Had someone in the homestuck discord say latula was "overplaying her disability card" and that made her a bad person what do you think of this
Personally I think it's fucking stupid but I want to hear from The Alpha Trolls Person(tm)
Latula goes out of her way to UNDERPLAY her disability, it’s kind of one of her whole things. She specifically doesn’t like calling attention to her disability. This is because she’s Beforan and a Knight of Mind. The only person “overplaying her disability” is Kankri, who is her stalker and was blatantly fetishizing her for it. She was not comfortable about it. Her interaction with Kankri is the one time she’s physically incapable of masking her true emotions because she was so uncomfortable. There’s literally zero point in Latula’s dialogue where she ever even breathes in the direction of “playing the disability card” so she cannot “overplay” it.
Me when I blatantly lie to be a Misogynistic Ableist. Common Homestuck fan moment.
Also unironically going “play the [marginalizing trait] card” is just a bigotry airhorn. Not even a dogwhistle, it’s just outright saying “I believe minorities can leverage their social power as minorities (LOL) to get away with things Normal People Like Me wouldn’t”.
Latula was not born anosmic. That was something she gained through an accident, spoken of only in hushed whispers. She lost her sense of smell through physical trauma. She’s very intent on keeping this somewhat of a secret, and constantly downplays her anosmia being a disability. No one really knows what happened, not even Aranea. They just know that something happened, and Latula lost her ability to smell out of it. Latula is the only person that really seems to know what happened, and she’s not opening her mouth about it.
She’s a Knight of Mind, with Knights being notorious for overcompensating for their sense of having a fundamental flaw in or lack of their own Aspect.
Fundamental flaw in Mind, huh? One they keep tightly under wraps. That technically rules out Latula’s OCD- not only do we know that she’s medicated to help manage it, but she talks about it freely. Though she is, by Porrim’s words, “overcompensating for her gender”, that’s not really a Mind thing.
Do you remember her conversation with Kankri? Where it’s revealed that what Aranea meant by them having “complicated unrequited feelings for each other”, was that Kankri was creepily obsessed with her- to a literal stalkerish extent- and Latula was deeply not into it? There was a point in his ramblings where he starts talking about her Anosmia. He frames it as inspiration porn, and she’s quick to downplay.
The main bit here is calling Latula “brave” for “suffering” through a disability, when she barely counts it as one. She insists specifically on not making it into a big deal. Part of this is understandable- having your disability turned into inspiration porn right in front of your face is deeply unpleasant. But anosmia is a disability… But it doesn’t have much to do with Mind, does it?
Reveal Time: It is physically impossible to have an accident where you slam your head into something so hard that you lose your sense of smell… And not get brain damage in the process.
Her unique, extremely long-standing relationship with Mituna- you know, the one that she acts cagey about when the topic of his disability comes up- may actually be in part strengthened by a sense of kinship. It’s genuinely extremely likely her accident left her with far more than anosmia, and she’s just downplaying it out of a neurotic sense of self preservation. She is terrified of Culling.
Mituna had an incident of violent physical trauma that left him brain damaged, and now he takes a kind of medication to help mitigate problems that arise from it. No one really knows what happened except for Mituna, and Aranea can’t really get any details out of him, so she leaves it marked as an incident that made him lose his mind. Latula had an incident of violent physical trauma that left her without a sense of smell, and she takes a kind of medication to help mitigate problems caused by her mind. No one really knows what happened except for Latula, and Aranea can’t really get any details out of her, so she leaves it marked as an incident that made her lose her sense of smell.
Latula’s deeply protective of Mituna. We know that. He’s constantly stated to have “lost his mind” in the Great Act of Heroism.
Is it unlikely to assume, considering… Everything that’s going on here, that maybe they both have the same fundamental flaw in their sense of Mind?
Literally the most gravely underrated thing ever. I view them as moirails, personally. They feel very... Very deeply PaleRom. Very healthily PaleRom, at that.
People really look at the fact that Porrim is the only person who we see not only recognize Latula's cool girl persona, but realize it's born out of genuine mental illness... And Latula feels comfortable enough around her to mostly drop it and be vulnerable around her. And they don't go insane about that on impact? They don't go prompt critical? What the fuck. There's so much depth happening there. There's so much implication. I need 500 more hours of whatever they fuck they have going on.
And the fact that this is such an uncommon pairing despite being right fucking there is so, so deeply frustrating, because, like... You're telling me with a straight face that Kankri/Cronus is more popular than this? There's literally nothing there. There's fucking nothing. They're literally just two completely insufferable misogynistic ableist guys who looked at each other for 5 seconds. All Kankri did was enable Cronus being shitty and a liar because Kankri is a bootlicker. Literally all that scene was doing is showing why he got so uppity about the term "Wader"- by definition, he literally is one. That scene didn't mean anything other than "these two suck- here's why!" and people took it as ship material. Latula and Porrim are right there. Aranea and Meenah are right there. Aranea and Porrim are right there. And this isn't a ship, but no one talks about the dynamic that Meenah and Damara had during their game, either. That was so interesting!! These relationships are all so interesting!!
