#jedi meta

[scrimplications]

tired of jedi characters comparing their relationship to their master with a parent-child dynamic. they dont KNOW that dynamic!

give me more jedi comparing a non-jedi's familial relationship to that of an apprentice and a master - at least that would make sense!

jedi going "yeah, an adult who guides and protects you and you're supposed to listen to them? yeah thats a master- oh, your mom is like that too? neat :)"

more jedi not really understanding non-jedi family dynamics. more jedi being horrified at the concept of someone being rejected or mistreated by their parent, because "why did they choose to have you then???"

there's a lot of interesting parallels between master-padawan dynamics and parental/familial dynamics. i just want to see more of the comparison going the other way.

[jedi-enthusiasm-blog]

Many people have taken one look at this and inmediately leaped to the conclusion that Jedi forbid emotions. Which is, huh… interesting.

What people don't realize is that the Jedi Order are a religious organization, and as such they have their own sacred texts, such as this meditation mantra (because yeah, that's the only time it's ever mentioned, during meditation).

And the trick about this kind of texts is that they're not meant to be taken literally. You're not supposed to take it at face value, you're supposed to think about it, reflect about it, and then interpretate it. I'm sure the average "fan" hasn't actually thought about it beyond "code bad Jedi evil", nevermind that it's not actually the Jedi Code mentioned in the films.

Since it's a meditation mantra, one used to focus to make connecting with the Force easier, it makes perfect sense that this is how you should feel when using the Force.

You shouldn't be overwhelmed with emotions or passions, you shouldn't act if you don't have knowledge. This is obvious: if you can command the essence of life, then maybe you should actually be in the state of mind to do it.

However, the other lines of "no chaos but harmony" and "no death but the Force" don't fit into this. So, what do they mean?

Here is the other version of the Code. It was seen for the first time in the Kanan comics, and is arguably more canon than the previous one.

(People have called it the Gray Jedi Code, which is hilarious in and on itself and another point in favor of the argument that the so called Gray Jedi are just canon Jedi.)

I'm sure everyone can agree that this one is good.

Feel, but find peace in your emotions. Know nothing, but figure it out. Suffer, but look past it to find serenity. Just like there is chaos, there is harmony. And just like there is death, there is the Force.

But what if I told you that both Codes are saying the same thing?

I know, I know. You probably think I'm crazy, but… what if they're saying the same things, in different ways?

To expand on the interpretation that the first one is how you should be when using the Force (and I admit with my whole chest that this is my interpretation), we can say that the Force isn't naturally things like emotion and chaos. They are only what we bring with us.

That doesn't make them any less real. They are, and they are important, but they are subjective experiences. Everyone will have different emotions, different passions, different things they are ignorant of. Even death, even as it will come for everyone, is something private and personal. I don't know what X person felt or thought when they died.

However, things like peace, harmony and the Force are universal.

Chaos (noun): "complete disorder and confusion." "the property of a complex system whose behaviour is so unpredictable as to appear random"

Dictionary definition, bear with me. "Whose behavior is so unpredictable as to appear random". It isn't random, it has patterns and reasons to happen just like everything else. We simply don't know those patterns. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Just because we don't know something doesn't mean we can't learn it. There is no ignorance, there is knowledge. Therefore there is no such thing as chaos, not really, just a pattern, an order, a harmony, we don't know yet. First definition is about human reaction, not anything about the object itself. There is no chaos, there is harmony.

Emotion, ignorance, passion, chaos, even death. They are all feelings, subjective experiences, things that, ultimately, can change as you find new understanding (well, death only happens once and is permanent but you get the point). But inner peace, knowledge (about situations, about people's reactions), serenity and harmony are all universal. They exist, and will exist long after we die, we just have to find them.

And, long as we remember people, as we understand that all lives have left a mark, big or small, we will keep those who have passed alive within our hearts.

Death, yet the Force. There is no death, there is the Force. Or, perhaps…

"(The Force)'s an energy field created by all living things" Obi-Wan Kenobi, ANH

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter" Yoda, ESB

"No one's ever really gone" Luke Skywalker, TLJ

Death, yet the essence of living beings. There is no death, there is life.

[obiwanwhat]

I know someone has probably said this better but. There's really so much about Luke & Ahsoka interactions that can be explored. Because honestly they have every reason to resent each other?

Anakin was arguably much more of a father to Ahsoka than he ever was to Luke (even if he was more of an older brother figure to Ahsoka than an actual father figure). He trained her and built her lightsabers and had a dumb nickname for her and made dad jokes and like - everything Luke ever could have wanted out of his dad. She knew him when he was still Anakin Skywalker and not Darth Vader. She knew Padme!! Padme also was kind of her mom! Luke doesn't even know Padme's name until sometime post ROTJ - it's possible Ahsoka was the first person who could have told it to him.

