#kh foretellers

[moonlightkitkat]

Who’s that in the black coat?

[smengart]

kh4 is gonna go great

[purely-hearted]

Having lots of feelings about my Foreteller/Keykid OCs

[meteoriccman]

(Guy who only thinks about Kingdom Hearts voice) “this post reminds me of Union X”

[solelii]

Keyblade Concept Arts of the Foretellers and Luxu.

[beefosaur]

ok i don’t have anywhere else to yap about this so it’s going on my tumblr.

The Missing Foreteller

As I’ve recently been replaying KH3 for the third time, it’s got me Thinking, specifically about the black box and those connected to it.

Every foreteller is named after a deadly sin.

• Luxuria/Lust- Luxu

• Avarita/Greed- Ava

• Invidia/Envy- Invi

• Ira/Wrath- Ira

• Acedia/Sloth- Aced

• Gula/Gluttony- Gula

As you may have noticed, the sin of pride, or, going in theme with the latin names,,”Superbia” is completely eliminated from this lineup. Initially, I thought that this meant that MoM himself was intended to represent pride.

I no longer believe that this is the case. And I need you to cast out all thoughts of MoM counting as the 7th foreteller for this theory to work.

There is a clear power imbalance between MoM and the foretellers. He guides them, they look up to him, isn’t one of them. If anything, MoM is more consistently portrayed as something like an mysterious omnipotent entity than anything else.

MoM has not one, but multiple cutscenes in which he claims that his name doesn’t matter, and when he does say it aloud, it’s redacted with a flash of light. I don’t think that this is Nomura trolling his audience. If the author has to tell us the same piece of information multiple times, being that, “MoM’s name is of no importance”, than I believe this is a major hint to the audience rather than a punch-down.

This is where I make the argument that we’ve been asking the wrong question all this time. MoM’s identity isn’t what matters, what matters is the identity of the unaccounted-for foreteller, “Superbia.”

I have an admittedly, kinda flimsy connection, but I need you to go along with it for the sake of the rest of this theory.

Etched into the top of the black box is “XSuper.” This is our only possible hint at its contents. XSuper. Considering we have an unaccounted for Forteller named Superbia, we can conclude that Superbia themself is what is in the box.

The “black box” is more of a “black trunk.”

I understand being doubtful that an entire body could fit into this trunk. So, for this theory to work, Superbia has to be small enough to fit in this box. The only conclusion to be drawn is that Superbia must be a small child. Stay with me.

Now I ask you to ponder the question, “what are the Foretellers purposes?”

Cool. Xehanort tells us himself! The purpose of the foretellers was to trap 7 of the original darknesses within their bodies, so that MoM could discard them.

((Side Note: before you say, “but tumblr-user beefosaur!! we can LITERALLY see MoM’s sprite right there!! clearly this is portraying him as the 7th foreteller!!!” to that I say, I need you to assume that this is Superbia for the sake of argument. This ambiguous figure also fades in slower in the animation. The assumption that this is MoM could be an intentional red-herring.))

But there’s more.

“of the 6 who remained” implies one Foreteller left the lineup. We know who this was, this refers to Luxu, who disappeared for the majority of KHUX. Four were imprisoned in the data-world and two of the those four died there. Ok sure. But “one survived by disguising itself as an ally of the light” ? This is new information, something we haven’t seen yet. YES, like the aforementioned robed-figure, this can be assumed to be about MoM, but as I’ve already established that MoM isn’t a foreteller, this can only be about Superbia.

To recap before my conclusion, these are the rules we’ve established for Superbia’s identity so far:

•They must be small enough to fit inside a trunk.

•They have the ability to trap darkness inside their body.

•They “disguised themself” as an ally of the light.

Ladies, gentleman, and the people that don’t give a frick,, there is only one character who fits this description, and his name is Riku.

The youngest we’ve seen Riku is him when he is 4 years old in BBS, and he is plently tiny enough to fit into a trunk. This checks out.

As for the ability to trap darkness inside them, Riku is the only character other than the foretellers who has been shown to not only have this trait, but for the trait to be portrayed as “unnatural”, as after Zexion finds out Riku has this ability, he quite literally exclaims “what is he!” aloud.

“Disguising themselves as an ally of the light” is kinda self explanatory. Riku is one of the seven lights, but keep in mind that these roles aren’t set-in-stone and are just that, roles. Sora was set up to be a 13th darkness but ended up being a light, just like Xion did. Viewing Riku in this context makes sense. Though, I see it less as “guising itself as an ally of light” and more of “hiding itself among an ally of light” if that makes sense.

