First, I agree, make the character suffer, even if they is a bad one, cruel. If you csuse hurt, than you no beter than the other one (tho, note, bad actions should have consequences - as someone who learned social worker, I would suggest the reader -who is interested in human behaviours/problem solving- to look up what is restorative sollution {in short, it's a form of "punishemt" where the reaction of a bad action is not to hurt or literally punish, but to make the wrong right by the one who did it})
Second; could you help me out? Many sayes the S3 finale is bad, breaking Chloé's redemption, but like... No? She gets into a bad situation (being publicly known, tho, because of herself) and is treated unfairly (choosing a hero, who has no relation to the chase, despite that hero too was relevald) plus being in a bad spot, since her mom stayes in Paris, so she can't remove herself from the situation... But why do they say THAT was her assasination, not Sole Crusher (where she gets her next notable episode?)
Why I'm puzzled is;
- She asks to be Queen bee, and seems being in distress for having her family akumatized, and having no power to help them
- There's literally a scene showing her consideres HM's offer, BUT making the condotion he should de-akumatize her parents FIRST...
- It's literally a whole plotpoint that akumatized peaple has no memory, and threated as someone who is not accountable for their action... So here wouldn't be the same?
- Even at the end, I feel her not wanting to help LB is justified, as she did not helped her, either... Yet -IDK if this is because english translation or not, but- she still tells she intents to got to NY and be a HERO there. Not a villain, she sayes she still wants to be a hero, just independent
So, for me, in this episode, her behavior still feels toward trying to be good...
What is your take on this, or do you have idea why peaple dislike this episode, not Sole Crusher?
I have a background working with children, and it’s incredibly important that the consequences we give children for their poor choices directly match the action they chose (for example, you wouldn’t ground a child for a week just because they spilled the cereal all over the floor- you’d have them pick it up- natural consequences). The same principle applies to character writing (it’s more complicated than that because other characters get involved and make their own choices but you know).
I haven’t been in the critical side of Miraculous for a very long time, so I don’t really know the reasons people dislike the season 3 finale. I think it has more to do with the fact that seasons 2-3 promised us that they would give Chloe a redemption arc, and people saw the season 3 finale as going back on that promise. Other than that it seems perfectly fine to me but I don’t know what do you guys think?
I think people don’t care as much about Sole Crusher because they already knew that they were going to get Chloe being horrible (due to a mixture of Thomas Austruc’s tweets at the time and the way the season 3 finale ended). The shock had already worn off I think, and there was still a possibility she could get better. Queen Banana and Penalteam crushed that hope though.
I agree though, the true assassination of Chloe’s character started in season 4, where they made her meaner than she ever was before in season 1. Season 5 disgusted me in its treatment of her (Andre’s treatment of Chloe was deplorable- it would be one thing if the show indicated that Andre was in the wrong, but from what I saw it didn’t). The writers did everything in their power to demean Chloe, and I found myself just… tired by it. They were beating a dead horse at that point. It was exhausting.
I know this is a really late reaction considering the season has been over for a while now, but I cannot even express how much I hate the fact that the writers of Miraculous Ladybug made the decision to have the final battle with Hawkmoth WITHOUT CHAT NOIR!!! The show is riddled with writing missteps, but somehow I never would’ve thought they’d do something this awful.
I honestly stopped watching the show when they dropped the ball on Chloe’s redemption arc. Too me it never made sense that she *was* getting better only to get even worse randomly with no explanation for *why*
Than I found out it was because some writer came back and decided he had a vendetta against a literal fictional character, and everything made sense. Honestly I think Amity from the owl house took a charater very much like Chloe and actually did something good with the character.
This is the show of missed potential.
don’t even get me started on how literally anyone who defends the writers almost always ends up basically saying that victims that lash out because of their abuse deserve to never get better.
There's a lot of circumstantial evidence to piece together theories on why what happened. I'm hoping the movies do well, and I'm still curious-ish for S6.
The fandom discussions are... a thing. Everyone is so bitter that they form camps, and the 'If you're not with us you're against us' is extremely high.
I'm met salters who can't admit any part of the show is good.
I've met cultists who can't admit any part of the show is bad.
Very few people want to just, talk about the show.
I love breaking down what works and what doesn't. I love analyzing missteps not just to gloat or hate, but to see why something didn't work, and how it *could* have worked. That's fun. Media analysis is fun.
Scoring points in some weird game of team loyalty isn't fun for me.
So I have been going through Miraculous again with some roommates I got into the show. This rewatch has given me a new look and upon finishing Felix I think Amelie is just as controlling as the other horrible rich parents, she just uses different methods.
Amelie controls by kindness. In Felix I believe she is testing to see how far Felix will go for her, so make a big deal about getting the de Vanily twin rings to see what he does. When he gets a ring back praise him and thank him for doing this for you then give him a ring as a reward. This makes it really easy to approach Felix with a sigh looking at the ring he is wearing and saying truly what I wanted was the Peacock miraculous.
