#shadar logoth

[ankh-morporkianpostalworker]

I fuckin love abandoned cities and castles and stuff in fantasy amd sci fi. Give me a place where there should be people, but there aren't. Maybe tell me what happened, maybe don't, I just need it in my veins. I need the vibes.

[iliiuan]

These clowns (Mat, Rand, and Perrin) knew they shouldn't go running off alone (in Aridhol) and they did it anyway. That shit's not on Moiraine.

It's an abandoned city. Like. Not a living soul. Creepy asf.

There aren't even animals.

The city isn't consumed by vegetation.

How are these not big enough hints?

The place's new name is Shadar Logoth. Moiraine told them that. They just ignored what it could imply.

But wait! There's more!

They sneak out without telling anyone. Because if they tell someone, they won't be allowed to go adventuring.

They *knew* they had no business leaving the group. And they chose to make excuses about why it would be ok to completely ignore common fucking sense to go roaming around an abandoned city on their own. They work very hard to rationalize why it would be safe, which means that they know instinctively it is not safe.

If anything, Thom Merrilin dropped the ball by leaving them unsupervised once he finished with his horse duties. Which, seriously, 18 year olds need supervision? (Yes, sadly, they do.)

Bonus:

They follow some guy named More Death. Because that's not a giant red flag. Woolheads is accurate.

However, and this is pretty stinking important: The shenanigans in Aridhol are vital to the eventual cleansing of saidin. If they hadn't gone exploring, if they hadn't followed Mordeth, if Mat hadn't taken the dagger, if Fain hadn't slashed Rand on another of his foolish outings....Rand would not have felt the two evils fighting, he wouldn't have identified Aridhol as a tool for removing the taint, and who knows when or how saidin would have been cleansed. So really, everything played out how it needed to. (They're still woolheads, but their wooldheadedness serves a purpose, so <shrug>.)

[wot-tidbits]

Mat's Cursed Dagger by Adrian Sallusti

[catcauthon]

Musings On the Nature of the Shadar Logoth Dagger

The effects of the Shadar Logoth Taint are relatively straightforward- 'Infect the holder with the paranoia and hate that destroyed Aridhol, until they succumb completely (potentially becoming contagious) or die'. But it was still somewhat fascinating to me during my first read through. Specifically, I was intrigued by the question of how it works inside of someone. So that's what we're going to be talking about today.

'Once it was called Aridhol,' Moiraine replied, 'and was one of the Ten Nations, the lands that made the Second Covenant, the lands that stood against the Dark One from the first days after the Breaking of the World. In the days when Thorin al Toren al Ban was King of Manetheren, the King of Aridhol was Balwen Mayel, Balwen Ironhand. In a twilight of despair during the Trolloc Wars, when it seemed the Father of Lies must surely conquer, the man called Mordeth came to Balwen's court.' [...] 'Before Mordeth had been long in the city he had Balwen's ear, and soon he was second only to the King. Mordeth whispered poison in Balwen's ear, and Aridhol began to change. Aridhol drew in on itself, hardened. It was said that some would rather see Trollocs come than the men of Aridhol. The victory of the Light is all. That was the battlecry Mordeth gave them, and the men of Aridhol shouted it while their deeds abandoned the Light. 'The story is too long to tell in full, and too grim, and only fragments are known, even in Tar Valon. How Thorin's son, Caar, came to win Aridhol back to the Second Covenant, and Balwen sat his throne, a withered shell with the light of madness in his eyes, laughing while Mordeth smiled at his side and ordered the deaths of Caar and the embassy as Friends of the Dark. [...] How the armies of Manetheren came to avenge Caar and found the gates of Aridhol torn down, no living thing inside the walls, but something worse than death. No enemy had come to Aridhol but Aridhol. Suspicion and hate had given birth to something that fed on that which created it, something locked in the bedrock on which the city stood. Mashadar waits still, hungering. Men spoke of Aridhol no more. They named it Shadar Logoth, the Place where the Shadow Waits, or more simply, Shadow's Waiting. 'Mordeth alone was not consumed by Mashadar, but he was snared by it, and he, too, has waited within these walls through the long centuries. Others have seen him. Some he has influenced through gifts that twist the mind and taint the spirit, the taint waxing and waning until it rules...or kills. If he ever convinces someone to accompany him to the walls, to the boundary of Mashadar's power, he will be able to consume the soul of that person. Mordeth will leave, wearing the body of the one he worse than killed, to wreak his evil on the world again.' (EotW, Chapter 19: 'Shadow's Waiting')

This quote introduces the basic history of Shadar Logoth- a prominent city-state that is corrupted when it's King falls prey to manipulation during an incredibly dark time, destroying itself and creating new evils through paranoia and hate- and points out the 3 primary forms that evil takes.

