Submission: How do you think r+l=j will be handled in the books?
Hi, him-e! I appreciate the fact that you make an effort to parse through what the show’s given us in order to make more calculated predictions about what’s coming in the books. I’d like to ask, then—because I don’t recall you ever talking about it—how will r+l=j be handled in the books.
It’s a fairly accepted possibility in fandom that finding out about it will wreck Jon. And fair enough, it probably will, considering how much pride he takes from being Ned’s son. But then there’s the rub for me—a lot of people also expect Jon to be angry at Rhaegar and to revolt against his biological father by abandoning the role he was supposed to have in the WftD. That makes sense, it can be existentially terrifying to think that your actions are all a product of a prophecy and that you have no control over them. It’d also fit with the other five main characters, who will likely all be going through their own dark phases.
Here’s the part where I think we should take the show into consideration. What effect did r+l=j have on Jon, exactly? Mostly, none—I’d say it served as a catalyst for Dany’s downfall. Nothing was made to challenge Rhaegar’s character or actions, and the last season was the perfect place to do so, considering he’s Dany’s brother and almost every single aspect of Dany started being portrayed negatively. But sure, one could argue that the show isn’t good at handling psychological turmoil and that he’s Jon’s father too, and Jon must remain morally pure.
Still, I then think about the books. If GRRM intends to make Jon rebel against Rhaegar and what he stood for as part of the fandom believes, why didn’t he seed anything related to that yet? Anything that makes Rhaegar more challenging and least susceptible to idolization? Some examples of how he could’ve done this:
* GRRM could’ve shown Doran or Oberyn still angry at Rhaegar for leaving Elia behind. Instead, they both want to side with Viserys and later Daenerys without any (mentioned) reservations.
* GRRM could’ve had Ned thinking about the fucked up power dynamic between Rhaegar and Lyanna (less harshly than Robert, but still negatively), but instead Ned only thinks about how Rhaegar didn’t frequent brothels.
* GRRM could’ve had Dany have her view of Rhaegar be challenged the way her view of Aerys is being (slowly) challenged, instead she still thinks of him the same by the end of the fifth book.
* GRRM could’ve added a POV who is critical of Rhaegar’s actions, yet he added three in FeastDance who idolize him (JonCon, Cersei, Barristan).
And that’s not even mentioning how R/L was painted as straightforwardly romantic in the S7 finale, which may well be what GRRM does—if he doesn’t think Dany was raped by Drogo in the books, maybe he thinks R/L is an unproblematic love story, even if many have pointed out the consent issues. Finally, I don’t see his friend Arthur Dayne having his reputation challenged in any way in-universe for remaining with Rhaegar despite the fact that there is reasonable criticism to hold against him.
My question, then, is: isn’t it more likely that Jon’s problem with r+l=j lies with his relationships with Ned and Dany and not with Rhaegar?
Hi, thanks for your submission, and sorry it took me a while to answer! ;))
Using the show as an indicator for how the books will deal with things like this is very tricky—because, as you said, the show sucks at psychological insight, and character motivations are usually either grossly simplified or not taken into consideration at all (which, ironically, makes them seem even more obscure and complicated if you’re trying to analyze them. See: the entire debate on why Sansa didn’t tell Jon about the knights of the Vale back in season 6. The show simply didn’t address the reason why she didn’t tell Jon, because it wasn’t important to the plot, but the fandom—me included—tried to make sense of it nonetheless, with increasingly convoluted explanations. Was Sansa trying to throw Jon under the bus, and let him perish in the battle so she could be lady of Winterfell? But that clashes with her desperate attempts to convince Jon to delay the battle. Did she hope they could do without Littlefinger’s help until last minute? Was she afraid that Jon would’ve had the final say on how to use the Knights, had he known? Was she trying to prevent him from taking credit for the victory? And so on).
There’s also the fact that the show dealt very quickly and superficially with the Prince that was Promised and Azor Ahai prophecies, mostly via Melisandre’s cryptic catchphrases and more as an afterthought or book nod than as an organic part of the narrative. The prophecy was just not conveyed well in the show. We’ve hardly ever seen other characters grapple with its meaning, or experienced its importance in the context of Westeros’ slowly waking up to the threat of the White Walkers. So, if the bulk of book!Jon’s reaction to r+l=j is temporarily rejecting his supposed role in the PtwP prophecy, it makes sense that the show completely skipped it, just as it makes sense that it skipped the valonqar part in Cersei’s prophecy: it simply has no place in the show’s narrative as they devised it. There would be no point in having a major character angst about his role in a prophecy, if said prophecy is all but a namedrop whose significance remains largely unknown to the average viewer who hasn’t read the book.
So… is it possible that in the books resurrected!Jon will go through a phase of complete rejection and denial of his heroic destiny, that will climax with the reveal of his parentage and a major identity crisis? Yes, totally. It’s exactly the mix of complex character study + mystical/magical stuff that I can see d&d scrapping in favor of a more materialistic, down to earth “game-of-thrones” narrative (the whole bend-the-knee pseudopolitical drama with Dany, for example).
But what will he reject, what will he deny? Which identity will challenged?
His destiny as a prophesied hero, fulfilling which has never been an (explicit) driving force for him? (we know everything Jon’s done in the Night’s Watch was building up towards his becoming the champion of humanity against darkness, the “third head of the dragon”, the “prince that was promised”, but it was Ned’s teachings and Ned’s moral lessons that inspired his choices and actions, not Rhaegar’s prophecy) His (non-existent) relationship with a biological father that never mattered to him?
Or…
isn’t it more likely that Jon’s problem with r+l=j lies with his relationships with Ned and Dany and not with Rhaegar?
^ Nailed it.
I think Jon’s psychological conflict about his parentage will be more about Ned/his Stark identity (and Dany) than about Rhaegar. For one thing, Rhaegar—regardless what light the overall story presents him in—isn’t really present in Jon’s narrative; Jon has virtually no opinion of him, and Rhaegar’s name rarely shows up in his chapters. Sure, when the PtwP prophecy finally erupts in Jon’s narrative and he realizes what Rhaegar was trying to accomplish, he’ll necessarily develop more complex feelings for him. But as of now, Rhaegar Targaryen is simply someone from the past that Jon isn’t really preoccupied with. Secondly, and more importantly, Rhaegar is a dead character, who has always been dead since the beginning of the story. I truly doubt he is going to have more of an impact on Jon’s character evolution than Ned (the father that raised him, the only father he’s known, and the faux-protagonist of book one) or Dany (the living and breathing major character Jon will plausibly have a romantic dynamic with, that with no doubt will be drastically affected by the parentage reveal).
