#nabatean stuff

[randomnameless]

I remember seeing some posts around about how the Fodlan games echoed to the fact that some people who have responsabilities don't want to be saddled by them, or would rather (should?) seek their own happiness instead of facing them -

worst mom musings under the cut

Reading Duo!Sothis' lines in her alt with her daughter made me remember this :

Bar the WTF about Sothis feeling self-conscious when she's portrayed as an arrogant brat, and despite the limbo this alt's in (aka it's a Sothis who hasn't heard Rhea sing as of yet, or isn't on the verge of merging with Billy, thus hasn't recovered her memories, and she's definitely not the one from Nopes), Sothis doesn't want to be called a goddess.

In game, we have this line from her :

When she's about to disappear but not really because plot reasons, Sothis acknowledges that she didn't act or behave like she feels a goddess should have, but at least she had fun.

Are we supposed to believe Sothis doesn't want to do her Goddess things/duties and would rather have fun, even if it means the world is screwed and Billy has to clean after her?

Again, there's this tidbit :

But then, before being fridged, she acknowledges that she is the arbitrer of each soul and Fodlan's guardian...

I am the one who watches over Fódlan and the creatures dwelling there.

はじまりのもの……フォドラの守護者にして 生きとし生けるものを導く神祖

(JP Sothis calls herself the progenitor god, aka the title Rhea Seteth and Constance (i know) use for her and the Guardian, aka the role that was given to the Immaculate One, who later says she was acting as Sothis' proxy!)

So what, she doesn't want to share her blessings to people who yearn for her, because it's not "so cheap", and yet we know she's supposed to look and guide people (thus sharing her blessings?) so...?

Are we supposed to understand the gremlin is a deadbeat goddess? Like, she dgaf about her role and duties, only wincing when she remembers them but dgaf as long as she had fun?

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As for more deadbeat mom moments :

IIRC, in FE16, Sothis wonders if she had a family back then, later she remembers having wrote and sang a lullaby to someone...

I know this most likely isn't the Sothis from around that time, but once again, just like Fodlan gave us "Sothis the deadbeat mom" never interacting with her youngest daughter - unless she's dying and reached an A-rank support with Byleth - even when her avatar uses her spine to brutally murder her, here we have IS choosing to write the "amnesiac but not really or not?" Sothis feel disturbed by Rhea's open affection for her.

No more wondering if she had a family or trying to recover her memories, we just have "I don't remember, stop calling me like that, I'm self-conscious stop calling me a God but I expect respect from Billy" and, maybe it's my own bias for having posted about it since 2019, but this exchange?

Sothis: I do not disagree with you on that point, yet... The idea that I once birthed a child feels somehow unreal. And yet you call me "mother..." Rhea: It's terribly sad to know you do not recognize me... Just know that, no matter what you look like...you are still my mother. I spent so many years seeking you. I... I felt I would lose my mind... Sothis: Now, you listen to me! This is a festival. I will not have you wear such a sad look upon your face. Ugh, fine! On this occasion, you may call me whatever you like, whether "mother" or "mama." Hmph... Rhea: Thank you so very much! Fortunately, today is the Day of Devotion, a day to express gratitude... I would like to express my gratitude to you, Mother. I have never been able to do so. Until now. Sothis: *sigh* I do not remember doing anything, but it appears pointless for me to even say as much. Rhea: Before that... I am wondering if you could please entertain one request from me. Sothis: Well then, do not hold back now that so much has been spoken. Tell me. Rhea: I want you to call me by my name. Just like back then. Call me... "Immaculate One."

Reminded me of this :

Nino: “Mother…just once… if only for a little while… may I…hold your hand?” Sonia: “Nino, you know how I abhor such displays.” Nino: “I… I know. But…I may not get another chance… And I thought…” Sonia: “…Very well.” Nino: “Huh?” Sonia: “If you complete this mission, I’ll hold your hand as often as you like. I will even hug you and stroke your face.”

Credit where's it's due, Sothis at least doesn't want Rhea to feel down so she "allows" her to call her Mother out of, I guess, goodwill and not a ploy to have her comply with whatever orders she asks - but we're in the same case of a woman being off-put or ill-at-ease with their respective children demonstrating some sort of affection for them, and their reluctance to show or even accept this affection.

