#monster speech

[eyecicles]

What do you think about L's monster speech ?

I’ve talked about it a few times. And I mainly think the speech doesn’t work for manga!L.

What all DN adaptions (minus the musical, perhaps) have in common is that they always try to make L softer, more relatable, or in other ways more sympathetic. So while he calls himself a monster here—admits that he isn’t exactly innocent—it’s used to make L seem more torn about both his tactics and his lifestyle. There’s one instance in the manga of L being self-deprecating, but he himself admits later that he was essentially just moping.

Relight (and I’d argue the anime in general) takes this a step further and paints him as someone who feels bad about lying, about having no deep relationships and so on.

And that scene really is quite straightforward: L uses all sorts of tactics to accomplish his goals—which achievements mainly just give him a hollow sort of pleasure—and neglects his “human” side, and that (apparently) makes him a monster in his eyes. It’s quite easy to disagree with him here! It wouldn’t surprise me if that’s what they were aiming for, which in turn would probably make you feel sorry for him.

The closest equivalent to the speech we have in the manga is L saying he would be a criminal in the eyes of the law, and that he catches criminals for fun. But it’s not a moral evaluation, it’s instead used as a reality check for the Wammy kids, to leave them no illusions about who he is and what he does.

I do sort of see why someone could interpret even the original L as lonely, at least, but there’s still no reason to think that he struggles with self-loathing. But if the added rain scene wasn’t obvious enough, the “monster speech” makes it even clearer that that’s what the anime thinks of L.

It ultimately comes down to L being a fan favourite, and woobifying him a bit is a form of fan-service, haha.

I personally think that the pitiless way in which the manga treats L is much more intriguing and fitting for his character. Doesn’t mean you can’t feel sorry for him—on the contrary—the sadness I feel for him is much more natural than whatever emotional reactions the anime causes in me.

Uh yeah, what all of this means is that I don’t like the “monster speech”. Especially not when someone uses it to contrive an overly complex, if not contradicting, image of L the manga would never give you. I don’t think the speech is nearly as sophisticated as some people in the fandom seem to believe.

[kiranatrix]

A “conversation” with L

[kiranatrix]

I like how L's "I am that monster" speech can be interpreted either as L having a superiority complex and thinking about himself as ubermensch, either as L having an inferiority complex and hating his own nature for making him unable to be a normal person. As someone who felt both these ways about my own neurodivergence, I can project myself on L both ways.

Hi anon. That’s an interesting perspective. This ask seems to come from a personal place so I don’t mean to knock your feelings about the speech or L. These are just my thoughts about L and that speech.

I guess its hard for me to see how that speech (in the Relight movie) implies that L thinks of himself as superior in that way. Nietzsche’s ‘ubermensch’ is a term I could see applying to how Light viewed himself-- someone transcending humanity who feels fit to impose their own morals and will on the world to transform it. Light wanted to do that but L never cared to. Nietzsche ties the ubermensch to the death of God, and this slots in well with Light’s knowledge of Mu as a motivating factor to make the most of his life on Earth while he could (per Ohba’s view of the message of the manga). When Ryuk told told Light that there was nothing for humans after death, only everlasting nothingness for good and bad people alike, that’s a god-killing statement. (I don’t really like the term ubermensch because of the historical connotations but that’s beside the point)

But back to L, I don’t recall seeing in his thoughts that he explicitly believed himself to be superior over others but it probably shows in how he speaks to Matsuda and Misa-- calling them ‘stupid’ or implying it, etc. L always thought he was right and (usually) that his way was the best, but the sum total of his efforts in life had indeed proven to himself and others that he was a singular kind of person. He was realistic about his abilities and intelligence, and could be callous to those who didn’t share them. Smart people can be dicks about that sometimes lol. So, I can’t really buy that he believed he was inferior. 

If I had to guess, L accepted he was different from most people in ways both good and bad and didn’t find a lot of value in bemoaning it after figuring that out. He accepted himself as he was, for better or worse, because understanding himself and his strengths/limitations was also a kind of power. The ‘worse’ part could play into that speech about monsters and which kind he felt he was-- cunning monsters who always tell lies, have no understanding of the human heart, cannot form friendships or love, cannot feel hunger, who attain knowledge without appreciating or advancing it. If this is how L views himself it is bleak but he states it so matter-of-factly I cannot equate it with self-hate. It feels like deep self-acceptance, to the point that he doesn’t see himself changing, and recognizes its a weakness that someone like him could identify and exploit. 

