What really really gets me with Lionel and Lex dynamic is that the show makes it really obvious that what Lex craves the most is Lionel's love, except that Lionel does, arguably, love Lex more than anyone in that series — the problem is that it's *Lionel*, and being loved by him is actually so much worse for you than if he hated you. Lex kills Lionel in s7 because, more than anything, he's psychotically jealous of Lionel caring more about Clark than he does Lex, he sees it as the ultimate betrayal from both of them, and Lionel does care a lot about Clark at that point, but that ends up with him locking Clark in a kryptonite cage "for his own good" ... which again, just proves that Lionel's love is so much worse than his hatred/indifference.
I think what gets to me about Lex is how deeply he truly pines for the affectionate of a loving family. In the way that he lost his baby brother was so traumatic, it makes sense that he would view Clark as a younger brother as a replacement of the real one that he lost, that he oh so yearns to recreate that familia bond. I can imagine he feels remorse for what he believed he truly did in that car crash, although Clark claims that Lex didn’t hit him ( which he actually did), that experience on the bridge probably brings up painful memories of that tragic night when he loss Julian, that it was his fault. His own doing. And that it was his doing that almost killed Clark. Part of his interest in Clark is to right his wrong, maybe all this helping and doing everything he can to offer his aid and support is an act of liability due to his guilt.
And wow he was soo hopeful, so eager, at the potential that they could be half-brothers (only to find out it was really Lucas later on). It’s just throughout the series he always saw him as a brother. Their friendship truly meant something meaningful to him.
Jin lan city is one of my fave arcs in SV bc we have all this wonderful tension coming to a head. Sqq's devotion to binghe turned over its head, into fear and animosity
meanwhile binghe laboriously built himself up, meticulously planned and manipulated his way into a favorable political position both in the demon realm and as a huan hua disciple
despite his anger and resentment. he thinks this will prove to shizun that hes still valuable. bc xin mo digs its claws into binghes insecurity: sqq either rejected him bc of his demon heritage, or worse. sqq found him unlovable, the person who knew him best, saw the core of who he is, found him insufficient
hell. maybe this was a long con years in the making, sqq hated him since they met, and then only pretended to be nice to binghe so that sqqs betrayal would hurt more
and all this planning bites him in the ass!!!! it makes shizun resent him more!!!
some fics make the mistake of dissolving this tension too early. for the sake of speeding up the bingqiu cuddles
and like i think thats a waste bc those same misunderstandings, when resolved with good storytelling, lead to a satisfying conclusion that makes bingqiu feel deeper, with a stronger connection !
so anyway theres so many ways the jin lan meeting post abyss couldve gone. RIPE with potential for a variety of fun fanfic scenarios!!!
ive seen truth serum jin lan city aus, or obedience spell aus. even ones where sqq forces a soul connection so binghe. cant kill him without hurting himself
point is!! SO MANY OPTIONS
but my absolute favourite jin lan city aus, the most ironic, juicy, and hardest to execute imo :
aus where Binghe realizes something baffling about his shizun. the key to successfully manipulating SQQ and resolving this post-abyss misunderstanding.
its not through demonic power, prestige, manners or huan hua palace.
it's by binghe showing the most unlovable, weak side of himself. that makes sqq crumble like wet tissue paper IN AN INSTANT
if binghe in jin lan city cries, if hes hurt or sick, sqq will be there to help him immediately despite sqqs fear of binghe
sqq is so so weak to white lotus binghe that he would risk getting mauled by the demon emperor. bc he cant hold back his own need to coddle binghe
a sub point to this same weakness sqq has; jin lan aus where binghe pushes the limit of "how far will shizun go to pamper me?"
that one is tricky bc. it can sound OOC if written without believable buildup
disciple white lotus binghe is aware that sqq favours him; sqq vastly prefers binghes cooking over any other food. sqq got without-a-cure for binghes sake. binghe is head disciple.
but its not always that binghe realizes how FAR sqq would go to coddle binghe, and worse, sqq justifies it and lies to himself about it. "its only what binghe is owed! hes the protagonist! this world was built for him!"
so in some delicious jin lan aus, binghe goes; ok ok. shizun hates me now. but when i hug him.. he doesnt push me away? when i kill all the sowers, and jin lan proclaims me a hero, and i ask for shizuns hand in marriage... he doesnt DENY it to me??
shizun doesnt look happy. but he goes along willingly!?!?!? WHAT IS GOING ON
basically it leads to more misunderstandings before a resolution BUT ITS SO JUICY!? SQQ's love for binghe vs his lying to himself about loving binghe! a truth he can hardly admit in the privacy of his mind !
and binghes confusion blending with his delight and the stinging betrayal of 3 years ago!!! CHEFS KISS
example below of this dynamic; from Sadie Hawkins fic by X_los
Miss Faelicy I would love to get your opinion on Bingqiu.
