gosh WHAT a banger chapter..this one really hit me directly in the “complicated relationship with my actual real life parents” feels :’) fr tho i was kind of surprised how cathartic it ended up being to play out (i also cried when aphrodite said that they all love you haha) like i honestly don’t know if ive ever actually understood what ppl mean by “comfort media” until i played this game. truly a warm hug in story form. i didn’t visit Hypnos and unlock the full dream sequence this run, so i’m real excited to see that next time through >:)
Well I'm glad it was cathartic; I definitely understand the complicated relationships with parents thing. It's one of the major reasons why I wanted to make such a range of attitudes available to PCs around Demeter (and eventually, perhaps even their father).
bro when i tell you i am still thinking about this game in quiet moments....tbh i play ifs for romance nearly to the exclusion of all else, it's just what i look for when i'm in that mood! and while other games have def ended up getting me interested for other reasons as i follow, this is the first one that pretty much right off the bat activated my Gamer Brain and i was like Oh I'm playing a video game and i have a completely different mindset and priorities than i expected going in. which, idk, just kind of surprising in a fun way i think! :) oh also, i wanted to say i CANNOT express enough how much i appreciate your approach of 'mc is Just Some Guy'. it really brought into focus how much player-centered gameplay kind of rubs me the wrong way, in pretty much any context! it makes everything seem so much more artificial and shallow. big thoughts about pathologic, if you're at all familiar lol. anyways bye
This is, like, everything to me thank you 😭 That kind of gamey energy (and the Some Guy thing haha) is exactly what I was trying to capture and I'm glad to hear it's doing that for you 😊
I feel you on how long it takes to develop a new blorbo haha, it's hard to solidify it and I usually just wind up making multiple too! I will say, I think having your Signal maxed out is going to be a really fun way to play even if you don't side with the cult! (You might have caught this if you played a Devotee during Waveform, but Yasmin's "questline" is going to be very special for Devotees 😉)
hello, i hope you're doing well! i reread the demo and its even better than i remembered...it makes me want 2 know everything about the world and the characters! much love <3
ahh thank you! 🙏💜 And I swear, some day..... you will. I'm probably one or two scenes away from being able to update the game with the second half of chapter 2, which unfortunately doesn't mean much from a timeframe perspective because progress is so sporadic but it DOES mean I'm still making progress!
The main challenge right now (not that you asked but some folks might be curious lol) is that the back end of chapter 2 is exposition-heavy, which means I need to make very very sure that each potential path touches on the most important things in its own way while still feeling distinct and like there are pros and cons to each choice and at least one or two chances to change your mind. I'm hoping I'll be able to find a bit more momentum in chapter 3 and 4 because each path is going to be a lot more self-contained which means I can just push through them without doing so much gosh dang cross-referencing.
ok all of first screaming and crying over the new update etc etc. all of SECOND quick lore question(s) about blood pacts! (forgive me if there is a codex entry i overlooked just point me that way and i will head on over lol) how are they perceived culturally? i can’t quite tell from the flavor text when clem makes a deal with you if it’s intended to come off as “fairly standard/commonplace practice, if a little unusual in the specific context” vs “immediately very strange/extreme”? basically, How Weird is it supposed to be that clem offers that to you? is there any circumstance where it’s normal/expected to see them used? are all blood pacts magically binding? are there differences in cultural perception in the north vs south? upper class vs lower class? thanks!
the handshake is pretty universal; i actually had a conversation planned with Clem while you walked to the isolation district, but i had to cut it for pacing (and i plan to have a similar conversation later instead now) so there isn't really any indication in game yet, aside from the hunter's reaction when Clem offers it.
in the codex entry for magic, blood magic is briefly touched on and how in certain instances it's "allowed," like healing magic. the handshake is similar, it's just treated like signing a contract, and like you see here in this conversation most people don't even consider it to be blood magic, it's become so disassociated with it. it's also not really called a bloodpact in game - that's just the easiest thing for me to call it but that name makes it sound more serious than it is.