Mordeth; the remnant of the manipulative advisor who corrupted Aridhol and led to it's downfall, now trapped within the city until he possesses a visitor.

Mashadar; the mindless mist that lives in city and comes out at night, drawn to any living thing inside the walls, which it will kill with a single touch.

The Shadar Logoth Taint; which appears to be something of a cross between the other two. Like Mashadar it inhabits the physical body of the ruins itself, kills, and (sometimes) 'feeds on' the people it affects. Like Mordeth, it can be carried outside the city by a visitor, influence the person who takes it to make them paranoid and hateful, and can infect others through that person.

Based on this mixed nature, I'd like to propose that the tactics the Taint uses to influence a person may well overlap with those used by Mordeth. We don't see a lot of how Mordeth gets in people's heads, but I think we can make some guesses based on what we do see as well as general patterns. There's a few in particular to take note of.

1) Positioning Oneself as the Source of Truth and Safety

I think we can all agree that we're most likely to believe or listen to the people we see as trustworthy and reliable; no one takes suggestions from people they know are malicious. It's no surprise then that the first thing Mordeth does in Aridhol is get their trust, becoming the King's primary advisor and convincing the people of Aridhol that they need him in order to defeat the Shadow, lest they be completely overrun. Mordeth-Fain attempts something similar when approaching High Lord Turak in tGH, ingratiating himself by gifting him the horn and claiming to be part of a family that held the oaths even as everyone else forgot them, and is eager to serve. Now, I’m not trying to suggest that Mat trusts the dagger-at least not the way you trust a person - but we do see him look to it as a means for safety (it becomes his go-to for self-defense during the Caemlyn Roadtrip, with him immediately grabbing it whenever it looks like there might be a fight). Perhaps more interestingly, he also turns to it for a sense of reassurance when upset.

Rand reached out to shake him awake, and at the first touch Mat sat up with a strangled grunt. For a minute Mat stared around wildly, then drew a long, shuddering breath and dropped his head into his hands. Abruptly he twisted around, digging under his pillow, then sank back clutching the ruby-hilted dagger in both hands in his chest. (EotW, Chapter 43: Decisions and Apparitions)

Mat slouched in his chair, eyes half closed and the beginnings of a grin on his face. It was a nervous grin, not amusement. Outwardly he looked like the old Mat, but from time to time he unconsciously touched the Shadar Logoth Dagger through his coat. What is Fain telling her? What does he know? (EotW Chapter 47: More Tales of the Wheel)

‘Maybe I don't want you two going with me, always hanging around, falling into trouble and expecting me to pull you out. You ever think of that? Burn me, did it ever occur to you I might be tired of always having you there whenever I turn around? Always there, and I'm tired of it.’ The hurt on Perrin’s face cut him like a knife, but he pushed on relentlessly. ‘There are some here think I’m a lord. A lord. Maybe I like that. But look at you, dicing with stable hands. When I go, I go by myself. You two can go to Tar Valon or go hang yourselves, but I leave here alone.’ Mat’s face had gone stiff, and he clutched the dagger through his coat till his knuckles were white.” (tGH, Chapter 3: Friends and Enemies)

And then, of course, there's the elephant in the room in terms of reliance: the fact that Moiraine can't disconnect him from it without killing him in EotW, and when it's stolen in tGH it results in him effectively starving to death and wasting away, regardless of what he eats, even though he's been buffered against the effects by a circle of Aes Sedai.

2) Isolation

Being isolated makes people vulnerable, in part because we simply aren't built to get by on our own-we need connection- but also because it prevents exposure to contradictory viewpoints, as it means there's no one to push back against whatever narrative is being put forth. This is why one of the first steps for someone who wants to manipulate or control you is often to get you away from others, especially those who'd try to help you or talk you out of it. And this is exactly what Mordeth did to the city of Aridhol- he encouraged them to shut in on themselves, withdrawing from the world and their allies so that they'd feel alone in their fight, but also so that no one would call him out. (And anyone who did wouldn't do it again, because they'd be named a Friend of the Dark and executed.)