I actually think it’s more likely and more narratively compelling that, rather than rebelling against Rhaegar, r+l=j makes Jon rebel against Ned, and everything he represents. Make him temporarily reject his Stark identity (out of fiery anger re: being lied to by Ned, and forced to a life of bastardy and anonymity, the reasons behind which resurrected!Jon, more wolf than he’s ever been, might not immediately understand, or care to understand) and embrace his Targaryen ancestry instead, with the whole fire&blood shebang. That is… until he’s made whole again by the love he has for his siblings, and the need to protect them. I think Jon’s love for his family—the family he grew up in—will be what eventually leads him *back home*, back to his Stark roots, back to Ned’s teachings.
I always found interesting the parallels Martin draws between characters. When it comes to Arya and Lyanna Stark their similarities run to an extreme, and it’s impossible to miss them. It’s almost like Arya is Lyanna’s clone, the Lyanna of the next generation. And since Arya is the main character and probably the one the author conceived first, I’m betting that the whole Lyanna’s characterization was based on her.
Unfortunately, after the latest game of thrones episode aired I’ve noticed lot of people mixing up Lyanna’s characterization. That comes from her wedding scene in which she’s dressed in a delicate dress and she’s smiling and so she has given the impression that she was actually lady-like to some people. I beg to disagree. Every woman would wear a beautiful dress on her wedding day and she would be smiling (well,unless she actually disliked the groom).
In any case, since I don’t like to see Lyanna’s characterization being butchered and her parallels with Arya being ignored, I decided to write that meta. So, let’s begin!
1. APPEARANCE
Both Lyanna and Arya share the traditional Stark look. That’s not something exclusive to them as Jon, Ned and his brothers all also have the Stark look. However, Ned Stark makes a direct comparison between Arya and Lyanna’s looks, which means that their similarities in look run deeper than just the typical family look:
[...]You remind me of her sometimes. You even look like her."
"Lyanna was beautiful," Arya said, startled. Everybody said so. It was not a thing that was ever said of Arya.
Later on, Bran Stark sees a vision of Lyanna and Benjen as children and mistakes his aunt for his sister. He has to look at the boy on his vision to realize that the girl isn’t actually Arya (because if she was, then the boy would have to be him).
Now two children danced across the godswood, hooting at one another as they dueled with broken branches. The girl was the older and taller of the two. Arya! Bran thought eagerly, as he watched her leap up onto a rock and cut at the boy. But that couldn't be right. If the girl was Arya, the boy was Bran himself, and he had never worn his hair so long. And Arya never beat me playing swords, the way that girl is beating him[..].
2. WOLF BLOOD
According to Old Nan all the Starks have wolf blood but it is stronger in some than in others. It’s interesting that among all the Starks we know only Brandon, Lyanna and Arya are linked to the wolf blood in text.
“Ah, Arya. You have a wildness in you, child. ‘The Wolf Blood’ my father would call it. Lyanna had a touch of it, and my brother Brandon more than a touch. It brought them both to an early grave[..]
3. PERSONAL TRAITS
Everything we know about Lyanna’s personal traits, are characteristics that Arya also possess. I already mentioned the wildness of them in the paragraph above. Another trait they have in common is their eagerness to hold a sword and practice with it.
[..]Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it[..]
I didn’t pick a specific quote about Arya and her relationship with swords because anyone who has read even one asoiaf book or watched one got episode knows that Arya carries a sword.
Moving on, both of them are characterized willful. What it makes the parallel more powerful is that in both cases Ned is the one who describes that trait of them.
About Lyanna:
"She was," Eddard Stark agreed, "beautiful, and willful, and dead before her time."
About Arya:
[...]This willfulness of yours, the running off, the angry words, the disobedience[...]
Furthermore both of them dislike teasing and they have a strong reaction to it.
Lyanna:
The dragon prince sang a song so sad it made the wolf maid sniffle, but when her pup brother teased her for crying she poured wine over his head.
Arya:
Behind them, Gendry groaned. "Lords and ladies," he proclaimed in a disgusted tone. Arya plucked a withered crabapple off a passing branch and whipped it at him, bouncing it off his thick bull head. "Ow," he said. "That hurt."
4. BRAVE PROTECTORS:
Another thing they have in common is that both are brave and they won’t hesitate to interfere when they see an unjust act. Both of them jumped in to protect a weaker person from their bullies. In Lyanna’s case it was Howland Reed and in Arya’s case was her friend Mycah. I think it is interesting to note that in both cases, the boys they defended were from a lower class than the girls.
Lyanna:
‘'That's my father's man you're kicking,' howled the she-wolf."
"A wolf on four legs, or two?"
"Two," said Meera. "The she-wolf laid into the squires with a tourney sword, scattering them all[...]
Arya:
[...] A bright bud of blood blossomed where his sword pressed into Mycah’s flesh, and a slow red line trickled down the boy’s cheek.
“Stop it!” Arya screamed. She grabbed up her fallen stick.
Sansa was afraid. “Arya, you stay out of this.”
“I won’t hurt him . . . much,” Prince Joffrey told Arya, never taking his eyes off the butcher’s boy.
Arya went for him.
Sansa slid off her mare, but she was too slow. Arya swung with both hands. There was a loud crack as the wood split against the back of the prince’s head, and then everything happened at once before Sansa’s horrified eyes [...]
5. HORSE RIDING
Harwin, whose father was master at horse in Winterfell and therefore knew both girls well, compared Arya’s horse riding skills to Lyanna’s.
"You ride like a northman, milady," Harwin said when he'd drawn them to a halt. "Your aunt was the same. Lady Lyanna. But my father was master of horse, remember."
6. FOND OF FLOWERS
Two girls who enjoy doing “boyish” things actually like flowers? Well, yes they do! What I like about Martin’s characters is that they aren’t one dimensional (unlike the characters of a certain tv series..) and don’t fall on stereotypes.
Both Lyanna and Arya are fond of flowers.
[..]Ned could recall none of it. "I bring her flowers when I can," he said. "Lyanna was … fond of flowers."
None of which stopped Arya, of course. One day she came back grinning her horsey grin, her hair all tangled and her clothes covered in mud, clutching a raggedy bunch of purple and green flowers for Father.
