It's kinda insane to me how nobody talks about how freaked out YJH had every right to be about KDJ??
Like. Imagine you've been stuck in a loop—nothing changes if you don't change anything, you're exhausted, you're mentally falling apart but you have to appear in control because if you don't, everything falls apart. And then this random guy who's never been in any of your previous cycles shows up out of nowhere. He knows things about you that you've never told anyone, he's messing up the events in ways you can't predict, he makes you feel uncertain and anxious when you're already barely holding it together, he's playing you like a puppet, pulling strings you didn't even fucking know existed. You can't figure out what he wants, because he's not like the others who just want power or survival, he's doing something else entirely, and you can't tell if he's trying to save you or destroy you.
KDJ wasn't just some helpful stranger or a damn saint saviour. He was a variable. An unpredictable, terrifying variable that showed up and immediately started rearranging everything YJH had learned to rely on. And mind you, the guy was already on the edge, already so fragile underneath all that tough exterior bullshit. That was a "this person is either a threat or a god, and neither option is good" kinda situation for him. And people have the audacity to paint YJH as some red flag toxic abusive motherfucker for being suspicious and overly aggressive to him??? He had every damn right to be. KDJ was being very cruel at times, not maliciously, but extremely carelessly. He was so focused on his own plan that he forgot YJH was a person, not a character, and he treated him like a puzzle to solve instead of a person with his own fears and needs.
I've noticed some people only realize this on their second or third read (god forbid for this to even happen), and I do think the more you read the novel, the more you see just how much YJH was right to be fucking scared of KDJ and justified in not trusting him. I just wish more people actually thought about it a bit longer than a second.
i have many thoughts on lee gilyoung and kim dokja but i fear i may explode if i try to articulate them fully
there is something to be said in the way kdj and orv as a whole really tends to sidestep lgy. like kdj cares about lgy of course. and orv obviously wants us to care about lgy or else they would have killed him off for shock value or fridged him way earlier than they did or something. and yet he remains in the main story but still on the sidelines
i think there is something very sad to be said about how kdj very openly tends to love on/lavish attention onto sys and like consciously acknowledge that she is, in many ways, his daughter, yet doesnt really do the same for lgy. there is something very sad to be said about the way kdj tends to refer to sys individually, but only to lgy in the collective "kids." there is something very sad in the way kdj saw himself in lgy the first time he saw him on the subway and saw him both as a boy to be saved and a tool to be used and i dont think their relationship ever really recovered from this.
like he cares about them because he doesnt want to be a shitty father-figure but hes a shitty father-figure because he cares. and while sys is saved from the brunt of this to a degree because shes a character so he can just mimic how yjh treats her in worldlines where she's saved and get by on that, lgy doesnt have that kind of support. lgy is not a fictional wunderkid or pitiable, fragile little girl (however true or false that assessment of sys is). hes a snot nosed foul mouthed violent boy obsessed with bugs and death and kdj, i think, knows he ought to care for him but he doesnt know how and doesnt bother to learn and that, i believe, the not-bothering that is, is what truly incriminates him as a shitbag father. hes afraid so he doesnt try and lgy spends 90% of orv being terrified kdj secretly hates him and the worst part is hes almost right
Timelines, timeloops, and time travel, oh my! - A (mostly) comprehensive breakdown of timelines in ORV
The following is a presentation I made for a powerpoint party that included some people who have never heard of ORV before, so I’ve replaced the character names with nicknames for simplicity, so don’t mind the nicknames all over the images because I am not redrawing them. Also, all the diagrams were drawn with a mouse in MS paint, which doesn’t allow editing of things already drawn, so please cut me some slack if stuff doesn’t make as much sense lol.
Before we begin, please note that this breakdown will contain both major novel spoilers—which is expected for something like this—as well as major Side Story spoilers—but I will mark where those begin for anyone who would rather not get spoiled if you haven’t read or gotten up to date on it yet. Also, I’m not perfect, and I definitely might have forgotten something as I was going through and making this presentation because this was done entirely from memory, so forgive me if that’s the case.
