#membranous wings

[magentagorilla]

Dragaux

Has Ring Fit actually helped anyone to stay in shape during the pandemic? Well at least this  questionable fitness app had a hyper elastane-wearing dragon as a final boss. 

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[fantasy-anatomy-analyst]

Would it be possible to make a semi-realistic set of wings with mobile hands on a bird-like or bat-like person with either webbed pterosaur-like wings or feathered ones without making the fingers extended as part of the wings? I know that the dinosaur Yi Qi has an extended wrist bone compared to other dinosaurs/animals that just have their fingers modified into wings.

technically, yes, I think it could work. But if the only thing holding up the wing membrane is a mostly-immobile bone strut with no other joints aside from the one by the wrist, I don't think it really has any advantages over the pterosaur method of having one very very long finger that can bend and give the wing more flexibility while the other fingers remain free.

(image description: sketches of a yi-qi style wing. the first sketch is a normal one, with three long fingers and a solid bone strut extending from the wrist, all connected to a wing membrane. the second sketch modifies it so the three fingers are shorter and no longer attached to the membrane. the final sketch shows a humanoid figure with these modified wings in place of arms. end description.)

compare this to the structure of a pterosaur wing: (source)

(image description: pterosaur wing bones, showing the three free fingers and the one incredibly long four-jointed finger that holds up the wing membrane. end description.)

it's pretty much the exact same structural shape as the yi-qi wing with modified free fingers, but while the yi-qi modification has one solid bone at the edge of the membrane, only jointed at the wrist, the pterosaur wing has one flexible finger with multiple joints at the edge of the membrane. and regardless of which option you go with, the free fingers are also still attached to the wrist of the wing and will still affect and be affected by the movement of the wing. Personally, I think if you want wing arms with free fingers, the pterosaur is a perfectly good template to start from.

[magentagorilla]

Goliath

Gaston might have been my first awakening, but Goliath was the alarm after the first snooze. Strong daddy energy within. Maybe the reason why he got a surprise daughter in season 2. I vividly remember watching the episode where they turn into humans and wishing they has nipples also as gargoyles.

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[fantasy-anatomy-analyst]

Hallo!

One of the projects I’m working on involves six-limbed winged humans and I wanted to check if there are any changes you’d recommend (especially with folding them when closed, still trying to figure that out).

Long and short of their history is they were genetically engineered by some scientists pretty much to see if they could do it. Major differences to other humans is faster perception, the wings, some hollow bones/air sacs and smaller size (if the characters grew up on Earth they’d be about four and a half foot tall, but they’re taller because they grew up on mars with lower gravity).

I also added the weird elbow digit so the wings could fold away more tightly and to let the wing have a large enough area while still having the membrane attach kinda close to the base of the limb for easier clothes design.

Second images shows rough bone structure.

Any thoughts?

I like that they are bat wings and the genetic engineering angle is very fun.

but I don't think the elbow bit is necessary to let the wings fold tighter. Actually I think it would get in the way of all the folding skin and just make extra bulk.

It's very easy to underestimate just how small a bat wing can fold down! but when you look more at bat species like vampire bats or bentwing bats, which do not fold their wings around their bodies the way you expect from other bats, you really get a better idea of just how flexible those wings are.

(image description: photos of two bentwing bats. One is flying, showing its full narrow wings. the other is clinging to a tree, with its wings so tightly folded they almost look like they've vanished, only leaving the arm visible with the tips of the fingers pointed backwards close to the hips. end description.)

because they're made of very very thin stretchy skin, having that big swath of uninterrupted membrane between the torso and the "pinky finger" actually plays a huge role in allowing the wing to fold up so small.

it is admittedly kinda tricky to find nice high quality images of a bat wing folded up like this from multiple angles, but maybe @todaysbat can help with that, they have nigh encyclopedic knowledge of bats.

[fantasy-anatomy-analyst]

What does the muscle/skeletal anatomy of your bat people look like now? I know they must've changed over the years like the quetzalin.

since they were only created for the tutorials I made, I haven't actually been drawing any bat people lately. but! my skills in anatomy have improved since those old posts were made, so yes there are differences in how I draw bat people now vs back then lol.

for reference here's the masterpost I originally made for bat wing humanoids

I stand by the ideas in those posts, it's just how I drew the visuals that needs some improvement. artistic comparison time!

