I can’t believe I have to spell that out, let alone outright explain it. But fine, let’s talk about why Otto’s actions in Superior with MJ are way out of whack for his character.
Basically, Doc Ock wouldn’t view using MJ’s feelings for Peter or her history with him as rape. I just don’t think he’s so dumb not to realise that that’s immoral and him taking advantage of her, which he wouldn’t do.
Now, Doc Ock has taken advantage of people, including women, before and even visited violence upon them. But there is a big difference in each of those situations.
Obviously with Betty Brant, Aunt May, Felicia, Mary Jane and certain other women, Otto has kidnapped them or threatened to harm them. But this has been a strictly functionary action on his part. Person A is of value to Person/People B. Otto wants something from Person/People B, therefore he will threaten Person A in order to get it from them. It’s a clinical and functionary decision. He would (and has) done this with male abductees. It’s not a signifier of his feelings towards women as a whole.
By extension in his pettier moments he’s attempted to harm people as a form of revenge. But it has never been strictly gendered. He bears the world malice in general.
Let’s get a bit more specific though.
With Aunt May he was ostensibly being himself (in personality and body) whilst omitting the fact that he was a super villain. However, his main use of her was as a means of escape and furthering his one true love, science. He wasn’t pretending to be someone she knew. He wasn’t putting on the face of someone who looked noticeably younger or different from himself so that could never have been a factor in May’s affections for him. And he wasn’t sleeping with her! Yeah, that’s kind of a critical difference between his relationships with Anna Maria and Aunt May. Hell, it’s highly unlikely he felt legitimate romantic feelings for her. More likely he had a soft spot for her because she reminded him of his own dearly departed mother.
And let’s remember he displayed lingering affection for May even after she ceased being useful to him. He privately praised her kindness.
He sought to connect with her at Christmas and chose to leave when he realized he’d spoil the holiday for her.
He was upset when he learned she was in a coma and had flowers sent to her.
What about Black Cat? He clearly liked her and forced her to remain in his hideout. Later he nearly beat her to death. The difference here is that Otto never forced himself upon her or tried to use deception to get her into bed. His attempts to kill her only occurred after she betrayed and stole from him, going on to team up with his enemy and actively work against him. Again, this wasn’t a gendered thing on his part. He was avenging himself on a specific person for specific slights against him.
We then come to Angelina Brancale, a.k.a. Stunner.
Along with his associate, Carolyn Trainer, Otto planned on creating a virtual reality construct that could interact with the real world. This construct would be of Otto himself and assume his place in order to avoid Otto risking his life. They needed a test subject though, someone who wasn’t going to be missed. Otto selected Angela Brancale who was enamoured with him and would’ve done anything for him. Angela went through months of sometimes painful experiments with the end result being the creation of an interactive avatar of her own.
This was Stunner, the super strong, beautiful, Amazonian companion to Doc Ock. Stunner reflected the obese Angela’s ideal self-image.
Superficially this one might seem like a clear-cut case of exploitation. To a certain extent it absolutely is, but it is more complicated than that. For starters it’s obvious that Angela wanted to become Stunner and enjoyed being her. There is also no indication that Otto strictly speaking forced or tricked her into doing anything. Yes, she was selected because of her affections to him and how she wouldn’t be missed.
But we do not know if she was briefed about the potential ordeal she would have to go through or if she had the option of bowing out at any point. Carolyn Trainer referred to her as a ‘trooper’ for putting up with all the experiments and the pain they entailed. Carolyn is a villainess but it at least implies that Angela had agency in this situation. Angela and Carolyn later teamed up and seemed civil with one another, which further implies that there was no ill-will between then. If Angela had been tricked or lacked agency that’d unlikely be the case.
Additionally there is no evidence to suggest before or during Angela’s transformation into Stunner that Otto was having sex with her or using sex to manipulate her. There isn’t even any evidence that they were having sex after she became Stunner.
As final food for thought, he genuinely loved her when she was Stunner and it seemed that he connected to her because he understood the suffering she endured due to her weight.
Oh, and of course, Otto wasn’t pretending to be someone or something he wasn’t with Stunner. If anything he was startlingly vulnerable with her.
