#srmcd1

[thestupidhelmet]

What do you think some of the gang's favorite shows would be from later decades? Like, I always imagine Eric and Donna (and maybe Hyde) being into Mystery Science Theater 3000

Eric, Donna, Fez, Hyde, and Kelso would love MST3K! And Jackie wouldn't get it, so after one episode, she'd be out. Fez would need help getting all the references. Kelso would try to out-joke the MST3K gang, which would stop once Eric tells him to stop or leave. But Hyde, Eric, and Donna (and sometimes Fez) would make good jokes, pissing off Kelso since he has to stay quiet.

This event is called The Great and Terrible MST3K Friendship-Disruption.

Since these are show all (or most) of the T7S gang would watch together, that's how I'm approaching this question. 😊

Shows that began airing in 1980 through today.

Elvira's Movie Macabre

The Fall Guy

The Greatest American Hero (one episode because of Eric's insistence)

The People's Court

SCTV Network 90

Simon & Simon

Cagney & Lacey (the guys are not averse to watching female-led shows, as evidenced by them watching Laverne & Shirley; Donna and Jackie have to watch plenty of male-led shows since that was the majority for so long)

Cheers

Knight Rider

The A-Team

Candid Camera (1983; the show was on TV in different iterations over many decades)

Love Connection (to make fun of it, but Jackie gets into the show -- and gets pissed often at who picks whom for their "love connection)

Press Your Luck

V (1983 miniseries)

WWF (WWE) All American Wrestling (but Eric, Kelso, and Fez would be the only ones who continued to watch it faithfully; Donna recognizes it as a soap opera for men; Hyde knows it's fake and can't stand the inauthenticity; Jackie simply finds it stupid).

Night Court

MacGyver

Star Trek: The Next Generation

Max Headroom

Remote Control

The Tracy Ullman Show

Murphy Brown

American Gladiators (at least for a season)

Baywatch (the guys)

MTV Unplugged (specific episodes)

Quantum Leap

Seinfeld

The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air

In Living Color

The Simpsons

Herman's Head

The Jerry Springer Show (for a while, but boredom would set in at the repetitiveness)

The Ben Stiller Show

The Real World (a season or two; abject curiosity)

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

The X-Files ("The truth is out there, man!")

ER (for a while)

The Drew Carey Show

Martin

Sliders

Star Trek: Voyager

Xena: Warrior Princess

3rd Rock from the Sun

VH1 Storytellers (specific episodes)

Ally McBeal (although the show might confuse the T7S gang at first)

The Kids in the Hall

Freaks and Geeks (a lot to unpack there because of the real-life situation concerning that show and T7S; but I'm sticking to fiction)

The Iron Chef

The Sopranos

BattleBots

Survivor

MythBusters

Lost

Whose Line Is It Anyway?

The Bachelor (the premier episode at Jackie's insistance)

Battlestar Galactica (2004)

Dirty Jobs

Boston Legal

House

Grey's Anatomy (but it's endless, soapy nature would eventually exhaust their interest)

The Office (American TV series)

The Wire

30 Rock

And so many more into the modern day of streaming.

[thestupidhelmet]

Do you have a favorite “silly” moment between the characters? Like, no drama or “burns”, just them being goofs? Mine is the “Rabbit Season, Duck Season” moment between Eric and Hyde in the deer hunting episode. One of those little moments where they’re totally in sync and you can tell they’re friends lol

So many. The background moments between two characters in the basement playing a game while the actual scene takes place in the foreground, for example. The director recognized different planes in the field of view, and he didn't waste them.

But that's more general. As for specific moments, I don't want to list one from each episode during S1-S7 (😅), so I'll pick a few that pop into my head.

"The Keg" (S1): Kelso and Hyde waking up from their nap in the back of the Vista Cruiser. They'd cut class(es), and their presence jump-scares Donna and Eric who are also cutting class(es). This short but significant moment is a rare depiction of what Hyde and Kelso's friendship was like pre-Jackie. A fading vestige.

Any number of Jackie and Donna scenes where they're just hanging out -- and not talking about their romantic relationships.

Eric showing off his new car speakers and rocking out on the hood of the Vista Cruiser

The gang playing "air instruments" in the basement.