Since everyone reading this already knows what ORV is about (or, I certainly hope so), I’m obviously not going to explain it the way I did when I gave this presentation. However, because this is necessary context, just know that the nicknames I used for the rest of the presentation are squid, sunfish, and cat to represent Kim Dokja, Yoo Joonghyuk, and Han Sooyoung respectively.
For reference, this is how I described ORV to them lol.
(Art by theta_draw on twitter and u/crimsonsecret7)
Part 1: The Basics
As you can see above, we have one, simple timeline that goes from 1 to 1863, representing the regressions in TWSA. How simple. How neat. Very understandable. You all know this part because it really is ORV basics, so let’s move on to:
Part 2 - The Complicated
This is what the previous timeline would actually look like if I drew them out how they actually work in canon. The very first line on the top is technically the 0th regression, and every time Yoo Joonghyuk regresses, he creates a new branching timeline/worldline from the exact same point of his life—namely, around 7 pm on the day the apocalypse begins. He has only one life where he experienced the world before the scenarios, so that specific part of the line doesn’t exist anywhere else. Of course, trying to portray the regressions in this manner would make this diagram extremely messy to draw (as well as annoying), so let’s look at this from a different perspective.
Instead, we’re going to draw this timeline from Yoo Joonghyuk’s perspective as one very long life where the end of the 1st regression leads directly into the beginning of the 2nd, the 2nd into the 3rd, and so on, all the way until his 1863rd regression just to make it easier to draw. I hope you all understand why I did this, especially since I need to branch off of it for the rest of the diagram.
Part 3: The events of ORV’s main story
ORV begins in an altered version of TWSA’s 3rd round where suddenly all these people from the “real world” have now been introduced to events that previously only existed in the novel. As a result, this is not the original 3rd round, but a copy of it, that we can call Alt-3 for now. The original 3rd round from TWSA remains unchanged, and this round doesn’t replace it completely either. For the purposes of this diagram, these alternate rounds will be drawn parallel to the original timeline.
Sometime before we meet Han Sooyoung as a character in ORV, Han Sooyoung uses [Avatar] and her avatar that contains 50% of her memories (50% cat/1863 Han Sooyoung) goes rogue, makes a deal with the Secretive Plotter, and gets sent to the 1863rd round of TWSA to fulfill their covenant and gain the right and power to create her own world.
Naturally, her presence there was not part of the original 1863rd round, so a copy of 1863 (Alt-1863) gets created as a result. None of her actions in this round have any effect on the original 1863rd round since they have diverged. This is the round where 1863 Han Sooyoung essentially hijacks the story, paints Yoo Joonghyuk as the villain, and proceeds with her plans until the 95th scenario unhindered.
Unfortunately, 1863 Han Sooyoung is not left alone for long, because our dear squid gets sent there later in Alt-3’s timeline, and he arrives in Alt-1863’s 95th scenario, spending a total of 7 days there (yes, I double-checked this). Overall, Kim Dokja isn’t there for long because of the 95th scenario involving the Apocalypse Dragon, and he thwarts 1863 Han Sooyoung’s plans.
Due to the meeting between Kim Dokja and 1863 Yoo Joonghyuk (1863), 1863 gains the [Avatar] ability and splits himself in two. One half of himself dies, while the other regresses and moves on to a round that Kim Dokja doesn’t know—1864.
What is discovered later is that the 50% of 1863 that regressed remembered that Kim Dokja said that the round he comes from definitely exists, and had enough desire to go there himself that OD got curious about that story. As a result, the worldline where he went “replaced” the 3rd turn that Secretive plotter had been observing until now.
Because of this 1863 essentially combines himself with the Yoo Joonghyuk in that round—think of it as being the 3rd turn’s body, but with the fragmented memories of half of 1863 mixed into his own. This is the reason why “3rd Yoo Joonghyuk” had memories of events that shouldn’t have happened yet while still completely believing that it is actually the 3rd turn, and why someone like Anna Croft didn’t already know either. It’s revealed that ORV’s timeline is actually the 1864th regression.
