Teen titan fanfiction: Magic and Hinduism, how Jewish characters fit into polytheist world and Fantasy Alien world based on places on earth
@the-lighthouse-lit asked:
Indian Hindu Raven character
Hello! So my thing is only a fanfic but it’s my baby and I want to make sure it’s well done. The fic is a Teen Titans High School AU and I wanted to make the character Raven, who was always coded as Hindu (especially in the 80’s), actually Indian and Hindu (specifically half-Indian, but raised entirely by her mom, who’s 2nd gen Tamil, Shaivite—this is because Raven’s dad is canonically the Devil so I’m just gonna make him white).
First off, the story’s magic realism, and though it’s a High School AU, Raven’s still magic. I’ve been wondering if it’s alright that, alongside her being a practicing Hindu and me showing her praying, meditating and celebrating holidays, she also practiced more mainstream Pagan occultism, specifically tarot and stone divination. I wrote it this way because it seems natural to me that, as an Indian American who’s into magic, she’d pick up things around her that seem interesting even if it’s outside her tradition, the way I did growing up (I’m a white Catholic Latina). To be clear: all magic works for her no matter the origin, if that changes anything. Plus, as a superhero story, this world is a Fantasy Kitchen Sink: there’s aliens and fairies and demons and time travel.
Second question: one time they have to face a spirit who’s possessing a person and stealing the souls of kids, trapping them in a middle plane invisible to the material world. Raven’s in charge of magic so she’s at the forefront of this mission. The solution (and I’m being vague here as this is a spoiler, but if you want details I’ll provide them) involves astral travel, and I do have a good reference of that in the Yoga Vasistha, but I’m stuck on the other part rest of it. Originally I wanted them (Raven and her mom) to follow a ritual out of the Atharva Veda to essentially exorcise the spirit; but now I’ve researched more about what it takes to correctly utilize the Vedas, I’m not sure if I can imbue her with the authority to do it: could she be considered allowed to chant the mantra at 18 years old? Could she have mastered Sanskrit and been taught a pandit for years to the point where she can? Or should I stay away from the Vedas altogether? (I’ve gotten the sense that the Garuda Purana, which also has chapters associated with exorcism, is more accessible, but it’s Vaishnava literature and I don’t know if they could they turn to it since they’re Shaivite?)
I’ve also found folk Hinduism rituals I could follow (for example the book on Google Books called Indian Witchcraft, it’s mostly pages 40 and 93-94 if you look it up) but unfortunately I can’t find a reference that fits what I need from the scene (mainly the fact that they don’t know where the villain is in body, and all the rituals I found need the possessed to be there), and I think taking a part of the ritual to the letter and making up the rest would be really disrespectful?
Whether or not I involve the Hindu texts, do I need to stay away from mantras? If so, can she instead pray for protection? Can I set the action in a Hindu temple (before a Hanuman statue)? Can I invoke the idea that in the temple she’s protected, that the gods nudged the outcome in her favor, that essentially they did the work and saved the day? Should I treat it as an exorcism? Can I have her treat the villain as a pishacha? Or should I leave Hinduism out of it entirely, and invent a magic-based solution with a battle in the astral plane?
I’m sorry if this is jumbled, but basically I have three scenarios in my head: a classic rite out of the Atharva Veda, a completely magic-based solution, and a middle ground (where she’d battle the villain astrally but with her body under the protection of the temple).
Jewish characters in Polytheist settings
Branching off from this: I didn’t realize this until I found the two asks you answered on Jewish characters on polytheist settings, but if I do have that Hindu gods saved the day in this mission, that would mean Hinduism was ‘proven’ in a way no other religions in my work are (the other main characters are Jewish, Jewish, Christian Orthodox and Baptist)? And also one of my Jewish characters (plus the Baptist) are reluctant to solve the situation magically (not so much skeptic of the ghostly situation itself, more like they think they should investigate through material clues), while my other Jewish character is all in on the magic solution. Is there a way to mend this? Since I don’t think I can lower the divinity of Hindu gods as mods suggested for that other post as that would instead be problematic towards Hinduism? (For reference, the way it ends is the group splits up, and both groups end up having a hand in solving the mission.)
Fictional Alien Country, combining other country elements
Last question, about Starfire. Since she’s an alien in canon I wanted to make ‘Tamaran’ its own fictional country, like a Genovia or a Wakanda situation. Is it okay if I make up a country in a setting that has otherwise all real places? And it takes elements from different countries? It would be located somewhere between Russia, Ukraine and Georgia, formerly part of the Russian empire and now its own country, and mostly Orthodox Christian. The country would have Slavic naming conventions but their own language (as in I take some of the Tamaranean words from the TV show). (This country’s backstory never actually comes up, only I know about it. What comes up is her Slavicized name, her celebrating Christmas on January 7th, and speaking Tamaranean.) If there’s problems I’m thinking I’ll downplay everything and make ‘Tamaran’ a federal subject of Russia. Just for reference, I want to keep her redheaded and golden-brown-skinned, so she’s mixed in my story (ethnically Russian and Black).