The only other significant relationship Otto had pre-Superior was with his fiancée. However, there is 0 evidence of him manipulating her during their courtship. He wasn’t even a villain at that point so he’d have had nothing to lie to her about.
Let’s also consider the following regarding Otto’s interactions with women.
This is the man who literally tried to cure AIDs just to save his ex fiancée Mary Alice.
This is the guy who kidnapped Betty Brant and Aunt May to lure out Spider-Man and then offered them tea.
This is the guy who was pleased to see Peter and MJ happy together because it meant his enemy was back to his upbeat and normal self and would thus continue to be the adversary he Doctor Octopus deserved.
And yet @danslott-blog, Slott-stans, Superior-stans, Spider-Fans who are none of those things and just people in general are willing to accept that this guy would be a rapist?
We are happy to say he really wouldn’t even imagine that sex with MJ or Anna Maria would be morally reprehensible?
Just creatively speaking, not in terms of his character or personality, we’re happy to say THAT guy would play in that ballpark and be depicted this way? Shall we be chill if Carnage was outted as a pedophile while we are at it too?
Of course the counter arguments to the above would be that his attempts to sleep with MJ at least were attempts to prove his superiority over Spider-Man. Or to avenger himself upon him in some way.
First of all the entire concept of Superior is broken. It postulates that Otto is seeking to prove himself better than Spider-Man by becoming an improved version of him. But the problem is that the logic doesn’t line up there.
If the only way he can prove himself better than Spider-Man is by literally becoming him and in turn turning him into Doctor Octopus, that’s tantamount to admitting Spider-Man was always better than himself. The only way he could have won is by becoming the guy he always claimed was inferior to himself.
Second of all in regards to his attempted ‘conquest’ of MJ, sleeping with her wouldn’t even prove his superiority. It’s made clear by issue #2 that he’s merely interested in MJ for sex and no other reason. He accesses Peter’s memories of being intimate with MJ and experiences the sensation of her body that way, being implied to masturbate during this internal screaming. Afterwards, he states he’s got her off his mind and the story clearly conveys that he’s going to turn his attention to other romantic/sexual pursuits.
So he only wanted to sleep with MJ and nothing else. Not even that, he just wanted to know the sensation of sleeping with MJ and was content to access Peter’s memories and wank off to that end internal screaming intensifies.
By this logic then he’s proven himself if anything inferior to Peter. And no, I’m not making some kind of judgement about masturbation. My point is if Mary Jane consented to sleep with Peter, but has not done that with Otto, then by definition Peter would have accomplished something Otto would not have. If you remove sex from the equation and just said Otto was trying to ‘win’ a mere kiss from Mary Jane and she didn’t do that, but she had done so for Peter, then by definition Otto would’ve failed where Peter has succeeded.
The fact that he was content to move on from her by simply browsing Peter’s memories (from his POV Peter’s ‘accomplishments’ if you will) means that he was never trying to sleep with MJ to prove his superiority in the first place. He was just a horny creep. Nothing more.
Not to mention, he is aware Peter had slept with Mary Jane and done so on multiple occasions. How would even regularly sleeping with her prove himself superior? It’s just sex. He’d know that. He’s both an adult and an incredible clinical person who clearly knows how to romance a woman. One of his biggest regrets in life was giving up his fiancée.
So Otto would be aware that sex would be no proof of his superiority and it wouldn’t mean much in the grand scheme of things. What would really prove himself superior would be having and maintaining a relationship with MJ that was either longer lasting or over all better than the one she held with Peter.
But he’s not interested in that because he moves on after wanking off. And he is trading off of trickery to even get his foot in the door in the first place. This isn’t a case of him being a younger or more attractive man and using his own charms and traits to court her.
He is only got as far as he did because he looks like someone she knows, because she believes he is that person, because he’s using Peter’s memories to pander to what she likes (like her favourite movie) and circumvent what he knows will turn her off. Hell in ASM #698 he jumps immediately into a relationship with her but it’s obvious to both him and MJ that the emotional groundwork for that had been laid in preceding months.
So even if Otto was enough of a slimeball to not consider this rape, a man that intelligent and egotistical would still recognize that sex wouldn’t be a badge of superiority on his part.
If anything his own romantic life would be something more worthy of pride.