7. ENJOY SONGS
Many of you will disagree with me on this, because Arya has said that “ singing is stupid” but in my opinion people don’t always say what they mean. Let me elaborate on this.
First of all, I think it’s necessary to look at Arya’s quote:
"Singing is stupid," said Arya. "Singing makes noise. We heard you a long way off. We could have killed you."
As you can see, Arya declared singing stupid but she also went on to explain why she thought so. According to her singing makes noise and noise is dangerous for someone who wants to remain unnoticeable on the road.
In my opinion, her explanation make it seem like she didn’t dislike singing in general, just that she thought it was a foolish thing to do in their current situation.
Besides, finding singing “stupid” didn’t stop her from enjoying Tom and Hot Pie’s song later on:
Tom and Hot Pie resumed their song on the other side of the brook, with the duck hanging from Lem's belt beneath his yellow cloak. Somehow the singing made the miles seem shorter.
As for Lyanna, she enjoyed Rhaegar’s song:
The dragon prince sang a song so sad it made the wolf maid sniffle, but when her pup brother teased her for crying she poured wine over his head
I think that I demonstrated why Lyanna and Arya are so similar with all these reasons I provided. It’s interesting that not even Lyanna’s son, Jon, shares so many similarities with her -and he’s certainly not compared to her like Arya is. I’d go as far as to say, that no other asoiaf characters share so many and obvious parallels as Lyanna and Arya Stark.
For whatever reason, the Lyanna = Sansa interpretation has been getting increasingly popular in the fandom. There’s this growing theory that Sansa and Arya are both equally like Lyanna and represent the different sides of her. In the extreme, there’s arguments Sansa is actually more like Lyanna than Arya.
“Arya and Sansa represent two faces of Lyanna.” “Denying one is actually denying Lyanna’s story in complete.” “Sansa’s romantic soul and Arya’s wild nature.”
Which, honestly drives me crazy – because you have to twist all three women out of character to justify the parallels.
There are way too many Lyanna/Arya parallels to explain here. If anyone wants a summary here are some good ones. But tbh, it’s not even something you need meta for – the books are incredibly explicit about the parallels, from their personalities (“wilful”), Stark-ness (wolf blooded), skills/interests (sword fighting and riding) and appearance (Northern beauties). Ned, Harwin and Bran all compare them outright.
Meanwhile, here’s the one explicit Lyanna/Sansa comparison: “He could still hear Sansa pleading, as Lyanna had pleaded once.” – Ned, AGoT.
Btw, this is not an anti-Sansa meta. Sansa has multiple parallels to other characters and inherits traits from many family members. (Ned, Catelyn, Jon, Sandor, Dany, Lysa, Cersei, Littlefinger, Brienne etc.) And there’s obviously overlap in characters she and Arya share connections with. But Lyanna Stark is not one of them. This is a debunking of the general Lyanna = Sansa evidence (book based).
Sansa/Joffrey = Lyanna/Rhaegar
1. Sansa was blinded by love for Joffrey, Lyanna was blinded by love for Rhaegar
A. Don’t know how anyone missed this but – we don’t know the full Lyanna/Rhaegar story. The whole point of the event is how murky it is. We can't assume it was as simple as Lyanna being blinded by "love" Rhaegar and losing all common sense like Sansa did around Joffrey. That’s one of many interpretations. It could have been about the prophecy, closer to a straight kidnapping, Rhaegar being the one blinded by love, Lyanna running away by herself initially. Using the most unreliable story in the entire series as a basis for this theory is headscratching.
B. Lyanna is presented as perceptive and realistic about men, not idealistic. From actual quotes: Lyanna “Robert will never keep to one bed.” Lyanna “love is sweet dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man’s nature”?? That girl was blinded by infatuation for Rhaegar? Blinded in the way Sansa you-literally-tried-to-kill-my-sister-in-front-of-me -but-I-repressed-it-to-keep-my-fairytale-alive, was by Joffrey? Doesn’t line up.
C. A far better comparison to Sansa/Joffrey is Lyanna/Robert. Both Sansa and Lyanna were faced with marrying a young, handsome noble who was friends with the family and would give them status and a comfortable life. Sansa was overjoyed and Lyanna was unhappy. Both were faced with unpleasant truths about their betrothed: Joffrey was a monster and Robert was unfaithful. Sansa, the romantic rewrote events, idealized Joffrey and convinced herself he was wonderful and she loved him. Lyanna was clear-eyed, cynical and stated the facts. Completely opposite reactions.
D. Fun fact. What character saw Joffrey for what he was, is good at reading people's true character and isn't blinded by looks or status? Arya.
2: Both Sansa and Lyanna fell in love/had romances with Princes
We’ll put aside the question marks over R/L. Let’s say it’s a straight love story. It’s still starkly different from Joffrey and Sansa.
A. Sansa/Joffrey was an arranged marriage – Rhaegar/Lyanna was a forbidden affair. For most of the time Sansa was “in love” with him, Sansa’s relationship with Joffrey was fulfilling expectations of what she should be doing. Only at the eleventh hour did Joffrey become "forbidden.” Meanwhile, Lyanna and Rhaegar fell in love while they were both betrothed/married. It was always a rebellion against acceptable behaviour. Again, Lyanna/Robert is a much better parallel to understand the characters.
B. Even if R/L was a love story…then the argument is Rhaegar did love Lyanna and it was mutual. Sansa and Joffrey wasn’t mutual because he certainly never loved her.
C. Apart from being Princes I’m still waiting on similarities between Joffrey and Rhaegar. Aerys? Sure.
3: Lyanna and Sansa both betrayed their families for love/infatuation and started a war
A. We still don’t know what went down between Rhaegar and Lyanna. Certainly, not enough to parallel Lyanna running off with him to Sansa betraying Ned to Cersei.
B. Again, Sansa’s “betrayal” of her family was to uphold her arranged marriage. Lyanna’s “betrayal” was to turn her back on society and arranged match, and vanish for months with a married man. Vastly different circumstances.
C. Sansa going to Cersei was notably out of character for "eager to please since she was 3" Sansa vs. "wilful, wild" Lyanna and Arya. In the same book (chapter?) Sansa even compares her disobedience to feeling "almost as wicked as Arya."
D. The causes of both wars were complex and Sansa at least played a pretty minor role in hers. Her actions in contributing to the War of the Five Kings aren’t given nearly the same weight as Lyanna’s disappearance.
