Lovers Lake changing location on the map behind the Wall - a theory
I've been thinking about this post for a long time, and all the connections which I'm going to try to point out, because the maps are so frustrating, but so interesting.
(thank you also to Naomi, Goat, Ace and others in the discord for letting me yap about if any of this might actually make sense!)
Firstly, let's start with the wormhole that might not be actually a wormhole, but still "only" a Wall, circle (a wheel) in the Upside Down
“While the existence of wormholes is entirely theoretical, they have captured the fascination of scientists and science fiction writers alike. (...) If wormholes did exist, they would be extraordinarily unstable. Their enormous gravitational force would rip them apart at the very moment they formed.” - Mr. Clarke, 5x3
let's go with Dustin's first idea what the wall around UD is a circle, a wall all around:
(remember the algebra, it will be another point later on.)
"So the lab created the wall?" - "No idea. But i think we should find out."
map no. 1: Dustin figured out with 3 points what proportion the circle around Hawkins would be. What's interesting is (and this I've seen in this amazing post by @zephyrcryptid) that the Lovers Lake is within the circle on this particular map! (Either it's a incorrectly printed version with the Lake pasted onto the wrong square, or... and this is the part I want to maybe focus more in this post - the lake is moving locations.
(I know, I know, that's "impossible", "that's just prop error", "it doesn't mean anything". Well, humor me. Why not. It's impossible? Maybe, maybe more improbable, but nothing is impossible, especially in a scifi tv show where they talk about wormholes existing, right?)
It's only later when Dustin finds Brenner's notes on what the Wall could actually be, he thinks it's a wormhole, (same as in 5x3 we as audience think to connect Mr. Clarke's class and Erica saying what wormhole is, it lead us to think it's the case of the actual wormhole, because we see it on the board).
then it's even more enforced with what the characters later discuss in 5x7, and what the Duffers showed us in the 'documentary' - but none of that necessary have to be the truth - as this show likes to play with the perception of what is or isn't reality, also because of the reasoning that a wormhole would instantly collapsed after forming, and because of the exotic matter - which still remains a big unknown in how it relates to the UD.
but what's more important and what I want to focus on here - is how this scene above with Dustin, is followed by Max searching Henry's memories and throught those she hoped to find the exit:
She found the memory of Vecna first targetting her, beyond the Rainbow room - which is in the Lab, and, as we know, the Lab is the center of the Wall). so the memory is literally hidden behind a wall, a wall Max even had to tear through to get to it.
and what's more - it showed us Mike first, sitting beside Max during a math class,
(here's the mention of the algebra again - with how the scenes follow one another, there's something to be said about them connecting together - Dustin figuring out there's a wall / Max tearing through a wall. // Dustin's "I didn't sleep through algebra" and triangulating the circle / Max within a memory of math/geometry class),
Just to mention in again, but more from Henry's pov - the memory, Henry's memory of Max, was hidden behind a wall, leading her there from the Rainbow room (which could also be said is Henry's own traumatic memory, as shown in the VR game).
Now to connect this to the Lovers Lake location on the maps:
In s1 & s2 the map had the Lake very close to the Lab!
But after s4 it changed. Eddie was by hiding by that Lake, Patrick died in it - opening one of the gates, and the teens went through there to the UD, but we never saw it on the map.
Now in s5 we have multiple maps! and the Lake is on the opposite side of the town than it was in s1 - so it could have been almost flipped, or mirrored (with the centre point of the Flip being the library) onto the other side of the town, and even more important - it's behind the Wall.
In 5x6 Dustin has the same but different map with the circle he made in 5x4, but the Lovers Lake shifted to a different place than in his previous map - now it's outside of the circle.
and Brenner has the map with the same circle, with the same location of the lake.
This could all be almost something to discard, because we haven't seen the lake in s5, the characters haven't talked about it, and it wasn't important to the story unlike in s4.
Except: 1.- S4 ended with the rift opening within the lake, possible breaking it in half. (another theme of a heart being broken).
and 2. the Duffers posted about the map location specifically for this lake, during like a second month of shooting s5 on Feb. 2024.. So why bring attention to it through a post like that, which was meant to say it might be important in s5?
(and why was it something that Finn liked?)
The Lovers Lake has the heart shape. Heart is associated a lot with Mike - especially through Will, but also because Mike is the heart of the story itself, the storyteller, the writer. And s5 showed told us more than not that Mike wasn't really... there. Or, he wasn't in the right place.
"because without the heart, we'd all fall apart."
and I think that's what happened - what was Vecna's plan.
S5 was lacking the heart, because the Heart was behind a Wall, protected but isolated (either from the beginning of s5, or post 5x5, or even already from season 3),
In 5x5, Will made the connection with the hivemind again, and Vecna used him as his spy again, his eyes were moving behind his eyelids, just as if he was building something again.
When Vecna took Will in s1 - and we saw it as a flashback in 5x1 - the library had something inside that looked a lot like what the Wall was made out of in s5, these fleshy blobs, in which seemed to be the Mind Flayer particles,
in s2 Will was building the tunnels underneath real Hawkins when he slept, it's possible they weren't just tunnels, but maybe foundations for this wall in UD? I'm not sure how to trust the 5x7 scene with the gang coming up with the whole plan, but if we take what Will said about Vecna wanting to merge the Upside Down/Abyss with Hawkins, this could have been some sort of preparation for it, already from previous years, just like Vecna said to him- Will's powers were strong and Vecna used him as his "builder" - maybe not just for the tunnels.