it works more like a pinky promise than a "pact"; you can't intentionally break your side of the deal, and neither can Clementine. if you do, you can be injured/will lose something equivalent to the value of the thing you promised. this kind of magic is very loosey goosey; it very much is connected to the person's intentions and whether or not they are genuine. if something did happen to Clementine despite the hunter's best efforts, they wouldn't necessarily be punished to the fullest extent possible if they were truly trying everything in their power to protect them.
when Clem asks the hunter to shake on it in that way, they're basically ensuring that the hunter will not lie or turn on them, because now if they do there is the potential for the hunter to be punished as well. and vice versa, the hunter can assure that Clementine won't try to give them the slip without paying them again, so it's beneficial on both sides. it's not exactly uncommon, but it can be considered a little extreme or offputting in certain situations. it does actually make sense with Clem and the hunter - considering Clem just admitted to having never planned to pay them for their original deal, and the fact that they don't really know each other well, a handshake like that is an easy way to protect yourself when making deals with strangers.
and this is definitely a "working class" kind of gesture. rich people are too evil to ever be able to successfully fulfill a bloodpact. lmfao. it's definitely seen as "gross," demeaning, and insulting in higher class circles; and i would say far more malicious, too (as in if someone like Duncan wanted to make a bloodpact with you, it would almost definitely be a way for him to trap you in some kind of Situation) whereas a shake between two people just trying to get by together feels far more sincere and is seen more as just covering all your bases than trying to take advantage of someone.
however, all of that to say: when it comes to the trade with Duncan, the hunter doesn't understand what's happening, nor do they immediately get angry or suspicious of Clem afterwards, because what happened in the courtyard... let's just say a handshake shouldn't be able to compel the hunter in that way.
my own subconscious is haunting me bc i can’t play the update until the weekend i had a dream i was trying to convince clem to help me with something(?) and they kept saying they would but then ghosting 😭😭😭
not clem ghosting you LOL…. honestly in character tho 😭
also i’ll be doing my best to be patient and not answer any outright spoilery asks for now, at least for a few days. anything that i do answer that is about the update at this point, even if it’s vague, i’ll still tag as “tnp spoilers” too so you can avoid it.
hey!! i know you said the stuff about vel rot will be explored further along in the game, so feel free to ignore if im just asking for spoilers lol, but i just replayed the demo and im SO curious. from the flashback, and noel mentioning how hunters can be weird about it, i take it it’s not widely/openly talked about even among hunter circles? is that more because its, like, a delicate/sensitive subject what with the dying and all, or is there shame around it bc you had to mess up and leave the vel open to cause it? also, is this a very rare thing to happen, or just Not Talked About? noel knew you were sick immediately — is that because you were really far along, or is it detectable before it actually starts to ‘rot’ you? also, is there no way to cut yourself off completely from the vel as a general failsafe/hard reset, or is the process more of an external ‘i am opening/closing the vel in this specific area but am always left Open in general due to hunter shenanigans’? if you could pinpoint the specific time/location you left it open, would you be able to go back and fix it, or is it just about the length of time youve been open and the specifics don’t matter?
no worries!
so, to start, vel rot is something that can be dormant for years before it suddenly triggers and manifests, or it can be something that happens over a matter of days. it's varied and there's no order to it, it just happens however which way it decides to happen.
for the hunter in the flashback, it was a case of it being dormant for many years; as for the MC, it's not something i have set in stone - i suppose it can be up to you. it could have been Keld, or it could have been another job and it was just that Keld triggered it, and then the fight with the wraith exacerbated it. the Rot is not detectable until it's been "triggered."
and you're right, it's not really talked about, there is a lot of shame around the Rot because of the idea that it is the hunter's fault. it's also a topic that the Order... not necessarily forbids, but definitely doesn't like it being talked about, which leads to more confusion/uncertainty around it all.