I see people posting things like how they are "problematic" and how they don't really love each other and SQQ only feels sympathy etc. Obviously there were struggles between them as there should be (considering all that happened) and just because sqq wasn't very open and super obvious about his feelings doesn't mean they are not there..this is how I interpreted it. I would love to know your opinion
Hello! This also covers part 2 of the previous ask.
First, massive spoilers for the end of the novel. Second, a disclaimer: I despise shipwars, which I think are behind most of those comments. I hate them because it's usually all in bad faith: everyone's already committed to their interpretation of the ships, and any discussion is just a guise for justifying their preferences.
So to any readers: I don't want anything here to be used as shipwar fuel. This post is about Bingqiu's canon arc and themes. Basically, I don't know or care if Bingqiu is a good ship, but I do think it's a well-written one.
I'll start by saying directly: for most of the novel, Bingqiu is neither healthy nor romantic. And that this is not bad writing, but on purpose.
A relationship that drives one party to mental breakdown isn't healthy. A relationship where that party says it's okay to hurt or kill them can't possibly be healthy. That happened because there was something deeply wrong with their relationship, something that can't be reduced to Xin Mo, miscommunication, or LBH throwing a tropey yandere fit.
And out of all three MXTX novels, only SV lacks a love confession from the MC to the ML. Again, I don't think it's an oversight, or just because SQQ's face is too thin. There are plenty of ways MXTX could have worked a subtle one in if she really wanted to.
In my opinion, Bingqiu's narrative can be split up into four arcs: Qing Jing Peak (ch 1-27), Jin Lan City (28-43), Post-revival (29-55), and Reconciliation (56-81). Other than the first arc, where their relationship is pretty straightforward, Bingqiu spend most of the rest in direct conflict.
I'll give an overview of the arcs here, but what I truly want to say about Bingqiu starts in arc 4, so if you're impatient you can scroll down. But the overview might help add context.
Jin Lan City arc is about LBH's anger at being brutally betrayed by the one person he thought he could trust. Here he tries to force answers out of SQQ, who he believes both hates him and is a hypocrite. He's driven by a desire to return to the past, but his rage and love makes his actions contradictory: on one hand he tries to win SQQ's approval constructively, by climbing to the top of Huan Hua Palace and performing good deeds, on the other hand his belief that SQQ doesn't care about him so it's all futile anyway (reinforced by SQQ's own actions) causes him to lash out destructively, going as far as to hurt and imprison SQQ.
LBH's bitterness is portrayed very negatively, because all it does is instill despair into SQQ, until SQQ ends up believing that he's only been a blight on LBH's life, and that he must make up for it by killing himself. Whereupon LBH breaks down, regressing into a childlike state. Some might ask, why does LBH never bring up the Abyss again afterwards? It's because he gives up here. This entire arc is about getting LBH to let go of past wrongs and to stop seeking answers, whether the reader believes it's fair to him or not. Because SQQ's life is more important.
Post-revival arc then is about SQQ trying to come to terms with a blackened LBH who also loves him. Interestingly, despite SQQ's horror at realizing LBH was romantically interested in him all along, SQQ actually has a very subtle but telling secondary reaction. To explain, let's back up to the first arc.
Starting around ch 9, probably as a sign of his growing affection, SQQ begins addressing LBH as 这孩子, or "this child," in his internal monologue, instead of LBH's name. He does it once each in ch 9, 12, 17, 21, 25. However, once Jin Lan City arc starts, SQQ drops the address entirely. LBH and "child" are never brought up together except for one snarky comment on LBH's tantrum being disgracefully childish in ch 38.
At first glance this doesn't look noteworthy because LBH by this point is no longer a kid. But when LBH kisses him in ch 49, SQQ changes again: right away he returns to using "child" on LBH, and the "this child" address starts popping up at a much higher frequency. By the end of SV SQQ has referred to LBH as a child in some manner at least 35 times (yes I went and counted), with the vast majority after ch 49, and he continues to do so right into the last extra.
Why was SQQ unwilling to use this address of affection for over 20 chapters? Perhaps because he too thought LBH hated him, and couldn't bear to think about him so intimately knowing that. So SQQ immediately falling back into it the moment he learns LBH loves him is a sign of his relief. He's still dismayed at the romantic part, but though SQQ likes to deflect from his real emotions (this is the guy who focused on bad naming sense after being fatally poisoned, who cavalierly commented only after it was all over that he'd expected to die), the fact that LBH loves and doesn't hate him, means a lot.