And if it's to be believed that Will built the Wall in the UD, I think the distance between Mike and Will (already after s2!) could be explained by Will "moving" the Lovers Lake literally behind the Wall (subconsciously, again), to protect it, to protect Mike. Thus, creating a wall between Mike and the rest of them.
Which brings me to the point that he wormhole rlly isn't a wormhole at all, but a hoax (there were already a few people pointing this out, but I can't find the post I've seen about it).
It seems now more like an idea of a wormhole that doesn't actually exist, and everything about the Abyss was an illusion once the Party moved to the UD after 5x7 and Vecna began his ritual.
Upside Down being still a shadow reflection of the normal Hawkins, trapped on the date Will went missing (that's both the space & time question!),
but with a Wall encircling the town - with a centre point X (M marks the spot) at the Lab (again - where the Rainbow room is, where Max's first memory of Vecna was, where Mike or Mike's memories might possible be stored. And on top of the Lab being the Exotic matter, which could possibly be connected to Will and his powers and to the UD being frozen in time on the day Will went missing)
What if the exit from UD doesn't mean Hawkins, but H as in location of the Lovers Lake on the map.
They still need to break that circle - the vicious cycle - a possible timeloop/illusion/the wall.
And a part of the puzzle is still missing - it's inside Vecna's mind.
Mike is the key and the heart.
In many other scenes characters have the Exit sign above their heads,
so the position of the Lovers Lake in this 5x1 scene above Will's (and in another frame above Mike's) head made me think that they're both the key to that particular exit -
Will could be the one to find the way to escape Vecna's illusion/vision through the lake - through water (which doesn't exist in Upside Down), but if the Hawkins and UD are merging, there's a possibility of the water flooding to the Lovers Lake, with it it could possibly flood the tunnels under the Hawkins as well.
The Upside Down works as a metaphor for many things, especially the closet/repression, lies and secrets, while water is very symbolic with starting over/ free emotions, and being truthful.
The truth that Mike keeps hiding from himself, repressing; and the truth that's still hidden from Mike - that Will loves him (the Duffers never answered the question if Mike realized that Will was talking about him in the coming out scene - the written articles weren't exact with their words from the video interview. Just like the "noise" comments weren't about byler specifically, but the Duffers focusing on their own story and not outside inputs. please once again, keep checking the sources of things you repeat over and over again, especially in the byler tag)
With the truth being brought up to the surface, the way to the exit should be clear. And maybe, if they escape Vecna's vision, it'd be cool to see another map after this is all over, and check if the Lovers Lake found its way back the original location from s1.
with the announcement about the blu-ray stranger things collection, when i was rewatching this vid (post s4 interview from 2022 ) a few weeks ago, it reminded me that they wanted the 'opposite' - to have at least s1 released on netflix that'd visually look like from VHS tape, (and they also mentioned it'd be like a separate title just a little bit farther into the video 🤔 something that netflix agreed on? which could mean nothing)
and for the deleted scenes, if they shot what they wanted to use in the seasons that means there's no deleted ones, but that could mean they counted on using them elsewhere - with this we know there's a deleted scene from s4, and also one that Finn talked about years ago from s1, but there's a few bts pics and mentions from crew (and cast inconsistencies) from s4 and s5 about more things that seemed to have been filmed but aren't (yet?) in any of the episodes.
the blu-ray collection is also supposed to include this map of the tunnels from s2 (just the one on the left, the right one is here for comparison)
which is the s1/s2 map, but with the highlighted tunnels - which by itself is so weird when there was so much focus on the maps in s5 and the maps looks different (especially Lovers Lake location!, which - again - they even pointed out in an instagram post in 2024.
including the tunnels the characters are using for traveling underground..
so i'm once more asking - why bring focus to it, if the lake is either A: in the wrong place, or B: the merch/maps props are wrong... (C: timelines are wonky?)
Fox News freaked all the way out over the stupidest things with Obama. Now when their guy does legitimately stupid and insane things, the right tries to gaslight people for caring about it.
"What are you so triggered about? The president just did something incredibly childlike and technically illegal. What's the big deal, snowflake?"
Nevermind the previous 8 years of:
“ZOMG THE PREZ WORE A TAN SUIT! OMG BARAK HUSEIN OBAMA FIST BUMPT HIS WYF! OMG BARAK USED A BINDER CLIP!"
Looks like the current Maps app could get you killed in Australia. ** ** Inaccuracies in Apple Maps could be "life-threatening" to motorists in Australia's searing heat, police warn. The bad news? Police believe that you can actually die by using this app. The good news? This tech is so pervasive that this announcement could only happen if smart phones were not the default.
Apple has a reputation for obsessive attention to detail in its hardware and software products, down to the beveled edges of the iPhone 5 and the shade of the icons on its screen. But it has stubbed its toe again and again when it comes to releasing reliable, well-designed Internet services. Its less proud moments include Ping, a social network for music that never took off; MobileMe, an error-plagued service for synchronizing data between devices; and, more recently, Siri, the voice-activated virtual assistant that is often hard of hearing. The company’s weakness in this area could become a bigger problem over time as smartphones become more intimately tied to information and software on the Internet — a field where Google, which makes the competing Android phone software, has the home-turf advantage.