Let’s say we accept for the moment that Otto conforms to stereotypical standards of attractiveness. Well then what would be more impressive from your POV?
a) Wooing a stunning actress/supermodel when she believes you are someone else she knows, someone much in their 20s or early 30s, very in shape and at least fairly handsome
Or
b) Being a rotund, arguably ugly (but at least typically unattractive) middle aged man and wooing a relatively attractive woman your age, a younger more attractive woman who was immediately smitten by you and a younger woman smitten by you that your own genius transformed into a veritable vision of stunning beauty?*
Yeah, obviously the latter right?
Also, the idea that sex with MJ would constitute a form of revenge is highly out of character for Otto.
That is more of a Norman Osborn tactic. Otto actively despises Norman’s ideology, as elaborated upon in Superior Team-Up #11-12. In those issues Otto and Norman endeavour to work together in spite of a philosophical disagreement. Otto feels that Spider-Man should be defeated through science whereas Norman feels they should attack his soul.
To prove the point Norman infects Otto’s old fiancee Mary Alice with a deadly virus (read: AIDs, this was the 1990s) so Otto will understand the torment they could inflict upon Spider-Man.
Initially Otto seeks bloody revenge upon Norman. However, he defies Norman by instead reaffirming his original belief. He sought to defeat Spider-Man through science and thus prove his philosophy superior to Norman’s.
Okay. That wasn’t published at the time of Superior #2 so let’s say we ignore it.
Even doing that, Otto had been defined for decades as someone who wouldn’t go in for such spiteful attacks on his enemies.
In Spec #221 (part of the ‘Web of Death’ storyline) Peter himself states he doesn’t believe Otto will target his loved ones, even though he just learned his secret identity.
Hold them hostage to lure him out? Okay.
Maim or kill them for revenge? He’s just not that sort of guy.
Or at least he wasn’t until this creepy ass scene from ASM #700. Among other things, he specifically refers to the prospect of sex with MJ as ‘another victory for the Master Planner’.
Let’s try coming at this from a different angle then.
If Otto believes himself to be Peter Parker because he inhabits his body, perhaps he doesn’t regard sleeping with MJ as unethical at all. She is giving her consent to Peter Parker and he is Peter Parker now.
That’s a rather huge stretch to make about the character considering he actively tried to hide the fact that he was secretly Otto Octavius from so many people in Superior.
Moreover, during ‘Dying Wish’ it was clear (due to mischaracterization) that Otto was doing what he was doing for revenge, that was even partially why he wanted to sleep with MJ (see above). He wanted to ‘have something Peter hadn’t had in a while’ (...ugh...). Furthermore in ASM #700 he was bombarded with Peter’s morality (or some shit like that, I don’t know...) and this convinced him to be a good guy.
But that was seemingly thrown out the window when Superior started as he seemed to just be a bad guy who battled crime to again be superior to Spider-Man. He wasn’t honouring his fallen comrade and didn’t have his moral compass as seemed to be implied in ASM #700 because if he did why was he still trying to rape Mary Jane?
Shit in fact in Avenging Spider-Man #15.1 he’s LAUGHING at Peter’s demise and the fact that he’s gotten away with this. He refers to Spider-Man in the third person as he does this. This event also happened literally the day after ASM #700, so it was less than 24 hours since he had been blasted with Peter Parker’s memories and resolved to be a ‘hero’.
Not to mention in various issues he clearly refers to himself and Peter as separate entities. In Avenging Spider-Man #15.1 his thoughts drifted to MJ and he called Peter a fool.
He does the same in Superior #2 where he refers to Peter in the third person.
His dialogue utilizes quotation marks when using Peter’s full name; “Peter Parker”. This demarks how he is making a distinction between himself and the real Peter Parker. He is acknowledging himself as a pretender.
In Superior #4 internally reprimanded ‘Parker’ for never finishing Grad School. At the same time he negatively compared Peter’s efforts to when he received his own doctorate, referring to himself as ‘I’.
In Superior #10 he referred to Peter as a separate person, referencing how he expunged him from his mind in the prior issue.
He also chastises Peter as a ‘reactionary fool’ who allowed ‘his’ enemies to make the first move. Where ‘Parker’ dealt with symptoms he plans on dealing with the disease. He even refers to himself by name as Otto Octavius.
