Just a Post (Kind of a Rant) about TMNT Fandom(s) and (Certain) Crossovers (also just kind of me talking more generally about TMNT?)
Okay, so this post was inspired by some other posts and reblogs I have seen (and just my own experiences in the TMNT fandom so far, and reading/looking/watching/etc. TMNT crossovers, esp. Rise x 2012 ones, and/or Rise x Whatever Version(s)). So of those posts I was going to reblog and/or link here, but I literally can’t find them right now, so for now, I am not going to. I might still link some stuff in this post (might be those specific posts if I can find them again and/or it might be other posts and stuff), I might not, I might /link/reblog them at a later date instead.
Anyways, I am making this post, because I am a huge TMNT fan, and I LOVE both Rise and 2012 (and many other versions as well! Like IDW and 2003 just to name a couple); they are a couple of my favorites, and I just want to see both versions portrayed well, and to see good crossovers between the 2 (and/or other versions), where both series are respected, and not bashed, mischaracterized(and/or demonized, infantized(?), and/or made fun of/mocked) a lot, nerfed to hell (I am not necessarily against *some* “nerfing, but it has to be used well, in modicum, and/or in a way that makes sense. I also don’t like it when only one of the series/versions/etc. is nerfed, and not the other. Not the like either being nerfed, but if they were being both nerfed, I would be *a bit* more okay with it), or/& one and/or one(s) is put on a major pedestal (I do this with series and/or stuff too though, so once again I don’t necessarily have an issue with people doing this, my issue, is when another version is put down while doing this). And/or etc.
I have genuinely become sick of seeing this.
More under the cut/”Read More”, because this gets LONG, and (maybe even more) rant-y.
I love Rise, I really, really do. It might have taken me awhile to get into and really love it, as an older fan, who got into it through 2012 and the OG TMNT live action movies, and then got into other TMNT stuff later on, like 03, IDW, 2007, etc. (still getting into stuff like Mirage and 87 and other comics currently), because I found some of the changes--to be kind of weird. However, I have grown to really like it too, and I have also read and/or watched stuff that actually explained how some of the changes weren’t as major as I thought. For example, Raph and Leo, are still them at their core (like, I have seen about both of them about this, but the stuff I have seen about Rise Leo and 2012 Leo and/or previous versions were really eye-opening to me; esp. as a major Leo fan), despite the changes. They are still Raph and Leo. If that makes sense.
It is just, as I have seen some other people say (I will try to find these posts and/or whatever and link and/or reblog them) how they would be if one was given the role as the oldest (Raph), and such, had to calm down more, and the other was given a role of a younger sibling (specifically, a middle child) (Leo), and thus, was given the freedom he rarely got to have, and always wanted (for example, 2012 Leo defin. wanted it). It is still them, just placed in slightly different positions, and we are shown, how they/these characters would/might be like in these new(-ish) roles/positions. At their core though, they both still share many characteristics of their previous versions, but their new(-ish) roles causes some dynamic changes (Leo and Raph’s dynamic is still great, like most other version, but now there is a slight twist to it), and certain core traits/traits of these characters from previous versions are either more amplified and/or get explored more and/or shown in (sometimes) different ways, more tampered down, or something in-between.
So yeah; once I realized this and/or was helped to realize this (since I have always really loved Leo and Raph and their dynamic; love Donnie and Mikey too though and their dynamic with each other and Leo and/or Raph), I enjoyed Rise more, and now, like 2012, and some other versions; I also love a lot. It has also been fun to see new, but also paying homage and/or respect on other characters and relationships/dynamics! Like, I have always been interested in Leo and Donnie’s’ dynamic, and wish it was explored more, and Rise certainly delivered on that for example! And so on (might add more to this later).
*Cough cough*; got a little off-topic there kinda. But the main point I was trying to get at, while I was admittedly somewhat put off at first by all the changes as an older fan (and it didn’t help that Rise came out so quickly after 2012 ended. That might have caused some of the older fans to be sour towards it; esp. with some of the changes, because it might been a bit “too much/too many changes, too soon”. So that is one of the reasons that caused Rise to unfortunately not be as well-received as it could have been imo. Like, I love TMNT a lot; I always want more good TMNT stuff in my life, but I do think it might have been prudent and better for it if Rise released a bit later), and as a major Leo fan and etc., etc., I grew to love it very much too. And I do understand why Rise fans might have been upset or might still be upset at how some older TMNT fans treated Rise at first and/or still are; esp. with Rise’s uncertain status (here is to hoping for another season and/or movie); however, I do not think that means Rise fans (this is coming from a Rise fan as well, and I don’t mean all Rise fans when I say this ofc) should be doing the kind of stuff (negative stuff) they are doing to the previous versions that they are (esp. 2012 for some reason?). Like for example, crossover type things/stuff.
Like seriously; good thing someone like me, who is an older/longtime TMNT fan myself loves Rise so much, and is so not easily turned away from stuff I love and enjoy (I am basically ride or die with stuff I love most of the time), because the way 2012 and previous versions have been treated lately by some Rise fans and/or in the fandom(s) might drive me away from the fandom(s) and/or Rise. Like I said, that won’t happen; I love Rise, and love so much of the fandom, but at the same time, I am starting to get very much sick of how some of the Rise fandom is treating 2012 and/or previous versions.
