#semeuke

[queenofsliferred]

some stamps i made in honor of @gesshokudesigns' old semeuke quiz site.

background credit: yuni-naoki on deviantart

[absolutebl]

hi! thank you for your blog!!!! my headlong dive into bl and interest in sociolinguistics has been very well served by your diligent & passionate work~ my question is about women who are love interests of bl couples. I cannot think of an example off the top of my head, but I have observed that at least some women have pretty assertively pursued men, at times even the seme of the ma(i)n pair (lol). This actually surprised me so i began thinking about it. Have you observed any patterns in the ways women & the members of the bl couples interact according to seme uke archetypes i.e. is the uke of the bl couple always pursued by a female love interest & the seme pursuing women? or not? Is seme-ukeship, so to speak, confined to the romantic-sexual relationship between the bl couple? Is it at all a useful framework to understand the way these male characters act w or respond to women? What do you think this says about the way personality and gender are conceptualized with respect to romance/sex in the series? HHHH this seems like a 3000-word essay question so please answer in whatever depth u please! thank u & have a good day :D

Hum, let me try to unpack this.

First: I refer to these characters as the faen fatals. 

Basically a character whose presence in the narrative functions merely as a plot device to put pressure (usually in the form of jealousy) on the main couple's relationship.

This character is often an ex.

Generally speaking, the uke character is given a male faen fatal, and the seme a female one. But if the uke is very tusndere bi, then he may have a female flirt.

A prime example is Tonhon Chonlatee. Ton's ex girlfriend is constantly messing with their relationship. While Chon gets flirted with and pursued only by men.

To unpack the gender part of your question here’s a few things:

If a character is going to be out and openly gay, it's usually the uke (not always there are exceptions especially these days, but usually)

Seme/uke archetypes (from yaoi) always conflate uke = female, and seme = male. The stronger these archetypes as part of the narrative, the more this will be conflated. So places like Thailand who love S/u, lean more towards the old "that one is the girl" style of not-gay (AKA gay as perceived by straight people).

Places where there are weak seme/uke like Taiwan and Korea, neatly avoid this conflation,

It comes from an inability to understand sex or romance between two people without a power imbalance, and/or outside of a heterosexual lens

It comes from the VERY weird idea that if you "take it" you must be weaker and "the girl" and that your preference in sexual acts somehow contributes to your personality (a deeply misogynistic concept) 

So goodie, it’s anti-queer AND anti-women

Here’s some of my seme/uke stuff that goes more into depth on this

Defining Seme/Uke 

MORE seme/uke discussion including some coaching from P’AbsoluteBL on your sex life.... 

Why is the Main (POV) Character in BL the Uke? 

Hope that helps a bit...

[aigooooo]

Dojin can step on me whenever, though he already has Hyesung 👀🥵 Daddy longs lengs is what it is 👉🏻👈🏻

[girlwithshipsshitshow]

Name something cuter than the seme ruffling the ukes hair... I’ll wait...

[adventuresofthejadecockring2]

[absolutebl]

Hey! I wanted to ask you about the bizarre imposition of "husband/wife" dynamics on BL couples.

This question first came to me when I watched my second ever BL, Bad Buddy (First being SE).

There, I thought the trope was just another way to demonstrate Pat still has some elements of toxic masculinity, but it gets shot down fast enough that I didn't think much of it other than as something that is part of Pat's growth with Pran's influence.

Then I fell down the BL rabbit hole and never looked back...

And I saw the trope EVERYWHERE

Particularly with Thai BL's. What is it with the bizarre need to apply het dynamics over a relationship that EXPLICITLY breaks the very foundations of them?

Why is the uke feminized against his will so often? Why the feminization at all? Not that femininity is bad thing, but rather, why particularly project the husband/wife dynamic?

A dynamic that stereotypically represents some of the bizzare aspects of the enforcement of gender roles with some other aspects of dominance and submission (and not in the kink way).

This became particularly alarming to me with BohnDuen in My Engineer. I'm at Episode 9 right now and the whole awful top/bottom discourse aside, this entire situation with the husband/wife makes me awfully uncomfortable.

Is there any particular reason for this?

Ah, heterosexual dysmorphia and the seme/uke dynamic. I talk about is quite a bit under the queer critique banner, here's some links:

BL Master Post (includes a brief history of the genre and its connection to yaoi, the source of this dynamic, as well as audience expectations)

Husband Wife Language in Thai BL 

Femme Representation in BL 

Sex negativity as part of the seme/uke dynamic

MORE seme/uke discussion including some coaching from P’AbsoluteBL on your sex life.... 

In which I talk a bit about the ubiquity of dubious consent in BL

Tropes that are seme/uke dysmorphic 

Hope this is helpful! 

[absolutebl]

“It was the best of BL, it was the worst of BL, it was the age of the tsundere uke, it was the age of the pining seme, it was the epoch of the disaster bi, it was the epoch of the confident gay, it was the season of Frigay, it was the rise of Taiwan, it was the surprise of Korea, it was the winter of Manner of Death, it was the spring of a 1000 Stars.” 

~ self kicking the dickens out of BL inside jokes 

@heretherebedork made me do it 

[absolutebl]

When Leo and Fiat are talking outside the house after Fiat's scene with Fa and Fay, what was Leo expressing dissatisfaction about? After Fiat said that he was relieved he'd gotten to talk things out with Fay, Fa, Mait, and his mom, the lines we're given are:

Leo-And what about me?

Fiat-You're sulking? Well?

Leo-How could I not? You always dismissed me.

Fiat-Come on, I thought it wasn't something to worry about.

Leo-But it was something big in your boyfriend's eyes.

What on earth are they talking about?

Oh, Leo's sulking because he arranged everything. He's basically responsible for Fiat being reunited with his family and then Fiat keeps crowing about it without saying, "Thank you baby for making this happen." Also he's jelly anytime he is not the center of Fiat's universe.

The seme almost always needs praise as either a verbal or physical acknowledgment (Fiat gives him both) for have problem solved for his boy.

Seme was presented with Problem.

Seme found solution.

Seme gets reward.

*chest beating action*

It's all very hero-dudebro-alpha-whatnot.

(Yes that's totally an archetype. Sadly it's also, occasionally, a reality.)