When he runs into MJ he wonders what ‘Parker’ would say and gripes that fooling her was easier before he purged ‘his’ (meaning Peter’s) memories.
In Superior #21 he refers to his “…life as ‘Peter Parker’…”. He’s clearly making a distinction between the real Peter Parker and himself as a pretender.
In the same issue, when Stunner blames him as Spidey for murdering Doc Ock, it takes Otto a moment to register what she is talking about. He then attempts to reveal the truth to her. He starts by saying “I’m actually…”
These moments when taken with all his other unethical actions in Superior also undermine another defence of Otto’s raptastic efforts in Superior.
This is the idea that ‘he’s changed’ in the interim leading into Superior. Now his attitude towards women and morality is different so it’s believable for him to act this way.
Let’s ignore how again, Superior Team-Up disproves this. Otto’s actions clearly showcase that he in fact has not changed as a person. He’s not grown or evolved. He just happens to be crime fighting now as a form of ego boosting and to prove himself better than Peter.
More importantly if Otto was going to so noticeably change in his attitudes to women then we should have seen that happen!
You can’t just jump forward and tell readers to just accept a character has had a change of heart and is now open to the idea of fucking rape!
How, when and WHY did he change to be this drastically different predatory creature? This wasn’t like how Aunt May or Norman were different when the former was resurrected and the latter was written by JMS. Those were extrapolations of aspects of those characters that were already there. This was essentially something wholesale new and starkly against how he was previously defined. Its akin to what Slott did to Ben Reilly in ‘Clone Conspiracy’ or to Ashley Kafka when he had her declare someone irredeemable (even though she believed Carnage was redeemable).
Finally, lets pretend to ignore all of the above.
Let’s say Otto being a rapist would be entirely believable.
That doesn’t mean you should actually DO it!
Doc Ock is a classic goofy mad scientist archetypical villain, even if he was (allegedly) on a redemption tour in this story. Adding something so creepy, disturbing and vile from the real world to his character taints his character. It took him to a bad place where he was peers with the likes of Purple Man and Doctor Light. It makes him practically irredeemable. Maybe a skilled writer on a MAX book could pull off a redemption arc for a rapist or attempted rapist. But not only is Slott not that skilled, but he’s played it for comedy!
Frankly, unless you have seriously done your research on this topic you shouldn’t even be touching it.
To touch it so casually for humour is seriously FUCKED UP!
I don’t even want this topic really raised in mainline Spider-Man titles period personally but to do it like this?
*gagging noises*
Not to mention it was entirely unnecessary.
Otto had attempted to mass murder half the planet in an arc just the year before Superior. Surely that is enough fuel for a redemption story, you don’t need to make him a rapist/attempted rapist on top of that.
But no. Gotta milk that crass shock value for all it is worth!
Shit, the topic with MJ was handwaved within one issue!
Fuck Slott.
Fuck Superior.
Fuck everyone who defended this disgusting garbage!
*This also dismantles the myopic idea that an older man who looked like Otto would be jumping at the chance to have sex. That’s another defence I’ve heard. The fact is multiple women found Otto attractive as he was.
There is a new Sinister Syndicate! Beetle, Electro, Lady Octopus, Scorpia and White Rabbit have come together for one reason: TO HUNT BOOMERANG! Spidey knew having Boomerang as a roommate would come back to bite him, but not like this...
Okay a few things to unpack from this.
First of all Lady Ock’s inclusion is probably due to Liv being a hit in ITSV.
But it might just be the fact that the Sinister Six is associated with Doc Ock and this is a female version of it.
Second of all...an all female Sinister Six...I’m down for that but my God...the mind shudders at the fanfiction it shall inevitably inspire...
Third of all I’m happy to see White Rabbit, Scorpia and Lady Ock get more play. I’ve a soft spot for those characters, especially White Rabbit. Spencer’s penchant for humour will serve him well in writing her.
Fourth of all...given how Centi-Demon will apparently be revealed just an issue or 2 before this and this is clearly a lighter more humourous arc I’m concerned the reveal won’t be as momentous as we think.
Of course it could be we’re getting the reveal but not the resolution, and pressing forward with Centi-Demon as an ongoing character or threat but we’ll now just know who he/she/it is.
