I'm sorry that you have to deal with Onethousandroaches and her friends. Hopefully once they get older, they'll get over this mob mentality and superiority complex they have. The whole I'm right you're wrong, shut up and agree with me bullshit. Literally always irritates me. Keep doing you, BB.
Thanks for checking in hun, I certainly appreciate everyone’s feedback. While I disagree with onethousandroaches and hoenursey and the other pals they claim to represent who still have yet to come forward and speak for themselves, I do not think they’re bad people. We certainly have different opinions. But I’m willing to engage them in a conversation so we can discuss why we’re disagreeing and see how to make everyone feel more comfortable and understand one another. I’m not sure if that’s something they want to do yet, based on their replies, but we’ll certainly see! Thanks for the ask, let’s chat again anytime by either message or ask!
This is literally going to be a disorganized mess, I apologize in advanced.
Ok the reason why I’m engaging in this discourse is two fold:
So many times Asian and Asian American people are shunned from spaces of racial discourse, and I think skirting this conversation to the side is denying them a much needed platform.
I (for some reason) have a degree in Media & Cinema Studies with a focus on Minority Media Representation (I literally went out of my way to study every medium possible and every major minority group’s media portrayal). There is an academic approach to this discussion and I want to put it out there. I also want to disclose that I am a POC but I am not Asian or Asian American. These are my thoughts and I’m in NO WAY the final authority on this matter.
This merely my CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.
A Brief Run Down of Stereotypes:
Binary opposition (in minority studies): two contrasting stereotypes that when juxtaposed are “meant” to cancel each other out. In reality, all they do is create a binary of caricatures and toxic representation. Just because there’s more than one stereotype, doesn’t mean that the character selection is diverse.
Hence the phenomena of the Dragon Lady and the Madam Butterfly (also known as the China Doll).
It’s important to note that while these stereotypes (and many other’s for POC and NBPOC) are inextricably tied to sexuality. So although you found a definition of the Dragon Lady based mostly on sex, there’s another subset that’s sometimes referred to as “The Tiger Mom”. In which, the female Asian character is portrayed as cold/ferocious/calculating.
“And if I go too far into making her soft, compliant, passive, then I run the risk of getting told I’m being racist again and portraying a racialized view of Lardo again by making her a submissive Asian woman.” (quoting you for accuracy)
You’re right and you’re wrong. You’re right that you may run into that problem, but your logic heavily leans on binary opposition without making a claim/statement that you’d need sometime to consider how to portray her differently. It implies that there is no in between, which is wrong. But we’ll get to that in a bit.
More below the cut
On Media Coding
Ok, you were given feedback on the nature of your content. You responded by coding your content to provide empirical evidence. That was the right idea.
You didn’t code well enough.
Now, I’m going to point out that people who read this, might not care if you coded well. You wanted to engage in a conversation so I’m going to explain. Everyone else can skip forward if this sounds tedious.
So a lot of my undergraduate research went into media coding. I’m going to tell you: you didn’t define your perimeters enough.
“I count around 80 of these quotes that are cold/unfeeling. That accounts for just over 25% of my Lardo posts.” (quoting you for accuracy)
You did go through your posts. You decided you were researching the number of times the Dragon Lady stereotype comes up in your Lardo posts. You explained that you were counting each instances when Lardo was “cold/unfeeling” but that’s only the half of it. (I say you, but I mean in the hypothetical ‘if you were a professional’ so I hope this isn’t overwhelming you. Bear with me, I’m getting to my point.)
You needed to make a key, basically, of what was considered “cold/unfeeling”. It would say which actions/conditions/words/tones would equate to falling into the Dragon Lady trope.
Does cold mean rude/abrasive? Do instances when an incorrect quote has her yelling at another character count? Does it count as unfeeling if you (hypothetically, not putting words in your mouth) constructed Lardo as a character with ASD? Basically, if you were conducting formal research, you’d have this 20 page key so that you and 15 or so other people could look through all of your posts and have within a 1% discrepancy of when Lardo is cold/unfeeling and what that means for your study.
Here’s an example of where discrepancy can come up without a key:
Ex) Park and Rec Convo with Shitty and Lardo
Without knowing how you counted this post, I’ll tell you what I thought. April Ludgate was/is such an important character for Latin@ representation. She’s never portrayed as overly sexualized, and her character finds an emotional place where she can be relatable, nuanced, and loved without veering into infantile characteristics (although sometimes she is still written that way, but that’s for another post).