Like, it has come the point that even stuff (fics and so on) that say they aren’t bashing 2012 (I am using 2012 here, because it is 2012 a lot) and/or that they love 2012 honestly seem quite bash-y to me anyway.
2012 will seem majorly mischaracterized (esp. Leo and Raph. But the others too also don’t escape this treatment), and some of the time and/or some of it is sometimes just growing pains; them getting used to writing the character better. And that is something most people can relate with, so I give more leeway with that.
Or maybe they just need to refresh their memory on the/a version, or research it more, or finish the version, or etc., and I can understand and give leeway to that; I don’t expect people and/or stuff to be perfect or anything, ofc. My issue is, if they don’t get better at them, or just get worse, or they seem to be making them (kinda) ;OOC, for bashing reasons.
Or nerfing reasons, or to put Rise on a pedestal, and basically be like: “Rise is the better family”, “2012 is abusive and/or terrible”, “Rise are more powerful”, “Rise are better fighters and more skilled”, “let’s undersell/downplay 2012 version and it’s main cast, cast of characters, heroes, villains, etc.”, “let’s not undersell/downplay the Rise version and it’s main cast, cast of characters, heroes, villains, etc. Sometimes lets even oversell/overplay them” (I know this and some other stuff I mentioned are more opinion-based and/or subjective, which I know, and is fine and I get that. We all have different opinions. In this case though, I mainly have a problem with it if is overdone, &/or if one side/version so obviously being favored so much over the other), “Rise has no issues, while 2012 does”, “Rise is better”, “2012 is worse”, etc. Which is just pretty maddening and annoying ngl.
2012 and other versions (and I am talking about the cast in general for both), have been through and faced so much, and they, like Rise, have both their strengths and weaknesses, and own things they can bring to the table in battle, as people, etc. But nope, lets just ignore all that, to put Rise on a pedestal and act like they would just stomp all versions in a fight, writing wise, character wise, etc. When that is just no true (imo). Don’t get me wrong, Rise is a great series; I want more of it, but other versions are also great. And I do not like the disrespect of the previous versions going on here, and the specific kind of pedestal-placing Rise is being put on.
Like seriously, do you know hard it has gotten to find good Rise x 2012 and/or Rise x Whatever Version type crossover content?
It has become so hard.
I just have to read/look at/watch/listen to/etc. crossovers and just hope, both versions are treated well and with respect, and it isn’t a bashing fic, most Mikey-centric 2012 x Rise fics and stuff (if ur a 2012 fan, u will know what I am talking about here), that there is little to no nerfing, that both/all versions get some spotlight and awesome moments, and/or etc.
Like, even some of the supposedly good crossovers that people like, where there are supposedly no bashing, and people are actually loving how 2012 are characterized and think they are “on-point”.
(Which, honestly, just kind of makes me scratch my head, because with some of these crossovers, I just don’t see it. Like, I have read some really good 2012/2012-centric stuff which actually had characterization that was point; not like some of these fics and/or crossover fics where people say they are. Heck, even in comparison to some other 2012 x Rise crossovers which I actually love, and either have no or very, very minor problems with, I would say the characterization of the 2012 crew is better in those. This is all just my opinion though; I know other people have their own personal opinions and interpretations. And I am not even calling those crossovers, fics, and/or etc., bad; I just personally find some issue with them).
I am just like, but 2012 is getting pretty mischaracterized (sometimes very mischaracterized) here though (and in turn, so is Rise sometimes. Because a lot of the time, I see mischaracterization of 2012 and/or another version, Rise also gets mischaracterized too. Which, as a Rise fan, 2012 fan, general TMNT fan, I ofc don’t like very much. I love when people are as in-character as they can be), and/or nerfed, and/or I am seeing a “let’s highlight 2012′s issues; even though some of those issues were resolved, because characters develop, or don’t exist really in the first place”, and/or either “barely highlight Rise’s issues, act like they have none, basically show them as having none, or show so much later, that it sometimes kind of feels like, too little, too late”
(I don’t have an issue with versions working through their issues and stuff and/or teaching other versions stuff, as long as it makes sense, and isn’t being done in unequal, unfair, (very) biased way. I find this kind of stuff very interesting when done well. So much potential for stuff. Or like, imagine, all the versions getting therapy, but like, it is done in an equal way between the versions, if that makes sense, idk),
and/or “I am kinda getting some vibes that remind of those Mikey-centric crossover stuff (I am not saying all of them, but God is it a lot of them)”, “and/or etc.”
So it just kind of confuses me some. But at the same time; I can understand (or at least somewhat) understand why people like and/or love them. And while I say it confuses me; I do think I get why some people may think that, or at least I try to.
