#stara light

[zenosanalytic]

Terezi and Dirk: Mindful of Heart

stara-light said:

Now that Homestuck is just about wrapped up, do you have any continued thoughts on Dirk/Terezi and the Heart/Mind dichotomy? I see that you wrote a piece about it back in 2013 that you bailed on a bit early due to feels, maybe that would be a nice place to start?

Oh yeah; This Thing! Jeez that was like one of the first things I ever wrote on Heart ^u^

I think that post holds up pretty well, though obviously we’ve learned more about them since then :T I don’t know if I’d really call it a Dichotomy though; for it to be a dichotomy they’d have to be in discrete opposition to one another. I think it’d be more accurate to say that Heart and Mind, like all the Aspects, coexist as part of a unified and incestuous whole. This Aspect might “oppose” this other Aspect along one axis, and another Aspect along still another, but it will also borrow from and merge with them at other places within other concepts and along other axes. The Aspects might be said to “balance each other out” or “take an opposite perspective” on one specific feature of reality, but this isn’t in the sense of opposition; of two equal yet opposite forces on separate ends of a see-saw, maintaining an uneasy stalemate between them through competition. Rather it’s something closer to the concept of Yin and Yang; the water can hit you like a rock and the earth can flow beneath your feet because “hardness” and “softness” or “water” and “earth” do not actually exist in tension with one another, but rather are inseparable, interrelated expressions of a deeper and unitary reality. The apparent duality is an illusion of perspective; each contains the other at all times, and it is merely a question of circumstance which attribute is displayed in the moment, creating the semblance of opposition.

I wrote that back when Terezi’s depression was a lot murkier and before her emotional dependence on Vriska and relationships in general had really been explored, and I think that in particular adds another very real aspect to the whole “Mind-as-Heart” idea; assuming that Heart -both through self and thus the traits and properties a person is born with and through its symbolic connection to Feeling and Emotion- touches on psychology and how people feel about themselves, Terezi’s depression is a powerful example of how one’s emotional and psychological experience can impact one’s self-image. Heart’s connection to romance has been pretty apparent since Dirk inexplicably Pulled Out the Shipping Maths when talking to Caliborn(thereby showing Nepeta’s ship-interest to not be a one-off) and the “Mind-as-Heart” dynamic plays out in Terezi here, too; in both Gamzee and Vriska(and likely also Karkat and Dave, given her John-born Message to herself), Terezi turns to Romance in an attempt to distract from and “fix” her Depression-caused problems with Self-esteem and Feeling. In effect, she tries to fix her Depression(Mind) through Romance(Heart), inevitably leading her into unhealthy, self-sabotaging relationships (:(

The same could be said, in reverse, for Dirk; for all his ego Dirk’s “dispassionate” self-analysis is a rather negative one, and he uses that to justify callousness towards himself and his splinters(most notable AR) both. So his intellect, expressed through a “Heart of Mind”, creates difficulties for him not only in the way it preferences/confuses his persona over/with expressing how he truly feels, but also through those Hearty feelings themselves; Dirk’s own restless Mind never leaves him alone, always picking away at his flaws, misdeeds, and mistakes, and thus filling his Heart with hostility and disgust towards himself. And I’d say this “Heart of Mind” works in a third way too, one actually Foreshadowed and Visualized In HS; Bro’s Satirical-yet-Sincere Bro persona is also a commentary on/homage to machismo-ridden “Warrior Code” Self-as-Sword philosophizing, and as with a too-rigid, unbending sword, Dirk’s ego-driven self-abuse and unrealistic expectations can lead his Self to Shatter under extreme pressure. And that’s not the only way in which his Mindy Heart via a very restless Brain and egotism sabotages Dirk; you see something similar in how his insecurity over his romance with Jake drives his controlling, smothering behavior, which in turn poisons that romance and drives Jake away (:( (:(

of course, going back to the point I made about Aspects at the top, you could just as easily switch the “Heart as Mind” and “Mind as Heart” analyses between the two and it’d probably work just as well :p Which, you know, is a good example of what I’m talking about with the whole “the Aspects contain each other” bit, and the murky ground you get on when thinking about Heart and Mind within their context as parts of Personality, and perspectives on Psychology. In certain ways Ego -as the “Concept of Self”- is very much tied to Heart, but in others Ego -as the Persona Presented by the Mind to deal with the World, and as the Self-as-Actor- is very much tied to Mind. So not only would I maintain, as I argued in that older post, that Terezi and Dirk’s expression of their Aspects are very much examples of how personal preferences, dispositions, interests, and struggles can influence one’s expression of Aspect away from what might seem “conventional” through “Aspect-Mirroring”, I’d also add that the very way they do this is an example of how interconnected, merged, and not opposed the Aspects are as a whole uwu uwu

[scalematey]

stara-light replied to your post:okay so i completely forgot that its speak your...

