#shanshu

[thatslayer]

David Boreanaz as Angel / Angelus

[casenpoint]

I Can't Remember Part Trois

All chapters at once it is. :D

Rated: E

An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works

[oveliagirlhaditright]

You know... I'm just thinking about Angel and the whole Shanshu thing. And I feel like it had to eventually happen in his future, right? Because prophecies are something you can't get out of.

I feel like that's not something Joss was going for, because his whole thing was "you don't get happy endings." At least if you're Angel. But he also set it up that prophecies can't be avoided and he wrote this prophecy into the story, so...

I feel like they tried to say that Angel got his Shanshu in Angel: After the Fall, when Wolfram & Hart temporarily made him human while he was in Hell. But that was to make him crazy. And according to Wesley, the Shanshu is supposed to be a reward for stopping an apocalypse. So, unless Wesley translated that part of the prophecy wrong, I feel like it doesn't count.

Same thing with people who try to say that when Angel got the Mohra demon's blood in him in "I Wil Remember You", that was the Shanshu. No: because it was supposed to be a reward for stopping an apocalypse. That whole thing was a complete accident and there was no apocalypse in sight in that episode.

The only other argument that makes sense, I guess, is if you say that the prophecy about "the vampire with a soul turning human" was about Spike, not Angel.

But if so, the point still stands that the prophecy should still be on the table. Because neither Angel nor Spike have yet stopped an apocalypse and turned human as a reward for that yet.

And, no: I don't think that's something you can just sign away, like Angel was forced to try to do towards the end of Angel season 5. I feel like that actually increases his chances of getting the Shanshu, actually, because that was a selfless act.

[nileqt87]

How I’d write a Buffy/Angel spinoff!

I still say the best spinoff they could possibly ever make would be all the Chosen Slayers getting deactivated, then Buffy and a Shanshu'd Angel (IMO, this plot really would only work with Angel, because it actually matches his story arc, not Spike's, to want a human life and fatherhood) have a daughter who grows up not knowing the truth about her parents (and half-brother!) until it's forced to come out.

I would particularly note that the first thing that happens to newly-called Slayers is their prophetic dreams. If ever there was a way to start breaking secrets to this new heroine that also serves as flashback exposition featuring the old shows, this seems custom-built for it. It’s exposition for the audience that never saw the old shows as well as an introduction to a key Slayer ability, but most importantly, it’s personal family revelations that go far deeper than historical flashbacks of unrelated persons or monsters that mean nothing personal. These would be scandalous secrets for a baby Slayer, given Buffy was the rule-breaking Slayer who is most famous for having romantic relationships with the very creatures she’s supposed to slay. Angelus would be the worst family secret of all! This story has all the makings of an existential crisis before acceptance. That would also be a good place to drop in Connor’s history. Buffy never actually got to react to that bombshell either, so that would be an interesting drama with her, as well. Buffy and Angel both tended to feature heavily in prophetic dreams, so it also just feels right to continue that.

If there's some reason why David Boreanaz (who, let's face it, is really not getting younger and SEAL Team can't go on forever) can't or is unwilling to appear, one could have an explanation that Wolfram & Hart has had him trapped in a holding dimension for years as punishment.

You could even build an arc around that with Buffy or the daughter trying to find him. Basically, a kind way of explaining Angel's absence if necessary and Buffy unfortunately having to mirror her single mother (which was a fear of hers), despite it being no fault of Angel's. It would be yet more cruelty for him to miss out on yet another child growing up, which would be a dramatic plot point itself. It could actually become a story where he does matter quite a lot, despite initial absence or mystery.

An even bigger shock than mom having Slayer superpowers and a world full of supernatural forces would be a reveal that dad is a 394+-year-old (depends on if you count hell--in a modern-day spinoff, Angel is rapidly approaching 400 years!) ex-vampire.

The most interesting and fitting story you could ever do with a maturing Buffy would be having her be a mother and trying to have a normal life.