But why? Why would she do this? I think she is interested in owning all the miraculous. I think that she or rather her family "owns" the land in Thailand that Gabriel, Natalie, and herself went to and found the Peacock in. Therefore as far as she see's it she owns all the miraculous. Why she wants them now? I do not know, but I do not trust her.
Why does Alya still think that Lila is nice??? Did Marinette not tell her about everything? If that's the case then I think that's a little weird considering she trusts Alya enough to tell her that she's Ladybug.
Ok one more thing. Why didn't Adrien stand up for himself either and say that he wasn't just agreeing with Marinette cuz he likes her?
I hate how this show is playing with our Lukanette feels, like a roller coaster of emotions and crushed dreams, yet we still fall for it EVERY FREAKING TIME they bait us with HOPE because we’re starving for content.
This can’t be healthy for my heart... I’m losing my mind 😫
I wanna know more about Luka's soul song gift - like how much do emotions or personality play into it? ((I’m going with a lot)) Does it only work in person?? Or can he get like snippets from videos or vibes from pictures? Like it would make sense if it was only in person...... But where's the fun I'm that? Realistically it wouldn't be as strong as in person but I could see him getting some stuff. Pictures it probably wouldn't be a lot, or even much of anything, unless the soul song really didn't match the picture...
Which means Luka is one of the first people to realize something is Up with Adrien (and the Agrestes in general)
The ads around the city never felt right, never matched up with the snippets/vibes he was able to get - unless Adrien was supposed to be sad or melancholy. Which is... yikes...
Then the Adrien The Fragrance commercial happens. And that's an additional big Fucking Yikes
Like I can only imagine that Adrien isn't particularly big on modelling in general from what we've seen (with the Marinette-exception) so the filming of that could have only been Worse than normal. How many times did it take to get the emotions at the ‘right’ level? How long did it take to get the angles and all the action done?
Anyway: after the first time Luka literally cannot stomach watching it or even listening to it because it is so Wrong. The soul song snippets from the video are longer and more intense and it is just so discordant that Luka can't deal
Adrien is most certainly NOT feeling carefree. Or radiant. Or remotely dreamy. He's goddamn exhausted, frustrated, resigned, depressed, sweaty, anxious, awkward, stressed. It is a whole stew of (teen) angst offset with that upbeat music and the bright blue sky & all that w h i t e and the jumping for joy
It is such a strong dichotomy Luka has a visceral reaction every time and has to either leave the room or mute it and look away,
All of that means that after he meets Adrien in person, and gets to hear his soul song in a couple different situations and can see his emotions matching internally and externally he basically tells him they will always have space for him on the Liberty. (Also the first time he saw the LB + CN movie and heard Adrien's voice acting he only picked up some nerves - easily attributed to a new situation rather than a secret identity - but he was clearly enjoying himself even if it was a terrible script)
Therefore, Luka doesn't have particularly good feelings towards Gabriel, even before seeing any videos of him.
Style Queen was a Time. He was happy for Adrien but the bits he was getting from Gabriel were so rigid and tight... And rather selfish to boot. Which was weird given the situation
He has to try very very hard to not sneer or snarl at the tablet he first "meets" him on - probably at a Kitty Section practice or concert or at some class + family event.
I can also v easily picture him meeting him in person and being super uncomfortable at the sheer amount of manipulation and self-aggrandizing, selfishness, etc that rolls off of Gabriel, basically choking out his soul song. Either Lula barely refrains from punching Gabriel and manages to shake his hand but then desperately needs to clean his hands. Orrrr he does punch him and then basically coats his hands in sanitizer (either way he is Nino’s absolute favorite person for this alone)
Also, this would not be the first time Luka has figured out an abusive situation. It has happened with both his own and Juleka's friends & classmates. He is v much a protective older brother at heart
And because I damn well can have some Lila salt, some of which has been touched on before, unlike with Gabriel:
He had heard about her from Juleka and Kitty Section and was a bit confused about it but it wasn't until Rose was over and the girls were telling him about some of Lila's stories that he saw a picture of her.
And that was The Strongest he had ever reacted to a picture before: instant chills up his spine and an actual hiss escaped him
All 3 of them are shocked. Luka then has to explain that reaction as best as he can. Which is hard when you aren't great at words and while the soul song fragments are rather clear he would never make his guitar suffer trying to recreate them.
He manages tho and Julerose are at least wary of her afterwards. They start observing her more and a lot of her behavior and the way she talks can be very off-putting. They start noticing some of the digs that she makes at others, that she contradicts herself 5 different ways, and how she is constantly bringing the attention back to herself.
During all this they start noticing how both Marinette and Adrien react to her and it is Not Good. Mari gets defensive and will often try to bring up those contradictions that they started noticing. But jealousy is only a minor factor, at most. In certain situations it is possible that it could be involved... except those only happen when Adrien is looking very uncomfortable and Marinette notices or they make eye contact and then Marinette creates an opportunity for him to escape
Which is something that no one else is noticing which is really terrible and unhealthy...
