#lestat critical

[hikarielizabethbloom]

Looking at the third season as the result of Lestat's narration, and something really interesting struck me.

What does it tell us about Lestat's perception of Louis and their relationship?

Because yes, Lestat's Louis is more self-assured and nicer to himself. But he is also emotionally distant and utterly alone.

He is completely isolated. He and Daniel are not friends anymore. And the only two people he has ever loved (apart from Lestat) hate his guts.

He doesn't have anyone left other than Lestat. And it is extremely in character for Lestat to think he is the only one who loves Louis. And that said love should be enough for him.

This is exactly what happens in s01. Lestat is so focused on himself that he fails to realise that his love is not enough for Louis. And his reaction? Isolation, cheating, and emotional and physical abuse.

And it's the same in s3; just in his narrative, he is not the abuser. No, that's Armand, Claudia and Daniel's roles. He is the hero. The only one who truly loves Louis, who knows how to love him and has forgiven him for his mistakes.

Armand and Claudia are the vessels of Lestat's own resentment towards Louis. Claudia's vitriolic words are Lestat's. Armand's irrationally violent behaviour is Lestat's. They are his mirrors. They are telling Louis and the audience what Lestat wanted to say but couldn't because he is a coward. He was a coward during their relationship, during the trial, and after. And he is also cruel.

Manipulation and punishment. This is how his mother taught him to love. And he is enacting it over and over with Louis. Lestat cannot yet perceive his mother as a monster because that would mean facing his own monstrosity. He won't do that.

Could be nice? It could be. It probably won't.

[i-will-free-us-both]

Louis needing to be humbled doesn't make sense to me. I won't watch TVL but what has Louis done that he needs to be humbled for? Are all the other vampires allowed to be arrogant or prideful but not Louis? The only thing I can see some people thinking Louis might need to be humbled for is the fact that he fought back against Lestat and Armand. Plus, he killed the Coven and Bruce. I guess some people think Louis should just take whatever is thrown at him and be grateful for it. He doesn't get to lash out or seek revenge. He doesn't get to be selfish. That's reserved for other vampires. He has to be humble while other vampires can call themselves a God.

He also has to take full responsibility for failed relationships, I guess. Shame on him for not being able to look at Armand the same and treat Armand the same after the death of Claudia. Shame on him for not wanting to tell Lestat how much he loved him after Lestat treated him and Claudia poorly. Shame on him for being cold and closed off at times. Louis being dropped from the sky and decapitated is his fault because he should've been a better partner to men that weren't great partners. If Louis didn't make them so angry and loved them the way they deserved, they wouldn't have to hurt him.

What a horrible message.

[caffeinefree]

Lestat: "You have no idea of Claudia's strength!"

Armand: Brother you're the one who showed up to gank her, fym.

[allthethingsisaid]

I have never liked Lestat but I was still going to try to watch TVL to see if my opinion of him would change. I was going to try to watch TVL to see more of the characters that I actually cared about.

After what I'm seeing fans say about the season I'm so glad I didn't watch it. Apparently, all my favorite characters and relationships were fucked over. I remember the rage I felt for Claudia at the end of IWTV season 2. I can't imagine how angry I would feel if I watched TVL week by week and had to witness the racism, misogyny, orientalism, transphobia, etc. firsthand. If I had to watch them slowly ruin all the characters I cared about and all the relationships I cared about, I would probably shed actual angry tears.

I am so sorry for the fans that have been hurt by the way TVL was adapted (or wasn't adapted). You deserved better than that.

[elderly-worm]

You know, it's wild that even at their most 'romantic', during the honeymoon phase of Louis's vampirehood, he and Lestat have interactions like so--

Louis: rightfully pissed off because Jim Crow racism means he has to pretend to be Lestat's servant when they go on a date to the opera Lestat: ah my husband is experiencing horrific racism. time to tell him how helpful he is to me personally dealing with my Vampire Loneliness Ennui™️

Like… wow, Lestat. Wow. Not gonna offer for him to go hunt racist white folks after as compensation. Not gonna even acknowledge what's going on. Just telling him how important he is to you. Buddy.

[aranostra]

I get very frustrated about the way fandom and also some people involved with the show talk about Louis being "withholding" toward Lestat.

Louis has some withholding behaviors, but there is a huge difference between the type of intentional withholding that an emotional abuser does and what's going on with Louis.

Louis has never been able to express his emotions safely. We don't know about his father, but his mother is homophobic and emotionally abusive toward him. He's experiencing anti-Black racism daily, which forces him to constantly keep his real feelings in check. He's experiencing homophobia, made worse by being a Black man with a white partner (who goes on to openly cheat on him with a white woman).

Louis also struggles with his libido at times due to not wanting to drink human blood and dealing with major depressive disorder. You could argue it's his "fault" that he doesn't want to drink human blood, but his depression is absolutely not a choice.

All of this put together makes showing affection very difficult for Louis all the time, and when he's feeling threatened, he will defensively pull back. If he doesn't react, maybe the threat will stop. If he doesn't reach out, he won't be shoved away. He also just isn't always interested in sex, and can go through stretches of not wanting it at all. Not being interested in sex is not withholding, but Lestat sees it that way.

To me, the actual cycle between Louis and Lestat is:

Lestat perceives something Louis does as a rejection. This can be Louis having an interest in something outside of him (like the Azalea or Claudia). This can be Louis having a low libido or being generally depressed. This can be Louis doing something Lestat thinks is not good (like not drinking human blood).

Lestat reacts to the perceived rejection by doing something to get his attention (this can be positive or negative) and/or seeking the affection he's missing elsewhere.

Louis either gives him the attention, putting off the cycle for a while. OR Louis becomes upset by whatever Lestat is doing, escalating into an argument. Once they're arguing, it might become passionate for a while (which can also put off the cycle), but Louis will typically end up shutting down and being emotionally distant.

Which Lestat perceives as a rejection. Rinse repeat.

The idea to me that Louis is using this "withholding" as a weapon in s1 is wild, to the point of victim blaming. He and Lestat get into toxic cycles, but to say Louis is using his difficulty showing his emotions to emotionally abuse Lestat is shitty. Like, honestly makes me so fucking angry. He is protecting himself reflexively, and the fact is, Lestat proves that he did need to protect himself as their relationship progresses, so what is going on here?

[claudias-menstrual-period]

iwtv fandom drives me insane sometimes. just enjoying some of the show’s few female characters is always a hate-worthy offense but if you call lestat a wifebeater, something he canonically is, everyone loses their shit

[caffeinefree]

Genuinely am I supposed to give an actual shit Lestat chose to "save" Louis from the situation he helped put him in?

Like sorry I pushed you off a bridge, I saved you though aren't you thankful? Wtf are we doing.

I think the writers just like abusive dynamics. And not the intriguing gothic kind, just the shitty real life kind.