Then, Kim Dokja returns from Alt-1863 and discovers that 3 years have passed since he left due to time between worldlines passing at different speeds.
We also learn later on that the Secretive Plotter went back to the 999th regression and either was always part of that round’s tragedy or took the place of the outer god that 999 Yoo Joonghyuk made a deal with. I still decided to include it, but it overall doesn’t have too much impact on the rest of our diagram (for now) because it’s essentially its own self-contained loop.
Now, we have the infamous 51/49 split. 51% of Kim Dokja stayed behind in the train as the Oldest Dream, and 49% went back to 1864 with the rest of the group. After an amount of time I didn’t want to draw, Kim Dokja essentially created a 0th round completely disconnected from the events of TWSA (since the events of the original 0th that SP would have experienced were briefly described in the novel). In this round, Kim Dokja writes his attempt at a fix-it fanfiction, but never once considers what the characters actually want, or that his meddling will affect those wants.
I say that Kim Dokja 'created' it here because the worldline was “given the power of life from his consciousness”, so technically a better way of drawing it would have been a line for yjh's life before the scenarios splitting into the two 0s eventually connecting to the beginning of 1, but this diagram is messy enough already and this was an easier spot to put it.
Meanwhile, Kimcom have been left behind in 1864 and have a disaster of a picnic. As a result, they make the decision to do the group regression, leading to the creation of 1865. 1865, unlike other regressions, is instead specifically repeating the beginning conditions of alt-3/1864, therefore allowing “non-characters” to participate in the group regression, so long as they existed at the beginning of the scenarios.
Unfortunately, even after speedrunning the scenarios in record time, 1865 doesn’t work the way they want it to. Both 49% and 51% Kim Dokjas scatter into fragments across the universe, and kimcom returns to 1864 (1864 pt 2), now 20 years after they originally left.
By now, I’m sure this is probably exactly how I seem with all these diagrams (and trust me, this is what I looked like while presenting it irl), but don’t worry, it gets worse :)
All this worldline stuff is complicated enough as it is, but what’s that you ask? Another timeline?
Buckle up, everyone, it’s time to look at:
Part 4: What do you mean there are two 2s? ***SIDE STORY SPOILERS FROM HERE ON OUT***
One of the big things we know about TWSA is that the future Shin Yoosung aka the Disaster of Floods (DoF) appeared in Yoo Joonghyuk’s 2nd round to tell him information from the 41st round. However, she did not appear in the 1st round, which tells us that there must have been a timeline (Timeline A) where the DoF was not the fifth disaster in the 5th scenario—this theory was confirmed by the Side Story, though we don't get to see what disaster was there in her place at that point (because our dear main character had fainted, as usual).
This means that the round where Shin Yoosung was sent back by Yoo Joonghyuk was not the same 41st regression as the one that appeared in TWSA (though according to the Dumplings made by others oneshot side story, SP and the 41 kkoma have basically no memories of that round, and it was not fully written in TWSA either). However, it is likely that the information on the round had some degree of influence on Yoo Joonghyuk’s choices once he actually got to the 41st round, such as using the spear because the 41 in [Hell of Eternity] also used a spear.
So, the Shin Yoosung of timeline A’s 41st regression was turned into the DoF and sent back to the second round, therefore creating a split timeline (Timeline B), and this timeline is where TWSA takes place. Other than the brief mentions of that 41st regression by the DoF, the ORV main story contains basically no information about timeline A.
So, let’s begin with our dear old man 0, who signed a sponsor contract with 51% Kim Dokja and ended up losing the majority of memories so he could essentially “overwrite” the original TWSA 0th round and join up with the 1st regression. These memories would eventually return to 1864, and it’s unclear if SP got the same memories, since technically he would have experienced the TWSA round 0 instead—the one recorded in the 4th wall library (chapter 266). As of right now, there is no evidence that SP has any of the memories of the 0 that Kim Dokja created, so I can’t conclusively say whether he is considered to have lived through this version or not.