The well of the relationships between the women in the Alpha Troll cast is rich and deep, and yet. And yet. I may have to kill people, Anon.
We all love Vrisrezi, but do you think Aranea and Latula have chemestry in some quadrant?
Unfortunately, no. Absolutely not. They represent a break in a cycle, and have a completely neutral relationship where both parties are uninterested in any romance or even friendship developing. Latula finds Aranea boring, and Aranea… Sees her as Inspiration Porn, so… Yeah, probably better nothing’s pursued. The chemistry is next to none, even if they had interest in each other. I can’t think of anything particularly interesting to read coming of that, I can’t imagine any character development, nothing. It’d just feel empty, and like a Pyrope/Serket relationship for the sake of a Pyrope/Serket relationship.
There’s a whole conversation between Porrim and Latula about the fact that the Pyropes and Serkets tend to have storied relationships, actually, and the fact that Latula and Aranea are the exception.
This is leagues more interesting than Obligatory Pyrope/Serket Relationship to me. That’s just my personal take, though.
i think latula is very underappreciated in the fandom and most people tend to take her shield of being a Gamer Girl at face value. either that, or she's written by a kanrki apologist, and i dont like that either.
Yeah! Latula’s great, I genuinely love her. She’s one of the objectively better characters in the Alpha Trolls’s OpenBounds. Very normal, very neurotic. People who take her “Gamer Girl” façade at face value need to realize that’s the same exact thing as taking Dave’s “Cool Guy” façade at face value.
Semi-related… One thing that frustrates me when it comes to people analyzing her and/or Beforan society as a whole is how she’s, for some reason, literally never brought up as an example of how Misogyny actually is a thing on Beforus? This honestly absolutely baffles me.
Latula is living proof that it is real- just because Kankri denounced the concept of something as simple as Systemic Misogyny existing doesn’t mean he’s right. Latula’s “Gamer Girl” façade is inherently a response to not only Misogyny within gaming circles, but also her own Internalized Misogyny. You physically cannot separate Latula’s mask from the idea of Misogyny as a genuine, existent concept- that would be a deep fundamental misunderstanding of her character.
What's your take on Aranea? Because I noticed a lil trend with the alpha trolls being a stereotype of?? Internet, or simply a stereotype.
Like with Kankri being an sjw stereotype, Latula with her rad girl thing, though that's probably because she's a Knight class
Okay, this ask is unintentionally a bit of a doozy, full of a lot of things I feel I need to address and talk about in order for this to be a complete conversation. You came to the Wordy Bullshit + Analyses blog, and now you’re getting Wordy Bullshit + Analyses.
Let’s talk about the Alpha Trolls and Beta Trolls, and how they play into the theme of Internet Archetypes. I swear I get to the crux of your ask- being Aranea- in this. Just sit tight for a bit while I ramble my head off!
Content Warning: Long.
Firstly, I have to clarify that while yes, the recurring theme of Alpha Trolls being largely Internet Archetypes is very much so intentional, and you’re correct to notice it, I must also point out that that’s not at all just an Alpha Trolls thing. That’s a “Trolls in general” thing. The Beta Trolls are also like that. They’ve always been like that. That’s actually where the species name of “Troll” came from- they’re Internet Trolls.
Trolls in general are a little more complicated than just being Stereotypes or Parodies through and through. All of them, and I mean all of them- yes, including your fave- started as joke characters. Sometimes either of these traits manifest in good ways, sometimes they manifest in bad ways.
Since you brought up Kankri, I’ll use him as an example: On a surface level, Kankri is a parody of, quite specifically, early 2010’s Tumblr SJW Culture. Everyone is aware of this. What a lot of people don’t realize is that there’s a lot of overtones of how Internet-based SJW Politics/Identity Politics had most of their conversations and spaces absolutely dominated by white, clueless, hyper-online teens who didn’t have any tangible life experience or any real comprehension of real world social issues.
A lot of people who regularly engaged in that particular flavor of online politics at the time- especially to the point of dedicating a majority of their persona to it- were mostly just making the acceptance and celebration of diversity a significantly harder feat than their flavor of Discourse for Discourse’s Sake would initially leave you to believe. He actively shuts down anyone discussing their own experiences as a minority by policing their language, and even at times claiming their experiences aren’t real, he only ever gives himself space to truly talk, he’s actually very interestingly anti-recovery, and he’s willingly aiding in the oppression of what is, to him, real world minorities. He sucks up to those higher on the Hemospectrum than him, and regularly partakes in Punching Down- often making Disabled Lowbloods and Women his main targets for unapologetic expressions of his own deep-seated bigotry.
He is, at his heart, not just a parody of “Tumblr SJW Culture,” but specifically of how that era’s brand of Online Political Discourse was often being infected with the type of person who claims to be significantly more progressive than they actually are. He’s hiding his own bigotry, internalized or not, behind pseudo-progressive buzzwords that he, more often than not, will admit to have made up, and/or have fabricated the alleged grave importance of it. He’s significantly more conservative than a lot of people give him credit for, and that’s a damn shame, because it genuinely gives more intrigue to his character, even if it’s in kind of a fucked up way.