Thanks a lot for everything you do!
Disclaimer: I (Abhaya) was brought up with the traditions of both my fairly devout Oriya Brahmin family and fairly devout Bhagnari family, as well as the religious teachings of the Chinmaya Mission and Shirdi Sai Baba. My answers come from my own experience and knowledge, as well as specific research I did on these concepts. There will be a variety of answers that come with this question, and answers will vary from person to person. This ask has been reformatted such that the questions can be answered individually.
The first thing you need to do is think about why you chose these individual aspects. Understand what is a reflection of your bias and experience, and deconstruct the reasoning behind your choices. Find what sticks out to you in your research and think about why you find it intriguing. Try not to cherry-pick the things that stick out to you if you’re going for realism and not coding.
On to the questions:
1. Can Raven do tarot and stone divination as a practicing Hindu? Justification: as a magic user who can perform all types of magic she would ‘naturally pick up on this’.
Answer: I guess? I know Hindu teenagers who got into tarot and astrology, though most of them were not particularly devout. I might emphasize that her usage of these methods is a way for her to perform magic in a specific manner. Reference this post [South Asian fortune teller] to find and avoid some of the common pitfalls of the ‘magical South Asian’ character. Naturally getting into something really is a matter of exposure and whether a person is in regular contact with this, or has the impetus to get into it. Talk about how she got into it and not just that it is part of her life.
2. Can Raven use a ritual from the Atharva Veda as an 18-year-old, or is that unrealistic for her age and background?
Answer: The mastery of these religious rites is dependent on her upbringing; was she brought up to know and understand the meaning of them? I’ve been learning about Hinduism since I was three, and that still mostly encompasses my family’s traditions and beliefs. I am not fluent in Sanskrit despite having exposure to Hinduism and prayer since I was very young. I personally don’t have much experience with Atharvaveda due to a combination of family history, continued stigma, and limited access to accurate and detailed translations that do justice to the original Sanskrit, as again, I am not fluent.
If you truly want her to go through with this ritual, I would emphasize her learning how to do it under the direction of a guru. Most Hindus don’t directly read the Vedas these days; there is a wealth of oral tradition and philosophy that comes through the community as opposed to the books themselves. The ability to read Sanskrit is dwindling these days because many are unable to access the tools to learn and apply the language.
Please do not just have her think of it as something she can just pick up and do randomly. Indicate the amount of contextual background that goes into reading and understanding the Vedas in their original form. For example, the Atharvaveda has a basis in some of the poetry of the Rigveda--she would have had to at least know the contextual references before delving in.
3. Can I use some folk rituals from Hindu communities?
Answer: Having referenced the book Indian Witchcraft, I wouldn’t use those rituals because I don’t think it would come across very well, and as you said, there are requisites that the scene doesn’t have. Given that Raven can use a variety of magic styles, I suggest using something else.
4.Should she stay away from mantras and simply pray for protection?
Answer: We do, in fact, use mantras to pray for protection and blessings from the gods. Mantras essentially give a standard prayer–some can be devoted to protection, some to blessings for luck, some to blessings in love, etc. You could use mantras in this context if you know what you’re looking for and do some research into a specific prayer.
Plus, mantras aren’t the only form of prayer, even limited to just what is spoken. There are bhajans, kirtans, aartis, and many more devotional songs that incorporate instrumentation, dance, and audience participation.There are many ways to learn, ranging from learning through oral tradition in temple or with family, to learning in a guru-shishya relationship through music, dance, or philosophy, to reading and analyzing the texts, to individual composition involving the known elements of mythology and nomenclature, and many mixtures as well.
In terms of the mantras themselves, I personally would go with a short invocation, e.g. the Gayatri Mantra, then a prayer to Ganesh, then have her go into the Hanuman Chalisa, assuming you have time for her to do so. The flow of the story may work better if you show her praying and describe her actions, then denote the mantras she used later, in your author’s notes. Think of how her prayer works in context to the scenario, and then decide.
5. Should she treat it as an exorcism?
Answer: If she is expelling the spirit from the person, it is an exorcism and can be referred to as such. If you feel that the term has too strong a connection to Christian and Jewish tradition, you may prefer expulsion, cleansing, etc.