On the other hand, because 49% Kim Dokja and 51% Kim Dokja both fragmented at the end of 1865 (I just really didn’t want to draw all the time in the train for 51% or all the fragments bc that is exhausting), parts of them went flying everywhere to all kinds of faraway worldlines. In particular, a meteor containing the soul of 49% Kim Dokja crash-landed in the Z865123 planetary system. This will be important later.
At the end of Alt-1863, 1863 Han Sooyoung and the dokkaebi king of that worldline travelled to the 1st worldline (hereby labelled with baby squid). I am sorry that it is yellow, MS paint only has so many colours and I was struggling.
Anyway, this 1st worldline is essentially the “real world” before the apocalypse, where Kim Dokja, Yoo Sangah, Han Sooyoung, and Lee Gilyoung come from. This is the worldline where 1863 Han Sooyoung possesses her younger self and becomes tls123, fulfilling her dream of writing a story that will change someone’s life (paraphrased) and saves younger Kim Dokja in the process, therefore facilitating his ascent to the position of Oldest Dream and the continuation of the cycle. This isn’t pictured on the diagram, but the day before the apocalypse, 1863 Han Sooyoung’s consciousness fully disappears from this worldline, and those memories are sent back to 1864 Han Sooyoung.
*Important Note: There are some discrepancies in the timeline between the novel and manhwa versions here that I felt were important to mention.
In the novel: The day before the apocalypse, the final chapter of TWSA is published, Kim Dokja has the conversation with tls123 where he’s told that the epilogue will be posted at 7 pm the next day, and he attempts to recommend the novel on a forum (ORV’s prologue).
In the manhwa: The scene of Kim Dokja reading the final chapter of TWSA is located before the title card, and it’s unclear if this happens the previous day or not. Unlike the novel, his conversation with tls123 happens on the same day as the apocalypse, shortly before 7 pm (webtoon episode 1).
But what does this mean? This means that the scene where 1863 Han Sooyoung reaches out to Kim Dokja on the train platform at the end of Author’s Words before her consciousness fully disappears does not happen on the day of the apocalypse in the novel, but it’s unclear in the manhwa when the final chapter was completed and posted. However, Kim Dokja was messaging the Dokkaebi King and not 1863 Han Sooyoung in both cases, since she would have disappeared by then.
At the end of ORV, Yoo Joonghyuk leaves 1864’s worldline to distribute the copies of ORV to other worldlines, and his first named stop is the Z865123 planetary system, where he connects the struggling web novel author Lee Hakhyun to the [Cloud System] before leaving to distribute the copies elsewhere (not pictured). He drifts around for a while too, and though it’s also not pictured bc I forgot to put the other arrowhead on the line, he eventually returns to 1864 just in time for something to happen in Kim Dokja’s hospital room.
Now, we get to the official beginning of the Side Story. Through an ORV fandom event, Lee Hakhyun and multiple ORV readers get sent to the 41st regression of timeline A, therefore creating Alt-41. Most members of kimcom also end up connecting to or observing the worldline in various different ways (with the exception of Lee Hyunsung and Jung Heewon, who are somewhere else).
Lee Hakhyun is also revealed to be the reincarnation of 49% Kim Dokja, who had wished to be reborn as anyone other than Kim Dokja in his next life as he was vanishing in the train at the end of 1865.
While taking a nap in the subway for plot reasons, Lee Hakhyun ends up spending 3 months in the 40th regression of timeline A, meeting the Yoo Joonghyuk of that round and making a deal with him to be allies in the next regression before returning to Alt-41.
Due to the deal made in the 40th regression, which 41st Yoo Joonghyuk references near the beginning of the Side Story, it can now be determined that the event that created the current worldline was actually Lee Hakhyun’s arrival in the 40th regression, therefore meaning that it was actually Alt-40. The Alt-41st regression was simply created by Alt-40th Yoo Joonghyuk regressing, not the arrival of extra people in the 41st.
Now, you may notice that weird moon-like thing on the right. That’s the Dark Dimension.