I'm not saying "women must automatically be good mothers" trope, but with this convo? Sothis doesn't remember and doesn't wish to remember - when canon wise she wanted to! She even wanted to know how her family was doing! - and seemingly has no desire to reconnect with her daughter.

This alt feels like Rhea's happy/super exicted (I wonder how Leigh will play those lines out) to hang out with Sothis... while Sothis feels bothered or weirded out.

There's no wish to reconnect, no asking what and why Rhea loves her so much, no mention of any other member of the family, nothing. Just a daughter loving her mother a lot, and a mother feeling distant, weirded out, and showing affection out of obligation.

Again, kuddos to FEH to have written Sothis to be in an even more toxic relationship with her daughter than what existed in FE16.

Hell, Nopes, for all the flak I give it, managed to convey through their battle convos more warmth/interaction/sense of Sothis being proud and happy to interact with her kids, than this duo unit that was advertised as "Rhea and Sothis finally reunite!".

I'm half wondering why Sothis is smiling in her artwork, given what the relationships between the two is in their lines, no matter what the CD artwork suggested, reading those lines now? I can't picture Sothis singing or playing a song for Rhea. At least not the Sothis depicted in this alt.

Nopes!Sothis maybe, especially since FEH retconned her anger to be tied to the fate of her children, aka learning they were massacred.

Granted, in her base game, she can marry her avatar after wiping out her daughter's blood from her spine, or can radically keep on ignoring her despite her desperate please and breakdown if her avatar doesn't care enough about said daughter.

And let's not talk about her role as the goddess, bcs it doesn't matter as long as she has fun, so who really cares?

yeah :/

[randomnameless]

I was looking at the names of the other Sacred Weapons in FE3H and now I wonder if the Swords of Moralta and Begalta are named for the Nabateans who presumably wielded them (same as how Serios' sword is named for her). Both are Celtic names for mythical weapons, but I noticed that they have the crests of Chevalier and Riegan respectively, AKA the Sun and Moon Dragons. Now I wonder if maybe they were twins who both wielded swords or something like that.

Hi!

I can only say "maybe" because 10k years of lore, but if following the theory crests aren't unique and like, Sothis might have created more than one kid per sign (maybe 5 earth dragons besides Cichol, etc etc) but that would be nice !

Isn't the Riegan sign the one for a star dragon though?

Maybe both Chevalier, Moralta and Begalta were Sun dragons, Moralta and Begalta would have died around Nemesis' party or before ?

Imagine if they were originally smiths - Begalta and Moralta both - and taught Indech (and maybe Macuil) how to make weapons? The swords would be meant for other dragons (a star dragon who might have been the one Riegan pilfered, ditto for a shield dragon and Fraldarius?) but with no one left to use them, Macuil decided to wield the blade crafted by his teachers and meant for their deceased siblings?

Now that I think about it, maybe the Saints' (and apostles, if they were nabateans) weapons and equipment were mementos of their lost siblings, if Seiros the Warrior copied Gun-Fu Sis' hairdo, maybe Macuil used his brother/sister's sword to avenge them, or something - wouldn't it be sort of poetic if he kills Riegan with the blade that was meant for the dragon Riegan consumed?

But if the blades were, say, a set of two, made by a Sun dragon for Begalta and Moralta, shield and star dragons - maybe those swords are the only way they are remembered and survive through Fodlan, assuming they were the dragons consumed by Riegan and Fraldarius, they lost their names and powers to their killers, and yet, their name is still around thanks to those swords!

and not as, you know, gross eldritch abominations who might or not be sentient

[randomnameless]

I meme a lot about the latest banner and the various videos and lines it gave us but, if there is one thing it reignited about my general thoughts about Fodlan, it's frustration.

Or, why must we wait for Forging Bonds centered on dragons from other verses to have breadcrumbs about Nabateans and how they perceive their role and existence in Fodlan ?

Musings about the Seteth/Gotoh convo under the cut

Imagine if that character learnt Rhea, the seemingly random Archbishop, was actually the legendary Saint Seiros revered through Fodlan, who also lived more for more than 1 000 years?

