@stillness138 replied to your post “Discussing it last night with @metabble and...”:
please elaborate??? 👀
Basically the theory goes "what if Hecate is a future Melinoe gone back in time to fix things/set them in motion?"
Initially I dismissed this notion cause it just seemed absurd. But gathering the evidence it might not be.
Evidence
The game centers on fighting the Titan of Time, and time loops and time crazy things are established within that in mind. We already know Chronos sometimes airdrops Melinoe into a past version of Asphodel so when he says timetravel to the past is impossible he's full of shit. Especially since in that convo Melinoe says she's from the future coming to warn Chronos on his demise. So maybe he knows something, and hence why he lies.
Hecate is a strange character within SGG's Hades lore. We learn she is Nyx's handmaiden, but that is never referenced in the first game. Doylist answer is that they didn't have a sequel in mind but Supergiant is really good about narratives so this seems like a weird retcon. They could've easily simply say she worked with Demeter to find Persephone, which as far as I know, is never referenced in the interactions with Demeter or Hecate herself. She never did that in SGG lore. While it could be simply be that Hecate worked away from the House and watched from afar the interaction when she tells Melinoe that is said oddly like she's trying to cover up a slip
there are various interactions like this, like Hecate knows too much, but is with-holding info. But one of the biggest evidences for this theory is the book of shadows.
The book of shadows is particular. It's written in second person, yet the entries themselves seem to reflect Melinoe's own thoughts and feelings. This is especially prominent when we get to Mel's own entry
This is really harsh. Unbelievably so. But the game has already established that Melinoe does have these thoughts about herself. Blames herself for her failures believes it's her path to save it all. And Hecate is being really harsh here, especially when otherwise she's been supportive of Mel. And I say it's Hecate, cause the entries are written by her with some influences
It's especially paticular that in Mel's entry Hecate is first begins with "You. I know everything about you." It's so particular, and would make sense if were the same person wouldn't it? It's interesting that Hecate's entry updates same time as Mel's.
Hecate is also very similar to Melinoe on a personality standpoint. Both are extremely driven to fighting Chronos. Both seem to have tempers that boil over (especially with regards to Nemesis). Both especially seem to have romantic relationship problems. Melinoe's thousand situationships, is something that Hecate shared with Melinoe, until she took drugs to dull the feelings into becoming asexual. Which makes one wonder why. Unless, maybe, she wants to dull the pain of loss. Going back in time, seeing the loved ones she lost in doing so, that hurts. So better to snip it before it becomes a problem no? Especially since these versions are yours to claim. Either way, Hecate makes it a Point to compare herself to Mel often. Which is a classic mom thing, but Hecate isn't her mom no? Not biologically at least.
And that's another thing. Hecate insists on this distinction. Pushes Mel away when Mel insists on calling Hecate her mother. The way she goes about it, it seems Hecate feels unworthy of the distinction, as if her raising - however, fulfilling or not, is lacking. Made her a child soldier. Which again, feeling as though your actions are lacking is very Melinoe think. Hecate frets about Mel's lack of "independence."
Going back to the Book of Shadows, Artemis's entry mentions that Melinoe isn't one for making friends. That it was luck that Artemis met her when she did. Dora forced the roommate-ship. Frinos hopped into her life, and into her heart. Eris pushes the "Trouble and Strife" (In Cockney English, this is slang for Wife) and forces her into their Date Night Fights to the Death. The Fates made it a prophecy to summon Moros. I can go on. So for Hecate, coming from a presumably doomed future, maybe cause she didn't hold onto the relationships she had, or appreciated them, seeing this Melinoe not be indepedent is something worrying. I'll come back to the Doomed Timeline when I start theorizing about what happened with Hec.
And Hecate also pushes others away. Circe is the biggest example. Feels unworthy. Chronos mentions that Melinoe cannot fit anywhere - if such is the case, why bother making connections? Why not dull you romantic/sexual urges with drugs? This is not your time, it is never your time.
Hecate also fights like Melinoe. Splitting aside, when she uses the torches she sends out little spots that resemble the attack when Mel uses Ygnium. She also does a modified spin with flames circling that could be interpreted as the special. The rest of her moveset is borrowed from Selene's power. The morph - we can learn a hex that does something similar. Hecate eventually starts adopting the Lunar Ray hex into her fight. When she does those floor ripples, it's very similar to the Living Nightmare special. Heck, the flames attack I mentioned early is reminiscent of the Living Nightmare attack function. There's also the fact that the torches Hecate uses seem to be the same aspect of Melinoe's aspect of Ygnium and Hecate remarks that Mel uses them distinctly from Hecate herself yet there's no aspect of Hecate - huh.
There's also the cauldron - every other witch has their own, but Melinoe shares with Hecate. The spells and their types - Mel and Hecate share this. Compare with Medea and Circe - who use their own spells in their own way (and which, by the way, we hear each time exactly how they do it when we enter their room/island). Melinoe doesn't like eating animals, and her recipes are notable vegetarian. Hecate remarks once she would give Mel some ingredients if she could. Medea also mentions that Hecate wears her veil (as all witches have) literally - and Hecate refuses to remove the veil even in the bath. Wonder why...?
Speculation on Hecate's own Past
So if Hecate is Melinoe, what's up with her? How did this happen?