The Dark Dimension (where Yoo Joonghyuk trained for 100 years in TWSA’s 2nd regression, as mentioned in the main story) is a domain where time faults exist. The time faults are essentially like simulations of different regression turns in Yoo Joonghyuk’s life, but the events of the real turn are not overwritten by any changes made in the time fault.
So, instead of creating alternate timelines, nothing changes. It’s like going back to re-clear levels of a video game, but it’s impossible for your original score to change, if that comparison makes sense. You’re basically in free play mode, but nothing you do will be saved.
And now:
Part 5: The Complete Diagram
Now, this is what I’d like to call the ‘Complete’ diagram, because it includes instances of characters travelling to/from worldlines that don’t necessarily cause any ripples, but I felt deserved to be there, such as:
The 999 gang travelling to the end of the 1864th regression
The 999 gang, SP, and OD going to a new worldline
The 999 gang and SP going to briefly help Yoo Joonghyuk while he’s floating in space all alone in ORV’s epilogue
After the hospital door is opened, it’s revealed that only 41% of Kim Dokja returned thanks to ORV, and he also goes off to Alt-41 to find the other remaining fragments so he can return to kimcom as 100% of himself so he doesn’t disappoint them again
Lee Hakhyun and 41st Yoo Joonghyuk go to the Dark Dimension for a little bit
41st Yoo Joonghyuk returns from the Dark Dimension (alongside other transcendents), but Lee Hakhyun does not return with him
Instead, Lee Hakhyun ends up in Alt-1863 during the 99th scenario and meets 1863 Han Sooyoung before she becomes tls123. Despite this fact, there are no ripples or different outcomes created as a result of his presence there (as of right now, at least)
Lee Hakhyun leaves Alt-1863 after spending about a month there, and returns to Alt-41, where 8 years have passed
And that is basically everything, up until Side Story chapter 905 (though, as of chapter 922, this still seems to be accurate for the important parts).
Congrats, you survived! I hope you don’t have a headache now, and I’m sorry if you do.
I hope that my diagrams (of questionable quality) and my little explanations made sense, even though I tried to keep certain side story events more vague since I know most people haven’t read it yet. If there’s anything I missed or got wrong, please let me know.
With any luck, this chaotic disaster of a power point was helpful to you, and all my suffering in MS paint was worth it. I would also like to thank my friends in the side story group chat for looking this over and pointing out where I could be clearer, as well as putting up with my rambling for so long, they're all amazing.
the regression stigma seems like a curse for most of the story, but it actually was originally a promise. a promise that both yoo joonghyuk and kim dokja will learn and grow. a promise that they will survive, a promise that they will meet. that meeting isnt a permanent one, it cant be a permanent one given that kim dokja is the oldest dream, but its a promised meeting regardless. the fact that it manifests as a ring on yjh's hand, specifically...
from the beginning, it was a promise: a promise they would meet. but what yoo joonghyuk wanted wasnt just to meet his sponsor. he wanted his sponsor to be beside him with his companions, and believed he was stuck behind that wall. and 1865yjh has the same goal. but while 0yjh was naive and didnt understand what being the oldest dream means, 1865 wishes to pluck a star from the sky with complete intention.
so, he always wanted to bring stars down from the sky. but when he forgot 0, he believed his motive was violence, to kill them. but in fact, what he wanted wasnt for all constellations to die, he wanted a singular star to be brought to earth. no wonder the yjh who knows everything has stargazing lvl 10 as his primary skill, its truly a summary of what hes always been trying to do
ORV gives you a main character who is so detached and suicidal and never gets better
But more importantly it gives you all the people who would tear apart reality itself for one more chance to be with him
As someone who has struggled with depersonalisation and derealization and suicidal ideation for pretty much my entire life this book, even when deeply painful, is the most uplifting and convincing DO NOT KILL YOURSELF treatise I have ever read
Because it's easy to convince yourself that no one will miss you
That no one actually cares about you, because how could they? You're a monster
That you only have worth in what you can give
But then you see Kim Dokja who believes about himself all the worst things you have thought about yourself and who has arguably done worst things then you could ever do...and you see how he doesn't see the love and care and devotion that is right in front of his face
You are begging him to stop and see it
To recognise that he doesn't have to do everything alone
That he is loved so so deeply
And maybe, just maybe you can get yourself to open your eyes. Or just believe that maybe you're just as blind as Kim Dokja.