It seems that there are some Shambhala loyalists in Nemesis's forces. As long as they're around, we can expect them to continue with their cruel experiments. Yes. We have to. It's the only way to ensure nobody else will go through what I went through. We must obliterate them in the next battle. It's the only recompense for Edelgard's death.

Nah, let's not think about it and pour a cup of earl grey tea instead !

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All jokes aside, this?

Is peak distortion/gap that exists between Fodlan characters in Fodlan, and Fodlan characters when they are logically explored outside of Fodlan, in FEH (or even for Billy, in FE17!).

Seteth, in Fodlan, can never talk or mention his feelings, thoughts or experiences as a Nabatean walking alongside humanity in Fodlan.

The closest thing we have is Rhea's parting words in Golden Trashfire, where she laments that without Nabateans to guide them, humans are bound to repeat their mistakes of the past.

We infer Seteth agrees with her, but we never hear his version of what he thinks is his role in Fodlan... bar this FEH exclusive conversation, with a fellow dragon, Y!Gotoh.

Much like his siblings (?), Seteth finds humans fascinating - but the adapting and evolving according the "times they live in"? That's a pure FEH thing.

It's Gotoh who has to point out - using "we" - how Seteth, and Rhea and Sothis, bestow their knowledge and guide humanity, passing on their teachings.

However, given how Gharnef isn't singing Jpop songs while wearing a sailor fuku of freedom, Gotoh's guidance and teachings are never thwarted in some "pointy ears control us", so this conversation, which is all about acceptance and what dragons can bring to humans, can be held.

It's only in FEH that Seteth can talk about what he feels, as a Nabatean, and how he also perceives himself as someone who can observe, but also guide humanity, passing on Sothis' teachings.

This part about knowledge is interesting too, because Nabateans are known to have banned/slowed down knowledge (the various bans) and while Sothis shared freely hers, it led to Titanuses, giant missiles and war.

Through his interrogation about Athos' motives to teach "so many" apprentices (afaik there's only Pent? Unless he's talking about Eliwood and co?), we can guess he's making a direct parallel with Sothis' teachings being shared through the CoS, but also, in a way, his own guidance shared through the Officer's Academy.

Knowledge blooms when it is shared and put to good use...

This is a bit bittersweet coming from Athos, whose friend Nergal lost himself in the pursuit of "knowledge" and even more bittersweet when we take into account this convo is about Gotoh!

Who is Gotoh's most famous student?

Who developped Imhullu and brought the continent to ruin not once, but twice?

Since this FB is all about hope Naga had about peaceful coexistence with humans, the devs didn't want to add Gharnef to the "student-teacher" reunion that is Gotoh's last conversation lol, but that's the caveat : dragons can share their knowledge and walk alongside humanity... when humanity is supposed to use that knowledge to prosper, bring warm food or "light the world".

If humans don't use that resource properly though?

The world ends up with Gharnef, the Agarthans, CF!Billy, Fraud, etc etc.

And yet, both Gotoh, Athos and Nabateans - at least for the ones that aren't wiggling weapons - still share their wisdom with people because they hope for a better future.

In Fodlan?

Seteth could never say this, after all, someone says dragon blood is the reason why the world is irrational and broken, or reveal his identity to anyone but the player's avatar because someone says Fodlan has to become a world for humanity, and how Seteth's race isn't needed in said world.

All of the knowledge and wisdom Seteth shares is distorted through the game, by playable and non playable characters, without letting him just once chime in and saying that was not he intended, or meant, or envisaged. Seteth's role as one who guides humanity is erased, to either make place for the player's avatar, or to push a world for humanity, or in general, erased because Fodlan needs to enter a new dawn.

Seteth can never say how he finds humans fascinating - it's only something we infer since he accepted to walk with humans unlike Macuil and join Rhea in her Monastery - hell, in a way, Seteth can never be a "nabatean" in Fodlan, because this verse tries its hardest to ignore its dragon people.

And while I liked this new twist of dragon people - aka not have them only muse and talk about their role as people who guide humans and share knowledge, but as people who have their own worries and everyday lives (Seteth worrying about Flayn or being involved in Manu shenanigans or being picked on by Rhea, Macuil and Indech, etc etc) - given their different roles in Fodlan, Nabateans were never given any voice about what they feel towards humans, or what they feel their role is in Fodlan.

