#romans 1

[in-gods-service]

[biblebloodhound]

Perhaps our life situations are more about our way of being in this world, rather than what we do on this earth.

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[geminiagentgreen]

Romans 1:18-32

New International Version

God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

[mybeautifulchristianjourney]

Greeting the Saints in Rome

1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.

11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;

12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.

13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.

14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. — Romans 1 | King James Version (KJV) The King James Version Bible is in the public domain. Cross References: Genesis 1:1; Genesis 6:5; Genesis 8:21; Exodus 23:7; Leviticus 18:22; 1 Samuel 12:23; Numbers 6:25; Psalm 19:1; Psalm 81:12; Proverbs 24:8; Isaiah 44:20; Jeremiah 2:11; Jeremiah 10:14; Habakkuk 2:4; Matthew 1:1; Matthew 1:22; Matthew 4:3; Mark 1:14; John 4:36; Acts 1:25; Acts 3:26; Acts 18:21; Acts 19:21; Acts 28:2; Acts 28:22; Romans 6:21; Romans 10:15; 1 Thessalonians 4:5; 2 Timothy 3:3; Titus 3:3; 2 Peter 1:1; Jude 1:1

[roratecaeli]

[quotesfromscripture]

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans 1:8 KJV (1987)

[revelation29]

I found something infinitely important in Garrard Conley’s book Boy Erased.

He is gay and his first time was with a man. He was attracted to the guy, it started out consensual and then the guy raped him.

And Garrard felt like his homosexuality was as big a sin as the rape. He didn’t tell people and didn’t report the crime because he saw it as something natural to homosexuality. That is what his baptist church had taught him about homosexuality. He also saw it as a punishment. Which makes sense in the light of Romans 1.

If your religion makes you equate homosexuality with rape, your religion sucks major balls.

Who am I to judge rape? How can I have morality without God, you’ll ask, if you’re a Christian. Why don’t you go get raped and learn from experience whether rape is bad.

[blessedarethebinarybreakers]

So in several places it is talked about how in Romans Paul is condemning the exchange of natural relationships for unnatural ones and how it could very likely mean abandoning ones spouse in favor of someone of the same gender when you are not gay as going against your heterosexuality would be the unnatural thing. My question is what about bi people then? Are they saying it would be wrong to be in a same sex relationship with someone because you could be in a opposite sex relationship instead 1/2

2/2 or do you think that is just internalized biphobia at work? Ps. Thanks for the resources and stuff. It has helped a lot.

______

Hey there! Great question. For a TL;DR, i’m going to sum this post up by saying that according to that interpretation of Romans, a bisexual person is acting within their personal nature in a relationship with someone of their own gender or with someone of another gender. Thus it is not wrong to choose to be with someone of the same gender! Either is fine :)

Okay, now for my long-winded reply. 

____________

The argument about “nature”

For anyone reading this post who is unsure what @crazynerdandproud is referencing, unless i’m mistaken they are talking about people like Matthew Vines in God and the Gay Christian and the creators of hoperemainsonline who respond to Christians who claim that Romans 1:26-27 condemns same-sex activity by arguing that no, Paul is not claiming that such sexual activity is unnatural for everyone. Before explaining that a little further, here’s Romans 1:26-27 – 

“For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. For even their females exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the males, leaving the natural use of the female, burned in their lust for one another, males with males committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.” 

In a lecture he gave on “The Bible and Homosexuality,” Matthew Vines uses the viewpoint mentioned in this ask to explain his interpretation of what’s going on with this term “natural”: 

‘The women, [Paul] says, “exchanged” natural relations for unnatural ones. And the men “abandoned” relations with women and committed shameful acts with other men. Both the men and the women started with heterosexuality—they were naturally disposed to it just as they were naturally disposed to the knowledge of God—but they rejected their original, natural inclinations for those that were unnatural: for them, same-sex behavior. Paul’s argument about idolatry requires that there be an exchange; the reason, he says, that the idolaters are at fault is because they first knew God but then turned away from him, exchanged Him for idols. Paul’s reference to same-sex behavior is intended to illustrate this larger sin of idolatry. But in order for this analogy to have any force, in order for it to make sense within this argument, the people he is describing must naturally begin with heterosexual relations and then abandon them. But that is not what we are talking about. Gay people have a natural, permanent orientation toward those of the same sex; it’s not something that they choose, and it’s not something that they can change. They aren’t abandoning or rejecting heterosexuality—that’s never an option for them to begin with. And if applied to gay people, Paul’s argument here should actually work in the other direction: If the point of this passage is to rebuke those who have spurned their true nature, be it religious when it comes to idolatry or sexual, then just as those who are naturally heterosexual should not be with those of the same sex, so, too, those who have a natural orientation toward the same sex should not be with those of the opposite sex. For them, that would be exchanging “the natural for the unnatural” in just the same way. We have different natures when it comes to sexual orientation.’

Vines goes on to discuss how our modern concepts of sexual orientation did not exist in Paul’s day and what that means for his argument, which i appreciate. You can everything he says about Romans 1:26-27 and its context in the link i made above the excerpt. 

_____________

Bi people’s nature

So yeah to sum that up, for people who agree with Vines’ argument around Romans 1:26-27, a straight person abandoning their inherent orientation for a person of the same gender goes against their nature, and it follows that a gay person abandoning their inherent orientation for a person of the “opposite” assigned binary gender goes against their nature. 

Vines does not take the time to keep going through all the various sexualities humans can have (as far as i know; perhaps he does somewhere that i’ve not seen), and i really wish he did. Because i agree with you, @crazynerdandproud – without it being explicitly stated, it might be difficult to extrapolate what someone like Vines thinks about a bisexual person’s nature – or an asexual person’s, or a person with any of the other numerous sexualities beyond homosexual and heterosexual. 

But based on what he does say, i’m pretty sure that scholars who argue that Romans 1:26-27 can be interpreted as a condemnation not of all same-sex activity but of any individual going against their personal nature would say that bi people can be with someone of the same gender or another gender and still be acting within their own nature. 

For a bi person, any option would be “the natural thing” – you can be with a man or a woman or nonbinary person and still be acting according to your own nature.  

________

A same-sex relationship is just as good and holy as any other relationship

Here’s the final thing i wanna say at last!

In asking this question, i feel like you might still be struggling to unlearn an insidious message that society feeds all of us: that same-sex/LGBT/queer relationships are less valid, less legitimate, and otherwise inferior to cishet relationships / a relationship with one cis man and one cis woman. (Or you may have found a resource that implies this and don’t believe it yourself.) 

i have heard people express support of gay people being in a same-sex relationship because “they don’t have any other options” / “they don’t have a choice”; while withholding support of bi people who are in a same-sex relationship because “they could choose to be in a straight relationship.” Pardon my french, but that’s total bullshit.

Just because a bi person “can” end up with someone of the opposite binary sex does not mean that they have to. Any relationship founded on mutuality and love can be affirmed by God and used to bear good fruit. Same-sex relationships aren’t “okay” just because the people in them “can’t help it” – they are good and holy because they cultivate love and respect and mutual support and growth!

i hope this helps! Let me know if i totally misinterpreted your question or forgot to answer part of it.