@gotbulldog @thembulldawgs @notapitbull Since you guys are my go to for APBT education...
So I know APBT were bred for dog fighting in the past and is done much less so today in the US by responsible breeders (I’m not sure how accurate it would be to say that there are still some responsible breeders who still fight dogs?). Yet it’s still natural (and fair) to say that APBT are bred to be dog aggressive, despite the dramatic decrease in dog fighting in the US. I also know that, traditionally (and today still), APBT were bred for their gameness which is now largely tested with things like weight pull and hang times since it’s not ethical to test gameness in dog fights.
My question is: is it more accurate to say that APBT are now being bred for their tenacity/persistence/determination/perseverance/etc. and, as a result of that, happen to carry over DA from their genetic history?
I avoided the word “gameness” in that question just to separate their renowned temperaments and aggression to help clarify the question, though I realize the two are closely tied in this breed. I also don’t speak of those few, true dogmen left, as I feel in modern times, they are the exception (among responsible breeders in the US who want to preserve the true APBT without resorting to the morality of dog fighting).
So... I guess I just wonder how accurate it is to say that APBT are bred to be dog aggressive when we (responsible/ethical breeders) don’t actually test their true gameness (I don’t think having the dogs 5ft next to each other and trying to fight truly tests it, as least in my opinion). But I can’t think of anyone true to the breed would disagree that part of their fighting success was because of that attitude, which is now tested in other ways.
I just wonder because I know part of the fear with APBT is that people don’t like to hear they were specifically bred for DA (which I know they were). But how accurate is that statement today (again, only in the US and among responsible breeders)? Do you think it would help alleviate fear to say they are bred for their tenacity/etc. but, as a result, carry over their DA from their genetic history? It would not erase the fact that they are DA (which I don’t deny), but for the sake of trying to spread education and knowledge without sacrificing the awareness needed to responsibly own an APBT.
I hope that makes sense. lol It’s mostly just me thinking out loud about where the breed is going and “what if” scenarios, and I’m curious as to what y’all’s thoughts are.
It’s a bit blurry but you can see (and click!) on it over here. It also includes her genetic traits but I kept her health private. Can’t wait to see what super research and refinement brings but for now:
20.8% English Mastiff 15.7% Bullmastiff 14.4% Great Dane 13.2% Bull
Terrier 9.1% Boxer 7.1% Rottweiler 6.4% Irish Wolfhound 13.3% Supermutt - Boerboel, greyhound and staffordshire terrier
aka a typical type of Australian pig dog, prob bull arab/staghound origins
I wonder how they order the family tree? If it’s based off the percentages or ???
Overall her results are not too shocking to me, I was expecting something “bull arab or staghound” like so it’s a bonus that they’re both in there.
I was expecting bull terrier, due to her bull arab type looks and because the wisdom dna panel said boston terrier (cousin breed)
I wasn’t expecting rottie, boxer or boerboel. The rottie and boxer I won’t handwave off, they’re certainly possible and not unlikely. But the boerboel? I didn’t think they’d be that common
I was expecting koolie or kelpie, primarily due to her brains and the wisdom panel. So I find it interesting that neither are present at all. The brains and eagerness to please I could easily chalk up to the rottie, boxer and bullmastiff but I do find it curious the wisdom said kelpie and there’s nothing in the kelpie breed family present in there.
I wasn’t sure if mastiffs or wolfhound was present so was pretty neutral on it. Like if they were not in okay, but if they are in…interesting but not raising my eyebrows on it.
I wasn’t expecting catahoula (rare dog here) or pitbull (illegal dog here and rare to boot. There’s 99.9% chance she’s NOT A PITBULL)
Thanks to @handsomedogs for the sudden Guess the Breed game!
It was lots of fun reading what everyone was guessing at (and you delightful people saying gorgeous things about my gorgeous dog. i love you), here are those people who have the super big satisfaction of guessing the closest.
The Thistle Breeds Identification Wall of Honour
@aralintheobsessive said: Blue Heeler, Great Dane, Bull Arab, Irish Wolfhound, Kelpie, greyhound or whippet and smooth collie.
@crimecryptid said: She’s probably an aussie staghound. im betting on her being some bull arab, kelpie or koolie, dane mix. some wirehair there probably means she’s a wolfhound or deerhound mix too.
(oh snap good pickup on the coarse slightly wavy fur there)
birds-and-beasts said: Oof, um…Great Dane, cattle dog, greyhound, Rottweiler, huntaway… At least one of those has got to be in there
@fluffytales said: Bull arab, Australian koolie, greyhound mix? oh and dane
@kill-lana said: everyone has said it already but im almost positive shes a great dane/ australian staghound mix, with maybe some heeler in there as well? shes so slim I’m sure there’s sighthound in there somewhere. anyways shes gorgeous and deserves a thousand kisses
don’t worry mate it is now law she gets 10 kisses for every breed every morning and night
@doitlikeadog said: Great Dane/Bull Arab or Australian Cattle dog I’d guess. Maybe some Australian Staghound too
@hrovitnir said: Ah, apparently they do cross Great Danes into pig dogs in Australia - my partner guessed Great Dane/Greyhound. I would definitely believe fairly small % Greyhound (as their genes seem to be so strong!)/Great Dane/American Bulldog. Both Greyhounds and Great Danes come in that merle, but I think it’s pretty uncommon in Greyhounds.