I didn’t know you were from Singapore! (Or at least exposed to it enough to know singlish) Wow, cool. I love it there

yeyeye

pretty much everyone here is exposed to singlish thoooough like some way or another the words find their way into your vocabulary and you start using them like its just liddat

...amazingly most of the phrases that i know are swears or just general incoherent screaming or common phrases like chope and saikang

[zenosanalytic]

Reply-Reply to Stara-Light: True, True

stara-light replied to your post:Upd8 Analysis&Spec: 5/1/15 Upd8

woah, i don’t think that was saying davekat isn’t presently a thing. i got the feeling “hey maybe this is an awkward topic right after karkat just made a big deal of TOTALLY BEING OVER YOU and also we don’t wanna be sappy babies probs idk.”

Yeah it could also be that; like I said I was getting down my immediate reactions and I didn’t take the time to consider other interps u_u

[zenosanalytic]

Ask Reply to Stara-Light: Heir to a Lonely Heart

stara-light said:

How would an Heir of Heart player function in a period of isolation from friends, basically other Souls and Interests, if they operate more as a mimicking type? Would there be anything to learn there, or would first priority be to gather who they can around them to continue healthy growth? According to your interpretation, of course~

That really depends on them and the story you want to tell *segaly nodding*

A situation like that could force them, someone who often relies on mimicry, to start looking to themselves and their own reserves, skills, and reasoning. By being so isolated, they could begin to learn who they really are and what they really want.

Or, they could fall back on their memories of their Friends, and the skills they learned from them. By really thinking deeply about who their Friends are, and the wider implications of the things they've said and done, the Heir of Heart could gain a deeper appreciation and understanding of who those Friends are, and from that a clearer idea of their why they want to "win" The Game and what that really means to them(as well as getting a fuller picture of what they theirself are capable of).

Or it could be a mix of the two. The Heir could focus on getting back to their Friends and what their Friends would do, and in the process start to apply their "mimicry" in new, unique ways their Friends would never have considered, and only later would the Heir realize all that they've learned about theirself through that trial.

Or, since they are an Heir of Heart and Heirs exhibit the power to Embody and Summon their Aspect, maybe the Heir's desire to have their Friends near would be so powerful and Heartfelt that they would magic up Heart-Clones, like Jake's Brain-Ghost-Splinter of Dirk. These could then act as guides for them, telling the Heir what they already subconsciously know and helping them realize the power in their self, through the sort of advice and aid the Heir's concept of those Friends would give.

Or, since Heirs exhibit the ability to Communicate and Influence through their Aspect, the Heir of Heart's feelings of isolation, being trapped, and yearning for their Friends could awaken this new ability, allowing them to "Heart-Speak" to their Friends, allowing them to "Heart-Seek" the Heir out :3 In a similar way, John has shown an ability to Travel through/like Breath, so it's possible the same feelings of frustration and separation could help the Heir of Heart, who typically borrows from and mimics others, to unlock this power, Heart-Transporting them to the person they most miss(or maybe this could work in conjunction with that Friend's Role Abilities to accomplish the same thing).

I think there are a lot of ways that could play out :)

[hakureiryuu]

Thank you for your thoughts on the upd8. What's funny is that I agreed with your train of thought until it happened, and then Hussie's lack of grace (probably accenting how wrong this'll feel for a bit) kinda catapulted me away in disgust. But thanks!! You're a good Seer of Heart

oh gosh thank u! probably the easiest way to get past the lack of grace (that has honestly been evident throughout most of the comic) is to remember what this would look like to an archival reader. everything from Game Over to now could be read in, like, a couple of hours. maybe even less. when looked at this way, you realize that there's not as much being retconned out as you think.