Not only that, but she had the Jedi Order. She was trained by the Order at its peak, raised from infancy in the rituals and knowledge that Luke now must piece together from whispers from ghosts and whatever old texts he can scrounge up from the corners of the galaxy the Empire somehow missed. He is doing all of this on his own with no guidance, no oversight, meanwhile it's knowledge that came to her as easy as breathing.

And she walked away from all of it. Everything Luke has ever wanted - a relationship with his parents, proper Jedi training, the Jedi Order itself - she had without ever asking for it, and she walked away from it without a backward glance. And she's still walking away from it - she's not a Jedi, she won't claim that title, she won't join Luke's new Order. Maybe she shows up from time to time and tells him some stories and shares from knowledge, but she won't train him, and somewhere deep down he knows that he will never be as much of a Jedi as she is even though she doesn't claim that title anymore, and part of the reason because is she won't help him.

And for Ahsoka's part. Anakin returned from the Dark Side for Luke. He couldn't - or wouldn't - return for Ahsoka, who he trained, who knew him and loved him and would have died for him. He tried to kill her and would have if Ezra hadn't saved her. But this boy, who shares nothing with Anakin but a name and half his DNA - he was enough to bring Anakin back. She wasn't, not with everything they shared, not with all the times she'd almost died for him, and he'd saved her, and she'd saved him. How do you not kind of hate someone for that?

And besides, he's trying to bring back the Jedi Order. The Order that cast her aside as soon as it was convenient for them, the Order that allowed Anakin Skywalker to become what he did and was too blind to see a Sith Lord under their noses and that died for those mistakes. And sure, he's trying to do it differently, he's trying to do it better, but what does this boy know of better? What can he know of the sins of the Jedi Order? When he speaks of the Order with stars in his eyes, what can he know of the pain that she suffered? That so many suffered? How can he correct what he doesn't understand?

I just think it would be cool to see more of that explored in canon.

[inquisitor-apologist]

So some of y’all saw Luke throw away his lightsaber, defying the Emperor and Dark Side’s near-irresistible pull by preventing himself the means by which to realize that temptation, in a callback to Yoda and the cave’s warning that his final confrontation with Vader would attempt to twist every part of himself against himself, including his face, family, and yes, saber, and concluded that the lightsaber was the problem? Embarrassing fr

[merlyn-bane]

okay but can we talk about how fucking good the food would be in the Jedi Temple?? and all of the absolutely fucking baller and totally unique fusion dishes that would have to exist?? they're by far the most diverse group of beings we see in star wars, with lineages made up of people from all across the galaxy. the best food in that galaxy has got to be something from a lineage dinner table that's been made and modified by generations of Jedi and no-one ever wrote down

[greyjedimichi]

I was scrolling on the interwebs and saw something about "Could Revan beat Vader?" and a surprising amount of guffawing saying, "Of course Vader would kick his ass!"

Maybe for his time (and because he is literally the only Sith left) but in the overall grand scale of Star Wars 25,000 years... yeah, no. Vader was only the most power Sith in the galaxy because he was pretty much the only Sith in the galaxy; meanwhile as Anakin, he wasn't even the most powerful Jedi in the room, much less the galaxy.

The Skywalkers are by no means the most powerful Force users to have ever existed; though they are the most influential Force users of their time.

(Ooooh, I'm bound to get some hate for that but hear me out...)

Something I think a lot of casual (normal?) fans of Star Wars tend to miss is that the power scaling of Force users between the different eras is completely different.

The era most (casual/normal/not overly obsessed) people are familiar with is, of course, the era that starts with the prequel era, now known as the Fall of the Jedi.

Remember that Vader is from a lineage of Sith that's basically been extinct for at least a thousand years. Before he became Vader, Anakin was raised in a Jedi Order that believed that the Sith were extinct for at least a thousand years.

This is something that's sure to rile most people but the Jedi of the prequels are relatively weak both as an organization and power levels compared to ancient times.

During the time of the Sith Empire (ie. the Old Republic), the Jedi were the protectors of the Republic who often fought alongside Republic military. Sure, they fancied themselves peacekeepers and academics but when in conflict with the Sith-ruled Empire, they were primarily warriors.

The Jedi of the Old Republic fought Sith directly. Mastering lightsaber and Force-based combat were essential, along with understanding military strategy. Any Jedi that regularly fought Sith on a regular basis is going to be a far more battle-hardened warrior than the Jedi later eras.