This guy gets props for doing his/her research and giving it a solid go. Good on ya. @mothfurry gets props for being a good sport about the whole thing
@sidetongue said: Hm Dane boxer koolie maybe American staffy?? She gotta big noggin
This is particularly impressive because she got real close before I’d even started sharing it privately with fellow downunder dogblr’s. @sidetongue works in a an australian pound and sees lots of dogs like this, so got a really good eye!
sorry for anyone i missed, it’s 650+ notes at this point of posting, even tho only looking at those pre-announcement.
Please rejoice in getting at least a couple of the breeds and for those who were wrong…well you tried with your knowledge and experiences at hand yknow? and now you know about two new types of common dog in australia! You’ll be ready next time an ambiguous australian mixed breed is on guess the breed :P
I find the breed ID divides between cultures super interesting! Most australians guess bull arab and staghound but most (assumed) americans were pitbull/catahoula excepting those longtime followers who have heard me ramble about bull arabs and pigging dogs before lolol. I also find it a bit funny that many people didn’t think @pulldogs Ruby is an APBT, but so many think my aussie mutt is. (prob not the same people, just an amused observation)
(for the anti-fun anon who’s “100% sure nobody would ever guess irish wolfhound” and was 100% salty af, ur wrong mate here’s some people’s guesses from last year on an AUSTRALIAN forum, nevermind the ppl above, so chill mate it’s a game)
I keep saying Bull Arab and Staghound so for those not in the know, welcome to some very common dog types across Australia! Posting about them below the cut.
I tried to clue you in on researching Australian types n_n’ but I think saying the word “pig” or “type” would have made it too easy and the whole point is to look at the features and maybe do some country research and give ur best guess :P You all did ur best, well done. Hope it was fun!
I’m putting a bunch of pictures and descriptors under the cut of them all to look at!
Bull Arab - refers to both a) straight up mix between Bull Terrier, Greyhound and Pointer then crossed back to a bull terrier and b) Australia is a culture of lazy verbal slackers so the term is often used as a catchall for any pigging/hunting type dog that seems to be more bull terrier leaning. Other breeds get added in by people as desired for their own lines/use.
For clarity, when I say bull arab I am thinking ‘b’ - the catchall term used for any large shorthaired bull arab with other assorted breeds mixed in that was probably bred for pig hunting. Ur not going to find many in the city but the rual pounds are filled with them
A bull arab from category a)
Staghound - a greyhound crossed with anyone of the wolfhound breeds (usually irish or scottish) or deerhound. This is to combine the speed and power of the grey with the tougher skin and feet of the latter. Basically a really big longdog thing also usually used for pig hunting. Hence, me not being super surprised at irish wolfhound. Same as bull arab, they’re not always a straight up F1 cross and other breeds are added in as needed by individuals. The terms are used interchangeably.
(sorry for the pig there)
Here’s some fun, this is a straight up pigging dog that is bull arab x mastiff x boxer - pretty close to my type dog there, bit heavier but similar in the type
another similar dog - bull arab x staghound x bully (not detailed which) x boxer - that shares 5 of our 7 main breeds and looking awfully similar there
and then this here is generic pigging dogs - you’ll find most serious pigger dogs keep track of the breeds they add in but after the 4th breed it’s a mouthful so just call it a hog dog pigging dog bull arab whatever they all mean the same thing of “generic pigging dog infusions”.
Wasn’t this all a bit of fun! Guess I’ll keep right on on calling her a pigging dog, “like a bull arab”, heinz variety, big bitsa…but can’t really call her a mystery anymore cause I got an idea? nah, she’ll always be my mystery mutt for more than her dna :P
No really I was already calling her such when people asked because she’s not obviously one thing or another, so when people ask I say “pigging dog”. But on paper it’s great dane x for the size and colour identifications. It’s neat that that seems to be true tho. Just that the dane was a bit further back...
Quite possibly the cutest and most photogenic dog ever!!! #dogsofinstagram #pitbullsofinstagram #notapitbull #morningcuddles #jrbaconcheeseburger https://www.instagram.com/p/BpEvcfGAVHM/?utm_source=ig_tumblr_share&igshid=tgr03c2ij77i
Sometimes you just have to start your day with a little bit more time in bed in the morning #blessed #boxane #dogsofinstagram #rescue #notapitbull #bedhog
Dixie being extremely over dramatic about being left in the car while I ran in the store *Insert Sarah Macglaughlin song here* #boxane #notapitbull #slightlyspoiled #dogsofinstagram
