#multi spec issues

[nbandproud]

Second version of the [someone] loving [someone] tables! If you don’t know what this is about, please open that link there.

I am aware several terms are “missing”, but that’s because, the way this table is made, there’s no way I can accurately place terms that are like “wlnb, wlw, nblw but not nblnb”.

I know gender and attraction are complicated things, and I think it’s totally valid to feel like you are mlm and wlw without feeling like you are mlw or wlm, for instance.

However, these tables are just something I made for fun and so I can have a quick look at a part of the table and find the term I’m looking for. This is also why I’m not adding specific nonbinary identities to the mix, although of course I believe you have the right to have specific labels such as for neutrois loving maverique or xenogender loving agender or genderfluid loving genderfluid and so on.

I should also add that I will only do another major update when the table is complete/mostly complete, so when you see this, this might not be fully updated anymore.

[nbandproud]

I understand that “you don’t need to understand it but you need to respect it” is true and an important statement, but I wish there was also some awareness that maybe it isn’t cool to shove on people’s faces how much you don’t understand it or think it’s weird or see no reason for it to exist or think it’s probably fake

like I get it, you don’t want to be lumped with the weirdos, you don’t want people to approach you asking how can a certain orientation, gender identity, belief, neurotype, etc. work, you find all those ~weird labels and other terminology~ inconvenient and wish other people would shut up and be/act like you even if you don’t say it out loud

but if you really care about not hurting other people with what you say, you should also work on not taking every opportunity you get to tell the world you are Still Normal even if you support/don’t actively shit on The Weirdos

(for instance, if you can understand how being a man is a thing and you can’t understand how being genderfae is a thing, even though these are equally vague, saying you "can’t understand how someone could be genderfae even if you won’t send hate mail for it” is still sending the message that you don’t think being genderfae is equally valid as being a man)

[nbandproud]

ok so like... serious question

I understand that saying multi people experience homomisia contributes to erasure, because not all multi people are attracted to the same gender as them, and also because they are not “homo” or “partly gay/lesbian” in any way.

But if anti-multi sentiments/discrimination (bimisia, multimisia, anti-multi monosexism, etc.) is only rooted on having attraction to multiple genders, isn’t that saying multi people don’t experience anything bad for being sapphic/achillean?

I get that focusing on “sga” is shitty and all, and that attraction that includes NB people is also not normalized, but... if, say, a couple of two men is attacked, and one of them is gay and the other bi, can we specify anything further than heterosexist violence?

And *if* we should only focus on the fact that it’s violence against people for not being straight, shouldn’t we be saying more than “bi people only suffer from monosexism/bimisia and not from anti-gay bigotry/homomisia”?

[nbandproud]

maybe I should call myself a toric-leaning versian...?

(toric is nblm and versian is nblw, nblnb and nblm)

[nbandproud]

exorsexist people: bi is for people who are attracted to men and women!

REGs: bi is for people who are attracted to both male-aligned people/men and female-aligned people/women!

ignorant people: if you like nonbinary people, you are pan, because if you attracted to nonbinary people you must be attracted to all genders/regardless of gender, right?

some nonbinary people: hey we made terms that explicitly include attraction to men and nonbinary people / women and nonbinary people without being necessarily attracted to the other binary gender, because vague multi labels usually carry the connotation of liking both binary genders for a lot of people. Some of us still use bi or ply, but we would also like to have more specific terminology and community, especially since some of us are tired of being considered wrong or ignored because we don't fit the usual multi-attracted narrative.

REGs, and other exorsexist and/or ignorant people: um just use bi?? or pan??? don't you think you are being anti-bi or anti-pan for making up new labels instead of using existing ones? why are you being special snowflakes about it?? look at this cringy mogai self-hating bullshit lol

[nbandproud]

i think a lot of the shit on labels (and i agree with you btw) is coming from peoples' own insecurities, they feel like "homoflexible" invalidates, demeans and lessens their own sexuality when like... buddy... get a grip peoples' identities don't exist purely in orbit of yours

Yeah, definitely!

I think this definitely happens when people jump to “just use [more common label]”; maybe they have a complicated identity and feel like it’s outrageous to actually specify that. (Although they can also be doing that just be assholes and not want to acknowledge people with different labels within their communities.)

There are some cases where people feel like they are actually helping, because *they* are bi and just identified as heteroflexible because it was somewhat more accepted in straight circles, or because of internalized monosexism since other people looked and said “hm, 9 duaric relationships and 1 sapphic one, I guess you are not really bi” even though the person felt equal attraction to men and women.

But, like... admitting who you really are is hard. Maybe someone finds it harder to identify as gay because they don’t want to give up the option of a duaric relationship because of heteronormativity, and then they identify as homoflexible for a while even if they really aren’t. And maybe someone else just identifies as gay because, even though they have exceptions, they don’t want to be seen as a joke, or to be pushed out of the community.

[nbandproud]

like... it’s fine to fit within the pan definition and id as bi instead, regardless if it’s because “it’s easier” or because of your history with the bi label or because of flag aesthetics or whatever...

and it’s perfectly fine to id with both bi and pan labels, and to id with both of those and also with other labels that still fit your experience with attraction

but can people please, please stop saying there is no difference whatsoever between both labels, that it’s “just personal preference”, even though one label is for people who are attracted to two or more genders and another is for people who are attracted to all of them?

can you please stop implying being attracted to some nonbinary identities is the same thing as being attracted to all nonbinary identities?

can you please stop implying people who are attracted to multiple genders without being attracted to both binary genders don’t exist, shouldn’t be acknowledged, or aren’t really bi/ply/multi?

can you please remember that bi people who are not attracted to all genders, or who don’t know if they are and prefer bi specifically because it’s a broader label, exist???

[nbandproud]

I hate when bi people talk over how other people should identify... like, I'm bi myself, but that doesn't mean other people should be forced to identify in the same way.

Heck, this coercion to identify as ~bi spectrum~ when multi was specifically coined because other multi people are tired of being considered "basically bi" makes more people want to not have anything to do with the bi community at all.

Yes, paro people, pan people, ply people, some cetero people, heteroflexible people, and so on could identify as bi if they wanted, and maybe stigma plays a part when avoiding the bi label (for some people, not all), but... leave people alone.

If you don't like people saying your orientation could be more accurately described as feminaflexible, pan, ply, paro or others, and coercing you into participating in those communities because you are "in their spectrum", don't do it to other people?

And even if you don't mind having multiple labels, some people just have bad experiences with the bi community, or don't find any use for adding the bi label to their orientation. And that is okay.