In contrast, the Jedi of the High Republic were Jedi raised in an era without Sith; the Sith had been gone for at least a thousand years by this point. Without an opposition with equal capabilities, these were Jedi living in a reality where a single Jedi, either as a diplomat or a warrior, could potentially turn the tide of almost any conflict.

But they were not a military organization; this was repeated several times over the course of Phase 1. While the Jedi of the High Republic were certainly adept clerics, scholars, diplomats, and armed peacekeepers, they were not soldiers meant for large scale battle or deployments.

The Jedi of the High Republic (and beyond into the Prequel / Fall of the Jedi era) are the descendants of a once powerful military organization but their military capabilities had been largely unnecessary for a millenia. As a result, Jedi of the High Republic were more clerics and scholars than warriors, with a few exceptions here and there (Porter Engle) and are probably more accurately described as armed guardians rather soldiers.

Avar, Elzar, Stellan, Reath, Cohmac -- while they were all more than capable warriors, they were all Force-centric academics first and foremost. Their skills with their lightsabers were impressive but still less so than their knowledge.

(Now that I'm thinking about it, Avar may be a bit of an exception to this. She was extremely powerful in the Force but was probably the most warrior-like out of all the Jedi except for Porter.)

I love the High Republic era because it truly showed what the Jedi were at the height of their power. They are powerful in the Force and have a great deal of influence in the Galactic Republic, though were still somewhat independent of Republic rule though they often worked in tandem.

[shadowmaat]

Beware the Archivist's Wrath

*sigh* Yes, I got bit by my own plot bunny, so here's a fuller background for almost-Archivist Obi-Wan.

-

Obi-Wan Kenobi was a bright young student of the Jedi Order. A number of Masters had their eye on him as he grew closer to the age of apprenticeship. Those eyes, however, turned firmly elsewhere when it became apparent that Jocasta Nu had taken an interest in Young Kenobi.

He was a frequent visitor to the Archives, even beyond the supervised outings of the creches. He was quiet (at least within the Archive itself), polite, and above all, curious. He soaked up knowledge like a sponge and if there was one thing the Master Archivist of the Order appreciated, it was a keen mind with a willingness to learn.

She took him under her wing, cultivating his curiosity and nudging him toward the materials that would ease his way on the path to becoming an archivist himself. He'd be a worthy successor to her.

Or he would have been.

Qui-Gon Jinn had always had a rebellious streak, but while it was occasionally amusing to see him butt heads with the Council, it stopped being funny when he ignored all the warnings- subtle and not- and asked Obi-Wan to be his padawan.

If Jocasta had been there, she would have stopped it, but the wily bastard had cornered poor young Obi-Wan well away from the safe environs of the Archives. By the time she learned of it, from Obi-Wan himself, it was too late.

The long-haired terror of the Order had turned the boy's head with ridiculous tales of derring-do; saving worlds, ending conflicts, and helping the innocent. All noble tasks, of course, but also things that could be accomplished with a good archive.

She couldn't blame him, of course; she'd had plenty of her own wild ideas about saving the universe when she was his age. She could, however, blame Qui-Gon Jinn, a man who should have known better but who'd clearly had the sense knocked out of him at some point in his misadventures.

Obi-Wan remained an occasional visitor to the Archives, when his schedule permitted, and Jocasta welcomed him with open arms. She did her best to put her disappointment over might-have-beens aside and focus on preparing him for the life he'd chosen; goodness knew Jinn couldn't be counted on for that.

From that day forward, Qui-Gon Jinn was persona non grata in the Archives. He was unwelcome within her walls and she made sure he knew it. Any requests for materials that he put in became lost or conveniently misfiled. Books and data crystals that he wanted had a habit of being unavailable or having a long waiting list. She had an entire archive full of names and could damn well use them to suit her purposes.

Should he somehow manage to acquire Archive material, she counted down to the milisecond it was due and then hunted him down, demanding its return and levying steep fines against him. Force forbid the book have any smudges, crinkled pages, or other blemishes (even ones that had pre-existed Jinn's loan).

At one point the man actually went before the Council to complain, asking them to intervene in his "difficulties." The Council, unlike Jinn, were not fools and refused to get involved. Word did, however, get back to her, and she made sure that her displeasure over his attempted subterfuge was well known.

One unfortunate fact was that Jinn liked to publish the occasional paper or treatise and Jocasta was obligated to house copies of them. Fortunately for her, the Archives were a large and labyrinthine space within the Temple. And much like the Temple itself, parts of it were difficult to reach, had fallen into disrepair, and in the words of one young Junior Archivist, "smelled weird."

Important works were never held in such locations, of course, but for Qui-Gonn Jinn? Room could be found. Damp rooms in remote areas infested with bugs, cobwebs, and a lack of adequate lighting.