I know some people will see this book as despairing or that the message is that you can never actually cross that divide. But for me it's a push to say you can cross it.
That there are people in this world waiting for you to extend your hand and they will hold you close and never let you go
much as i like a good "Kim Dokja needs therapy" take (hell yeah he needs therapy, his therapist and his therapist's therapist and his therapist's therapist's supervisor will have a lot to say about his therapy in their therapy), it's interesting that the final monster of ORV, in however an understated way, is actually whatever form of society South Korea has.
after all, KDJ's obvious CPTSD and dissociative disorders aren't innate to his psyche; nor was he victimized by a freak meeting with a serial killer or lost his parents in a tragic accident. his, as he put it, is a vulgar and common tragedy, something that probably happened to hundreds if nor thousands of people around him: his mother was pressured (by the threat of social ostracism and probably poverty) into staying with an abusive drunk, his father was enabled and implicitly encouraged to be a destructive, abusive pater familias full speed on the way to family annihilator; not a single authority figure through KDJ's life stepped in to protect him from paparazzi or from bullies or from rumors or from neglectful caretakers, no mental health services were offered or provided, no support extended, and compared to this the workplace exploitation was almost matter of fact, although it falls into the same pattern. and there's nothing to say that KDJ is particularly unlucky, or unique, or singulary. it just a thing that happens: violence rolls down and down and down the hierarchy, and somebody is always left on the bottom.
and so it's very interesting to me to think about how the world looks after the scenarios. presumably post-finale the main powerhouses standing are South Korea (because the KimCom protected a lot of it and freely shared their information and access to infrastructure with other incarnations), China and India (one top incarnation each respectively, and enough power to show up as allies in the final showdown). USA went under, we don't know what went down with EU, and personally i'm going to headcanon that Russia has finally splintered into little individual countries and they're still figuring it out. it's a completely new landscape, political and sociocultural.
and South Korea was mostly shaped, in the intervening years, by:
Lee Sookyung and her ex-con women group (i presume most of them were behind bars for the same reason she was, 'too much' self-defence after prolonged family abuse);
Han 'Preventive Murder' Sooyung, who in canon went after human traffickers and such as a form of stress relief;
Jung "Sword Justice" Heewon, who had very tangible reasons to take sexual violence very seriously;
and Yoo "Iron Fist in the Velvet Glove" Sangah, who apparently added to the sentiment above some serious political acumen.
so it's going to be a very, very different South Korea that KDJ will wake up in, one hopes. and maybe, just maybe, it'll do him a lot of good.
I fucking love watching the Omniscient Reader Viewpoint idiots experience the same thing from wildly different perspectives. (Soooo Normal About Each Other :D)
Kim Dokja: I hope he's doing alright. I know he can do this. But I can't ask him directly. He doesn't want to talk to me.
Yu Junghyeok: Fuck off for manipulating me. Again. You can just ask me you paranoid freak.
Yu Junghyeok : Wait! WAIT! Goddamnit. I didn't mean literally! Get back here!
Kim Dokja: Okay. Everything's resolved. He and Biyu are safe. I'm going to go because that's what he asked for.
Kim Dokja: He's looking for me? Why? He told me to get lost!
Yu Junghyeok: Everyone knows that I'm worried about you but you, you idiot.
Kim Dokja: Oh. Fuck. He is. Um...I need to check my messages.
Yu Junghyeok: Why don't you answer your texts? Hello? I swear to god I am going to kill you if you don't answer me right now (affectionate). I am coming to you because I need to know you're okay you stupid bastard (affectionate).
What I love the most about this? Is that I don't think Yu Junghyeok has spoke to him 39 times in 48 hours in their entire relationship. But like...that's almost once an hour. Like...babygirl...we know but does he? Get therapy. There has to be one therapist left alive in all the universes.