We see what this looks like in the Taint from Mat. One of the first signs we get, before Rand knows Mat took the dagger, is mention of how he'd been spending a lot of time as alone as he could manage. At Whitebridge, we see him directly tell Thom to leave him and Rand alone and go his own way. On the road, he's constantly side-eyeing other people and as a result, he gets him and Rand shoved away from a lot of people who had been willing to help. Eventually, in Caemlyn, he literally gets to a point where he's shutting himself in their room constantly and refusing to talk to or eat anything brought by anyone but Rand. The whole time, he's expressing this growing certainty that the others are all dead, he and Rand are the only ones left, that they're completely alone. Even after Moraine heals him and tries to contain the dagger's effects, it's quite possible that this is also part of why he's so reluctant to listen to Rand's apology attempts in tGH.

3) Exploitation of Pre-existing Vulnerabilities and Weaknesses

There's a reason abusers often go after people with low-self worth who are more likely to believe it's their fault in someway, why cults target people who feel ostracized in some way and are therefore desperate for somewhere to belong, and politicians throughout history have used marginalized groups as scapegoats for things like economic hardships. Generally speaking, we’re more likely to believe things that fit into whatever narrative we already have about the world, and desperation isn't exactly known for providing clarity. When Mordeth came to Aridhol, it was during a time when it looked like they were going to lose, and were thus desperate and easy to convince. But perhaps a stronger example is how he approaches the boys, focusing his attention on Mat- the naive one, seeking distraction from his old blood outburst, already expecting treasure. He only comes up to them once Mat shares that expectation, seemingly tailoring his ruse accordingly. And it works, Mat bought it hook, line, and sinker.It's interesting to note, then, that effects of the taint are somewhat individualized, always featuring paranoia leading to hate, but that presents itself in different ways and the effects aren't limited to just that.

Elaida gets more arrogant-eventually even deciding that she should build herself a palace on tower grounds- and her paranoia isn't centered around darkfriends at all, barely even touching on them. Instead, she's worried about how people perceive her, whether they respect her authority and if they're going to usurp her the way she did Siuan.

Mat develops a sense of hopelessness in addition to the expected paranoia, believing the others are all dead and he and Rand don't have a chance of survival. Unlike Elaida, his paranoia is centered around darkfriends, but that's kind of a given when he and Rand really are being chased by them. And that's not all he’s worried about- the text also points out that he's afraid of Rand abandoning him and leaving him alone (an insecurity that's been subtly present the whole book and helps to explain why Rand’s words hit him so hard).

It could perhaps be explained as just individual minds taking in the Taint and processing it however they're individually inclined, but…

‘Everybody changes,’ Mat rasped. ‘How can I be sure? Perrin? Is that you? You’ve changed, haven’t you?’ His laugh sounded more like a cough. ‘Oh, yes, you’ve changed.’To Rand’s surprise Perrin dropped into the edge of the other bed with his head in his hands, staring at the floor. Mat’s hacking laughter seemed to pierce him.{...}‘Pretty Nynaeve,’ Mat spat. ‘A Wisdom isn't supposed to think of herself as a woman, is she? Not a pretty woman. But you do, don't you? Now. You can't make yourself forget that you're a pretty woman, now, and it frightens you. Everybody changes.’ Nynaeve's face paled as he spoke – whether with anger or something else, Rand could not tell. Mat gave a sly laugh, and his feverish eyes slid to Egwene. ‘Pretty Egwene,’ he croaked. ‘Pretty as Nynaeve. And you share other things now, don't you? Other dreams. What do you dream about now?’ Egwene took a step back from the bed.(EotW Chapter 41: Old Friends and New Threats)

This seems targeted- Perrin's discomfort with his newfound Wolfbrother abilities, Nynaeve's discomfort with her growing feelings for Lan (and not fitting her idea of what a Wisdom should be). His statements towards Egwene seem a little less so, at least if we assume it's aimed solely at her, but he's also pointing it out as a similarity to Nynaeve - and we know it bothers her. But also…Mat shouldn't. Mat doesn't even know Nynaeve can channel, so the fact that he's commenting on it means the Taint is somehow providing that information. But it doesn't know about Rand, so it doesn't just sense channelers. Maybe it senses these insecurities and whatnot the way Mashadar senses people, drawn to what it sees as food.

[chloristoflora]

"Aren't you forgetting the Trollocs?" Perrin said.

Mat shook his head scornfully. "Lan said they wouldn't come in here, remember? You need to listen to what people say."

"I remember," Perrin said. "And I do listen. This city — Aridhol? — was an ally of Manetheren. See? I listen."

"Aridhol must have been the greatest city in the Trolloc Wars," Rand said, "for the Trollocs to still be afraid of it. They weren't afraid to come into the Two Rivers, and Moiraine said Manetheren was — how did she put it? — a thorn to the Dark One's foot."