of course, there's no knowing what an alive Vriska would get up to on the meteor, but... now that i consider it, she COULD theoretically just do a lot of the same stuff she did while dead, since the meteor passes through dreambubbles so often. Tavrisprite is out, which means Jane must have prototyped something else, but apart from that, she could still wreak some serious havoc out in the void AND potentially develop the way she was meant to. assuming the two aren't mutually exclusive? ARGH let's just wait for the update that archival readers would already be reading by now without thinking all these complicated thoughts!

one last thing though: homestuck has always made a point of introducing thousands of doomed timelines and nullifying them, but still having them mean something - whether it's to the alpha timeline's progression, to the story itself in the form of themes to be repeated, or just to the readers. even if it gets retconned, nothing that happened here was pointless or meaningless. knowing how a character reacts in one scenario is frequently critical to understanding them in another. i don't know where all this is going just yet, but i'm pretty confident it'll be awesome!

[zenosanalytic]

Prospit, Heart, and Sincere Lies

stara-light said:

i was thinking. the heart players we know are all derse, and have self-splintering/mimicking as a theme. do you think this is a good example of insincerity telling their truth? these fragments surely aren't the player really, but their existence pretty straightforwardly tells that the player is broken. and maybe could you talk about how a prospit heart player may go about things according to "sincerity telling lies"? thanks!'

I lament the loss of your excellent Avatar Icon that results from copy-pasta-ing this over to a new doc rather than answering form the Inbox, but I felt an answer to this would be title-worthy, so the sacrifice was made u_u Know, however, that I find your rainbow-cat incredibly cute ^u^

So to the first question; Yes, I would call it a good example of that! I wouldn't say the mimicking is definitive proof of Heart-Players being "broken", as Nepeta's roleplaying and tone-adapting seems generally healthy to me even if it sometimes masks how insightful she can be[1], but as an example of insincerity or artifice exposing their Truths rather than hiding them(in this case, Nepeta's intense interest in who other people are), it definitely flies ^u^ One could imagine a Thief, Rogue, or Maid of Heart who wasn't as secure in their own identity, mimicking, borrowing, and adapting to others in unhealthy way, however :(

Splintering is a much stronger metaphor for self-destruction and Dirk's is most certainly self-destructive(I mean you're literally breaking yourself apart, and Dirk literally keeps creating versions of himself that abhor their limited existences to the point that the desire to escape them either compromises their Morality and Friendships[Lil'Hal], or makes them Want to Die) but, as a purely theoretical matter, I'd like to think it's possible for Heart Heroes(and others manifesting similar abilities) to multiply, copy, clone, and mirror themselves without it being necessarily self-destructive. There could be certain situations where even splintering could be useful or healthy[2] I'd imagine; if undertaken for healthier reasons and in healthier ways than Dirk undertook some of his. I'd say that whether it shows brokenness or not would be a case by case basis; you'd need to look and see if the Splinters resent their existence and the "creator" who gave it to them, and how that "creator" relates to them. A Heart Hero who gives their splinters/clones/copies/reflections freedom, trust, and the ability to act upon their own will wouldn't necessarily be engaging in self-destruction(unless there were notable negative outcomes for the Prince, Bard, Witch, or Maid of Heart doing it; for instance, loss of emotions or vitality, which would raise slightly different moral issues), where as one with a combative, denying relationship to their Splinters, and who places severe limits upon them(in Dirk's case, Lil'Hal being trapped in the Glasses and as Code, and in for Jake's Dirkbot him having to conform to his programming and lacking anyway to communicate directly), would likely be self-destructive.

On the second question of how a Prospit-Dreamer might express similar Heart abilities, I could certainly share some brain-storming :) The first way that occurs to me would be something similar to how I read John, but more self-aware; someone who is deeply self-critical and neurotic, maybe even a uni- or bi-polar depressive, or perhaps an ADHD sufferer. John hides his issues from himself as much as he does from others but by "more self-aware" I don't necessarily mean that the Heart Hero would acknowledge their illness; plenty of folks with psych issues will admit the difficulties they have but refuse to label them as symptoms, considering them moral failings instead. This sort of Heart Hero could be like this; playing up sides of themselves they approve of(their supportiveness, positivity, humor, and dedication, perhaps) to project a facade that masks their exhaustion and self-cruelty, discourages scrutiny, and "keeps others from worrying" -maybe even openly mentioning their difficulties as flaws, or characteristic "quirks" and mistakes- while admitting to themselves that it's much more serious than they let on[3].