Here SQQ's feelings towards LBH are at their most complicated. He still assumes the worst of him like in Jin Lan City, but now because of the above, also sees a lonely child whenever LBH is unhappy and lost. It's like he has two filters actively interfering with each other, "crazed criminal" and "pitiful child," and so he flip-flops between pushing LBH away and comforting him. But when LBH drags CQMS into it, and even seemingly takes advantage of SQQ's love for him, SQQ's negative image and frustration with him only grows, until he finally snaps and tells LBH to never come near him again.
At this point SQQ still believes that LBH is the same black-hearted, invincible, devil incarnate that og!LBH was portrayed to be. The Reconciliation arc starts by chipping away at this filter that's been plaguing SQQ for so long. First the revelation that TLJ/ZZL was behind the sowers, thus clearing LBH's name at Jin Lan City. Then we see how unloved he is by his own father; we see him injured and helpless and unconscious. Meng Mo yells at SQQ, reinforcing that image of a vulnerable, terrified child. So by ch 62 SQQ has thrown away the "crazed criminal" filter completely, and in that same chapter they cling to each other and finally make up. Because while it's true that the current LBH is misanthropic, antisocial, and mercurial, SQQ has also finally accepted that he's still the same LBH he'd raised and doted on, back on Qing Jing Peak.
Now I'm going to talk about what I see as the most important part of Bingqiu. Yes, despite the wall of text already.
A common sentiment of Bingqiu shippers about their issues seems to be, "SQQ is dumb and oblivious; he can't figure out what LBH needs even though he loves him because he sees LBH as a novel character," but I think the problem is far more complicated and insidious than that. If that was everything, why give SQQ the epiphany that he misunderstood LBH so early? Why have him think in ch 66 that "truthfully, he'd never really trusted Luo Binghe, and that's why he kept accidentally hurting him?" If he's already realized that he shouldn't treat LBH like og!LBH (he even meets og!LBH in ch 71 to rub it in further), why do we go another 13 chapters believing their relationship is good and well, even giving us a sweet, happy moment in ch 75, only to show LBH having the worst breakdown of the novel just 4 chapters later? Was it all just padding to demonstrate the danger of Xin Mo?
Or is there something else beneath the surface?
In ch 66, the same chapter where SQQ implies he doesn't want to accidentally hurt LBH anymore, he says something telling. When LQG is skeptical that LBH can be trusted, SQQ thinks, 家里孩子不懂事，大人不容易做, or "when your child doesn't know any better, as the adult you don't have it easy." The child here of course refers to LBH, and the adult is SQQ, who's complaining about smoothing over LBH's messes. But what is SQQ implying here?
Doesn't know any better? That's what you say about a toddler who can't think for themselves, not a grown man. LBH is 25 and SQQ thinks he doesn't know better. Doesn't know better about what? LBH's wants, his needs? His feelings? Or even what's good for him?
And then you realize that's exactly how SQQ's always treated him, like a helpless child who can't make his own choices.
It's SQQ who chooses to throw LBH down into the Abyss without trying to talk to him. It's SQQ who decides that keeping silent is the best choice. It's SQQ who believes self-destructing in front of LBH will help, who thinks that breaking off their relationship is for the better. And it's SQQ who scolds LBH into tolerating CQMS, even though they hate each other and CQMS is hostile towards him. Who forces him to leave first at Zhao Hua Temple despite LBH's pleas otherwise, who shoos him out the window when CQMS walks in on them.
Every single one of these decisions, SQQ made believing it was for the best (repair LBH's relationship with his family, help him avoid arrest, not wanting to make excuses, wanting LBH to be free of his hatred), and every single one of them only damaged LBH further. Because SQQ's never listened to him, even once. Never consulted him or considered his feelings.
(And LBH did try to bring up his feelings on one of the matters in ch 75. He insinuates to SQQ that he doesn't like LQG calling him "little beast" or "ingrate." And SQQ's response is to dismiss them entirely, saying that LQG's "not wrong.")
SQQ has always loved LBH, but he's never once respected LBH's agency or personhood. Because LBH doesn't know better and SQQ does, so SQQ must make all his decisions for him.
And this, amplified by Xin Mo, is what finally drives LBH mad in ch 79.