Only Rhea is allowed to, when she's either PTSD'ing hard, or preparing to sacrifice herself when she believes the Goddess finally returned, or when she marches to her death in Trashfire.

But for Seteth, a Nabatean who has less attachment to Sothis/Billy than Rhea has? Is he also feeling like he should act as Sothis' proxy, or is he feeling like he too, as a Nabatean who walks alongside humans, wants to guide them and help them propser in non "kill every pointy ears to gain power" way?

Fodlan cannot develop Seteth under this angle (or develop Nabateans tbf) for tea time reasons, but also, because at its core, FE16 is a game where the player's self insert + their lord of choice has to unify* the continent under their "IdEaLs" -> you can't build parasocial relationships to the extent FE Fodlan intended if there's suddenly a fourth/fifth faction that is all about wisdom and passing knowledge to help people prosper, especially if this faction has to be shat on by every party whenever possible, as Nopes demonstrated, to sell pots of tea.

And so, Nabateans can only exist outside of Fodlan, not in the Supreme sense, but whenever writers can develop and write them, without worrying about having to bend backwards to pretend the continent's writing and conflict has any shades of grey.

It's frustrating because there would have been ways to insert them, or this writing aka Seteth musing about his role as one who guides humans, in Fodlan, alas, it would lampshade how empty the writing is for some other characters who are supposed to be likeable enough to sell alts or worse, it would have ran contrary to what Kusihakara tried** to cook in the FE games he directed, aka, taking responsability for your actions is dead and you should rather direct the blame to some other party (remember when Duma is somewho responsible for Berkut Berning his fiancée or for Desaix's coup ?).

*AM's unification, aka Fraud fucking away from Fodlan to let Dimitri as the sole ruler of Fodlan, is as forced as his myopia during Gronder, and another example of KT forcing a sphere in a square shaped hole to make their point stand.

**FE15 by virtue of being a remake still had to keep the "madness lurks in dragon and human hearts" complete with writing Grima as Forneus' pet project that ultimately blew in his face, and AM has shades of it, but then everything vanishes after the "parley".

[randomnameless]

Uh...

The "blessing of many children" was erased, but what is it supposed to mean?

The students of their new school blessed them, or Seteth and Manu held hands so much that Flayn ended up with dozens of half-sibs and it's after getting their "many children" that Manu accepted to become his wife?

and we're supposed to believe she's a Supreme Bullshit exclusive unit, when she clearly lusts over him regardless of Billy's existence!

[randomnameless]

Thinking about a random AG AU I had that is basically "Flayn facetanks an axe, and the Lions are more pissed and worried about her than curious or frightened about the fact that Flayn's apparently hardy enough to deflect blows with her face"

Given how Nabatean bones are, per a book, as hard as crucible steel (or more durable than anything that isn't crucible steel) I was wondering if, even in their humanoid form, Nabateans could actually resist "more" to some hits than humans.

Of course it's not translated at all in gameplay because this verse is a bootleg Jugdral copy when it comes to ludonarration, but what if it was the case?

Something like, if they concentrate enough or channel enough magic (but still not enough to transform!), Nabateans can make their "skin" as hard as it would be if they were to transform, aka when they passively get the ancient dragonskin skill.

Still, everyone is worried about Flayn in that AU, so unless she agrees to become an armored healer on a horse, she is forbidden from facetanking anything anymore.

[randomnameless]

Nabateans and earrings HC

Earrings could have been the most common jewels/trinkets Nabateans used to have, from an era where they could show their ears.

Let it only be for aesthetics or a cultural thing, “pimping” ears used to be something very common back in Zanado. Some Nabateans even went to human places to discover/share/find out what kind of new jewelry humans discovered/came up with and they’d bring some back to Zanado.

Indech left Zanado to develop his craftsman skills and some humans joined him in his workshop.

Of course, after the Nabatean Purge and the subsequent Red Canyon events, surviving Nabateans had to hide their ears, thus no earrings anymore.

Surviving Rhea couldn’t be a Nabatean in Fodlan anymore thus became Seiros the Human.

