I Think The Van Speech is Seen A Bit Differently By Queer Audiences (Explanation)
(Or at least, possibly more layered)
Hi it’s Nate! Man who has too many feels about a two hour movie again, having yet more feels!
In some back and forth discussion with @bi-leigh-bi and @viridianpanther about the van speech and NIcky’s very much “oh fuck, homophobes” sigh, I am having some more EXPANSIVE thoughts. Also tagging @ink-phoenix
First I recommend demand reading Leigh’s Original Excellent Post, as it’s a complete precursor and the ground work for this.
I know we talk about the van speech over and over again, and yes, I’m about to do it, yet again. Because there really is just something so goddamned monumental about it. But I think, more importantly, it’s a close-to-home direct call back to something that queer people can, sadly, relate to.
The reason that the Van Speech gets the traction that it does is not only for Joe’s incredible eye-watering declaration, nor for how it spins the common toxic masculinity machismo narrative in action movies on it’s head, but also because how for the subject matter it doesn’t feel out of place.
I’d like to expand more one day on how in The Old Guard, the villains have been considered ‘boring’ in reviews. But I’d like to argue that it’s that said ‘boring’ that MAKES them so frightening. They’re the same every day nasty people we all know and live with. Which is infinitely more terrifying than something fantastical, if you ask me.
Keeping that in mind, considering that the movie takes place I think in 2019, and the characters in question are ‘standard humans vs men in the 950′s’ there’s a terrifying real world humanness to the guard.
Nicky wakes up to very quiet chaos. He wakes up to Joe pleading quietly at him for him to do that (wake up), and arguing with the Guard’s who keep trying to silence him. (Ain’t that a metaphor). Nicky fully comes to consciousness to:
“What is he, your boyfriend?”
And promptly reacts with the long-suffering dreaded sigh of a very old gay man who knows exactly what is to come. And he’s waking up at the disadvantage in that scenario too. He’s struggling to shake the knock-out gas out of his system, bound hand and foot and barely has his eyes open, and that’s the first non-Joe thing he really registers.
And for queer people, it’s not just the words. It’s the fact that, historically and even today, we can NEVER be sure what is going to follow those words.
For queer people, hearing that biting, mocking tone is a sign of a few things, some being (but not limited to)
1. Further aggression. (Violence? Is it violence this time?)
2. Nothing. (We tend to hope for nothing, but are not always so lucky)
3. We don’t know. (Is he going to gang up with his buddies now? Is this a situation that’s about to go from ‘mildly irritating’ to ‘really deadly’?)
For queer people, the sigh is the dread of mental preparation, even if nothing IS going to escalate we don’t know that. Even if it it just ends with scoffing and mocking, we never know when it’s about to get worse.
The sigh can be everything from exhausted annoyance, to quick-thinking mental preparation that puts your entire body on high-alert. Ready to fight whatever is about to come.
And here’s the other, very important element of that. A gay, interracial and interfaith couple of the last 920 year is more than aware of that. This is honestly one tick on the “Been Aggressed for Centuries’ bingo card they’re both familiar with. And Joe knows that as well as Nicky.
They are both quickly thinking the same thing here. They know they’re in danger (whether it’s minimal or possible) and being lead to the even more uncertain fate in Merrick’s lab. (Leigh’s original post, again excellent, explains why the van speech is for Nicky and not the guards, so I won’t go to deep into here). And Joe knows that Nicky is scared (Joe’s just as scared, but Joe’s got the benefit of full-consciousness here) and the added benefit of ‘protecting Nicky is second nature’.
With such fear and uncertainty at play, Joe IMMEDIATELY takes control of the situation.
“You’re a child.”
And that gets the guard’s attention (and interestingly, draws their attention away from Nicky for a moment) which Joe cues off on, and immediately has his eyes back on Nicky. Because now, with the instant threat away from Nicky, Joe can focus on him more clearly.
The entire rest of the speech is for him. For both of them. Joe is saying, in his speech, (without actually saying it), “I got you. We’ve done this before, we’ll do it again. You’re safe-I’m safe, these people are a blip on the radar, right babe? No matter what, we’ve faced worse people than them. We can do this, we’re used to this shit.”
Doesn’t make it EASIER mind, but it’s a good reminder. We are still in control. We will fight back. They are not separating us. Goons will not take you from me, okay?
And I like to think that by reassuring Nicky, that by watching Nicky’s face, by seeing him react, and absorbing him, Joe reassures himself too. Interestingly! I think Nicky nicely returns that reassurance. He has one line, but it’s more than enough.
“You incurable romantic”
You got me. I got you. I’m with you. We’re on the same page, we always have been, always were.
The kiss is also for them and them alone. Because if they never see each other again, if they never have the ability to be together again, then at least there’s one last time.
There’s the element of hope there too-and yeah, they do kill the guards and all, but that doesn’t really put the ball in their court. They still don’t know what’s coming after.
History is messy. History is up and down. There will have been periods of time in said history where Joe and Nicky had an easier time of things. More acceptable, more open-and periods of time where things were really fucking bad for them. And they can never really know which period or scenario that’s going to be. They’re always going to have one small element of ‘alertness’ in the back of their heads about it. Because they have to. As a couple they have so many elements of ‘this is what society hates’ working against them.
And in other movies, that might be the ‘this is where we make it very sad and angst-ridden’ but in The Old Guard, they survive. Every time.
And man if that doesn’t feel so good to see.
To some, the van scene might seem fantastical and out of place. Like Joe just suddenly has some big romantic declaration out of nowhere. But for queer audiences, for any audience that is used to living an existence where this is a regular scenario (homophobia, not being kidnapped) it’s very non-fantastical and very much not out of place.
Because it’s a reality we know in some way.
It’s brilliant. It’s intense, it’s raw. It’s one of the scenes I still can’t watch without a little bit of crying, and there’s SO much to a scene that lasts 1 minute and 24 seconds and it’s one of the most amazing things I’ve ever seen in a film.
It’s written incredibly. It’s acted phenomenology and directed so well. And make no mistake, to queers, it reads with more layers than one might even see on a first viewing.