Well presumably, Melcate (who I'm gonna call our Hecate until she adopts the disguise appearance in our timeline) also got her life ruined by Chronos. But without a mentor, her escape (or slipping through the cracks) happens with her growing up alone. Training herself on her own and getting better. She picks up magic (even against the stigma it has as Circe points out) and uses it to fight. Eventually, on her own, without Olympus's help cause persumably she never meets Artemis here, she gets to Chronos, but it's not enough.
Meanwhile, she does make connections with her versions of Nem, Moros, Eris, etc. But she never values those relationships to the extent that she should. She's been independent until now, aren't they just distractions? The mission is always more important, ignore everyone telling you you're self-destructing, that you're putting this family you never knew above the people you do. You don't care. And you lose them. Lose them one by one (funny, how Hecate forces Retribution Incarnate to stay in guard duty. But if there's a reason for it...).
Melcate fails. Fails at achieving her goals. Loses all she has gained in the process. Perhaps, if she is never close enough to Moros, never reaches the surface as he never gives her the incantation. Never acquires entropy to end Chronos permanently. So it was all for nothing. So what to do?
This is where the Fates come in. Interesting the eldest of the three Fates, likely Atropos cause an older woman would represent a person's demise, has a moon sigil on her forehead. It's possible they spelled the demise of all the world. Realized they cannot go back. So they maybe with Melcate hatch a plan for Mel to exploit Chronos's time magic and undo all the damage. To rethread history. Interesting, that the Fates in main canon know their fate and send Moros away, but accept their own capture. But if they spell out the future then it can never be changed can it? So they get captured and thus the Future can walk uncharted waters. At least for this. Let Melinoe save them when the time is right and the timeline has changed. And Moros also wields a needle sword...
Moros's aspect of Ygnium spells Doom for its user. Canon Moros, admits to never have using it in a stilted and ominous interaction. We know aspects can represent future users as well as past. But if Moros knew Melinoe, what happens to her, that he takes up the torches? Well if she travels back in time, leaving him alone to face the apocalypse well it starts making sense. And maybe after he's gone they somehow find their way back to Melcate in this reality.
Anyways going back to Melcate. In the past Melcate tries to prevent it all. Becomes Nyx's handmaiden, gets enough cred working with her that Hades and Persephone entrust her with baby Melinoe. Makes the pact with Nyx to protect her children, which would save Mel's three situationships. The rest is history....
Things that Don't add Up
Hecate is a Titaness/her appearance doesn't Line up with Melinoe
This is perhaps the biggest detraction. Hecate is a brown woman with Titan green eyes. She claims, quite insistently I might add, that she's a titaness, neither god nor mortal. Now not getting into how hadesgame makes the distinction about this (as far I as know, we don't know yet) but consider: Hecate is know for her three faces.
In original mythos, they were the same face (as we see in her bossfight) but in more modern interpretations each face has been linked to the maiden, mother, and crone. Melinoe base canon is obviously maiden, Hecate having raised her and is thus mother, the crone is the missing one. It's too early to assume, but the Fates sisters we see the crone have a moon sigil on her forehead. Connection? Who knows. Doesn't change that Melinoe is an epithet for Hecate herself and Changing appearance is some innate to Hecate.
There's also the living nightmare moveset. The Living Nightmare Moveset changes Mel's appearance, deepens her voice. And well, Hecate could very well be in a permanent state of Living Nightmare, hence her appearance is like that.
Alternatively, Chronos mentions that Melinoe has a distinct resistance to his time magic - that this is recessive. Hecate dismisses this when Melinoe brings it up, but maybe there is some truth to it. If Melinoe has a Titan Aspect - that is Hecate, this could make sense. It also makes her appearance closer to Chronos himself.
Details like Hecate's green hair and eyes, well what happens when you overreach with magic? You lose something. Hair is associated with magic. So are eyes needed to see, especially the future. Could be in doing these time travel magics, Melcate costed both for herself. And a lock of hair was often used as an offering for the Fates after all.
The only problem with this, and I can't shake the comparison, is that it doesn't remove the race-swapping allegations. And there has to be a discussion here, about how a white girl becomes a black looking woman and visa versa. Even if in her myths she's described as having both black and white skin. It can be in poor taste at best and I honestly part of the reason why I still I'm not 100% with this theory, evidence aside.
Hecate's references to Hades and Persephone
This one I admit, it's kinda stumping me. Hecate never was close, we know from Hades I. But she does make some references here and there. Persephone's laugh, for example, is reference in the first flashback. Another convo has Hecate mention how Melinoe is similar to Hades, but is resembling Persephone more. How to reconcile this, idk but we also don't know how far into the quest Hecate got before reversing time. Maybe she met both, maybe she talked to Hades a lot more and made judgements. And again, she could have
Hecate's speech patterns
I mention it cause Hecate doesn't talk like Melinoe per se. Mel uses a lot of Hades-isms. Hecate as far as I recall, does not. But this might be intentional on Hecate's part. Why draw attention where it isn't needed?
Anyways there is a ton of evidence. I'm not exactly happy with the possibility of it coming true (don't like the almost Ouroboros aspect of this, and the unfortunate racial implications). But it's a possibility. And I will suggest this possibility here and anticipate it like any other theory.