This would also give Sarah Michelle Gellar a starring role that allows her to be age-appropriate, yet also having a younger generation that the original audience can still care about because she isn't completely divorced from the two previous shows in the way that an unrelated Slayer spinoff would be. It allows the core storylines of *both* shows to truly matter, far more than a Buffy Steele-Gunn offspring would.

---

Just a a few notes about my pitch for a continuation that works with the real ages of actors and their availability... I should also note that Xander (played by Nick, anyway--Kelly might work for a flashback) is a character who could never appear in live-action again, so maybe he could be used as another event that contributed to Buffy's retirement besides pregnancy.

If the Shanshu and conception were directly post-NFA, any offspring would be 16 years old right now. IMO, if there were any plans to give SMG a series with her in a major supporting role, this just means that the space for how long between NFA and the Shanshu or how long Bangel got to be with each other widens for however many years it would take to revive the franchise.

I strongly believe that the best option for the franchise would be a back-to-the-suburbs story exploring age-appropriate Buffy facing motherhood, rather than trying to turn Buffy into a war general surrounded by nothing but subordinates (horribly alienating future for her) with a lack of equals or a grounded setting à la the season 8 comics. If you want to introduce the Buffyverse to a new audience whom you can't expect to watch 24-year-old shows until they're interested enough by the revival, you're going to have to ground characters in a relatable reality.

As for how a new Slayer would be called after deactivation, I firmly believe the line is through Faith now anyway, so it would just take her dying for a minute à la Prophecy Girl for a new Slayer to be called. I would definitely want Faith in the show!

--- Facebook discussion

I feel like SMG's concern was less wanting to reprise the role entirely, but more concern that she'd be expected to play the same exact role in her 40s. This is giving her a role that fits a woman (and a mother in real life) who is in her 40s and is a major supporting role rather than he young lead whose story is being centered on.

As for the Angel situation, SMG might actually be more willing to return if she could beg DB to come back for perhaps an initially-limited role and the scenario is one I believe she'd actually support, as it fits with her preferences!

While it might seem that Buffy as a single mother retreads the original, Angel is obviously nothing like the Hank situation (not to mention Joyce and Hank being completely clueless), so the circumstances of the father would be quite different from Buffy's own situation, while also feeding into her own stated fears about her future.

This also brings up all the conversations in Bad Eggs, The Prom and the Chosen cookie dough analogy (children are mentioned again) to the forefront. Unlike with the other options, it was something that came up repeatedly. Admittedly, it was always by Angel due to his infertility and the human life he most desired; all of which ended up being an important part of *his* story.

However, a part of Bad Eggs that is woefully underrated is that Buffy was disappointed when Angel told her vampires can't have children. She immediately covers it up with a babble speech and then starts making excuses for why Slayers are unlikely to have that kind of future. Young Buffy did not disregard it because she didn't want children ever at all, but because the person whom she saw that future with was someone who couldn't have them.

Enter Nikki Wood, where Buffy learns that at least one Slayer was definitely a mother, which she was clearly surprised by.

That's another reason why I can see Buffy, if she got her hopes up with post-Shanshu Angel and conceived, would do anything to be a good mom by not being all about "the mission". She would never want her child to be raised without parents. And I think she'd be doubly sensitive to that, not just because of Nikki, but because of Hank leaving and Joyce dying.

Buffy also became surrogate mother to Dawn, who was made out of her (in a sense, she is her real mother), so Angel's situation with Connor actually had a direct mirror in Buffy's situation with Dawn.

But those conversations were also not just about wished-for children that couldn't be conceived, but also asking Buffy to think about what she wants for her future if she took out the belief that Slayers don't live long enough to have one.

This show would be the answer to what happens to a Slayer when she does live long enough to have the future she barely wanted to get her hopes up for before.