Like, the crossovers I am talking about here aren’t those weird Mikey-centric, 2012 fam are abusive and awful, and/or type crossovers here. Like, as someone who is a fan and loves the 2012 version; I don’t get why people like them, but I do some people do, for whatever reason. However, at least with stuff like this and/or similar stuff and/or some crossovers bashing on 2012/previous versions, I know more what I am getting into I guess, or I know soon enough? There are some crossovers that take longer for that to happen; to show their “true colors” so to speak, and crossovers where I almost feel tricked? That is probably too harsh of a word, but idk a better way to explain it. Maybe a better way to describe it, is that I don’t know what I am getting into as much??
Like a crossover will literally say no bashing/no 2012 bashing, and/or that they love 2012 (though sometimes when they say these things, their other tags, descriptions, posts, etc., will say a different story imo, but I digress. Maybe they mean that; heck, they probably do, but from an outside POV, it doesn’t always feel that way), and/or just seems like it will be a good, non-bashing crossover, but then as you go on/get into it more, you realize that nevermind it is, or at least kind of is, and/or the issues are just piling up, so even if I might really want to enjoy it,
(like there is this one 2012 x Rise crossover fic that so many people seem to be enjoying; people have made so much fanart of it, memes, etc., and it is already really long, and it is looking to be super long; chapter and word wise once done, so I would be fed on a really long, interesting premise, 2012 x Rise crossover fic for a long time. But the problem is, due to some of the reasons I listed in this post; I just can’t enjoy it. I really want to; I really do, but I am having so much trouble doing so, and that makes me sad. And that happens to other crossovers too. Other ones that have so much promise and potential, and/or say there isn’t any bashing and that they 2012 too (and/or that other version. So they love both Rise and 2012 and/or that other version)
and/or so many people seem to love it; even 2012 and/or previous versions fans and/or ones that don’t hate 2012 and/or previous versions, so I also really want to enjoy and love it. Sometimes, maybe even a lot of the time, there is stuff I do really like/love about it, but in the end the stuff that makes it unenjoyable usually gets to be too much (not always though), and I have to stop. Sometimes it takes longer though to happen, or shorter, or maybe, hopefully it doesn’t happen at all, and it gets genuinely better and even more enjoyable. But a fair amount of times, that last thing doesn’t end happening to me (at least not for me), and that makes me sad.
I just want more good (great even!) 2012 x Rise crossovers (I love these crossovers so much; when I can actually find an amazing one) and/or Rise x TMNT Version, or maybe even more than 2 versions crossover with Rise; is that too much ask!?
(Here is to hoping that the crossovers and/or 2012 x Rise crossovers that I do actually love, don’t go the way of some current crossovers that I don’t like very much and/or am starting to dislike, are going. And/or future crossovers also don’t do the kind of stuff I mentioned I disliked here as well, and are just, great instead, lol. Seriously though, there are some crossover(s) worry might start to become like I mentioned; esp., as of right now at least, the nerfing issue(s), for example(s).)
Is it too much to ask for us all (different versions and/or multiple versions lovers and fans and/or general TMNT fans) to be more respectful of each other and the other versions?!
Like seriously, we may not all agree on stuff, but we can still all agree on being TMNT Fans at least.
As as this post said (which I love the art and it so much. It is great. Please check out that creator by the way. They and their friend make a lot of good TMNT art, fics, comics(-ish), and stuff!):
https://at.tumblr.com/bluepeachstudios/all-that-we-are-is-made-of-those-that-came-before/27beod1jc2mf
"All that we are is made of those that came before us."
All current versions of TMNT and its character are built on what has come before. You don’t have to like the previous versions (even though I personally think so many versions are great), but at least try to treat them with respect or at least try not to needlessly bash it/them? You most likely wouldn’t have the version you love and/or the version of the character you love without that previous version. Also, almost ever version has it’s fans too.
Again, not saying you can’t dislike stuff, but can’t we all just be a little nicer (and I actually want more good 2012 again, previous versions stuff, crossover stuff, etc. Like how we are getting good Rise stuff. Instead of so much negativity and bashing. *Sheesh*!) to each other? Please??
Alright, kind of rant and really long post over. Might add some stuff to this later, like links and stuff. Maybe in the post itself, maybe in a reblog of it, but for now I am done with this post.
I say this post, because there might be some more posts and/or reblogs like this. And/or typing this; along with some other posts and/or reblogs I have seen, it kind of got me wanting to create my own post with good 2012 x Rise, Rise x ?, maybe even non-Rise Crossovers (that might be a separate post and/or reblog type thing though), and/or etc., like I have seen other creators do. It might take awhile for me to post though, because it is probably going to be long, thorough, and/or have sections, descriptions, the whole she-bang! This is only if I actually do it though; don’t hold me to it (and if I do end up doing it, it might not be for awhile, for various reasons, like I said) though.
Alright, done for now. I am going to actually tag the proper tags for this, because this took me awhile to do, and I also think people should see this. However, I am also going to be put discourse and rant tags as well, so for anyone who doesn’t want to see that type of stuff, just block that tag/those tags.
I am also put a “Read More” on this too, because it got long and in case people don’t want to read this type of post.
(Man, this took me so long to write/do)
See all you guys later!