year's Eve)
And yes I'm sorry to say it but we have to face it. Gilbert is at best slowly losing his immortal powers, at worst actively dying. I think it's genuinely troubling that he's shown actively giving things of sentimental value away in a comic dealing with this topic, as if he isn't expecting to be around for much longer. This comic also hints at the HRE=Germany thing being something he might provide a closure for, as he is the one who watched over a "dying" HRE.
Gilbert suspiciously being reminded of HRE and then giving away an item he previously prescribed sentimental value.
Gilbert lies about his injury. He knows this doesn't bode well and is keeping it a secret (for now).
This has been haunting me for years now and Hima just left us hanging, but I'm also in the ASOIAF fandom and I WILL wait 14 years for a conclusion if I must.
This death might be bittersweet and not entirely tragic, though. Hear me out. I think Gilbert, having lived as long as he has and enduring so much in a lifetime, might be exhausted. As long as he is certain Ludwig will make it without him I think he will go in peace. Will still sob uncontrollably and scream like a banshee and kill Hima before killing myself though.
Anyway Gilbert the blorbo the squinkly the scrongly my number one beloved I just wanted to ramble about him
Do you think why nations can't kill their boss? For example the king is so bad that many people died from starvation and its the best if the king killed but why nation can't kill them?
I think it's because Nations lack inherent free will when it comes to their own Country's politics and fate. Regardless of their personal sentiment, it has been shown multiple times that they cannot revolt against the established power until their people revolt first and successfully enough to witness the emerging of another leader/boss (whether it's one single person or a group of people). It seems a Personification cannot truly exist without always having someone to obey to, which I guess betrays the fact that Himaruya isn't an anarchist - though it's also de facto true? All human establishments have a guide, whether forcibly or by peer recognition ... We are inherently social animals, and with that comes the need for hierarchy to navigate our society. Family is inherently the first form of hierarchy and 'regulated society' we get acquainted with ever since we're babies, so it's pretty much ingrained in our nature (we sort of inherited it from apes, too, after all animals living in hierarchy groups are pretty much living in very rudimentary forms of tribes - and Countries are basically tribes on a much larger scale).
Anyways,
This need of always having a boss to obey to can be seen very well with Russia: forced to help the monarchy in the bloodbath of the repressed manifestation and failed revolution of 1905, and despite that he would later be crowned as the Personification of the USSR and serve the side he had been previously forced to shoot less than 20 years later.
As this old strip seems to suggest, despite lacking free will, a Personification still has a human side, they aren't mere tools or vases, so the relationship they have with their own people and government can be very complex as they are aware of their inescapable role but also have their own emotions and inner world to deal with. This is, personally, why I think Personifications prefer to engage with each other and tend to mentally disassociate from human doings, because otherwise their mental state would get even worse as their relationship with their own people and government often implies the frustration of feeling like a puppet, sense of guilt, delusions of persecution (as shown above, because I guess often times especially when things aren't going well, many humans confuse the Personification with their own government assuming they're the same thing) and so on.
Another shown example is France, taking pride in the stylish and rich fashion and lifestyle of his ruling class before the Revolution of 1789, yet later being forced to adopt and quickly finding new pride in the more sober style adopted in Napoleonic times.
The way I personally see it, is that Personifications are forced to always have a leader to obey to, in some shape, because that's truly just what human nature is like on a larger scale. Even when in 'revolution' times, most humans always seek a leader, a guru, someone whose words, drive and judgement they can be confronted with - and they usually become the new government, whether de jure or de facto.
Personifications are also implied to have no voting rights, even nowadays, because it is not their job to decide. They represent their own people, but do not technically count as an individual of their own when it comes to geopolitics, so they cannot take any important decision in their own hands. All they can do is respect the times and wishes of their people and obey their boss (which acts as an intermediary between other humans and the Personification), whether happily or begrudgingly, for as long as it takes for their people to find the motivation, cohesion and strength overthrowing a government takes. And in that case, only once that happened, a Personification can obey the new government.
I think, the only scenario in which Personifications aren't as strictly tied to the orders of their own government is, paradoxically, when they've been conquered by another Nation. In that case, it seems that the Personification of the conqueror Nation becomes the intermediary between their own boss and the conquered Personification, with the conquered's legitimate government losing power (at least to a degree) in these Personification-boss dynamics. So in that case you get Personification-Personification hierarchy dynamics.
This makes sense if you think that the power a boss has on their Country's Personification is a temporary gift given to them by the Country's people letting said boss to be in power (whether because they fervently agree with them, out of habit - monarchies - or because they currently lack the tools needed to remove them) ... Therefore, there is no reason why they should have this power over a different Personification, at least at the time of their conquering, because it is not the conquered Personification's people who allowed that boss to be in charge of power on their account. This might change a bit throughout time (and I mean, decades or centuries), but overall it makes sense that in this case a Personification has more power over another compared to a human.
Hi, can I request the darkest fantasies of yandere axis members?✨️
I love how you sent this 10 min after i started posting. I love you for it btw, you are now the subject of my yandereness. Congrats! (lol) I will also do the 2ps just for you:D
Anyways here are the fantasies!
