#spider gene

[fellowshipofthenoodles]

Meet Dizzy!

She is 6 years old, and we’re not completely sure on what exact morph this little lady is (we’re thinking lesser spider fire?), but she is part spider morph, and bears the classic spider markings that make the dominant spider gene so attractive to sellers and breeders. Spider morphs are a hugely popular sell, with people paying ridiculous amounts of money for them, and when you look at their beautiful patterns, it’s easy to see why. We don’t support spider breeding in this house, however; because even though spiders are stunning, the gene that makes their patterns so distinctive has a serious price to pay.

Dizzy, along with all other spider gene morphs with the spider patterning, has a neurological condition directly related to her patterning. This condition presents as head wobbles, and corkscrewing, where she can’t orient herself correctly and struggles to control her body, causing her to end up twisting upside down uncontrollably, losing balance, and being unable to tell up from down. Sadly, Dizzy very much displays the spider neurological symptoms. These symptoms can get worse as the snake gets older, and can also be exacerbated by poor husbandry, stress, excitement etc. This can make her very sensitive to small changes in her environment, and can make feeding harder.

Spider morphs can live full and happy lives, but even with perfect husbandry and care, they can deteriorate, sometimes rapidly, and need to be euthanised.

We were offered the chance to take her on by her current owner (who also rescued her and adores her), as she doesn’t have the right amount of space for her. The next stages are us getting her a set up and making sure that it’s got everything she needs to thrive and be the happiest noodle that she can be. Hopefully, Dizzy can live out her days happily without any major problems, with the best care we can give her.

[irwintheballpython]

Irwin and the Spider Gene

I thought I would adress this topic since it has recently come up in the ball python community once again. Apparently certain parts of the UK have banned the sale of Ball Pythons with the Spider gene.

I was not aware that this was an issue they were willing to work to fix.

The way I see it the Spider “Wobble” and balance issues that come with it are an issue— although one that ranges wildly between snakes. Some, like Irwin (my Banana Bee), have a minor wobble and barely noticeable unless you were looking for it. Other snakes have it to the point where it messes with their ability to eat. I wasn’t sure of my stance on this issue until recently. Let me clarify before I state my thoughts...I bought Irwin BEFORE I had heard anything even remotely negative about the gene/morph.

Now, my opinion. I think of the gene issue in the same way I think of certain dog breed issues. Take for example the English Bulldog. These dogs in their pure bred form live terrible lives, full of sickness, and major health issues. I hate the fact that people breed these dogs knowing their life will be shorter and full of pain and suffering as they struggle to breathe past their smooshed in faces.

If the Spider gene Wobble was as severe as that I would oppose it more strongly. As it stands now, with the information avaliable to me it seems as though this morph of snake DOES have neurological issues. But not to the point where every snake with the Spider gene suffers life shortening health problems. Irwin is a voracious eater, his behavior is well within the norms, he handles well, his head is just a little wobbly. In my opinion I see no issue with Breeders using the Spider gene in conjunction with other genes. As for pure Spider Morphs, the jurry is still out for me. I probably have bias due to the fact my Spider morph pet is a very mild case.

If you are looking for your first Ball Python I would err on the side of caution and stay away from the Spider morph. The last thing a new owner needs is a snake with neurological problems that were undisclosed. There are plenty of other morphs to choose from!

If you have any questions or if you would like to know where I am getting my information feel free to message me and I will provide you with links.

-🐍

[mossdeep-archive]

a little psa since i know a lot of my mutuals love reptiles

please, please stay away from spider ball pythons (or morphs that come from breeding a spider)

basically a morph is what comes from breeding different mutations until you get beautiful patterns. there are plenty of healthy and happy morphs like pastels, blue eyed lucys, bananas, and many more! but the spider gene causes a head wobble, a neurological condition that causes the snake to have trouble keeping upright, eating, and ofcourse, a mild to severe head wobble.

a lot of people seem to think that the head wobble is no big deal, but it can really harm the snake. ball pythons are shy creatures and can be very finicky with food. a head wobble can cause the snake to miss-strike and hit the tank. too many misses and the python will reject its food. i've also seen spiders, because of their inability to judge if they're right-side-up or not, nearly drown in their water bowl.

also, we don't know what the snake is feeling or thinking. we as caretakers and breeders need to be responsible and if we know a morph can cause a snake neurological damage, then we shouldn't continue supporting breeders that care more about the cash than the welfare of their animals.

like this... this isn't normal snake behavior. a snake shouldn't be all twisted and upside down. if i turned my snake belly up, she would instinctively fix herself. i shouldn't have to explain why a snake going belly up is a bad thing.