4: Sansa is more likely to run away for love than Arya
A. Um. No. Sansa is repeatedly characterised as dutiful and living by society's standards. Her causing the scandal of the century by running off with a married guy/someone unsuitable? No way. Not if she was in Lyanna's situation with a comfortable future before her. We see Sansa persuade herself her situation/match is fine – rather than flee from it – with Joffrey.
B. You know who is known for running off? Arya. In her first chapter, she runs away from being a lady, she runs off after the Trident incident, she fantasies about running home while in KL, she’s literally on the run for ACoK-ASoS, she runs from Harrenhal, the Brotherhood, Westeros itself. If one of the Stark girls has a *screw all this, I’m outta here* attitude, it’s Arya. And a teenage Arya running away from an arranged marriage? 100% plausible.
C. Also, falling for someone unsuitable? How about that infamously wilful younger Stark daughter? Arya falling in love with someone forbidden - *cough* bastard blacksmith *cough* - would be totally in character.
5: Both Lyanna and Sansa were held prisoner in the South during war
A. This parallel undermines the previous basis for Lyanna being a romantic. (I.e. The argument that she wasn’t a prisoner but went willingly with Rhaegar).
B. Let’s say Lyanna was kidnapped – still starkly different from Sansa. Sansa was held as a political pawn and on show. Lyanna was kidnapped for unknown, possibly personal reasons and hidden away from society. Sansa has more parallels with Elia’s role in the war than Lyanna’s.
C. If we start making a list of every character who is held prisoner during wars – Jaime, Tyrion, Ned, oh look Arya! – we’ll be here forever. Very weak parallel.
Lyanna and Sansa are romantics – Arya is a realist/cynic
To reiterate, everything we see of Lyanna’s reaction to Robert indicates she’s a practical realistic, not a romantic. But let’s break down the evidence.
1: Lyanna cried over Rhaegar’s song so she’s sentimental like Sansa not Arya
(“The dragon prince sang a song so sad it made the wolf maid sniffle…”)
A. Yes, Sansa's more sentimental and loves songs. But interpreting the scene as a Lyanna/Sansa parallel, blatantly discounts the rest of the sentence: “…but when her pup brother teased her [Lyanna] for crying she poured wine over his head.” NEVER in a million years would Sansa do that. Not at a public Southern tourney and feast. Man though, you know a Stark girl who would do that? Who is far more wild and playful with her brothers? Arya. The Sansa parallel lasts Iess than a sentence before we’re back to Lyanna/Arya.
B. The fact Benjen bothered to tease Lyanna at all suggests it was out of character for her. I can't see the Stark boys teasing Sansa for crying, as it's the kind of thing she'd be likely to do all the time and wouldn't be ashamed of it. No point in teasing her. Teasing gutsy, sighing-over-songs-is-stupid Arya for crying though? Sure.
C. "Sang a song SO sad it made the wolf maid sniffle." The point is the song was exceptional in being able to make Lyanna cry. It’s “man, that’s unusual” not “oh, typical Lyanna sniffling away”. That comment is more about the Lyanna/Rhaegar relationship, not Lyanna’s allegedly sentimental personality.
D. Arya likes songs and Arya cries. That’s not exclusive to Sansa and Lyanna. This great meta goes into more detail both about the significance of songs for all characters in Asoiaf and how emotional Arya can be. But enough to say, Arya may not love songs as much as Sansa does, but she likes them and has favourites – Nymeria, Wenda the White Fawn etc. For all we know Rhaegar was singing a Nymeria/Wenda fanfic. And Arya cries a lot throughout the books, right from her first chapter over messing up her needlework.
2: Sansa and Lyanna both loved flowers. Lyanna was crowned Queen of Love and Beauty at the tourney at Harranhal = Sansa was given a rose by Loras at the Hand’s tourney.
A. News to me that “flowers” are a motif exclusive to Sansa’s character. Not only are flowers sprinkled all over the series, they’re more present in Arya’s story. In Sansa’s first chapter, Arya brings Ned purple flowers (Ned who brings Lyanna's statue flowers) and is excitedly discovering new plants while Sansa is sitting in her carriage. Not to mention the heck ton of nature imagery in Arya’s chapters. This is a weak link.
B. Lyanna gets a crown from a prince who spurns his wife? Sansa gets a rose from an implied gay guy? Much love. Much romance. Much parallels. If GRRM wanted that parallel, he’d have actually crowned Sansa QoLaB. There are hundreds of tourneys in the series, both of them attending doesn’t mean anything.
C. This is the same tourney where Lyanna first beat up a bunch of squires and may have gone on to dress up a knight and compete in the joust. Go ahead anyone who wants to argue that’s a Sansa not Arya move.
3: Arya has no interest in romance, Sansa and Lyanna do. Arya thinks love is stupid and Sansa is silly for liking it
A. Still very little evidence of Lyanna being some diehard romantic.
B. We cannot compare a 9/10yo Arya to a 15/16yo Lyanna. That’s skipping Arya’s entire puberty a.k.a when girls start to explore romance, love and sex. You can't take a few lines from a child as a blanket statement of Arya's views for love forever. It’s also comparing a Lyanna who grew up in a secure environment until she hit her teens vs. Arya who was thrust into a warzone as a child. Sorry Arya isn’t thinking about romance while starving on the run.
C. Arya’s dismissal of romance is entwined with her own insecurities about failing as a lady, her ‘ugliness’ and being inferior to her sister. It’s a defence mechanism for something she worries she can never have. Also, she rejects Sansa’s versions of idealised love and conventional expectations of romance – not love full stop. Lyanna didn’t seem sold on the conventional marriage set up either.
D. Despite her age and circumstances, Arya still manages to have a ship tease with Gendry – a relationship more genuine and straightforwardly romantic than anything Sansa’s had. (Not discounting her complex dynamics with Sandor, Joffrey, Willas, Harry and Tyrion).
E. For the record, in the same conversation Arya told Ned Dayne "love is stupid" that people like to cite, she was mortally offended by the suggestion that her father loved anyone else ever other than her mother.
Sansa represents Lyanna’s “beautiful and feminine side” and Arya her “wildness and rebellion”
These aspects are not exclusionary and there's no indication Lyanna had these two opposing sides. In the same conversation that Ned tells Arya that she's like Lyanna, he refers to Sansa and Arya as "different as the sun and moon." (Not “two sides of the same coin” as is commonly quoted - that’s about the Targs).