But wait. I have even more evidence that Riku is the missing 7th foreteller. Take a look at the last scene in KH3.

We see these chess pieces facing off against sora’s piece. The seventh foreteller’s piece has a heart , with bat wings. Do I even need to elaborate? Riku’s character sigil is a heart, and he’s been consistently been associated with bat wings specifically since KH1.

Speaking of bat wings, look at Riku’s blade.

Hmmm! What do you know!! A Bat wing!! And whoa! What’s that in the middle? MoM’s eye! You know who else’s weapons have MoM’s eyes? Every single one of the foretellers. Notice how, early on in KH3, Riku also completely loses this bat theme as well as the gazing eye entirely from his weapon when Repliku protects him in the dark realm. Hrm. Interesting.

If you subscribe to the Sora-Is-Bait-For-Riku-To-Come-To-Quadratum theory, it makes even more sense. MoM’s evil plot may very well be to draw out the last darkness he wasn’t able to snuff out, the one who disguised itself among the lights, so he can put an end to it once and for all.

What do you(🫵) think of this theory? Has someone else come to the same conclusion before? Do you think I’m stupid and reaching? Let me know! I’d love to hear ya’ll’s thoughts!

[eloanimates101]

MoM and Laplace's Demon; An Attempted Messy Abridged Summary of My Thoughts and This Theory

I know I usually just post art, but I haven't seen anyone talk about this, and while I have many other theories and thoughts I want to bring into public light about KH, I'm still working on that video essay and its taking forever because I really want to make sure to get everything down in thorough and organized detail. However, I had this thought occur to me and I want to bring it up now, as I think it holds some merit and could prompt some interesting discussion.

Do I think its more complicated than simply this? Yes. Is this just one argument/interpretation among many you could make? Also yes, but I want to point this idea out, since I don't think its something to ignore.

I have reason to believe that the Master of Masters may be based off or have taken inspiration from Laplace's Demon.

I know it sounds a little dumb, but this thought started through me listening to Will Wood's "Laplace's Angel (Hurt People? Hurt People!)" (highly recommend it btw) and thinking about it reminded me a lot of the Master of Masters and the Primordial Darknesses. BEAR WITH ME THOUGH, I discovered Laplace's Demon shortly after and really began to consider that the thought had merit.

WARNING SPOILERS FOR PRACTICALLY EVERY GAME IN KH

Let me start with a simplified explanation of Laplace's Demon.

What is Laplace's Demon?

Laplace's Demon was a thought experiment brought forward by the French scholar, Pierre-Simon Laplace, in 1814. Skipping some physics explanations, it suggests that if someone were to have extremely vast intelligence and know everything's position, motion, overall initial conditions, then the laws of physics would make it possible for this person to have complete knowledge of the future and predict it. They would, hypothetically, know the future of every person, planet, and particle and be able to create an entire timeline of the universe.

This concept by extension then suggests that everything is ONLY the result of prior set circumstances and causes, making factors such as free will and chance entirely fake and illusions. Everything is predictable, therefore nothing unpredictable exists sort of thing.

Of course, this argument is what now brings modern scientists and people to argue against Laplace's Demon, as in quantum physics and many other natural concepts, there are always factors of unpredictability and chance does play a role.

That's the best summary I can give, but if you want to look more into Laplace's Demon, here are some links to the resources I used: https://elements.lbl.gov/news/spooky-science-laplaces-demon/ https://www.informationphilosopher.com/freedom/laplaces_demon.html

So what does this have to do with Kingdom Hearts? Well...

Laplace's Demon is extremely rooted in the idea of determinism - arguing that every occurrence in the universe is entirely predetermined by prior events and natural laws. Everything is destined in a sense, and that's where we find our link.

Destiny and Determinism vs Indeterminism

Destiny is a major theme in KH (I mean, come on, we literally start in a place called Destiny Islands and it is an extremely important location to both our main characters and overall universe of KH). Determinism vs. Indeterminism is something that has been brought up on multiple occasions within KH and it has been more consistently brought up as we've been getting closer and closer to the Lost Master's Arc. Below are some small mentions of things/moments as EXAMPLES, but they can hardly do the prominence of the theme justice as it is so overarching and everywhere in the series. A lot of this stuff (and stuff I won't be able to mention for the sake of trying to abridge this) I'd love to cover further in the future:

"I will be led...wherever it is I am destined to go. That us my destiny. But it has yet to become a reality." (Young Xehanort - Re:coded).

