I gotta be honest, every time I see someone say “m/m shippers should be writing or reading f/f instead! write f/f now!” I want to write or read f/f even less.
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I gotta be honest, every time I see someone say “m/m shippers should be writing or reading f/f instead! write f/f now!” I want to write or read f/f even less.
Episode 133: Slash: The Discourse
In Episode 133, Elizabeth and Flourish talk directly about a topic that creeps into a lot of Fansplaining discussions: slash fic and the people who write it. They walk through the history of “slash fandom” and the ways that early narratives about it endure to this day, and they dig into the fraught gender politics around slash, wrapping up with a discussion of whether the term means anything at all in 2020. They also read a slew of listener letters about the topic of the last episode, purity culture.
Click through to listen or read a full transcript on our site!
( Part 1 of 2) Diane’s homophobic Twist and Shout post
I’ve satirized this bullshit already but I want to hit it head on rn while I’m ill in bed and have some down time. I don’t usually want to run up a diane-sized word count on this blog, but so much of this post reflects common discriminatory claims and bias, I intend it to be a long one.
Notes on bias: I read T&S in 2014. Its not a favorite, but I considerate significant in fandom history.
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Diane hasn’t actually read Twist and Shout, and she’s years late to any discussion of it
Please keep in mind, Diane is very homophobic and biphobic. She insists on saying Misha is straight even though he is (albeit quietly) bisexual, and has said as much, and is/has been polyamorous. She believes Misha actively encourages the fetishization of gay men by straight women. She believes most women in fandom spaces are straight. She’s also attacked queer tumblr users, particularly those who are bi.
Diane isn’t a gay man, she isn’t American, she’s a 45ish year old Indian South African Muslim. Yet, she’s trying to speak for all gay men and all Americans, here. Yikes.
She claims Twist and Shout is the next 50 shades. This is one of those particular clues that makes it clear she hasn’t read T&S. The first chapter on AO3 is actually a Q&A that confirms the authors are disgusted by the for-profit offers they have received. The fic’s popularity surge was, after a point, incredibly unfun for these writers who put a lot of love and care into writing it.
Another clue Diane hasn’t read the work: T&S was not written by straight teenage girls. It was written by two queer women.
Notice that Diane generally only sees queer people if they are male and convenient for her rantings.
“Let the gay men get their hands on this” is the way homophobic and racist people talk about marginalized groups, (especially if they are old as balls like Diane).
Diane’s little summary of gay history only focuses on death and homophobia. Another clue as to how she really feels about gay men when they aren’t convenient for her false narratives.
I guarantee she has never even met a gay American who was out before and during the aids epidemic. If she has, she owes him an apology for writing this trash heap.
Any queer person is going to be more insulted by someone like Diane reducing them to morbid stats than they are going to be insulted by Twist and Shout. More on that later.
Out of context of actual America, Diane makes it sound like everyone was talking about AIDS and queer people, during this era of America. They weren’t until it really started to affect white straight people and even then, it was hush hush or misinformation. That was part of the problem. More on that silence later.
Diane’s paragraph about Vietnam is again, reducing it to stats and presuming that even an American audience doesn’t know Vietnam really happened or that it was really fucking horrible. Everybody in America knows someone who was affected by that war. The veterans are still alive, for fucks sake.
Diane, despite being obsessed with destiel fandom, clearly thinks fic is only masterbation material, especially slash. (And she clearly thinks masturbation is dirty and wrong! Lol)
“Couldn’t they make up a war instead of leeching from history” ....what. literally no one says this about historical fiction.
This is uncomfortable to write but No American wants to be told what to say or what not to say about 9/11. A large chunk of Americans would be angry at hearing that from a foreign Muslim, because racism and islamaphobia are well entrenched here. (Does that mean Diane can’t talk about 9/11? No. More on that later.)
9/11 and post-9/11 as slash fic is not an offensive concept. Post-9/11 islamaphobia, racism, conspiracy theories, hate crimes and war profiteering are much much more offensive.
Queering 9/11 narratives is actually a really good idea. Most mainstream media about 9/11 and post-9/11 panders to far right “patriots”, who in addition to being islamaphobic, are frequently homophobic as well.
“Why not leave out war and ptsd because these are not tropes” from a deeply deeply personal and painful place in my heart, fuck you. More on that later.
Diane goes from criticizing T&S aestheticism to saying war and mental health shouldn’t be written about because...not tropes? Another example of how she flip flops according to her need to hate things
Okay, time for the “More On That Later” section...
I feel like a lot of the hand-wringing over slash fiction can be waved away with the advice of “don’t get your sex ed from porn.” Seriously, no matter what kind of sex you’re looking to have, DO NOT use porn as a reference. I was told this many times as I reached adulthood, once from an actual porn star. I learned it the hard way once, and without going into detail it didn’t end well. People right now are yelling about how fan fiction writers are promoting bad sex practices through their fics, but it’s not a fan fiction writer’s job to teach anyone about sex. It’s the reader’s responsibility to do actual research before having real, actual sex. I know that for some forms of sex it’s more difficult to find resources, but literally anything is better than using porn as your primary resource.
Until sex ed is taught in a comprehensive and inclusive fashion all over the world, I will shout this from the fucking rooftops: DO. NOT. GET. YOUR. SEX. ED. FROM. PORN.
so, a tangentially related musing to my earlier outburst: i used to be a pretty big slash shipper in my late teens. I didn't write fic for those ships but devoured it regularly, mostly from anime fandoms where it was plentiful, though I went through a major Remus/Sirius phase at one point. one common thread through all of them was the minimizing of female characters which occasionally veered into flagrant misogyny. i recall Gundam Wing fandom being particularly horrid about this in regards to Relena, a character i found annoying anyway, so when fics turned her into a screeching, scheming psychopath standing in the way of True Dude Love i was generally amused by it. my ship/fic tastes changed substantially in my 20s, and i'm sure that was at least partially due to overcoming my fear of exploring my sexuality instead of relying on fiction to do it for me. i've largely avoided slash fandoms for the last decade or so, but spending so much time in the SW/Reylo corner brought them back into view. the thing now isn't so much "lol let's make this female character into an unlikeable harridan to invalidate the het ship" as it is "let's paint her as a weak and defenseless child in need of protecting to invalidate the het ship," with a hearty side helping of concern trolling. the same misogyny is still there, it's just shifted forms. but now more than ever it seems to be about denying agency. it's not just about rendering "strong female characters" as weak and in need of protecting from male characters whose asses they've canonically kicked. it's about policing the fantasies of real women, of all colors and ages and sexualities, who want to write about those female and male characters in a relationship and are being told NO YOU CAN'T DO THAT IT'S PROBLEMATIC.
interesting how there are tons of posts by mlm calling out fujoshis (as they should be) for being gross but I have yet to see a single mlm criticize the gay porn industry which hurts real live humans...hmm....I wonder why...
Like I would understand the whole ‘being against straight women writing slash is misogyny’ angle if it wasn’t for that fact that a lot of fandom misogyny can and has come from straight women who write slash.
They’ll brutally kill off a female character, turn her into a bitch or flat out ignore her for the sake of a ship. And if the women is black? That’s a whole another can of worms.
As you likely know, Fansplaining is 100% Patreon-supported. We just posted Episode 133, “Slash: The Discourse,” early, for our patrons only! If you’d like to listen, pledge $3+ now! (It’ll come out soon for everyone else!)