So really. "Arya, you're the opposite of your sister! And almost exactly like Lyanna!" = "Sansa is like Lyanna". But let’s go through.
1: Lyanna and Sansa the beauties
A. Arya is beautiful as well. For more detail go here – she’s growing into her looks. She doesn’t think she’s beautiful but other characters are commenting on it. Trying to imply Arya is “too ugly” to parallel Lyanna, so Sansa has to fill that part is gross on multiple levels.
B. Arya is explicitly describe as looking like Lyanna. By Ned. Lyanna’s brother and Arya’s father. If Arya isn’t beautiful, then Lyanna isn’t either.
C. Lyanna wasn’t a conventional Southern beauty. She was a “wild” beauty, Northern looking and even boyish. None of which matches with Sansa’s appearance – but all of which tallies with Arya.
2: People saw Lyanna and Sansa’s beauty but not “the iron underneath”
A. Ned's comment about Robert not seeing Lyanna's iron seemed far more about Robert’s blindness than Lyanna hiding her iron. The conversation was about Robert’s version of Lyanna, not how Lyanna herself behaved.
B. Nothing suggests Lyanna “hid” her iron. She publicly tipped wine over Benjen, she beat up the squires in the open. There's little indication she hid her strength under courtesy and ladylike behaviour like Sansa did.
3: Lyanna and Sansa were feminine
This may be the argument that raises my hackles the most. For a start this bizarre use of ‘feminine’ gets thrown around without defining what it means. So, just what.
A. Let’s assume ‘feminine’ refers to Westerosi ideal of the perfect lady that Sansa embodies: Girly, concerned with appearances, gracious, a submissive wife etc. Then…everything tells us Lyanna was the opposite to that. She was off wanting to carry swords, squabbling with her brothers, resisting marriage proposals and possibly entering jousts. None of that is traditionally “feminine.”
B. If we take a wider view of feminine as women owning their gender, femininity and role as a woman – Arya isn’t a genderless blob. Her being disguised as a boy and Faceless Men training is about how desperately she clings to her true identity…including her gender. She constantly corrects people about being a girl, takes on a caring and even maternal role (Weasel) and has female heroes.
C. Suggesting Arya is less “female” than Sansa – and thus unworthy of paralleling Lyanna – because she has traditionally boyish interests and fails the Westerosi ideal is pretty appalling tbh.
Random Parallels
1: Lyanna and Sansa were betrothed to a Baratheon
A. Not sure how anyone missed this – it was kinda a major plot point way back – but Joffrey wasn’t a Baratheon. He didn’t act or look like a Baratheon. He was a Lannister through and through.
B. You know who did have a major connection to a Baratheon? You know a Stark girl, Robert’s son legitimately fell for? Oh whoops, Arya. While Robert and Gendry are very different and the Arya/Gendry relationship is more genuine than Robert’s infatuation with Lyanna, it’s a more concrete parallel than Sansa/Joffrey.
C. Don’t know how many times I can say this, but the Joffrey/Sansa vs. Robert/Lyanna parallels highlight Sansa and Lyanna’s differences not their similarities.
2: Lyanna and Sansa Defend the Weak (Howland Reed and Dontas)
A. Yes, Sansa does defend Dontas, that was a great moment. But "defending the weak" is a recurring theme for Arya, while it’s a one off for Sansa. Arya has Mycah, Weasel, going back for Gendry, saving the Northernmen, hanging out with the defenders-of-the-helpless Brotherhood without Banners, saving Sam in Braavos, "they should have killed the masters not the slaves" etc. Arya's story is entwined with defending/befriending the oppressed and downtrodden. Sansa's is not.
B. Arya and Lyanna had much more similar approaches to defending Mycah/Howland scenes in physically beating off the attacker. Sansa's approach differed in using diplomacy and flattery. And "saved someone once" is a pretty loose thematic parallel.
3: Lyanna rejected Robert = Sansa rejected Tyrion
A. Sansa was horrified at marrying a dwarf old enough to be her father after she'd been a prisoner of his abusive family for months. Lyanna didn't want to marry a young, handsome lord who was a good match and arranged by her family.
B. Sansa resisted Tyrion yes, but she didn't reject him and she didn't run away. She endured. Again, going with the Lyanna-went-willingly-with-Rhaegar/ran away version of events – Lyanna rebelled in a much more blatant way.
C. Sansa/Joffrey is a much better parallel to Lyanna/Robert, than Sansa/Tyrion. How Sansa reacted to that situation – an ideal, arranged match – is an accurate point to compare her character to Lyanna. (Man, people really hate these Sansa/Joffrey vs. Lyanna/Robert parallels).
This Ended Up Very Long and I’m Sorry
Ultimately, the problem with framing Sansa as an equal half of Lyanna is you have to mischaracterize all three characters to get there – Claiming Sansa is more likely to rebel, that Arya has no soft side and Lyanna was a blind romantic. Until we get more book details on the Rhaegar/Lyanna relationship, the main argument falls apart.
If we're talking parallels, it's less that "Sansa was one half of Lyanna" and more "Sansa was the inverse of Lyanna." One was dutiful and one rebelled, one went for her arranged marriage, one rejected it. Which makes sense as Sansa is a foil to Arya…a character who, as the books made clear from the start, does parallel Lyanna.
There are plenty of characters who connect to both Arya and Sansa. Ned and Catelyn reflect different aspects of their daughters. Brienne has two sides that reflect the two of them – both a romantic idealistic and unconventional woman. Let’s talk about those parallels instead.
A theory about the origin of House Stark’s words and their distant relation to the Others.
Potential spoilers for the books and show. Also, this is my first meta and so it might be a little all over the place!
“Winter Is Coming” is quite a known phrase within the fandom and in-universe, isn’t it? People quote it all the time and I can’t even count how many times Ned said it, but it was a lot of times - which I think is funny because how many people really know the meaning of these words? Or rather, the theorised meaning of the words.
Unlike some Westerosi House words like the Baratheon’s Ours Is The Fury or the Royce’s We Remember - which is pretty chilling btw - Winter Is Coming doesn’t appear to be a threat, per se. It seems to be a warning more than anything. A warning that the cold, freezing and harsh winter is coming, as it always is, and perhaps it used to be a warning that the Others’ were coming.