Kelso helping Hyde get his newly-given El Camino road ready (it's a very short moment, but it demonstrates their friendship, especially since Kelso wanted that car for himself).

Hyde, Fez, and Jackie playing Monopoly.

And so on.

[thestupidhelmet]

Here’s a silly question - if each character was a Muppet, which one would they be? Like, I’ve always thought Eric is Kermit and Hyde is Rowlf. Red is Waldorf, but I don’t know who would be his Statler…

Not silly. In the early days of this blog, I made a post about this exact question. I deleted it many years ago.

These choices are based in personality, not physical appearance.

Eric: Kermit

Jackie: Miss Piggy

Hyde: Sgt. Floyd Pepper

Donna: Red (Fraggle Rock)

Fez: Gonzo

Kelso: Animal

Red: Sam Eagle

Kitty: Mokey (Fraggle Rock)

Bob: Fozzy Bear

[thestupidhelmet]

At what point do you consider a character's negative action the character's fault or the writer's fault?

Failure of writing when the negative action (or reaction):

Conflicts with a character's well-established personality and behavior.

Isn't prepared for by the narrative over several episodes (to substantiate the action/reaction that conflicts with a character's well-established personality and behavior).

For example, Donna's behavior and subsequent attitude toward Eric in "Backstage Pass" (3x24) would be OOC if eleven episodes, starting with "Radio Daze" (3x14), hadn't done the groundwork. Those episodes show Donna and Eric's relationship slowly deteriorating and why. By the time of "Backstage Pass," Donna's had enough of Eric's insecurity-driven need for control stifling her independence and pursuit of her career goals. So her passive-aggressive treatment of him and subsequent statements that she was justified in making him wait hours for her and, moreover, feels no remorse over it is earned.

That storyline was forged elegantly by putting character first.

Hyde's cheating / retaliation sex / using sleeping with the nurse as a way to end his relationship with Jackie in S5 is bad writing. It conflicts with his well-established characterization, and it's not foreshadowed in S5 that he'd ever consider doing such a thing. When he breaks up with Jackie in "Babe, I'm Gonna Leave You" (5x14), Hyde breaks up with Jackie swiftly and directly. That sets a precedent on top of what else is already consistently depicted throughout the series:

Hyde's father (Bud) cheated on his mother and ran out on both of them (significant childhood wounding).

Hyde actively tries to get Kelso to trip up and reveal his cheating to Jackie / to get Jackie to catch Kelso cheating on him with Laurie ("Van Stock" [2x06]).

Hyde states that he hates a hypocrite.

Hyde's negative attitude on cheating is stated and demonstrated too many times to list.

Hyde confronts; he doesn't run.

The writers knew they were manipulating Hyde to serve plot, so they used Roy to represent the audience and have him ask Hyde if he'd talked to Jackie [about what Hyde saw in the Pinciotti living room] -- because that's exactly what an in-character Hyde would do. He might preliminary say, "That's it. We're done," before Jackie and/or Kelso explains that Jackie was comforting Kelso because Fez had a sex dream about him.

But Hyde's response to Roy is the writers' hand-waving explanation for Hyde's OOC behavior: "No! Come on, man. I'm done talkin'!"

Sure, Jan Hyde.

Hyde's behavior breaks the fictional dream, and that short dialogue exchange can't explain (away) Hyde acting against his nature.

I don't like how Donna treats Eric in "Radio Daze," but I accept it because it makes character sense by the time it happens.

I don't like Hyde's choices in "You Shook Me," but had his character undergone deep psychological changes where he believes cheating is okay under certain circumstances, I'd accept his choices.

Granted, S5 intensifies his sporadic passive-aggressive tendencies and makes them an active part of his psyche -- and his actions in "You Shook Me" are the ultimate expression of that passive-aggressiveness. But even then, this is a personality change without explanation or buildup. It's also a trait that reverts back to its original, far weaker state once S5 is over. More manipulation of character to serve plot.

[thestupidhelmet]

How different do you think the series would’ve been if Eric had been an only child?

(I ask because it occurred to me that sometimes I forget Laurie exists lol)

The obvious: no tension between Eric and Laurie so less tension in that regard between Eric and Red.