1p Germany/Ludwig Beilschmidt
So wants someone to be like a yandere towards him as well, in the bedroom preferably. Basically he wants to be loved like he loves, and he wants to be so secure in the relationship that he can give up all control in the bedroom sexy times
1p Italy/Feliciano Vargas
He wants to let go of all that holds him back and have the trust of his darling for free use basically, this doesn't mean he'll do something you have as a hard limit, it just means that he can do what he wants when he wants and you'll be eager and willing, to a certain extent of course. He doesn't want to really hurt you though
1p Japan/Kiku Honda
He knows this one isn't realistic as he doesn't have magic but he really wants to try to live out hardcore hentai scenarios like tentacles (he is in control of them)
2p Germany/Lutz Beilschmidt
The thought of having someone so devoted to him they would encourage him to kill anyone who looks at his partner is really hot to him. And then ofc fucking them so hard they need medical care while still loving it and begging for it.
2p Italy/Luciano Vargas
Blood, he wants to do all sorts of unspeakable things with blood, period blood, normal blood, doesn't matter. Though never to the point of a blood transfusion unless his blood is compatible and being used for it. The thought of you with his blood is a major turn on. But if you tried to leave him he'd do it if you don't have the same blood types, so you can never leave him
2p Japan/Kuro Honda
so i think for him and a childhood friend it would be to give each other a bit of your souls. Binding you forever, akin to soul mates, meaning that you can keep each other alive with this connection and all sorts of crazy things. And yes reaching out to touch the other's soul via this connection can be very pleasurable and is also part of his desire. The dark part of this is that he will basically own you, as he is proficient in soul magic, a magic anyone can do regardless of other magical abilities, also the hardest form of possible magic. He is so possessive that he wants to effectively own his partner for all eternity, woooo
Some Lore lol
so i haven't touched much on the magic system in my version of this world, but soul magic is what keeps 1p Prussia and 1p Romano alive, as their brothers unknowingly share a part of their souls with them, making that as long as the brother lives, so does said "should not be alive" country
Kuro knows this magic because he's an opportunist and he has a Katana blessed by the gods and it can take his victims souls (including his own, which is why he's super protective of it) and it powers him physically, making him dangerous as fuck. He's the last person you'd want to fuck with, and most of the other 2ps are not aware of this because he keeps his most powerful card a secret. He's not seen as a super powerful 2p, in reality he is one of if not the strongest, this comes through through many aspects, such as a high intelligence, tactical knowledge, charisma, and soul magic.
hold up himaruya had a tumblr account? people chased him off tumblr? what?????
Ah, yeah, it was in the 2010's. He had an account on tumblr to interact with fans and post, I don't really remember what exactly happened to cause the fans to chase him off, or if it's still up or not.
I joined Tumblr like shortly before he was chased off and I never looked for his account, hell I'm not even sure if he had one for certain cause at that time I was more concerned about personal life things than, I just know for certain he was chased off a website at least. Maybe a Old Gen fan who remembers can help with knowing what actually happened.
Pls tell me more about your universe where nations are public and are public meanaces to society. I think it would be super funny,
I haven't really incorporated the idea in any fics or anything, but realistically speaking, nations have got to be known in the public eye. I know when I first started writing for the fandom, I read one fic where nations were considered top secret so I sort of followed in suit for the longest time. Now, the idea of them being very well known and figure heads is hilarious. It also makes more sense canon wise (but like who cares about following canon).
They're akin to celebrities but it hasn't always been like that. Definitely with the modern age of communication and technology did that start. Think kind of like how Presidential elections changed with the change from radio to television. Appearances became important and hiding their identities has become near impossible. Nations have always had obligations but now, the expectations are different.
Paparazzi spotted Alfred having a sneezing fit at Walmart and now there's article after article of what's wrong with our nation; Alfred knows people think this and will do shit on purpose if he's in a mood. Arthur gets piss drunk at a pub and says some based shit about the Royals and work scolds him like a child the next day but he doesn't give two flying fucks. The shit Alistair will say in interviews because it's a right laugh and nothing else.
They get used in commercials to sponsor whatever because the endorsement of the United States owning Mustang or drinking White Claw is huuuuge.
Several nations have been executed for the stuff they've said and done but they stroll up to their government the following day carrying on because they know you are stuck with them.
I'm afraid I don't have a lot of specific things regarding this. I just find it extremely funny and I'll happily consume any in universe memes about it.
(The context for this photograph I imagined was some old guy having it lying around for ages and when the nations were publicized he took one look at England and went: “Wait, I’ve seen that guy before!” And sends in his “1989 Apparition” photo)
(I have obviously not drawn the photograph, link for sourcing!)
I’ve had the idea for a WHILE- I thought that since Nations are basically eldritch cryptids that personify an entire POPULATION, they’d be the uncanny valley for humans to look at. Like those generic faces that doesn’t exist and are AI-made, they’d be a mix of every single face of their nation, their voices would be completely generic and so would their accents.
It’s just a headcanon for some universes, because imagining England with a norfolk dialect makes my heart soar- But generally, imagine for England: PURE, and I mean PURE RP.
America having the most generic, unauthentic American Accent and for other countries just the cleanest version of the language. Like having a camera be permanently just slightly unfocused, or the volume in your headphones being just a tad bit too quiet; You’d feel like something was slightly off about them, but you wouldn’t be able to pinpoint what it is - And you’d probably brush it off because they just fit in and are so NORMAL to you
So like knowing how nations work in hetalia is it possible that someone has tried establishing a micronation in the hetaliaverse to manifest a country boyfriend