To LBH, the important part isn't whether SQQ loves him, which I think he knew after ch 43 (it's why he can be so daring and pushy with SQQ's boundaries). What's important is that the moment SQQ believes abandoning LBH is justified for whatever reason again, SQQ absolutely will.
Ch 80's two-way noncon (since LBH was basically unconscious and couldn't consent) tends to draw most of the attention, but I actually think that what happens afterwards is one of the most important scenes for Bingqiu. There SQQ tries to sacrifice himself a second time for LBH, drawing Xin Mo's demonic qi into his body. Yet the novel claims that SQQ's actions here are completely different than in ch 43. SQQ himself says that this time he's doing it for LBH, while last time he was doing it for himself. But can the reader see a functional difference?
There is one, in fact: it's SQQ's response to LBH's choice afterwards. LBH decides to follow SQQ in death, even though this would void the point of SQQ's sacrifice. But instead of insisting otherwise, SQQ just accepts it. Because he finally understands that whether LBH's life is worth living, whether LBH will be better off, is for LBH and only LBH to decide.
It's the first time he respects LBH's agency. And this is the only reason why he and LBH can finally begin building a healthy relationship on the mess they've had up to now.
So that's what I see as the true beauty behind Bingqiu. It's about communication and mistaken assumptions, yes, but it's also about the nature of love between parent and child. The romantic developments were left to the extras, I believe, because this was the main story MXTX wanted to tell with them. Their relationship as lovers only starts afterwards, hence why SV ends with, "the story between you and I, has only just begun." It was never meant to be a whirlwind romance where they fall in love cleanly. It might not to be to everyone's tastes, but an incredible amount of thought was put into the narrative, and that's what amazed me when I first finished this novel.
(This post went on way too long and I ended up cutting off a huge chunk of tangential stuff and how SQQ came to his realization in ch 79: he didn't do it alone. It took him seeing the LBH in TLJ and the himself in YQY for him to understand. In fact, YQY and og!SQQ's relationship has a similar parent-and-child dynamic. I've touched on it before on twitter; if there's interest I might try writing that up here too.)
someone on Twitter sent me this wonderful question but my reply was too long to post on curiouscat so I’m replying to it here:
Do you think Clark had anything to do with Lex's descent into evil? If so, how much?
I think Clark and the Kents had the most to do with Lex’s decent into Evil. And yeah the way Lex was raised by Lionel also plays a role but I don’t think that alone would’ve made Lex go evil. Lex wasn’t near evil when we first see him in season one, yeah he may be a bit manipulative and sketchy, but he did good things and was trying to push back against this father (with encouragement from Clark may I add). But Lex knew where he stood with Lionel, knew what to expect from his father and understood what he was or wasn’t going to get from him. He always wanted his fathers love but knew he would never get it. That distinction is very important in understanding that it wasn’t Lionel’s influence that turned him evil.
Clark on the other hand was the only person who believed in Lex and encouraged him to do better. He would tell Lex he trusted him, but never enough to let him know his secret (which we know is a direct influence from the Kent’s). Lex is a naturally curious person, having been taught by his father that you always want to have the advantage and that there’s never such a thing as too much information. Of course Lex is going to want to know what Clark’s secret is, and why won’t Clark tell him if he supposedly trusts him? That automatically puts a rift in their friendship. Even when Lex pushes it aside and stops studying Clark and his family the burning curiosity always comes back and makes him resume his research.
With Lionel their relationship was solidly defined, with Clark their relationship had some blurred lines. Clark is Lex’s best friend, he claims to trust Lex and support him, so why does he keep lying to Lex? The constant lying causes a resentment in Lex that is also built up by the fact that Clark also seems to have this “perfect” life compared to him; loving parents, great friends, beautiful loving girlfriend. And Lex wants in that world so bad, but he’s constantly rejected by the Kent’s and everyone is always suspicious of him. Of course he’s going to resent that.
Lex is an emotional person. He doesn’t let his emotions rule him, but he still feels them strongly (as he’s often told by Lionel). This build up of resentment and distrust is what caused him to start to slip from the good path and fall into evil. Then, we also have him being manipulated by Brainiac and being possessed by Zod, and whatever the fuck was going on with the traveler plot in season 7 that convinced Lex that Clark was dangerous and needed to be killed to save the world. That shit all pushed him to be evil too and since he had no one there to guide him back to the light (and don’t say Lana when we know they had so many problems and distrust and she only stayed with him to protect Clark) it’s no wonder he ended on the path he did.