Master Dooku, who had once been a friend of hers, found her "war" with his former Padawan to be highly amusing and attempted to tweak her proverbial tail by requesting Jinn's latest papers.

After being "accidentally" locked in a room for a day with only an ancient torch and a host of curious spiders for company, he learned his lesson and even had the grace to apologize. Unlike some people she could mention.

Her justifiable grievance with Jinn was buried along with him. More or less. Obi-Wan, despite the trauma inflicted upon him by the circumstances surrounding that death, continued to blossom. Even though he'd chosen to be a field Jedi instead of an Archivist, she was proud of the man he'd become (with her help and despite Jinn's interference). He truly was the Guiding Light she'd always known he could be.

Now, if he'd just keep that damn Padawan of his out of her halls...

[b-else-writes]

The Jedi Are the Elite, Not the Underdogs in the Prequels

I cannot believe i had to read with my own two eyes a take that the Jedi in the Star Wars Prequels occupy some of the lowest rungs in society because something something "they're meant to be Buddhist monks!!" and "it's based off the Hidden Fortress and the Jedi are the two peasants!!!" - what an utterly brain-dead take that fundamentally misunderstands how the Jedi are actually portrayed in the story, fundamentally misunderstands which characters from Hidden Fortress Lucas was grafting onto which character, and fundamentally misunderstands what story the Prequels were (badly) trying to tell.

So first, at the absolute most basic level, the two peasant characters in Hidden Fortress (which Lucas pulled most from for A New Hope and Phantom Menace) correspond, in Lucas' own words, to C3PO and R2D2 in the A New Hope, and Anakin and Jar Jar in Phantom Menace, NOT any of the Jedi characters. Obi-Wan, the only explicit Jedi in ANH, was inspired by Toshiro Mifune's character, who is, guess what, nobility (as men/samurai of a general status usually were in that time period). Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in TPM occupy that same role as well. It is Anakin (and Jar-Jar, who was expelled from his own society and an outcast) who occupies the lowest rung in society, because he's a literal slave and it's that very fact that drives the entire plot. Yes, Anakin is Force-Sensitive, but he isn't a Jedi in TPM, and he is always narratively positioned as being "not one of them" throughout the story (more on this in a minute).

Which brings us to point two - how are the Jedi actually portrayed in the Prequels? It's an old hat to be like "they're the Space cops" but, well, they are the Space Cops. The Jedi are part of the bureaucratic systems of the Galactic Republic. They can speak directly to the Chancellor and offer advice, they are dispatched to quell unrest in the Republic's name. Visually, they are designed to convey power and prestige based on Western cultural cues (large buildings with European facades, marble, white/beige clothes that are sweeping and regal, rare genetic magical powers, and of course, swords).

The defense I've seen is that the Jedi do not have power because they aren't in charge and have to answer to the Chancellor/Republic, but this is like saying, "the military doesn't have power because it has to answer to the President/Prime Minister", it's nonsensical. While the Jedi are referred to as monks and practice a veneer of vague Hollywood Buddhist beliefs, in practice, they operate like Samurai (because again, that was what Lucas was drawing from), who again, held high prestige and power in society. They are not the scrappy underdogs or the downtrodden poor. And they are certainly not slaves.

And that's where the fundamental thing comes in of what story were the Prequels trying to tell? Fundamentally, Anakin's fall is a story about the elites in society taking a child who is at the very bottom (a slave) and raising him up onto their level, while simultaneously having nothing but contempt for him, and then systematically failing him at every turn until he decides that the only solution is that the system is completely broken and we should do Fascism (for the record i'm not saying the Prequels tell this story well, and handle it with the subtlety of a brick to the face like Anakin quite literally paraphrases George Bush). Because the Prequels were written in the late 90s-early 2000s by an American man and are a blunt commentary on the elites in the USA failing and sliding into unnecessary war and growing fascism. It's a story about the fall of a society. And for this entire morality tale of Lucas' to work, it would mean that the Jedi are the Elite as well.

And they are - they're shown to be ineffectual and not very smart and their powers have grown weak and they can't see what's directly in front of them! They have become entrenched into the corrupt system. It matters that it is Anakin who occupies the lowest rung in society and not the Jedi, and that is why he is never one of them and what drives the entire story of his fall (for the record (2), this isn't saying Anakin was RIGHT to become fascist).

I think a lot of people try to twist this because they desperately want to love the Jedi (which you can) but can't reconcile that narratively they're portrayed as having messed-up very very badly and that the entire system that they were part of didn't work and shouldn't have been done that way (#maybe Jacen was onto something before he did Space Fascism 2.0), so they try to say that no, no, no, it's the Jedi who are the scrappy underdogs. But to do that is to just completely misunderstand and misrepresent what is actually being presented.