The scene where these quotes come from is fittingly named Destiny (https://youtu.be/a7jMWJOAnc8?si=Ab-xIXdhmFgZj5G5). There is a lot to break down here, but the most clear and upfront parts of it are that it is one of many examples with Young Xehanort showing determinism/belief in destiny. (fitting as he believes/is holding out hope he's supposed to be the Child of Destiny. Also very important to note in this scene, he's also speaking to Xigbar/Luxu, who is very interesting in terms of the spectrum of determinism and indeterminism in this series, but more on that another time)

The scene above also leads into DDD, and in DDD, Xehanort's entire plan is revealed to be relying entirely on determinism/"destined" factors with Riku (with the help of the others towards the end) being the indetermined factor that completely derails the whole plan. Young Xehanort's displays annoyance towards Riku and his presence the WHOLE GAME to help drive this point home. (THIS COULD BE A WHOLE OTHER POST ISTG) Below are some of the quotes/moments showing the plan was heavily reliant on destiny/determined paths:

Young Xehanort: "Yes. This was where it started. At this point, I still had no idea that I was talking to myself. He cast away his bodily form just to set me on the appointed path"..."To move through time, you must leave your body behind. Ansem first sent me on my way, and then placed himself here when the time was right. That is what set all these events in motion." Sora: "What are you saying? That he knew everything that would happen?" Young Xehanort: "No, not everything..." Sora: "...How did he know I would be here today?" Young Xehanort: "Simple." (then it is implied that Kairi was the way that they knew. This and a lot of other moments imply that the way Sora and Riku would respond to and interact with Kairi and vice versa were deterministic and destined in a sense. I don't know...sounds like a little bit of criticism towards predictable storytelling tropes and archetypes-) ^ (Young Xehanort and Sora - DDD) "You've been on a path, one we laid out for you"..."Why was it assured you would come here today? Because I followed my destined path, and I'm here looking at you right now. You can move through time, but time itself is immovable. Today, all of my selves throughout time were meant to gather here, and to welcome you, Sora, as our thirteenth member. These facts cannot be changed." (Young Xehanort - DDD) "All of this was decided..." (Master Xehanort - DDD)

Below is one of many examples of annoyance and irritation caused by Riku. Young Xehanort also tries to rationalize Riku's presence. (watch the cutscene for yourself at some point, he sounds extremely PISSED https://youtu.be/1PM1RWs9a-U?si=51Wkebh3aX_EXRRV):

"How did you get here? By choice or chance? You cannot control what you're not aware of. This wakeless sleep will be your prison...to wander forever." (Young Xehanort to Riku - DDD)

Xehanort and Eraqus’s games of Alba and Ater actually playing out the events of the future and how they both play and react to events/moves in the game. Xehanort plays more according to destiny and deterministic views of the future, playing according to logic and strategic calculation:

“On that land shall darkness prevail and light expire…The Gazing Eye sees the fate of the World. The future—it's already been written." "Checkmate. And so darkness prevails, and light expires. You need a new strategy." (Young Xehanort - KH3)

While Eraqus plays more according to indeterministic views and ideas, going so far as to bring out unexpected and “not fair” (which fairness is inherently deterministic while non-fairness is indeterministic) moves, practically seeming to break rules of the game, to win. Breaking the rules of the game is also important to showing how indeterministically he plays:

"Really? I'm not so sure about that. Besides, who's to say I can't change it? And maybe light will prevail." "My move, isn't it? It's not over.” (While evading a checkmate) "Yes, you nearly did. But, a game's no fun if you know where it's going…” (Young Eraqus - KH3)

It baffles Xehanort and has him call it unfair because Eraqus’s moves are genuinely unexpected because they are things that aren’t determinable by anything (the rules of the game, strategy, etc). These contrasting attitudes of determinism vs indeterminism with these two are also shown throughout Dark Road.