for our hunter specifically, the few other hunters at the stronghold between Keld and the start of the game probably DID sense something was wrong. however, there's a kind of unspoken pact that would keep any of them from saying something. most hunters are going to want to go out in a blaze of glory... there are a lot of hunters that had the rot but never let it be known because they got themselves killed first. i imagine the other hunters at the stronghold had the feeling that you were going to take this job, and you were going to let it kill you, before the rot could fully take hold.
so it's not necessarily rare... but it IS rare to see it get to the extent it did for the hunter in the flashback.
and this kind of "pact" mentality is a little different in the north and the south, though it wasn't always - we'll explore the differences in hunter culture later on in the game.
now i'm going to use this little drawing again to show exactly what's happening:
i explained before that magic exists in the living realm and that there are non-hunter mages. sometimes i like to explain it as "the force" and you can see that all humans have a connection to the force/magic in the living realm. i like to imagine it as little invisible tendrils that connect to the person's chest/soul/spirit/heart & are like a muscle that can be exercised and strengthened. the Vel stops the "tendrils" of non-hunters from expanding beyond the living realm, as well as containing the living realm itself.
with hunters, their "tendrils" expand beyond the vel, and even if the vel is closed, they're still connected - think like the roots of a tree. the Vel essentially functions as an anchor.
when a hunter opens the Vel, imagine something like when popeye eats spinach (lol).... the tendrils lighting up and channeling strength and/or magic into the hunter. the Vel works almost like a sieve here, to make sure that whatever is being pulled from the other side doesn't completely overwhelm the hunter.
i'll put this next part under a break (because it's getting long) and also because this is kinda spoiler territory so read at your own risk :-)
Noel's explanation isn't exactly completely correct, but the reality is that hunters don't really understand what the rot is, and the Order itself pushes the idea that the fault is with the hunter. they want you to believe it's the hunter, not the Vel - not the practice itself that is the problem...
the supposed understanding is that when you close the Vel, it "cleanses" the hunter's "tendrils" from whatever they had pulled in from the other side. if you don't do it properly, it's your fault for not cleansing yourself & that's how you get the rot. however, this is simply just. Not True. the reason that hunters' eyes change color like they do is because their "tendrils" and their physical bodies are being affected by the Vel constantly. whenever you pull something from the other side, it doesn't just go away when you close the Vel. there is always Something swirling around within a hunter that shouldn't be there. you are always connected to the Vel, and closing it doesn't actually change that fact. that's why hunters can sense each other and other creatures (like the wraith), because they can sense each other through the Vel.
vel rot happens typically because the Vel itself just sucks - i explained... somewhere... that when the gods made the Vel it was a half-assed effort, mainly because they wanted to ensure their ability to pass through the other realms wouldn't be affected. there are a couple of creatures, alongside the gods, that can pass through - dragons & giants being two main ones that no longer exist, and another one that we will see in game and i don't want to spoil just yet :-)
so it's less to do with the hunter not closing the Vel properly (though this CAN be a part of it) and just that the Vel doesn't function properly and things that shouldn't get through... get through.
think of it like an invasive species, or i guess the easiest comparison would be if you were to suddenly go to a new world where you can still breathe the air, and there's water and life there, so you could survive... but there's always the risk of alien diseases and viruses, which you have no immunity against. imagine every time the hunter opens the Vel they're breathing that air or drinking that water, which is technically safe, but there's also always going to be an incredible risk that you could catch an alien illness.
that's essentially what is happening but... in an abstract way? hahaha. it's not something i've super agonized over or bothered to try and explain completely in a "scientific" way, i guess. i enjoy the vagueness and lack of understanding around the Rot and the Vel in general, and it's something that always bothers me in horror/fantasy/sci-fi media when a concept is over-explained or that the creator feels the need to explain at all. i enjoy open endings and vague explanations and the idea that we just won't ever really understand what happened here.... but it was something awful.
as for some of your suggestions on how to fix it... you're onto something, is all i will say...
lets goooo not enough cyoa ass bullshit deaths in modern if imo. are you planning on having a way to loop back in once youve followed a dead end? do you just to load from a previous save, or are you gonna do checkpointing or sth like that?