i see posts all the time about responsible breeding of dogs and cats, and how pugs and munchkins have health problems, but i've yet to see a post about the spider gene (not saying that there isn't, its just not as common as the former).

as always, please do your research into any animal before you make that commitment. especially snakes and other reptile morphs. thank you 💕🐍💕

[crystalsncats]

May I ask (approximately, if youre not comfortable with giving the exact price) how much you paid for Theodasia? My favorite ball pythons are the banana ball pythons and Theodasia is GORGEOUS! Im saving up to be able to get one someday and im curious about other (still banana) options. 😊

She definitely cost a pretty penny! She has three genes (banana/pastel/pinstripe) so she was more expensive. Female banana ball pythons are also more rare due to a genetic mutation that messes with the male to female hatchling ratio, meaning that most banana ball pythons are male.

There are definitely more affordable options for banana balls! I’ve seen male bananas on morphmarket for as low as $150 plus shipping. They get more pricey the more genes that they have, but there are definitely more affordable ones! Just know that female bananas may be much more expensive because of the genetic mutation. I would really recommend looking through morphmarket to get an idea of what you would be interested in. There are so many unique morphs and they’re all so beautiful.

I would also advise you to be wary of spider, champagne, and woma morphs (there are more, but these are the main ones I am aware of). They all have a neurological disorder called “wobble” which affects their balance and some other aspects of ball python life. It is a very controversial issue within the exotic pet community, and I wouldn’t ever tell someone to not buy a wobbler, but it is something that I think everyone should think about. I personally do not think it is ethical to breed animals with a known neurological disorder, but opinions differ.

Most ball pythons with the wobble disorder still thrive in captivity, but you cannot breed out the disorder and there is no guarantee of how severe the wobble may be in any particular animal. It can get better or worse as the animal ages. I would never discourage someone from purchasing any of these morphs to keep as a pet. I would just suggest looking up videos of the ball python wobble to prepare yourself if you are considering purchasing one. I personally feel really sad and uncomfortable when I see ball pythons corkscrewing and just not recognizing up from down so I don’t know if I could ever own a wobbler because it would hurt ME to see my baby struggling to find their way. Again, this is just my opinion. I do think it is important to know about different morphs and the genetic issues that may ensue, though! 💛

[amazeballs-herps-blog]

Why are you breeding morphs known to be strongly linked to neurological issues?

I assume you’re referring to the spider gene, in which case the answer is because they’re beautiful and contrary to popular belief, their quality of life isn’t any noticeably less than a normal’s in the vast majority of cases. For every YouTube video posted of a spider corkscrewing, I could show you five more spiders who don’t even so much as bob. It’s a non-issue that’s been massively blown out of proportion imo. Especially since a lot of the people who complain have never even owned a spider before. Someone claiming that a creature they have no experience with has no quality of life is a little presumptuous isn’t it?

That being said, we have never exactly kept our love of the spider gene secret, even in the face of opposition. If you’re referring to something else you’ll have to be more specific, because as far as I know, we don’t have any other genes that are linked to neurological issues. Speaking of which, how do you feel about champagnes? Champagnes are known wobblers as well, yet everyone focuses on spiders. Why? In some instances, they seem even more popular than spiders, but I never see anyone complaining that they shouldn’t exist. There are other genes as well, but none of them catch the amount of flack that spiders do. Just some food for thought.

[i-m-snek]

Matt Huck

Here is the Super Spider Figure I'd post this since this seems to be coming up more often.This is documented on ball-pythons.net, but here's the summery. The mostly white snake you are looking at is...

Warning: Death mention and dead animal pics!! For those who follow the spider gene, there has always been a rumor of a ‘super spider’ that would never come to term, die in the egg, or that the eggs would just go back or be slugs. Well, someone did a spider X spider pairing and the super came to nearly full term, then died.  Please don’t post any negativity on this dudes post, but I believe if the homozygous version of the gene you are breeding is fatal 100% of the time, you need to re-evaluate your morals. ESPECIALLY if the single gene by itself already has neuro issues -.-

[crestedcrazy]

@wheremyscalesslither when someone in the facebook groups posts a carpet with a neuro issue and spiders are (naturally) brought up but people still defend breeding them/say that not all have it :) :) :) :) (The one that rlly made me mad was the one guy who said that even those with severe wobble can breed babies w/out it... as if anyone who cared about the snake would breed if it had a severe wobble. Yay)

[hempsacat]

"Got to hold my first male spider bp today at the store I get my feeders from and he was beyond sweet had a pretty good wobble and now I see why everyone likes them so much he was beautiful and the wobble gave him a personality. Please show me some spiders" Omg whaaaaat