BRAIN'S WHOLE CHARACTER/STORY (as far as we know, rest in pieces, Missing Link. God, I could make a whole collection of posts on Brain too, but I'm really trying to summarize, I swear. Just a few among many examples below, but honestly, nearly every scene with him leans into this idea. Also, I'm using pictures this time, so I don't just copy-paste all his scenes lol)

The concept of data worlds and code being used repeatedly in ways that show contrast between determinism (what is within the programmed into code and data) and indeterminism (what is outside of the code and data and how it compares to or interacts with/impacts the code and data). RECODED IS IMPORTANT GUYS FOR SO MANY THINGS

Some other Misc things/quotes that I am actively holding back the urge to talk more about:

- Destiny Islands -"One Sky. One Destiny" - The Child Of Destiny - "...Ah, but destiny is never left to chance. I merely guided them to their proper places..." (Master Xehanort - DDD) - "...And break you is what we shall do. It has been etched." (Young Xehanort - KH3) - "...Someone to dictate their destiny..." (Master Xehanort - KH3) -This:

- And this:

YOU GET THE POINT. THE LIST GOES ON, AND I COULD RAMBLE ABOUT ALL OF IT. If you ever want me to delve into any specific scenes or things, tell me, and I will-

MOVING ON, the characters in this series overall range from seemingly wholeheartedly believing in determinism and destiny to consistently questioning and challenging it, leaning more towards indeterminism. There is a wide spectrum of how these characters perceive the subject that I could delve into, but I think I'll save it for another post because this is getting too long.

However, I will leave a small beginning thought to a larger argument I wrote about Xehanort, though, as another example of Determinism vs Indeterminism and a small preview of how the theme can be used to understand and delve more into the characters and their arcs:

"You could argue that Xehanort's actions/thoughts seem to use this belief in Destiny/Determinism in order to seek answers to old legends. If he's able to create the same conditions as the past, they should be able to lead to the same answers that have been lost to time, no? He is also consistently surprised when things don't follow what he believes is destined/determined. This is not to say that all his determinations are wrong, as I do believe some hold merit, but the ones that do hold merit, I think, are also a lot more complicated than he believes."

Back to MoM

This post is about MoM, though, and he is someone who very much uses determinism to his advantage/enforces ideas of determinism. Some examples and scatterbrained explanations below:

By telling the Foretellers and setting up certain "destined/determined" events and roles, he caused them to quite literally become truly destined through his manipulation and knowing how the Foretellers would likely act. He ensured that the path was determined through the roles assigned, limits, and seeds of thought he planted. The Book of Prophecies is likely a larger-scale demonstration of him using this strategy to have everyone believe there are determined events and conditions and, therefore, enact them. Literally self-fulfilling prophecies.

Responsible for the Book of Prophecies (Prophecies are rooted in determinism/destiny. This Book also seems to be using the way self-fulfilling prophecies work to function, if I had to guess, and likely is spreading misinformation to ensure these self-fulfilling prophecies take place. Additionally, it is subtly correlated by Brain's scenes to a program, something inherently deterministic, and also that further lends itself to MoM using it as a tool to set certain parameters and conditions in place) *AHEM*:

Responsible for the creation of the data Daybreak Town and its program

In Summary, supposedly foretold/responsible for nearly everything that has happened in KH

Misc. Quotes and Things Related (also a lot of images used to prevent myself from just putting all his dialogue lol):

Referring to Darkness:

^ (Small note about the picture above, MoM has created circumstances in which he can predict what they do to a certain extent, since it's shown he tricked them into believing in the Book of Prophecies and what it says)

"When twilight ends, a new day begins. You see, this world exists in three stages. First, countless Keyblade wielders are brought together. Then, as they fight through fear and see their leaders fall, their numbers dwindle, while others learn to stand on their own. Finally, those left must decide what to do when faced with darkness in a sealed-off world. And when all seven of the lifeboat's pods depart, this world will end—and a new day will dawn." (MoM)

^ Shows how MoM calculated and set up certain parameters with these phases.

"A chessboard makes for a small world. Easy to understand, easy to control. Now imagine it expands slowly, one fairy tale at a time, without end or limit. No matter how large the world grows, no matter how many countless lives are spent expanding it, darkness spreads to every corner. It's kind of unfair, really. We can run and we can hide, but you always seem to stick with us every step of the way." (MoM)

^ Sort of similar to how the concept of Laplace's Demon started from the principles behind simple and small physics problems and then expanded those principles to the entire universe. Small-scale expanding to universal scale. And now, knowing how Darkness functions, MoM has managed to account for Darkness as a variable in his own game of 4D Chess.