Perrin raised his hands. "Don't mention the Shepherd of the Night. Please?"

"What do you say?" Mat laughed. "Let's go."

"We should ask Moiraine," Perrin said, and Mat threw up his hands.

"Ask Moiraine? You think she'll let us out of her sight? And what about Nynaeve? Blood and ashes, Perrin, why not ask Mistress Luhhan while you're about it?"

Perrin nodded reluctant agreement, and Mat turned to Rand with a grin. "What about you? A real city? With palaces!" He gave a sly laugh. "And no Whitecloaks to stare at us."

Rand gave him a dirty look, but he hesitated only a minute. Those palaces were like a gleeman's tale. "All right."

Stepping softly so as not to be heard in the front room, they left by the alley, following it away from the front of the building to a street on the other side. They walked quickly, and when they were a block away from the white stone building Mat suddenly broke into a capering dance.

"Free." He laughed. "Free!" He slowed until he was turning a circle, staring at everything and still laughing. The afternoon shadows stretched long and jagged, and the sinking sun made the ruined city golden. "Did you ever even dream of a place like this? Did you?"

Perrin laughed, too, but Rand shrugged uncomfortably. This was nothing like the city in his first dream, but just the same... "If we're going to see anything," he said, "we had better get on with it. There isn't much daylight left."

The Eye of the World, by Robert Jordan (The Wheel of Time #1, Chapter 19: Shadow's Waiting)

[toastandjamie]

Hey so I wanna talk about the two distinct types of evil present in WoT, the Dark one and Shadar Logoth.

These evils are similar in that they amplify negative emotions to the point that they boil over into cruelty and violence, where they differ however is that the emotions that draw people to them are born from different places, the dark one being an internal force where as Shadar Logoth relies on external forces.

The dark one is very classic satan allegory where the emotions he preys upon are the seven deadly sins. Greed, envy, lust, pride. The people who seek out the dark one and become dark friends usually feel like they are entitled to something that they aren’t receiving, whether that’s power, money, attention, knowledge- the dark one in turn offers them a way to achieve these goals they feel they deserve but evil is a corruptive force and eventually these feelings of envy and greed grow to the point where they no longer care about who gets hurt in the process of attaining their perceived just reward. The core of the Dark Ones evil is selfishness.

Shadar Logoth by contrast is a more “sympathetic” evil, born of feelings of anxiety and fear. Shadar Logoth was born from the people of Aridhol’s fears of the Trolloks and dark friends and as that paranoia grew they lashed out inwards and destroyed themselves. The evil of Shadar Logoth doesn’t make you violent or angry, the irritability and violence we associate it with are just side affects of the long lasting stress the evil does amplify. The core of Shadar Logoths evil is distrust.

These two types of evil while they do claim to despise eachother are not mutually exclusive however as we see Padan Faine seamlessly blend his greed and pride with Mordreth’s anxiety and fear, which feed on eachother until it developed into what we see him become where he’s callous and cruel, and specifically in the way he targets Rand, he “hates” Rand because of the anxiety that was born of failing the dark one and being tortured was amplified and mixed with his already present contempt and feelings of superiority.

However we see the flaws in the evil in the characters that manage to break out of the cycles of violence that they both feed on.

Verin, though she doesn’t go in with the intention of joining the dark went in with the selfish motivation of seeking out knowledge not for the good of the world but out of curiosity and boredom. She breaks away from the corruptive evil by her selfless act of sacrificing herself to bring to light the knowledge of the black ajah to the Tower.

Mat, is an interesting case because the corruptive nature of Shadar Logoth is more obvious. We see his fear amplified and it might be easy to say that the only reason he was freed from the evil was outside intervention and while that was what finished the job of cutting out the rot we also learn that he held up surprisingly well against the daggers corruption. He was able to last as long as he did because he was willing to be vulnerable and trust Rand. He was able to suppress many of the violent urges his fear created by sheer force of will because of the fact that he knew that he COULD trust someone which is antithetical to the evil of shadar logoth.

The two evils can survive on their own but they truly thrive in tandem and that was what made Faine so powerful that both the light and dark feared him. Because he exemplified all the worst parts of humanity all the fear, distrust, greed, envy and hate all personified into one being. The one thing however the destroys them both is in the most cliche of senses love, it is trust and kindness and selflessness that both evils can not defend against.

[haaaaaaaaaaaave-you-met-ted]

Shadar Logoth by Sergey Shikin

[earlcortez]

The Ruined City of Shadar Logoth - The Wheel of Time (2021)