#soren analysis

[thelogicofikeandsoren]

So let's recap:

Soren was abandoned, abused, sold to be abused more, left alone when his only guardian died with little to no communication ability, left for dead, separated from Ike, the one person who showed him kindness, for several years, witness to the aftermath of a bloody massacre, ostracized by passersby, reunited with Ike only to learn he didn't remember him at all, thrust into the forefront of two bloody wars where Ike was orphaned, almost murdered for speaking out of turn, convinced he will lose Ike forever due to his heritage, blackmailed into silence because of that same heritage... And these are just the things that always happened that he knows about!

We can also potentially add others depending on the situation:

If no RD A support, he could eventually have been left behind by Ike

He could have been wounded to the point he could never fight again

He could have seen Ike die and been unable to stop it

Assuming they spend the rest of their lives together AND live their natural lifespan, he would eventually see Ike grow old and die without him

Bonuses that he doesn't know and may never know:

Watched two of his own relatives die, possibly helped kill them, one of whom probably would have liked him IF he gave him a chance (big if, sadly)

Will never know the good relationships he could have had with one uncle and his grandfather

May never know the good relationships he could have had with his other uncle and mother

And honestly? Given this? It's a miracle that Soren is just highly neurotic, tactless, and prejudiced instead of evil, insane, or dead, let alone how much Ike has helped him get better between games and (hopefully) beyond.

[thelogicofikeandsoren]

When did Soren realize he loved Ike?

I believe with near certainty that Soren did fall in love with Ike almost immediately. However, there is an argument that he might not have realized he did right away, so what are some moments he may have noticed?

There are a few moments that make sense to me:

Before the game even started, during the backstory. This is a very plausible option, considering he searched for years for a person he met once. He has had a lot of time to ruminate that we just never see.

During the Path of Radiance A Support, specifically after Ike reassures him he's fine the way he is. If Soren didn't know before, there's a very good chance he does now, and not just because of the line they censored in the localization, but also because he cuts himself off and then immediately starts giving Ike even more information about himself that wasn't asked about. This also provides the catalyst for Soren to admit to Ike that he only wants to be with him (at least platonically).

I find it highly unlikely that he doesn't know at least by Radiant Dawn, given his blatant wedding vow A support line, his defensive non-denial to Micaiah's "accusation", and his dramatic response to Ike being about to compliment Aimee. Not to mention the line "my only wish was to see you again" which definitely made Ike realize the depths of his feelings, if he didn't earlier.

What I do believe is that he would have a very hard time believing that Ike loves him back, even after Ike realizes he does, and you can sort of see that in the last scene, where Soren's first assumption is that Ike is only trying to hug him out of pity and not because he loves him. And of course, at least before the Path of Radiance A Support, Soren is convinced that this relationship is more precarious than it is. That might also explain why he doesn't want other people to know about his feelings, or try to advance the relationship at any point on his own*, because that could lead to him losing the relationship he already has, which is still more than he could have hoped for.

*In fact, during one of his bond conversations with Alcryst in Engage, he states "If you expect a refusal, don't ask". Now, granted, Engage was written long after Radiant Dawn, so this may not be entirely accurate, but it does seem consistent with what else we know.

[thelogicofikeandsoren]

Alternatively, Soren is being truthful when he says liking and disliking don't matter in this context because he has such a huge blind spot for his own bias that he genuinely believes Ike is *objectively* the most perfect and amazing person who ever lived and that believing otherwise is equivalent to thinking 2+2=22.

No wonder he said Shinon was as dumb as a gnat, lmao.

[thelogicofikeandsoren]

From what I've seen so far, Soren really isn't mean to everyone in Engage. Just those who are giving him unsolicited advice (Stefans) and those who obnoxiously demand his attention (Skrimirs).

[thelogicofikeandsoren]

Knives vs. Staves: Soren's Personality

It's a no brainer that giving Soren staves is better for game utility, but when people want to base the choice off of his personality, they often go for knives.

I'm going to argue that choosing staves actually fits Soren's personality better in multiple parts:

What would go into Soren's choice of tool would be his motivations and priorities.

The way I see it, Soren's #1 priority in terms of motivation is: "Will this course of action help Ike survive?" And here we can see two outcomes:

Outcome A: Soren gets staves. In addition to the skilled combat he is still capable of due to his magic, he now has the ability to heal Ike if he gets hurt.

Outcome B: If Ike gets hurt, Soren can't do anything. But on the bright side, he can choose to get himself hurt instead. Or just continue to do magic, pretending he never got the knives.

Outcome A significantly improves the success of priority #1.

Now onto priority #2. Assuming Ike will not be in any danger, Soren's next motivation would be "what is the smartest course of action, regardless of people's feelings on the matter?"