But what if the words are a threat and a warning? Not for winter or the Others but for the Starks themselves; who are descendents of the Others?
I know, it sounds crazy, can you imagine a Stark, honourable, noble Stark, marrying and/or bedding an Other! But think about all the theories that the Night’s King, who fell in love with a woman who was almost certainly an Other, was actually a Stark - and there are those who belive that the show’s Night’s King is actually a Stark - and so, is it really so out there to think that some time afterwards a Stark wed or bedded another woman with ice cold skin? I don’t think so.
(This might be why the Night’s King name was wiped from history, all records of him destroyed, his name forbidden, maybe the Starks did this to clear their name and clean up their mess?)
Maybe a Stark married an Other woman before all that, which I think is more likely. According to legend, the Night’s King was Lord Commander of the Watch not long after it was built, and the Starks were already Kings of Winter by now. They were named the Kings of Winter, for gods sake! I’ll soon get to that, but first though, let’s hear Osha’s take on it, which is a valid point, I think;
[Osha:] Winter’s got no king. (Bran VII, AGOT)
I take this to mean that no one can control winter - but what if they can, what if they did? What if the Starks actually ruled Winter, through their Others’ blood? It sounds weird, I know, but just imagine it! The Others bring winter, the true winter, with them - as they are in the current story.
I hear you asking, why can’t they control winter, and the Others, now then? Dont worry, if you were, because I have an answer; it’s been more than, what, tens of thousands of years since this “bonding” of man and Other might have happened, it’s almost…well, stupid to think that they could still hold power over their very distant relatives, the Others.
People think it’s hardly possible that Daenerys can control - well ‘control’ might be a stretch - her dragons after they had been gone for a century and a half - and therfore, no Targaryen had been able to bond with them. If you think that isn’t likely, imagine thousands and thousands of years of breeding with people who aren’t Others, and the Starks only slept with/produced with an Other once - according to my theory anyway - in all those years, and at the very start of this long timeline.
Yeah, it’s very unlikely Starks have enough Other blood to control them now. (That’s not to say I don’t discount the theory that a Stark shall defeat the Others, I just don’t think they’ll control them any time soon - or rather, at all.) But perhaps that is why the North/First Men eventually knelt to the Starks; they knew that they had some crazy powers and didn’t want to mess with them - over thousands of years though, after the Other blood ‘ran out’ I think the North stayed loyal because they saw that the Starks were actually good guys - good guys who wouldn’t kill them with their special powers.
But going back to the house words; House Stark’s words were obviously made a very long time ago, back when the Starks first came to power, like any power, which was before they became kings, I think. At the time those words - Winter Is Coming - were made, I think the Starks/a Stark had either just bedded an Other or could still control the Others, and Winter.
Of course, as I said earlier, House Stark, and their words, have been around for thousands and thousands of years, and in that time their words have stopped being a threat and more a warning - though it would be cool if some still used it as a threat - like Robb did in the TV show, in this scene.
EDIT: I forgot to say, but the name/word Stark means “strong, powerful and massive”, so…yeah.
TLDR; The Starks have Others blood, which once allowed them to control Winter. I think their words, basically, mean; the Starks are coming and Winter itself is coming with them.
I was reading this post by @aryainwinterfell about the misconceptions of “Arya wanted to be a knight” in fandom and it occurred to me how common it is to characterise Arya as naturally more physically inclined and a warrior, and Bran as more intelligent and focused on the mental abilities.
(Seriously how many fanfics make Bran the nerdy son and Arya the sporty daughter?)
On one hand, that characterisation makes sense because their circumstances have put them into those roles: Arya has/is being trained as a warrior, carries a sword and her journey has been focused on physical survival. (Though she depends on her wits and intelligence more than is acknowledged). Bran being crippled has meant he’s more dependent on his mind and intelligence, his training is mental, internal and magical. (Although there’s clearly a physical survival aspect to his journey also).
But what’s fascinating is they didn’t start out like that. In AGoT, Bran wanted to be a knight and fight in battles, while Arya wanted to be a councillor, build castles and become a High Septon, which, as commented in the original post, rely on intelligence rather than physical strength. Bran also comments that Arya never beat him sword-fighting, indicating that she wasn’t naturally more athletically/physically/warrior inclined than him.
It’s just a fascinating point that the characters are much more complex than your average archetypes. GRRM could have introduced Arya running around in armour and Bran contemplating deeply on life – but he didn’t, because life isn’t that simple.
And I’m not saying Arya isn’t a good fighter or doesn’t have physical inclinations – she clearly does. Or that Bran isn’t incredibly intelligent and insightful – he clearly is. But they’re multi-faceted, multi-talented and their roles aren’t what they or anyone else expected of them.
In the end, I fully expect Bran to be the one building castles and being a wise councillor/ruler. (Seriously, I will cling to my “Bran the Rebuilder” theories until GRRM himself pops by to tell me otherwise). And Arya will take on a warrior role in the final war – though probably as a battle strategist/leader rather than foot solider. But things are never straight forward in Asoiaf and whatever the two of them do, their endings will bring together all their considerable strengths, skills and characteristics.
#Also, what would have the series have looked like if they swapped journeys? #There’s lots of “could Arya and Sansa survived in each others place” - mostly to undermine Arya. #But man, the idea of Bran and Arya switching is fascinating. #An Arya who is crippled and told she’s even more worthless as a woman now?? #Who rules as the “Stark at Winterfell” honing her innate sense of justice and leadership? #Who goes North to follow her green dreams as fitting for the wildest, wolf-blooded Stark?? #Meanwhile, a Bran who escapes KL through relying on his climbing abilities and water dancing training suitable for a small, skinny child? #The boy who is “quick to laugh, easy to love” befriending and winning over the smallfolk he suffers with?? #A Bran who watches his idealisation of Knights fall apart at seeing the injustices of war?
#Obviously the version we got was the right version. #And Arya and Bran took to their hero’s journeys like (traumatized) ducks to water #They were where they needed to be #But they’re similar #Not just a smart vs. physical dichotomy.
When Ned decided to cancel Sansa’s engagement with Joffrey, he told her that one day he would find her a better match:
"Sweet one," her father said gently, "listen to me. When you're old enough, I will make you a match with a high lord who's worthy of you, someone brave and gentle and strong. This match with Joffrey was a terrible mistake. That boy is no Prince Aemon, you must believe me."