Another way you could take it would be them using their Interests to mask their Feelings. So if they liked Games, and have been hiding their romantic interest in a Friend, then that Friend gets involved with someone else, they might use this legitimate interest as an "in" for trying to monopolize that Friend's time and attention(though this would have to be rather subtle; not something like Dave's rambling chatlogs that practically scream "I THINK YOU'RE REALLY COOL AND I'D LIKE SOME ATTENTION FROM YOU PLEASE THANK YOU VALIDATION IS NICE"[just for the record, yes, I am teasing, but only because I find this intensely lovable u_u]). They might also go the other way; if faced with a defeat or failure they might bury themselves in their interests, sincerely pouring all of their focus and drive unto them to avoid thinking of what's bothering them. A Prospit-Dreaming Heart Hero might use very accurate and sincerely(though perhaps crossly or fickly) meant mimicry to convince their listeners of falsehoods -to believe they are more or less capable than they are, or better or worse than they are in a moral sense- or mimic the emotional expressions of others to convince them that the Heart Hero is feeling something different from what they really are. More positively, all of this could be used against their Foes; the Heart Player may weaponize their talent for Sincerity to infiltrate the Dersite Organization and help destroy it from within :) :)

The difference in Splintering, I think, would be mostly in intent. Like, Dirk's early stance towards Lil'Hal was fundamentally and obviously hypocritical; he felt he needed to keep Lil'Hal on all the time because turning him off would be limiting and cruel, but he cruelly limited him when he brain-cloned his 13-yr-old self into a pair of computerized shades, and that Lil'Hal first choses a name to Jake suggests that Dirk never seems to have bothered to ask Hal what he'd prefer to be called. A Prospit Heart Hero doing the same would go about their justifications in a different way, I think. They might be more outwardly hostile to the idea of their Splinter being their own person, or they might take a very functional or instrumental approach to the Splinter's existence; hiding their personal moral condemnation behind an aggressive self-righteousness and defensiveness like Vriska. They might also hide their controlling and/or smothering treatment of the Splinter behind genuine solicitousness; using their honest worry as an excuse to limit the Splinter's freedom of action. Prospiters might also be more prone to off-load their emotional burdens on to Splinters; making them to help accomplish something they legitimately need to accomplish, but also sticking them with a big chunk of the Hero's negativity so the Hero can be(as they talk themselves into thinking) "who I Need to Be" for The Game. They might also be prone to tell "necessary lies", misleading Friends about their own situation or the dangers they will be running as part of a plan because they want to "protect" them.

More positive Splinterers might fraction up their interests and abilities to allow them to specialize and focus on a series of synchronized tasks and Quests, or send a Splinter to help back up each of their Friends, tailoring each one to that Friend's personalities and needs. You might also have a Prospiter who projects "Lion-Heartedness" by using Heart mimicry and Insight to mask their Fears. The positive bit to this would be them, eventually, revealing to others how scared they really are, all the time, and how they think bravery isn't so much not being afraid as doing what you think needs doing even when you're scared(hokey, I know u_u).

That was kind of a downer post I know (:/ I'm sure there are much more positive expressions out there, but my think-sponge is feeling a wee bit tuckered at the moment :T If you want to talk about the subject some more, shoot another ask my way :) :) :)

[1]Nepeta saw through Karkat's rough exterior to see the compassionate, caring person he was at Heart, and her talk with Jaspersprite shows she's wonderful at adapting her explanations to the circumstances of others to keep them comprehensible, and in light of that and recent revs about Terezi I wonder if her attempts to match then mellow out Terezi's roleplaying with her own weren't also an attempt to draw Terezi out from behind her own facades; there's really not enough evidence available in their very limited interactions to back that idea up though, I think.

[2]For instance, BrainGhost!Dirk is pretty consistently helpful, even if Jake also uses him to sabotage himself romantically and beat himself up, and the ability to be in two places at once could be as useful as the ability to experience different forms of life could be edifying and Freeing.

[3]Something that John hasn't really seemed comfortable doing for most of HS to me. He still might not be we really haven't seen enough to be totally sure; he's got a lot to do and using work as a distraction and excuse to ignore your issues is an ancient avoidance chestnut (:/ I do think his newly gained ability to compliment himself for things other than pranking is a good sign though :)