I think this scene could be interpreted positively in the same way for Lardo. However, her avoidance of responsibility and growing up can just as easily be interpreted as “unfeeling”. So if we didn’t have the same, very specifically defined perimeters to determine how many posts were stereotypical, lots of people are going to disagree with your numbers. Without that transparency for other people to “check your work”, people are going to make assumptions based on their own personal bias.
I don’t expect you to go back and do this. Tbh, if I didn’t have 200 pages to edit by this Sunday, I would do it for you and publish my findings so other people could corroborate.
On Cultural Collateral
This is my “why this matters” section.
Why are we talking so much, so seriously, about fan works? I’ll agree that the nature of your blog isn’t supposed to lend itself to complete accuracy. And I understand the argument that a relatively insignificant amount of posts shouldn’t be harmful/interpreted as harmful when this is a big fandom. And you offer many other posts.
Because of the nature of the narrative, we get very limited glimpses of every character. Twitter provides a great medium where we delve a bit more into them. But so much of the way this fandom works is filling the holes to create a richer experience for each other. Fan lore is so so so important here. It’s how we get origin stories, side characters, rare ships, and really awesome fics. It’s this communal effort where some trends take over, and the only way to correct/add to them is to take part with our own content.
This isn’t a television, book, or even film fandom where people can wait til the next upcoming release. (I mean, you totally can but it’s almost impossible to be inactive and maintain interest here. It’s meant to be an active and dynamic fandom.) People contribute content freely. But it amounts to the same impact as if we were all working for a major media corporation, exchanging plans for the “next big thing”.
You’re contributing to that. Obviously you know that, but I’m telling you that your blog (as well as mine, or anyone else’s) has the equivalent of a network junior executive when it comes to choosing what gets seen and what doesn’t. You’re making conscious, socioeconomic decisions by giving your time to contributing to the fandom.
This isn’t meant to intimidate you. But I think sometimes we all loose perspective about why people make a big deal when they complain. Because unlike other spaces where people can only grumble about lack of effective content, people have a direct line to their favorite blogs.
That’s not to say that anyone has any right to harass you.
Side note: Lardo in herself is a big fucking deal. In US media alone, there’s an over-saturation of Korean, Chinese, and Japanese characters (quality vs quantity is another long discussion). The fact that she’s a positively portrayed Vietnamese character in a non-traditional major is super progressive on so many levels (the inclusion of Asian American students on college campuses is another big discussion).
Also, something that’d I love to talk about at some point is how (as Ngozi’s said several times) this is Bitty’s story, and how his bias contribute to how we interact with POC characters like Lardo.
On Balanced Portrayals
So what’s the solution? Well you have some options. One is to simply acknowledge that the nature of a blog like yours is to hodge-podge lines with characters and hope for the best. Acknowledge that there are only so many well written Asian American characters, and maybe remind people that it takes a lot of searching to do what you do (and I want to point out that people do appreciate your blog).
But improving representation is possible no matter the circumstance.
I’ll direct you to the Media Action Network for Asian Americans (or MANAA for short). This is a great advocacy group for the positive portrayal of Asian Americans.
This is a great paper on how to circumvent stereotypical Asian American portrayals.
THIS ARTICLE ISN’T JUST FOR YOU. THIS IS SOMETHING EVERYONE SHOULD TAKE THE TIME TO LOOK AT. THEY LITERALLY HAVE THEIR OWN VERSION OF TL;DR IN IT.
I’m attaching it because I think it’s hard to find literature on how to improve media representation. And I think that often times people will want to contribute, but don’t know how to properly go about it. We should all be working towards making the content we want to see in this fandom. And while I’m glad this was a good opportunity to talk about Asian American representation, the weight of representation doesn’t fall squarely on your shoulders.
Okay hello again, sorry for my absence and lack of response to your ask. I have been busy with real life and I have also been considering it for a short amount of time before deciding on the most appropriate course of action and response in order to make everyone feel comfortable and give you the utmost respect in this situation while explaining from both sides. First of all, I certainly appreciate you bringing your concerns to me directly and you have very clearly made your opinion known to me so that I can consider this in the future if nothing else. I’m hoping to engage your criticism and continue to speak with you for your continued commentary in order to be open and so we can both challenge each other’s views through an open discussion if you will.