Now the interesting thing about priority #2 is that by its very nature it matches with the better option for gameplay. Why are staves better for gameplay?

Soren is too weak to do any notable damage with knives

Soren puts himself in more immediate danger while trying to

As with #1, Soren can't do anything if Ike is hurt (or anyone else)

Soren would no doubt consider all of these factors himself, making staves better for priority #2 as well.

Ok, so assuming both of those priorities are fulfilled, Soren will now move onto priority #3: "what can limit my contact with untrustworthy people?"

Well, if Soren uses knives, he will have to face enemies 100% of the time. If Soren has staves, he can spend a good portion of his time with allies, or even just the core Greil Mercenaries, or even just Ike if it suits him. So staves win for priority #3.

Now, deep down, we might run into priority #4: "is this useful for getting back at those who hurt me?" But something I've noticed is that there's a tendency in the fandom to make Soren more vengeful than he is, similar to how they make Ike dumber or more obsessed with training. This priority is so low on the list, I'm not even certain it really exists.

I'll get back to that in a bit, but for now, let's assume priority #4 is in place. Knives will definitely be better than staves here, but with a massive caveat. Who hurt Soren the most? Dead people, civilians, laguz, enemies with absurdly high defenses and physical offensive power. Dead people are obviously not someone he will face, nor civilians. There are very logical reasons to use magic against laguz instead of knives even if his strength wasn't negligible, namely their race-related elemental weaknesses. And as for enemies with absurdly high defenses and physical offensive power? Soren shouldn't fight them at all if they can counterattack, and definitely not with a knife. More pertinently, Soren doesn't even recognize them (and vice versa), making the vengeance motive less relevant.

But then the other question is, just how vengeful is Soren anyway? He doesn't like people, especially laguz. He shows this by avoiding them, acting standoffish around them, and if he's really upset, insulting them. But even if it sparks a physical fight (which happens once), he's never the one to escalate it to violence.

Take the infamous fight between Soren and Lethe and Mordecai. Yes, Soren's comments were uncalled for, though as far as Soren was concerned, so were Lethe's, which is what caused the conflict in the first place. But it was Lethe who escalated the fight to violence by commanding Mordecai to kill Soren. Which Ike was clearly not ok with, jumping in front of the attack to protect him. Then, and only then, does Soren resort to violence. If anything, Soren seems surprisingly un-vengeful given everything he went through.

But there is a character who fills this niche people are looking for with Soren, and his name is Reyson. Reyson would absolutely choose to wield a knife if he could (or even if he couldn't).

[thelogicofikeandsoren]

Regarding the last reblog, this is getting into wmg territory, but given that Soren is well-read, if there's a historical counterpart of the furisode somewhere in Tellius, Soren may have discovered what it was and deliberately started dressing that way as another way of subtly declaring his intentions (in-universe, not just metaphysically), especially given that it's implied that he dressed that way for years before they "officially" became an item (per the art book, Ike didn't openly reciprocate until the final info scene, despite the amount of mutual tension).

Bonus: of all of the countries in Tellius, Goldoa is the most likely from sources of inspiration to have had such a tradition-not to mention, as the most isolated and neutral, least likely to have someone comment on its meaning-which may mean Soren was unintentionally continuing his cultural heritage.

If that is true... two new possibilities open up for Soren's expected time of promotion in Path of Radiance. (See next post)

[thelogicofikeandsoren]

Obviously Fire Emblem Heroes isn't canon in any way to any of the main series games (except maybe Awakening? Multiverse and time travel shenanigans etc.) BUT! If we assume this dialogue is an accurate representation of how Soren canonically believes Ike would react to Lehran's Medallion (i.e. that he would not, or would successfully fight off the reaction), that means Soren has more faith in the purity of Ike's heart than Ike himself, or even Greil, Ike's FATHER.

Aww.

[thelogicofikeandsoren]

Bond conversation updates with Soren:

Alcryst: in A level bond, Soren tells him not to ask for something if he expects a refusal... This means it's likely that Soren didn't ever ask Ike to advance their relationship until he gained enough confidence to expect acceptance.

Boucheron: Ok, maybe his advice wasn't that great in this specific instance after all. Because asking Soren for strategies not to get lost is like asking a gifted kid how to study for a test well enough to pass. So of course he goes for the extreme options of never going outside and having an escort at all times XD.

Etie: Deserves a gold star with "you tried" in comic sans and all lowercase letters. Clearly, she wants Soren to be happier, but has absolutely no idea what kinds of things would work to help that. Misreading "unathletic nerd" as "wants to put on muscle but can't" definitely doesn't help as Soren's just like ???