Buffy (ditto Angel) is the character for which this story actually has a ton of setup in the shows themselves. These characters talked about it! And the circumstances are really nothing like Joyce and Hank, even if the initial setup plays into both Buffy and Angel's worst nightmare scenarios about parenthood: being a single mother and not getting to raise the miracle child you thought you'd never have. That kind of bittersweet writing that shirks too-good-to-be-true wish-fulfillment is a cornerstone of what makes it a Buffyverse storyline. If the daughter's family lied to her about their history to keep her safe and protect her from knowing what goes bump in the night (making them the polar opposites of Hank and Joyce in regards to knowing all too well--especially Angel's experience of being the worst thing you could bump into at night, rather than utterly clueless), that would certainly be a conflict. Especially if she found out in a particularly shocking way (say, prophetic dreams). And if Angel (I'd like to imagine he has the company of ghost!Wesley and maybe Illyria and Spike) has been taken for punishment by Wolfram & Hart, it might really confuse her if she doesn't know that he didn't just leave or some other excuse Buffy covered it up with. Wolfram & Hart would also probably love the irony of Angel getting what he most desires (to be human and a father), only to punish him with it by wasting his remaining years separated from all that he loves.

[thatslayer]

starter for @shanshu

"Thought you were all set just to rot away in that apartment, yet here you are, trailin' me on a slay. What changed? Not that I'm not thrilled, obvi."

[spiketheforsakensoul]

@angel-the-taciturn-shadowy-guy

@shanshuanshu

[thatslayer]

Smash or pass?

     𝐒𝐄𝐍𝐃   "  𝐒𝐌𝐀𝐒𝐇   𝐎𝐑   𝐏𝐀𝐒𝐒  “   𝐅𝐎𝐑   𝐌𝐘   𝐌𝐔𝐒𝐄   𝐓𝐎   𝐀𝐍𝐒𝐖𝐄𝐑   𝐇𝐎𝐍𝐄𝐒𝐓𝐋𝐘   𝐀𝐁𝐎𝐔𝐓   𝐘𝐎𝐔𝐑𝐒.   𝐍𝐎   𝐋𝐘𝐈𝐍𝐆   𝐀𝐋𝐋𝐎𝐖𝐄𝐃  .

"I can't believe I'm about to say this but, pass. Sorry, Big Guy. I'm about as close to you as I ever been to anybody, and I don't wanna mess that up."

"Plus, there's that whole... Elijah thing."

[youweremythtaken]

@shanshu liked for a starter

The rain outside is doing that annoying, aggressive tapping thing against the diner window, like a vampire begging to be let in. Buffy keeps her eyes glued to her plate, methodically cutting a sausage link into perfectly even, weapon-sized pieces. Fighting apocalypse after apocalypse apparently doesn't do much for your career trajectory, but it definitely leaves you with a deep, spiritual appreciation for 24-hour breakfast.

Her shoulders ache. It’s not the sharp, hot pain of a fresh vampire bite, but the dull, heavy thrum of a body that’s been slammed into brick walls for over thirty years. The Slayer mojo handles the broken bones, but it doesn't do anything for the sheer, exhausting mileage of a lifetime spent on the hunt.

Then, the air goes entirely still.

It’s not the standard, prickly monster-nearby tingle that makes her knuckles itch for a stake. This is a profound, tectonic shift in the room that goes straight to the centre of her chest. It’s a sudden, heavy warmth that smells of damp leather and a specific, clean scent that she used to breathe in against the crook of a neck when the rest of the world was falling apart. It’s the scent of the dark, but the kind of dark that ever only felt like safety.

She doesn't drop her fork. She just pushes a stray blond hair out of her eyes, her chest tightening with an ache that is pure, immense relief. She stares at the empty booth seat directly across from her, not even needing to look up to know he's standing right there in the shadows by the jukebox, probably watching her with that same intense, protective gravity he always does, "If you're here to steal my hash browns, the answer is a hard no,"