I think that since a marriage between her and the heir to the throne wasn’t an option anymore, Ned marrying her to a high lord who would also have some good character qualities was the best possible outcome.
I’m not sure if this will actually happen in the books, but if Sansa were to marry again after everything she has been through I think she deserves to find someone with a good character; just like her father wanted.
While Ned’s talk with Sansa makes total sense given the circumstances, the same can’t be said about his talk with Arya:
"You," Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, "will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon."
Ned told his younger daughter that she would marry a king when the only king of Westeros was old enough to be her father and he was married and his heir was currently engaged to his other daughter. Why he did so? He could just replace the word “king” with “high lord” and the meaning of his speech would remain the same.
It doesn’t make much sense for Ned to tell her that, unless Martin wanted to put a foreshadowing via his character’s mouth. Now, I’m not saying that Arya will certainly end up with a king because maybe he didn’t mean with the literal sense but rather as “she will marry someone as worthy as a king”. However, I think that’s an interesting topic considering that Arya has other links to queendom,too. For example, her wolf is named after the famous warrior princess Nymeria.
A theory about the origin of House Stark’s words and their distant relation to the Others.
Potential spoilers for the books and show. Also, this is my first meta and so it might be a little all over the place!
“Winter Is Coming” is quite a known phrase within the fandom and in-universe, isn’t it? People quote it all the time and I can’t even count how many times Ned said it, but it was a lot of times - which I think is funny because how many people really know the meaning of these words? Or rather, the theorised meaning of the words.
Unlike some Westerosi House words like the Baratheon’s Ours Is The Fury or the Royce’s We Remember - which is pretty chilling btw - Winter Is Coming doesn’t appear to be a threat, per se. It seems to be a warning more than anything. A warning that the cold, freezing and harsh winter is coming, as it always is, and perhaps it used to be a warning that the Others’ were coming.
But what if the words are a threat and a warning? Not for winter or the Others but for the Starks themselves; who are descendents of the Others?
I know, it sounds crazy, can you imagine a Stark, honourable, noble Stark, marrying and/or bedding an Other! But think about all the theories that the Night’s King, who fell in love with a woman who was almost certainly an Other, was actually a Stark - and there are those who belive that the show’s Night’s King is actually a Stark - and so, is it really so out there to think that some time afterwards a Stark wed or bedded another woman with ice cold skin? I don’t think so.
(This might be why the Night’s King name was wiped from history, all records of him destroyed, his name forbidden, maybe the Starks did this to clear their name and clean up their mess?)
Maybe a Stark married an Other woman before all that, which I think is more likely. According to legend, the Night’s King was Lord Commander of the Watch not long after it was built, and the Starks were already Kings of Winter by now. They were named the Kings of Winter, for gods sake! I’ll soon get to that, but first though, let’s hear Osha’s take on it, which is a valid point, I think;
[Osha:] Winter’s got no king. (Bran VII, AGOT)
I take this to mean that no one can control winter - but what if they can, what if they did? What if the Starks actually ruled Winter, through their Others’ blood? It sounds weird, I know, but just imagine it! The Others bring winter, the true winter, with them - as they are in the current story.
I hear you asking, why can’t they control winter, and the Others, now then? Dont worry, if you were, because I have an answer; it’s been more than, what, tens of thousands of years since this “bonding” of man and Other might have happened, it’s almost…well, stupid to think that they could still hold power over their very distant relatives, the Others.
People think it’s hardly possible that Daenerys can control - well ‘control’ might be a stretch - her dragons after they had been gone for a century and a half - and therfore, no Targaryen had been able to bond with them. If you think that isn’t likely, imagine thousands and thousands of years of breeding with people who aren’t Others, and the Starks only slept with/produced with an Other once - according to my theory anyway - in all those years, and at the very start of this long timeline.
Yeah, it’s very unlikely Starks have enough Other blood to control them now. (That’s not to say I don’t discount the theory that a Stark shall defeat the Others, I just don’t think they’ll control them any time soon - or rather, at all.) But perhaps that is why the North/First Men eventually knelt to the Starks; they knew that they had some crazy powers and didn’t want to mess with them - over thousands of years though, after the Other blood ‘ran out’ I think the North stayed loyal because they saw that the Starks were actually good guys - good guys who wouldn’t kill them with their special powers.
But going back to the house words; House Stark’s words were obviously made a very long time ago, back when the Starks first came to power, like any power, which was before they became kings, I think. At the time those words - Winter Is Coming - were made, I think the Starks/a Stark had either just bedded an Other or could still control the Others, and Winter.
Of course, as I said earlier, House Stark, and their words, have been around for thousands and thousands of years, and in that time their words have stopped being a threat and more a warning - though it would be cool if some still used it as a threat - like Robb did in the TV show, in this scene.
EDIT: I forgot to say, but the name/word Stark means “strong, powerful and massive”, so…yeah.
TLDR; The Starks have Others blood, which once allowed them to control Winter. I think their words, basically, mean; the Starks are coming and Winter itself is coming with them.
This might sound stupid, but wasn't Sansa disinherited by Robb? So wouldn't the line of succession of Winterfell be Bran-Rickon-Arya-Jon? I'm just a tad confused, since I've seen so many fics with Sansa ruling the North, while all her siblings except Robb is still alive. Did I miss something important?
It’s not a stupid question, and it’s one that people get tied in knots about a fair amount. The answer to it is….complicated, and has to do with my least favorite dangling plot: Robb’s Will.
We first see Sansa’s status as being in the line for Winterfell discussed in A Storm of Swords.
“It does not always happen the first time.” Though it did with you. “Nor even the hundredth.You are very young.”
“Young, and a king,” he said. “A king must have an heir. If I should die in my next battle, thekingdom must not die with me. By law Sansa is next in line of succession, so Winterfell and thenorth would pass to her.” His mouth tightened. “To her, and her lord husband. Tyrion Lannister.I cannot allow that. I will not allow that. That dwarf must never have the north.”
“No,” Catelyn agreed. “You must name another heir, until such time as Jeyne gives you a son.”She considered a moment. “Your father’s father had no siblings, but his father had a sister whomarried a younger son of Lord Raymar Royce, of the junior branch. They had three daughters,all of whom wed Vale lordlings. A Waynwood and a Corbray, for certain. The youngest… itmight have been a Templeton, but…”
“Mother.” There was a sharpness in Robb’s tone. “You forget. My father had four sons.”