Now I’m NOT saying Lex had the right to demand to know Clark’s secrets, or that it was ok for him to research into Clark’s family (he does have the right to look into meteors and the alien-ness of Smallville), what I am saying though is that it’s in Lex’s nature to do so, so really from the start they were a bit of an explosive combo doomed to fail unless Clark stopped lying or Lex stopped his research. And I think that’s what makes their relationship so interesting, and part of why fanfic for them is so good. Fanfic explores what they could become if one of them did stop what they were doing that hurt the other and I think that’s beautiful and fun to think about.
Anyway I hope this was coherent and not too long of a response. I’m curious to know your thoughts on it, and anything I said that you may disagree with. Thanks for the lovely question xoxo ♡
y’know it makes perfect sense that richard (presumably) likes the story of the pied piper, because it’s about someone with a unique/valuable skillset who does a good job but who then gets screwed over, and then gets to exact some truly magnificent revenge. sounds like hendricks to me.
Shen Yuan's problem is that he is still thinking as a reader when dealing with Luo BingHe, so he still doesn't get that the guy is completely different from the Demon King he read about, and has different motivations and feelings, so he takes everything Luo BingHe says at face value and from his previous knowledge. Of course, there's also the fact that he is deep in denial on how much he cares about him.
Bless you for saying this so perfectly.
I think I expressed something similar somewhere in my screams, probably during one of those scenes where shizun shows all his denial and keeps thinking of himself as a reader.
Mostly, the point is:
-Lbh has been in love with him for years, has been betrayed by his shizun, rejected and then saved by the same person, who ended up dying. He mourned and had to endure it all for five years, just to find out shizun is not dead. Of course he feels dejected; of course he feels angry and frustrated and needs answers and tried to find everything he can to gain those answers. Mind it, this doesn’t justify eventual violence, but lbh has never been one to bottle things up that well, and it’s starting (FREAKING FINALLY!!!) to show.
-Meanwhile, Shizun is a reader who ended up in a novel he read, so he feels giddy and excited, but detatched from the events that occur, and he thinks that it’s okay to act as long as the only thing changing is him staying alive, which is amazing and legit and everything a reader would love to have the chance to do?! He goes on with the plot, does mostly what the plot commands -and all this suppressing his feelings, because he lets himself enjoy the little things (his spiritual powers, his sword, sqq’s home), but the rest (relationships with people in the sects, with his disciples, with lbh, the events in general)… he almost always lives it all as if he is just a bystander with a script, as if those things can’t and shouldn’t touch him, but they do. Above all, he just doesn’t get that he has direct influence on the main character, how the people all around him care about him and that the world he lives in is his world now! And that causes him to be in absolute denial about his own feelings.
So how can sqq trust someone who he sees as destined to kill him? How can he see past the facade and understand how deep and complex lbh’s thoughts and feelings are? How can he go past his reader self and allows himself to fully live where he is right?
is it strange that lbh and sqq can’t seem to sort their problems out? not at all! i’d be surprised if they ended up making it work! (tho we know they will, my babies).
1) Lex truly looks right at home under Metropolis grey city colors which really brings out the banishment aspect of him being Smallville - he doesn't fit there, as much as he starts wanting to and opens his heart to the citizens he'll always be viewed as something other that doesn't belong, and as much as he doesn't want to, as he views Metropolis as Lionel's playground and somewhere that brings the worst in him, it's where he truly fits.
2) Love the casual mention that Lex would spend a small plant profit amount in a "weekend in Hong Kong" during his drug addict club days and Lionel calling it pocket money.
3) How much Lex is actually really really into being evil with his father. Like that boy is HAVING FUN. They are BOTH having fun. This is a game for them and Lex like it or not greatly enjoys it. It's also very noticeable how different Lionel is with Lex vs with Dominic. Dominic is, of course, a pet dog. Lex is someone Lionel likes having around and who he truly wants to have in a position where they have a back and forth (as much as Lionel can manage) equals dynamic.
4) The icing of the cake for me is that Lionel is truly proud, that Lex is not a rich brat anymore but a very competent plant manager who isn't above drugging someone and putting them on his car truck to deliver to his father. Like yeah this is the son he wants, this is proof that Lex is ready to take the spot that is rightfully his by Lionel's side in Metropolis EXCEPT Lex didn't do this for Lionel. He did this because Dominic as snooping around the Kents, poisoning Jonathan (even more) against him. The Lex that Lionel wants Lex to be doesn't appear when Lionel was abusing and controlling him but he does appear when it's time to protect and defend the Kents and the place he wants to have in that family. Which of course, ties with the fact that Lex's first kill at the end of the season happens because he wants to protect Jonathan. The Kents little dark guardian angel etc etc