I would like to frankly and openly address your concerns that my posts about Lardo portray her as unfeeling and cold. I do not believe this to be true. As you explained, you have seen my posts around the fandom but you do not follow my blog. As such, it is perhaps possible you have only seen a fraction of my posts that characterize Lardo. This could be due to a number of things, including my audience and the popularity of certain posts, but in the last few days I have been scrolling through my Lardo tag to find each and every post I have attributed to her as an incorrect quote in the last two months I have been running this blog. At this point in time, I have approximately 230 posts that contain Lardo. Even with an extremely lenient measure of seeing any post where I categorize Lardo as a tough character as being your view of her shown as “cold/unfeeling” I count around 80 of these quotes that are cold/unfeeling. That accounts for just over 25% of my Lardo posts. A fourth of my posts about Lardo may indeed portray her as tough. I do, however, believe that if you look through, the remaining three-fourths of my posts show Lardo to be a character of great depth, showing her as playful, strict, serious, funny, emotional, fearful, and more. I believe my characterization of Lardo is thus two important things: 1) canon compliant and 2) three-dimensional. According to my own interpretation of Lardo through the primary text and all the extra canonical sources by Ngozi Ukazu, Lardo is shown as being tough and capable especially in comparison to the particularly soft hockey boys of the SMH that main Check Please as a comic. She is, however, also seen as a great friend, a lover of ducks, an artist, and she is indeed seen as emotional. If you notice a trend with my posts, I have particularly seen Lardo feel free to express her emotions around Shitty in contrast with other characters in the comics which is one of the greatest reasons I think these characters are depicted as complementary and compatible in the comic, and this is something my posts often reflect. I do believe that Lardo is tough and a very strong, capable woman of color. I also believe some of it is putting on airs to seem tougher than she is, which is definitely something some of my quotes have dealt with. I disagree that I have shown Lardo in an unfair or prejudiced manner. I believe my interpretation of her is lacking any implicit or explicit bias because my quotes depict the character as I see her in the comics, regardless of her ethnicity and racial background. While those traits are ultimately likely important to her characterization and many readers/fans’ interpretations/headcanons of Lardo, none of that has really been shown in canon at this point yet. Besides that, though I completely understand how tropes and stereotypes can be hurtful to marginalized persons, I do not agree that showing a character to express certain facets of a trope despite displaying a great range of three dimensional qualities qualifies her to be labeled as a harmful trope/stereotype, because many real people probably identify closely with the Lardo depicted in the comic - an Eastern Asian woman with a lot of confidence, strength, dynamic character, a range of emotion, a tough outer exterior, a capable and organized leader, etc - and to label their real world experience as trope-like is problematic and creates a shame that the trope is claiming to inflict on others upon the self-identified person. Furthermore, even if that above point were completely incorrect in your opinion, you seem to be confused with what the “dragon lady” trope even is in the first place. The trope of the dragon lady involves more than being cold/unfeeling or putting on airs to seem that way. The dragon lady is described by TV Tropes as such:
“The Baroness meets Yellow Peril. The Dragon Lady is characterized by her overt sexual and physical aggression, untrustworthiness, and mysteriousness. Probably wears a qipao or kimono often with a dragon on it (even if she's not Chinese or Japanese), and knows martial arts. If she carries a weapon, it's usually a concealed stabbing or slashing weapon; folding metal fans are a perennial favorite. Is contractually obligated to have legs that would make Tina Turner jealous, to better pull off the dress.
The Dragon Lady overlaps heavily with The Vamp, the Femme Fatale, and The Baroness, but is set apart by her level of stereotypical Asianness. However, please note that just because a villainess is Asian (especially in non-Asian works) doesn't mean she's automatically a Dragon Lady. Nor is it the same thing for a woman of any background to simply be called ‘Dragon Lady’ just because she's overbearing. This trope has a very specific look and feel.”
I would like to address that while Lardo may in a good fourth of my quotes be depicted as a character that is sometimes standoffish, overtly tough, imposing, overbearing, and maybe particularly determined to not show her emotions, she has neither the overt sexual and physical aggression nor the untrustworthiness nor the mysteriousness nor the foreignness that make up a Dragon Lady trope. Ordinarily, I wouldn’t try to nitpick on the details if a particularly offensive trope perhaps exhibited almost all of the traits of a label but maybe parted from it in a single, one-dimensional way to try and hide behind a fake level of diversity and depth but your accusation of the Dragon Lady trope applying to Lardo simply does not fit, it has one trait that might be seen as a Dragon Lady yet lacks all substance that would actually make her a Dragon Lady and even TV Tropes includes a note in the first two paragraphs of this entry to specify that a character that could be seen as overbearing is not a determinedly sure qualifier to prove a Dragon Lady.