6. Can Raven treat the villain as a pishacha?
Answer:
Is the demon characterized as a pishacha?
Do you understand the mythos behind the term and how they are typically described?
Do you make this clear in your writing and denote the villain as a pishacha?
If your answer is yes to these questions, then the demon is a pishacha, as described, and can be treated as such. Use clear description and demonstrate where the influence is coming from in your writing. If not, I wouldn’t use it because it would be more of a confusion than an addition to your worldbuilding.
7. Can the ritual a) be set in a Hanuman temple, and b) have the outcome influenced by the gods?
Answer:
a) Potentially; consider if Raven has a particular connection to the temple through childhood, etc., collateral damage to the temple itself, and how you want to treat the scene. An active temple is going to have ongoing puja during the day--what will the civilians and pandits do in that situation? The main mandir will usually also have other murtis established around the central focus--what are you planning for these? Will the temple be damaged or destroyed in the course of the conflict? Temples are designed to be safe places of worship and connection with the divine--I’d say it’s fine to assume it as a place of protection and spiritual power for Raven.
b) Having the gods ‘do the work’ can get really iffy. I would have Raven pray and recognize within herself the righteousness of her action. Either way, if she does a rite or astrally projects, show that the power comes from her and any invocation she personally does. In the Mahabharata, Krishna sides with the Pandavas, but does not act as a combatant, even though he had acted against previous villains such as Kamsa and Shishupala. He speaks the words of the Bhagavad Gita on the battlefield to Arjuna as Arjuna faces the crisis of fighting against members of his own family. This demonstrates the blessing of the divine on the Pandavas, but shows that it was the five brothers and their allies that achieved righteous victory in Kurukshetra, even though Krishna was present as Arjuna’s charioteer.
As such, I would have Raven parallel this by seeking the blessings of Hanuman, but achieving victory over evil through her own means.
8. Should Hinduism be left out of it entirely, and a magic-based solution with a battle in the astral plane be used instead? Or some kind of middle ground?
Answer: This is dependent on what you want to include in your writing. If you want the mentioned aspects of Hinduism to be accurate, you’ll need research, an understanding of your personal bias, and respect for the material you’re conveying. If you want a different solution with a battle in the astral plane, that’s up to you.
9. In reference to our previous posts, should she not use this as it ‘proves’ Hinduism to a team of multiple religions including Jewish and Baptist characters?
Answer: I’m assuming you’re referring to this post and this post. In my opinion, it depends on how you write it. If you don’t actually have the gods present, but show Raven acting according to Hindu principles as she battles the villain, I think you can get around it. I believe it is possible for religions to coexist in their current states, but one cannot be provably above another. Thus, they cannot have a more significant presence. That’s why I would emphasize Raven succeeding on her own merit, with blessings behind her, as opposed to having specific divine interference.
In short, I think it’s possible to use this, but it’s not going to be to everyone’s taste, and you will have to deal with that in the course of your writing.
Here is some commentary from the Jewish team (including one gentile mod) about the problems with Jewish representation in a canonically, demonstrably polytheistic world:
Jewish characters in a universe with author-created fictional pantheons (two combined asks)
Short version, it either comes out unfair to the group being represented or unfair to us, and it’s okay to leave us out if this is the direction you’re going.
-Shira
Can Tamaran be made a Slavic country somewhere between Russia, Ukraine, and Georgia, that is mostly Orthodox Christian, and has its own, Slavic inspired language?
Short answer: yes, it’s okay. As per your example about Wakanda, that is exactly what Marvel does. There are real places, such as New York, and fictional countries that co-exist alongside real places. We have several posts regarding cultural mixing and influences and respectfully navigating that, so do a search for those worldbuilding tips.
~Mod Colette
Longer answer: You can do this, but remember that any part of the world is going to have a history that you’ll want to delve into if you try to insert a separate sovereign nation into an already existing country. Establishing a fictional nation, even when you have the bones of it laid out, takes work. Take Genovia: the history is well outlined despite taking place in a world where all other countries operate by their regular conventions. The information wasn’t all apparent in one book–establishing a full aspect of the setting like that takes time within the narrative and outside of it, from a writing perspective.
As for the language/dialect, look here for Mod Rina’s guide to the barebones of conlanging and consider the extent to which you plan on using it.
Alternatively, you said that this High School AU will be a Fantasy Kitchen Sink. You could potentially leave Tamaran as it is, and have Starfire still retain her original background. It’s up to you.
Final note:
This is fanfiction. You get to decide how much realism it does or doesn’t have. If your goal is representation and realism, you’ll have to do the work to make it accurate and respectful.
~ Abhaya