And yet, even as Seiros the Human, dropping the earring tradition meant dropping Nabatean pride, or what once was their custom - could she really accept to abandon everything that was “Nabatean” to become a human? Faced with this dilemma, Willy said something stupid like changing Fodlan so she could finally wear earrings without spending hours debating the pros and cons of such a “risky” move.

The War of Heroes ends, and Rhea has two pairs of earrings, one from a sister who wanted to gift her own pair to her youngest sibling when it would be her time to “leave to discover the human world”, and one from Willy to wear when Fodlan will have “changed”.

Of course, she never get the occasion to wear them.

Citrus finds them, and after hearing the importance of earrings, has a pair crafted for the “baby” to wear. 

Jerry pawned them during his flight.

Rhea’s earrings are lost when the monastery is sacked.

Post AG/AM, for her 1***th birthday, Flayn wears three pairs of earrings, one from her Uncle, one she bought from a Duscur craftsman and the old pair that belonged to her mother.

Both Rhea and Seteth are worried about her showing her ears, but Annette only asks if she thinks she too, would look good wearing multiple earrings, while Dimitri wonders if they won’t both get a frostbite.

[randomnameless]

I don't think Rhea's meant to be siblings with Seteth and the others. They don't seem as close to her or Sothis, and Rhea's the only one who calls her mother. Maybe Rhea is a 1st gen Nabatean while Seteth and his brothers are 2nd or 3rd generation? Descendants of Sothis, not her direct children.

It's all HC land!

Canon-wise, they're only "relatives" and we can't even rely on the titles or form of adress Nabateans use towards each other (save Flayn and Seteth!) because they either have to pretend to not be related to the various people existing in their verse, or, in Indech'n'Macuil being called Uncle, we have to remember that "Uncle" can be a generic term for a family/familial figure in a lot of cultures, and doesn't 100% mean that this person is your parent's brother.

I type brother/sister because I'm lazy lol and it's the hc I went with fueled by the "tired relative who has to look after a younger relative" Seteth has towards Rhea in both FEH and Nopes!

But you're right, Seteth doesn't use the same words to talk about Sothis than Rhea does and might not be her direct son, but maybe a grandson or something else entirely (great grandson?).

Granted, Rhea's close attachment to Sothis and her inability - that ultimately saves the world so was it that bad at the end? - to come to terms with her death is not supposed to be seen as something positive/healthy, and in the buddhist context of Fodlan (@fantasyinvader and others wrote a lot about it if you want to check!) it's something meant as negative, as opposed to Seteth and the other Nabateans who are more detached about it.

Word of God also mentionned that Rhea's attachment and obsession with Sothis was due to her being her mother, but also, the Creator, aka a divine being/entity for Nabateans themselves!

So is Rhea so gung-ho about Sothis because she's the baby of the family, because she's Sothis' last creation or because she's the one who survived Zanado and has severe depression/self worth issues and believes only the Goddess can fix everything that she lost ?

Is Seteth less obsessed with Sothis because he is older Rhea and not "the baby", or because they didn't have the direct "creator-created/mother-son" bond and is, as you suggest, more like a grandchild and not a direct son, or is it because he doesn't have the same emotional and mental burden Rhea has so he doesn't obsess over her?

Heck, we don't even know if - vibes aside - he is older than Rhea!

Ultimately I think we're supposed to see them as close-knit and "relatives" who appreciate each other, but also share the same secret as genocide survivors trying to not be killed in this world and they care about each other a lot.

If they're not "siblings" in the correct sense (not the same mom), I think that for all intents and purpose, they're supposed to be seen and thought of as "close relatives, as close as siblings".

[randomnameless]

Thinking about this Pokemon AU, Willy's Wooper actually being a paldean wooper (in fodlan, it'd be a brigid wooper?) and kid!Lycaon sleeping with it as a plushie despite Wooper being poisonous, the lad doesn't immediately die because he's immune to poison by virtue of being a half nabatean -

It reminded me of this AU, so even without pokemons involved, HC Nabateans (and half nabateans!), in humanoid form, still get the passive bonuses from the "Ancient Dragonskin" skill, aka, they're immune to status, but have to focus to get the "reduces damage" bonus.