So, his answer to the kid at Wammy’s, to name his fear, is meeting a ‘monster’ like himself who also knew what they were, because that would be the one who could beat him.  

[eyecicles]

What are your thoughts on the 'Monsters' speech? Isn't it wildly different from its manga counterpart?

“There are many types of monsters that scare me: Monsters who cause trouble without showing themselves, monsters who abduct children, monsters who devour dreams, monsters who suck blood… and then, monsters who tell nothing but lies. Lying monsters are a real nuisance: They are much more cunning than others. They pose as humans even though they have no understanding of the human heart; they eat even though they’ve never experienced hunger; they study even though they have no interest in academics; they seek friendship even though they do not know how to love. If I were to encounter such monsters, I would likely be eaten by them… because in truth, I am that monster.”

(Copy-pasted the speech so people know what we’re talking about, ha)

My main thought is that I don’t see anything in the manga that suggests that L sees himself as a monster. He’s canonically a pretty pragmatic and mostly rational person, very much believes that the ends justify the means and is quick to defend his more harsher methods.

I’ve never got the feeling that L felt conflicted over much he did, really. There’s this scene, very early in the manga, where he sort of partly blames himself for Kira managing to murder the FBI agents that were sent to Japan at L’s request. He can acknowledge that he could have prevented that from happening if he didn’t get distracted, but to me, that isn’t enough to believe that he feels guilty about lying all the the time. Ohba himself calls L a liar, yes, but all his lies serve a purpose and are not at all unusual for someone of his profession. (Just watching one real interrogation video would make this very clear, haha)

Of course that doesn’t mean that he never has his moments of doubt, but for him to be able to give such an elaborate and well thought-out speech about being a monster, in more than just one way, he would have to have some deep sitting self-doubts or even self-hatred. Which is frankly something I don’t see at all in manga!L.

And I specifically say manga!L here, because the anime already took a different turn with his characterisation before Relight. I’m mostly talking about episode 25, of course. It paints L as a pretty sentimental person who’s emotionally involved in the Kira case in ways that weren’t hinted at in the manga at all.

So while this speech sounds pretty OOC to me for manga!L, I guess the same can’t be said about anime!L. His characterisation is a bit… wonky and definitely not as well-rounded as manga!L’s, but I can see why they thought it would make sense for anime!L to say something like this.

But also: it’s an answer to a question that was never asked in the manga. In chapter 109, Near remembers what L told him and the other kids at Wammy’s about his profession specifically:

Which basically only cemented how I always saw L: as a ridiculously smart person who solves crimes because it’s fun, as someone who doesn’t concern himself too much with questions about good and evil.

He doesn’t even care what happens to Kira after convicting him:

In Relight, a kid asks him about what he’s afraid of. So I see it more as an addition than a counterpart. Near says everyone had asked L all kinds of questions, but Near only elaborates on one of them.

There’s one aspect I do like about his Monster Speech: the lack of shame in the manner he answers the child’s question, which is pretty in-character. Kind of ironic, actually, because the speech is all about guilt, haha.

I will admit that there are many legit ways to interpret L, though. The fact that his thoughts are almost exclusively about the Kira case in the manga, and rarely tinged with his personal feelings about it, leaves a lot of his personality open to interpretation. I personally just don’t see L as someone who would feel guilty about his lying, limited interest in intellectual pursuits, his eating habits or inability/disinterest in forming deeper bonds to other people.

The idea that L has issues with his self-image, or even something akin to social anxiety, isn’t new and something some people even think about manga!L, but that’s definitely not how I see him. His awkwardness is partly due to his poor social skills and partly deliberate, in my opinion.

I always thought L rather likes himself…

And that he finds successfully manipulating people, if anything, amusing:

&

A speech about not primarily caring about bringing justice to criminals, fits L therefore way better.

Still, I saw some interesting analyses about the Monster Speech from people who took it more seriously than I ever could. I don’t outright hate it and it’s not indisputably contradictory to L’s personality, but I still believe it… skewed some people’s perception of him. Which I find regrettable.

[ask-the-sweets-detective]

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(Ahhh I did my best. I have a bit of a girly voice so this was hard to do!)