As for Latula: Her archetype is less the idea of a “Rad Girl,” and more the idea of a “Gamer Girl.” Weird distinction to make at first, until you consider the crux of her character is how in order to survive in most Gamer Circles online as a woman, you had to both embrace and/or adopt some level of Misogyny. Latula’s whole persona is very much so steeped in a kind of Internalized Misogyny that I don’t see people talk about, like… Ever. The crux of her persona is very much so based in overemphasizing how girls can be just as good as guys at gaming. She’s very deeply struggling with the coexistence of her hobbies and her gender, and just how hostile people who share her interests can be to her just because she’s a woman.
@scalematez can do a much better, more in-depth analysis of Latula than I can, but that’s essentially the core of what her deal is.
As for Aranea? If I had to wager any guesses about her, she’s very much so a “Fandom Blogger,” just like Meulin, though instead of a focus on Shipping and Fanfiction- the more traditionally “Fandom” aspects of Fandom- Aranea is a Media Analysis blog with way too much knowledge about very niche trivia. I’d also say she’s a WordPress native, rather than a Tumblr native like Meulin is. She’s the Quiet Nerdy Bookworm Girl archetype who spends a lot of time in libraries. She’s the absolute antithesis to Vriska’s character. Give her a while, and she’ll discover that she can make Video Essays on whatever she wants, and everything that was ever wrong with her will suddenly be cured.
Do you think justice and karma are inherently tied to the Mind aspect and its network of associations, or is it more that the Pyropes are the only Mind players we see and that’s the specific character trait that they bring into it?
I absolutely think those are tied into Mind. It makes total sense considering what Mind represents- Justice and Karma are often tied to some kind of Cold, Unfeeling Logic. Eye for an Eye. It just makes sense. No reason why that shouldn't be a Mind thing.
A lot of people tend to call the Karma thing into question, due to the fact that Latula is the one who says it ... But if Latula is saying something outright, then you should pay attention to it. I'm very much so inclined to believe what Latula says, without question. Her method of fucking with people is specifically about Playing Dumb. She isn't a Liar by any means, it's just not something she's known to do... But she does tend to pretend as if she doesn't know what's going on, as well as avoid saying things directly. So, if she's deemed something important enough to say directly, she means it, and is most likely right about it.
i read your analysis about mituna and how he parallels cassandra, and i found it really neat!
my question to you is, does latula play any part in that? what part does latula play?
I’m always accepting asks! I love asks!! Feel free to send them in at any time!!! I just get bored sometimes and will prod people to them, lol. Enrichment in the enclosure!!
(Firstly, I’d like to thank you for sending his particular ask in. It gave us some fascinating ideas/revelations regarding Knights and their relationship with Pages. Not going to expand on that here, but just know that those are revelations we had.)
I had to think about this for a second- this is a really interesting question, and ultimately my response to it is… Yes, and no. See, the best way to lovingly parallel the myth of Cassandra is to not parallel it at all. Her part in paralleling the myth would be one that is abstract and conceptual, rather than direct. Her role in this is one built on an attempt to counteract this mythology, but ultimately failing- thus, at the end of the day, falling victim to the tragedy herself.
Latula’s role is that of Truth.
The Alpha Troll session is complicated, much more so than a lot of people would like to think- and it’s made significantly more complicated through even light speculation given the information we already have.
A core concept to keep in mind here, is how both Hope and Rage are being destroyed in the session, and how that relates to the mythological parallels taking place. The destruction of Hope, in particular, is a very important thing to consider when thinking of Mituna as a Cassandra parallel.
After all, the Bard of Hope is the main reason Mituna is a Cassandra parallel to begin with.
Cronus Ampora, Bard of Hope, destroys belief. His role in paralleling the story of Cassandra is that of Apollo, and, later on, that of Ajax the Lesser. Neither of these are good things. It’s hard to pick which one is worse.
Through any level of objective speculation on the Alpha Troll session, combining how a Bard of Hope would, obviously, function, alongside the narrative themes of Mituna’s story given by the quick summary from Aranea, you can very easily come to the conclusion that the main reason Mituna was disbelieved was because Cronus made people not believe him.
Latula Pyrope is a Knight of Mind. She wields Mind as a weapon while also protecting it, making up for the sessions deficiency in Mind. She strives to function as an arbiter of sorts- disconnecting her true self from what she presents to the world entirely as a means of attempting objectivity.
She’s Knighting for Mituna; wielding Mind as a weapon as a means to defend him. The one person who sees the Truth.
But Latula is not a Hope player; she can’t make people believe or disbelieve her by sheer virtue of existing, she can only try to logic her and Mituna’s way out of the current viewpoints as best as she can… But the others do not want to listen to that. They take her defenses as contrarianism, and as consequence she is taken less seriously by her peers, thus falling into Cassandra’s curse.
Again… Her role in paralleling his Cassandra is the role of Truth, she’s the one person who would truly believe him, and as a consequence, Truth is becoming disbelieved for the sake of mental comfort.
And thus the snake eats its tail, and the session is more devoid of Mind than before.