(Image description: two simple outline depictions of a humanoid with bat wings, highlighting the upper torso muscles in different colors.

in the first image the arm is missing, marking the shoulder with a circle, so it does not hide the muscle groups. The wing muscles are bigger and more prominent while the arm muscles are smaller and layered under the wing muscles, and the arm shoulder is roughly in the same place a normal human's shoulder would be. the wing membrane connects to a short tail rather than the legs.

in the second image, the wing musculature is almost the same as the first, but with a little more accuracy in its detail. here, the arm shoulder is lower and more forward on the torso, so the secondary muscles around it sit below the larger wing muscles instead of being squished between them. the rest of the body is also different, as the first image shows a mostly human face shape and legs, while the second image shows more bat like features. the tail here is also much longer. end description)

tada! new and improved bat wing musculature. moving the location of the "normal" arms is also a fix I made to the quetzalin, and I think it does a lot to improve the anatomy! it's less intuitive, because it looks so much less human, but it does free up more space for the wing muscles, which is important.

[fantasy-anatomy-analyst]

How would you go about designing a bat type membrane winged humanoid, but, no tails and no membrane down the legs. I’ve been pondering and driving myself insane

Longer torso to give the wing membrane a decent surface area. also probably narrower wings with a longer wingspan.

(image description: sketch of a humanoid figure with bat wings. the torso is longer than a normal human torso and the legs are shorter. end description)

this is the only source I can find that really shows off different bat wings shapes in a clear visual manner: https://www.slideserve.com/darrel-sims/flight-in-bats

(image description: diagram of several bat wing shapes with notes about wingspan, surface area, and how the mass of the bat affects the wing size. end description)

[fantasy-anatomy-analyst]

How would you design a winged humanoid with pterosaur wings? Would it be similar to bat wings? And could they launch themselves or gallop like pterosaurs can?

I'm answering this with the assumption it's about a winged humanoid who still has "normal" arms alongside the wings. If you go with typical pterosaur wing anatomy, the membrane would go down to the knees and also include another membrane between the legs and tail, which is not ideal for humanoid character design, especially if they're supposed to wear clothes lol. So for the sake of character design, I'll suggest what I did with bat wing humanoids and say the wing membrane ought to attach to the tail instead of the legs.

(image description: two digital sketch pages of simple humanoid figures with pterosaur wings. on the first page, there is also a simple outline sketch of a pterosaur in flight, displaying the shape of the wing arms and long torso. around it, humanoids in standing, crouching, and flying positions share the pterosaur's anatomy with the wing membrane attached to the thigh. in the second image, the humanoid has been redrawn with the wing membrane attached to a tail, and their human arms have been redrawn quite small, further forward and lower down on the torso. their thighs are also much shorter than their lower leg.)

folding the wing, they should be able to bend that long "finger" inward to cross their wingtips behind their legs. it's also good to note that pterosaur wings have a unique shape! the longer bones that really carry most of the membrane are actually very long hand bones and a singular extra long finger, while the other fingers are shorter and poke out funny. this is very different from bats and birds, who tend to have longer forearm bones and very small "hand" bones. also bats have several very long fingers and one extended thumb, usually.

you could make a pterosaur winged person walk on their wings, if you just shorten their legs and give them more of a forward slope in their torso, but it's not necessary. They can still do the cool pterosaur launch though! I'm picturing, like, they run forward and sort of throw themself toward the ground and then launch upward with their wings and legs simultaneously.

(image description: four simplified sketches showing the process described above, of a pterosaur winged person running forward, dropping down, and jumping upward with a push of their wings and legs. in the final sketch they are flying with fully spread wings. the wings have been colored red for visual clarity. end description.)

sorry for the very long delay in clearing out my inbox! holidays had me distracted.

[fantasy-anatomy-analyst]

How are humanoids with bat wings supposed to wear crop tops or two-piece outfits??

very sexily

(image description: a bat humanoid wearing a two piece outfit held together in the middle with a pair of crossed chains. the crop top portion is a dark red with a circular lace pattern. it has a collar and upper arm bands holding it in place, because there is no room for it to go around the back with the wings in the way. the lower half of their outfit is a pair of baggy dark blue pants with a light grid pattern on them. the pants dip low under their tail and rise higher on their belly, held up by the chains that connect to the crop top. they also have multiple ear piercings, a choker, and a pair of bracelets. end description.)

as long as there's a way to ensure that their clothes stay on, you can get as creative as you please!