"Do you know what sets people apart from other living beings? People want to believe in the future, even if they won't be around to see it. I want to believe, too. Believe in a world beyond what we can imagine. A world of fiction." (MoM)

^ I know he's referring to Quad, but consider what this also implies for a moment. Fictional worlds are famously deterministic. There are entire systems of critical analysis that make them deterministic. There are things such as archetypes and tropes, literary theories, and the heroes/heroines' journey and recipes that exist for writing fictitious material. Do you get what I'm putting down here? Not only that, but the lines before it are also important about people wanting to believe in the future. Believe in the stories they've been told about what might happen. So much so that they might try to bring it into reality in their own way, whether it's conscious or not.

"This is war—between people and something entirely different. You can't afford to get sentimental; you need to be pragmatic. I chose this fate for you because I believed you could bear it. Now, listen. There are thirteen darknesses. Of those thirteen, we'll trap the most powerful seven inside the hearts of each of us. We'll all go our separate ways and destroy the darkness wherever we end up. That's the true purpose of the Keyblade War." (MoM)

^ Pragmatic - "dealing with the problems that exist in a specific situation in a reasonable and logical way instead of depending on ideas and theories: practical as opposed to idealistic" (Merriam-Webster) Determinism is rooted in the idea that everything is reasonable, logical, and practical.

"It is. I used the passage in the Book about the traitor...to plant doubt inside all of you for darkness to feed on. For them to take the bait, we all need to harbor true, real emotions. And when emotions grow and clash, they'll get stronger, and eventually the seven shadows will try to take over our hearts." (MoM)

Lends itself to my point about the book as well as him knowing how to account for and manipulate the variable of Darkness in his issues. And there is so much more where that all came from. I can clarify I've made if you ask for sure, right now I'm just spitting everything out that I can put into words, so it is a bit messy.

Overall,

MoM is an extremely interesting character, even with the little we have. I could go on and on about my theories surrounding him and his connections to self-fulfilling prophecies, how he's a foil character to Sora (not actually Sora) and what that implies, or how he's singlehandedly gaslit nearly everyone in the KH universe and spread misinformation and propaganda to the point he's created this extremely fundamentalist, normative, corrupt societal structure and system and how this system has been repeatedly noticeably harmful to everyone within and so difficult to see through/get out of, OR how, along with this, he's created this cycle of consistent generational trauma and the older generation failing the younger generation. These thoughts and theories are not what this post is about, but I find them worth mentioning as they all play a role in his connection to Laplace's Demon, too. Through all these things, he's created a cycle, something consistent and predictable, as it maintains certain conditions and circumstances that he's set into place. He's created a self-fulfilling prophecy. He has made it possible for determinism to exist, as he's made the large majority believe in it and dismiss indeterminism. He's made it possible to BE Laplace's Demon, and he is our very own, making the characters and us as the audience think about these themes and question all these deterministic things.

I must note that all of this isn't to say that determinism = bad and indeterminism = good, though either. There is a lot of gray area to be considered. It's the way the characters go about their beliefs and the actions/stances they take because of them that determines where they are on the moral spectrum, and even then, the morality in the KH universe is also something that consistently needs to be brought into question due to the system/society and the beliefs widely spread by it.

This is an EXTREMELY summarized version of my thoughts and there is so much here I'd love to take a lot further: Where all the characters stand in relation to this spectrum of determinism and indeterminism and what that implies about them and potentially their arc or future, further breaking down scenes that bring up destiny through this lens examining determinism vs indeterminism in KH, how this theme contributes to KH's criticism of society, stereotypes, and literary archetypes, tropes, and patterns, how there's also a lot of connections between determinism and normativity and indeterminism and non-normativity that I'd love to discuss further in relation to KH as I have a lot of thoughts/theories regarding that too, etc. I'll have to cover it another time or in my future video with all my thoughts, though, as I have other things I need to do today lol and it's also gonna take me a while to gather all my evidence and thoughts into text.

If you guys want to hear those thoughts and theories though, let me know! I can most certainly discuss with you or make another post! I find it a lot easier to talk about these things if I am asked question kinda provoked into talking about them lol.

Sorry for the messy ramble and theory, I know it's not my usual content and this is really a first draft just some of my random thoughts summarized, I hope you enjoyed though!

EDIT

If you enjoyed this and find it interesting, be sure to check my page to see if I've made any posts continuing this or to check out Reblog Chains! I'm up to discuss with anyone, and these discussions in reblog chains tend to prompt me to expand on my thoughts and build out the theory more! So, these discussions naturally lead to rough continuations of this theory and thoughts on all of this! Thank you again so much for reading!

[anemo-tangerine]

an imperfect puzzle piece