But please don’t let this response end our discussion. I have no interest in trying to be dismissive or unsympathetic. I completely understand you might still have concerns to address. I tried to go point by point to defend, explain, debunk, and engage your criticism and my portrayal so that we can understand where each other are coming from but I completely welcome you to continue to engage me in more conversations about how I can be made aware of my actions and their consequences and work to make it easier for the people of the fandom that you claim to represent who may or may not be uncomfortable with anything I might create to have a more pleasant experience.
Hello friends, I hope y’all are doing okay. In light of some recent events, I have some news. I am going to be taking a leave of absence from this blog very soon and I am not sure how long that leave of absence will last. This blog has always been about bringing happiness to others. It has brought me a great deal of joy and I hope from all my notes, followers, and kind messages especially over the last couple days when I have needed them most, that this blog has brought joy to others as well.
This fandom has always been welcoming to me up until now and due in part to the strain of running this blog and the recent events masquerading themselves as “disk horse” in the words of the incredibly talented and interesting young women who have been frequent advocates of my racism and privilege getting in the way of my health and my real life, I think it best for now that I step away from this blog for the time being.
I will still be around tumblr and I will continue to reblog and share with this fandom, but not from this blog for awhile, and in complete anonymity from anyone but the few who already actually know me in real life. I hope to come back eventually and that we can continue to bring each joy in participating in our wonderful fandom, but for now, this is my parting of ways as the admin of my incorrect quotes blog.
In light of my upcoming absence and the events that have prompted it, I would like to inform everyone of four things:
My askbox will not now nor ever turn away anonymous messages. I have received just as much support from anonymous welldoers as hate and suicide baiting in the last few days and I believe in the right of everyone to express themselves to me, even if I don’t like what they have to say, and I do sincerely believe keeping an anonymous option is for the best, although I do appreciate the concerns some have raised recently.
That being said, my askbox will only continue to be open until 0300 EST at which time it will close until my eventual return and all asks will be immediately published. Say whatever you wish and do not feel the need to hold back as I am going to close the askbox at that time and it may not open up for awhile. The only thing I request is that if you have a submission for a future incorrect quote you would like me to post, either wait to send until my return, send it to another of the great blogs dedicated to incorrect quotes (and there is apparently another still active in our fandom though I did not realize this until yesterday when I was accused of plagiarizing their quotes), send it through my messenger, or send it through my ask but do not expect it to be published for sometime.
Upon the publishing of every ask at 0300 EST, I will end my time for now on this blog by reminding everyone that my experience here will always be remembered as one ultimately that brought so much joy into my life. As such, I will be reblogging all of my favorite posts all together directly after closing my ask. If you have a favorite that has made you smile, send suggestions my way through messenger or asks. I have never reblogged my own content on this blog before because I don’t feel the need to keep self-promoting but this is less about self-promotion to me and more about celebrating the good times that I did have on here. I hope it will make you all happy too.
I want to thank you all for the experiences on this blog that have made me so happy since its creation. This blog has not been around long but it has generated a lot buzz in what little time it has existed and it has certainly taken a lot of my time and energy and devotion to create, and although I am sad to step back from my labor of love for now, I think it is ultimately for the best but I appreciate all that you all have done for me.
Thank you everyone. Be kind as you go forth and love one another, practice tikkun olam, support each other, and strive for greatness.
Lardo is a badass character. This is an incorrect quote blog. At some point some of the quotes for her will be a little cold and snarky. And although I don't know the source material for the 'problematic quotes' I doubt they are all coming from sources that are perpetuating the dragon lady stereotype. Like calm down, this blog is supposed to be fun.
Thank you for enjoying this blog, nonnie! And thanks for the support, love!
I just want to put in my two cents briefly - Lardo isn't characterized as tough because she's Asian, she manages a hockey team. One needs to be some degree of toughness to be able to spend large amounts of time with a group of frat boys, and I would call her chill instead of cold.
Thanks for the feedback pal! I would agree! It was never my intention to show her as stereotypically Asian. I believe that’s just her character that is chill or tough or cold or whatever you need to call it. But if I’m doing that wrong, tell me and tell me how, but not doing so and sending hate mail and snide anons isn’t really helping the situation.
Anon because I don't want to get in the middle of this drama, but as a POC and having analyzed several of your posts, I'm not entirely sure why this Dragon Lady and "unfeeling" Lardo is really coming from. I feel like they chose to nitpick at something that's not there. Lardo, I feel, has been canon compliant and in line with her personality as a character. I don't believe there is a racist portrayal here. So, here's a little love to try and balance out the hate. <3
I still have asks to respond to guys but I need a break, I can’t look at them anymore. I will return later to publish more asks, but I don’t even know if I’m going to continue to respond to most of them at this point.