Eric's childhood would've been more peaceful. At the same time, he might not have learned how to deal with contentiousness from an early age. His verbal-emotional battles with Laurie prepared him to deal with other people who might treat him with the same contempt. So he'd have become a total pushover, especially with Red's parenting style.

Once Eric turns thirteen (in canon), he starts individuating (as is part of puberty). His sarcastic " smart mouth" is his tool. He might not have developed that sarcasm without Laurie's hostility toward him (an expression -- and displacement -- of her resentment at no longer being an only child).

Then again, Eric's dynamic with Red could be enough to temper him like a sword by the time he's a teen. But his rebellion might be more sneaky and manipulative than direct and sarcastic. Ironically, he might become more like Laurie in terms of deviousness. Eric would become a very practiced liar ... which would harm his other relationships in the future.

Kitty and Laurie's relationship is also contentious but honest. Laurie clearly loves her mom and supports her at times. Without her, Kitty also might be more of a pushover.

Outside of the family, no Laurie means Kelso not having a many-years' crush on Laurie. Whom he'd fixate his pubescent hormones on instead can't be known. He'd still cheat on Jackie but with someone -- or several someone's -- else. Because he's a sex addict and pathologically impulsive.

No Laurie means no extra provocation for Red to kick Hyde out of the house in "Reefer Madness" (3x01). That doesn't mean he wouldn't, but Laurie pushes for it.

No Laurie means Fez gets deported.

Ultimately, Laurie is an agent of chaos and malevolence, who eventually turns into an agent of benevolence and support (and she'd have remained that way had T7S continued her storylinewith Fez despite the recast in S6). Her absence from the T7S universe would create a vacuum with negative to neutral consequences for the other characters.

[thestupidhelmet]

What do you think of Eric majoring in film or something? Star Wars obsession aside, he actually seems to appreciate movies in general. Casablanca, Annie Hall, Close Encounters, Smokey and the Bandit, etc. I actually like to think that after seeing The Omen, he and Donna went to see All The President's Men like she wanted.

So maybe this could translate to taking an interest in the movie making process, like Film and Video Production. I could see him getting his friends to act in a student film co-written by him and Donna.

I think that would be awesome. Breaking into the film industry, especially as a writer-director though, is extremely difficult. As Andy Wood (of Mother Love Bone) sings in "Crown of Thorns," it's all who you know.

Eric being a white male in the early '80s gives him a leg-up. Being a woman (and other non cis-male genders), breaking into the film industry as a writer-director or "just" director is damn near impossible. It was in the 1980s, 1990s, 2000s, through today. Especially without connections.

Breaking into the TV industry today as a non-cis-male is easier but still tough.

[thestupidhelmet]

Suppose the showrunners for S8 (the same ones or different ones) didn't capitulate to Wilmer Valderama's demands for Fez to be reinvented and paired with Donna or Jackie. Do you think he would've stayed? And if not, how do you think Fez would've been written out on top of Eric and Kelso's departures?

He held out quite a while during contract negotiations (and he was there last one to sign on to S8), so no.

Fez might've gone back to his home country (OOC for him but maybe just for a visit -- in Point Place, a whole show season can take place over only three months 👀). Or he went to college. Or he followed Kelso to Chicago.

[thestupidhelmet]

If you were creating a new character to fill the gap for Season 8, what kind of character would you have made? Or would you have made on at all?

If it were an in-character S8, Eric would remain a character through various techniques. A few storylines could be built around him, like the gang trying to figure out what birthday present to send him. He'd send letters that other characters would read aloud, and we'd see Eric from the neck down in these scenarios. Wouldn't have been difficult to keep him in the show with some imaginative writing and direction.

I'd bring back Rhonda as a regular (since this scenario gives me magical powers 😄).

Charlie's a footnote in T7S. I wouldn't kill him off but send him somewhere that'll make him happy.

Since J/H would be engaged in this season 8, we'd get storylines that demonstrate the contrast between their relationship and Red and Kitty's.

Significant development of Hyde and W.B.'s relationship rather than just punchlines. Angie in a few episodes for proper relationship development with Hyde (finally).

So, no, a new character wouldn't be needed.