She had not forgotten; she had not wanted to look at it, yet there it was. “A Snow is not aStark.”
“Jon’s more a Stark than some lordlings from the Vale who have never so much as set eyes onWinterfell.”
“If Jon is a brother of the Night’s Watch, sworn to take no wife and hold no lands. Those whotake the black serve for life.”
“So do the knights of the Kingsguard. That did not stop the Lannisters from stripping the whitecloaks from Ser Barristan Selmy and Ser Boros Blount when they had no more use for them. If Isend the Watch a hundred men in Jon’s place, I’ll wager they find some way to release him fromhis vows.”
He is set on this. Catelyn knew how stubborn her son could be. “A bastard cannot inherit.”
“Not unless he’s legitimized by a royal decree,” said Robb. “There is more precedent for thatthan for releasing a Sworn Brother from his oath.”
“Precedent,” she said bitterly. “Yes, Aegon the Fourth legitimized all his bastards on hisdeathbed. And how much pain, grief, war, and murder grew from that? I know you trust Jon. Butcan you trust his sons? Or their sons? The Blackfyre pretenders troubled the Targaryens for fivegenerations, until Barristan the Bold slew the last of them on the Stepstones. If you make Jon legitimate, there is no way to turn him bastard again. Should he wed and breed, any sons youmay have by Jeyne will never be safe.”
“Jon would never harm a son of mine.”
“No more than Theon Greyjoy would harm Bran or Rickon?”
Grey Wind leapt up atop King Tristifer’s crypt, his teeth bared. Robb’s own face was cold. “That is as cruel as it is unfair. Jon is no Theon.”
“So you pray. Have you considered your sisters? What of their rights? I agree that the north must not be permitted to pass to the imp, but what of Arya? By law, she comes after Sansa…your own sister, trueborn…”
“… and dead. No one has seen or heard of Arya since they cut Father’s head off. Why do you lieto yourself? Arya’s gone, the same as Bran and Rickon, and they’ll kill Sansa too once the dwarfgets a child from her. Jon is the only brother that remains to me. Should I die without issue, Iwant him to succeed me as King in the North. I had hoped you would support my choice.”
“I cannot,” she said. “In all else, Robb. In everything. But not in this… this folly. Do not ask it.”
“I don’t have to. I’m the king.” Robb turned and walked off, Grey Wind bounding down fromthe tomb and loping after him. (Catelyn, ASOS)
There are a couple of takeaway points from here:
Before Theon took Winterfell, and assuming that everyone did as they were supposed to which–lol Westeros lol–the line of inheritance was as follows:
Bran–>Rickon–>Sansa–>Arya–>Ned’s random Vale cousins
Benjen, presumably, is not considered an heir because of his vows to the Night’s Watch (also his presumed deadness)
Jon is not in the line of succession at all (a point of acute pain for him growing up) because he’s a bastard, and also his vows to the Night’s Watch
This passage is not actually about disinheriting Sansa. It’s about legitimizing Jon, and putting him before her in the line of succession so that Winterfell does not pass to the Lannisters should something happen to Robb.
Jon–>{Bran}–>{Rickon}–>Sansa–>{Arya}–>Ned’s random Vale cousins (where {} indicates presumed deadness)
The idea, then, would be that Jon would be legitimized and by royal decree freed of his oath to the Night’s Watch and he would then be Robb’s heir until Jeyne bore Robb some sons:
**Robb’s potential sons**–>Jon–>{Bran}–>{Rickon}–>Sansa–>{Arya}–>Ned’s random Vale cousins
Here’s the point of contention: there’s no indication that Sansa was ever removed from the line of succession. It’s really unclear. (Darn it, Robb). To me, the passage reads as though Robb didn’t make a point of disinheriting Sansa so much as legitimizing Jon and naming Jon his heir, which would solve his problems nicely if Jon accepted this, and Sansa would still be treated “fairly” to some extent. To me, the indication that Robb thinks that Arya’s dead, and even if he didn’t, refused to put her before Sansa in the line of succession means that I think his thought process ended with legitimizing Jon. He didn’t feel as though he needed to do more than that, since he and Jeyne were shtupping several times a day and she would, theoretically, give him an heir sometime soon. And also Walder Frey wasn’t going to be a huge fucking asshat.
This gets complicated, given what we know happens in ADWD, where Jon more than once rejects Stannis’ offer to legitimize him and give him Winterfell, saying that Sansa is Robb’s heir. Now, whether he would handle that offer differently if it came from Robb vs. Stannis, we don’t (yet) know. But if he is legitimized, he is a contender for the heir of Winterfell.
Which brings up, I suppose, more speculation of who would actually rule:
Jon–legitimized (assuming that he would feel comfortable with taking power he conceives of belonging to his younger siblings, which I don’t think he will, but who knows zombies man)? Sansa, with the backing of the Vale (and Ned’s random Vale cousins maybe)? Rickon with the backing of White Harbor? Bran and his god powers and everyone thinking of him as Robb’s heir? No one seems to take Arya into account in this discussion but gurl’s gonna have huge fuckin’ wolf pack so I’m layin’ on the table? It’s hard to say.
Catelyn’s right in being nervous about it, to some extent: I do think that who will rule Winterfell is going to be a huge point in the next few books, especially as you have Manderly’s sphere of influence rising if he gets Rickon, versus Baelish’s intents for Sansa (which, tbh, who even knows if he actually intends to give her “Harry, the Eyrie, and Winterfell” because the dude is one sneaky motherfucker), versus who knows what zombified Jon is going to do.
What I do hold to be true is this: I don’t actually think that any of the Starks would place their claim over the others’ lives. I think that those around them will be pushing them to fight, but I don’t actually see them wanting to do this. Sansa mourns her family and thinks she’s the last Stark and will presumably be thrilled at not being alone in the world; Rickon hasn’t had a united family since he was three; Jon loves all his siblings and remembers them all fondly; Bran loves and is loved by everyone; Arya just wants to go home. And, of course, there’s this:
Let me tell you something about wolves, child. When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives. Summer is the time for squabbles. In winter, we must protect one another, keep each other warm, share our strengths. So if you must hate, Arya, hate those who would truly do us harm. (Arya II, AGOT)
Which I guess is to say that to me, sure ok, let’s worry about who inherits, but in the long run, I believe that Ned raised his kids well enough to sort it out amongst themselves, and to do so fairly and well, regardless of the political machinations of those around them.