Around this time is when Ivan has started to figure out something is up. and then he definitely knows when Julerose show Luka a video at a private band practice.
Because video and in person interactions make the BadBadBAD feelings worse and Ivan, while he often struggles with understanding & expressing emotions, has definitely noticed Lila - even though she is not actually there - causes a lot of stress and anxiety to Luka and he has gotten really good at methods of lessening those.
So, Luka sees the video with/of Lila and has an even stronger reaction than the picture before. His eyes get huge, and his face pales (gets slightly sickly?), and he hisses even stronger than the first time
He refuses to try to play her soul song because something like that is nearly impossible to recreate but also doesn’t need to be put out into the world but does his best to try and describe it
Possible: her soul song feels like it is drowning in toxic sludge - there is just so much negativeness that it is barely intelligible. It is being smothered by self-satisfaction and importance, narcissism, aggressive manipulation, pettiness, vile maliciousness, etc
In person interactions are awful. Luka avoids physical interaction as much as possible. Even more than he would with Gabriel, and he wants as little to do with that man as possible, ideally none. But Lila is worse...
There have been multiple times that he has had to step out/away to be able to get some fresh air and breathe again. At least once where he has been or almost has been sick - usually following a hug that he did not consent to or something similar
Ivan is definitely in the fold now, and Julerose share what they have noticed from taking their step back. He realizes he has noticed a lot of those same things but he wasn’t analyzing them and didn’t have the same context for them at the time that Luka, Juleka, and Rose did. But afterwards he picks up on them more clearly, and some other things they hadn’t - benefits of being one of the quiet kids (and a lesser target of Lila’s focus). He is part of the driving force in bringing Marinette and Adrien in first before going to others.
Marinette breaks down because more people believe her?? and support her and Adrien? it is a huge relief of tension. And she didn’t even have to convince them herself!! what a concept... but it is definitely a safe space for her and she can share her own experiences and that certainly is nice
they had all suspected Something was Up but weren’t expecting that so there are lots of hugs and tears and support and mutters of payback
Adrien eventually cries because Kitty Section + Marinette give him a TedTalk about consent and personal autonomy. And now he has so many people (!!!) telling him he can say no and make his own choices, mistakes, and decisions. (Marinette’s part is largely “I told you so / do you believe us now?” because the Dupain-Chengs have probably already given this same talk as a family but that is just A family’s opinion, others probably think differently) And this is the first time he really truly believes it and... oooof there are a lot of emotions and interactions to unpack and reconsider
but now he knows he really needs to and that he can and should which is new, but so is having an actual support system...
Thus, Luka is ready to fight a bitch the first time he sees Lila and Adrien interacting. There is so much clinging and touching, and Adrien is panicking and no one is doing anything or is being waved off. And (unfortunately) this is one of the things that causes some people to start questioning things about Lila. Because most of them know of Luka as a really chill, laid-back guy who is open and accepting of people. and besides he has no reason to be jealous (((👀👀👀👀 too much to think about and unpack t h e r e))) so why would he be upset about Lila leaning on Adrien and holding his arm??
So, the questioning of Lila and what she says spreads out from Kitty Section and Adrinette to the rest of the class. They take a different approach. They slowly, carefully approach their classmates and take them aside when possible to talk about the situation
This allows them to be able to get their undivided attention and lay out what they have found out in a logical and cohesive manner, rather than attempting something rash or in the heat of the moment. Marinette grumbled about this method initially but when there were actual results and the burden was shared it was a huge relief for her.
In fact, others start coming to them about Lila.
because of the work of Kitty Section and Adrinette Lila’s audience has been steadily decreasing and it is getting easier to notice things. With a smaller audience the focus doesn’t get split as much and there are less questions for her to build off of or go on tangents from and the contradictions start standing out more, or she’s making more to try and keep them around her by holding their interest with different details
Plus, the comments about those outside Her Circle are getting meaner and more frequent. Usually they are still sneaky or underhanded but nowhere near as subtle as they were originally (were they ever, really?) and it is raising suspicions and hackles.
Eventually, Lila is left without an audience because the class has all been brought out of the cloud of manipulation and are working on trust and listening to each other more/better. and on how to not disregard other’s feelings (which is esp important with the high butterfly population in Paris, but is a v good life lesson in general). they are young and will make mistakes and will have to learn from them. but trials, growth, and change are all part of life so it is good for them.
But it essentially all stems from Luka and his ability to hear soul songs and reacting to those songs, or the lack thereof when they are being choked by evil intentions/emotions/actions/what have you
Im so afraid of the Shangai episode and the introduction of the Guardians because the possibility of cultural innacurate and stereotypes.
I am more worried since the summary sounded spotty to me. But Lets give it a chance before jumping on this. Maybe they actually play it right. Gotta give them a benefit of the doubt on that one.