EYYYYY I love killing the player off it's so funny
It was kind of a hard choice to make? I could send them back a passage, but giving somebody two options and then just forcing them to pick one feels weird. And people can always save and load if they want to go back to a previous passage after succeeding at a roll.
Ultimately I decided to just send them back to the beginning of the encounter, ie. right before the fighting starts. Gives the player access to every option, so they can go through the fight in a completely different way if they choose.
oh hey that ask kind of tangentially reminded me! if you’ve given it any thought, i was wondering what prosthetics and other mobility aids look like in the world of the game! are there any magically powered ones, and things like that? thanks, hope you’re having a good day!
hi :-)
i've thought about it a bit; funnily enough the lift in blackwater wasn't actually something i had originally planned for the city, until i started writing the first route in ch1 with Merry, going down to the docks, and realized that... it was all completely inaccessible. and now that's like a staple feature of the city, and i can't imagine the setting without that lift.
i do have a character that we'll meet in ch4 that has a prosthetic arm, and i'm still figuring out how i want it to work. i've talked a bit about how a lot of the medicine in tnp is a mix of magic, alchemy, and science, and i imagine mobility aids would be the same.
enchantments haven't been brought up in the game yet but we'll see our first one in the next update (and it's something i need to edit into the prologue....lol) but because of the flexibility with magic and alchemy, i think prosthetics would be super customizable and vary a lot depending on the person. i could see wood, bone, and metal all being used, with more practical or more aesthetic options available. the man we'll meet in ch4 is a fighter, so his actually works a lot like the bracer an alchemist hunter would have, and is made of leather and metal. he has functioning joints that are both mechanical and magical. with prosthetics (or any aid really that relies on magic) there would be some kind of enchanted "core" somewhere so that the user wouldn't have to drain their own magic to power it, and they would just have to go in to get it reinforced every now and then. typically enchantments are tied to runes or precious stones (like the stone Noel has in xir staff, Lea's tattooed runes or the hunter's runes on their bracers)
runes are the "weaker" option, though, and usually mean the enchantment is also tied to the person that set it (we'll see this in the next update) so for prosthetics it would definitely require a core, where the magic can be "stored", to avoid hurting the enchanter or the user. also the type of magic used in the core can affect the aid - air magic for wheelchairs that will allow them to hover and move around, earth magic in a cane to give it a "plant-like" look and also the ability to grow and adjust to the user, water and fire magic for cooling or heating braces to help with pain, etc.
i'm very against the idea of "magic'ing" disabilities away as i mentioned before, but the magic in tnp is definitely used to make life easier for those with disabilities, and provides more options and more accessibility than we have in real life.
like with HRT being available in the alchemist shop, i think enchanted cores would be something sold pretty much in every city all over the world; i think the trouble would come in the first hurdle of purchasing a core, and then the upkeep of the core. trained magic users could do it themselves, but most people are not trained or comfortable performing enchantments, and others don't have the money to pay for someone else to do it. in which case there are more mechanical options available, that rely more on alchemy to create the mechanism than magic. these would be less "aesthetically" pleasing aids and they would probably be slightly weaker, and it would limit what materials could be used, but would still give the user a lot of function without having to worry about a core.
otherwise, i think a lot of it would look like how it is in real life. there are glasses, and they would use little ear trumpets for hearing aids (and sign language is widely taught), there would be manual wheelchairs as well as non-magic canes/walkers/crutches etc.
i think overall people would get very creative with this kind of thing if they had access to magic and alchemy, and i think we would see very inventive and interesting looking aids and prosthetics all around the world.
