#syanalyses

[ceoandslutler]

I read through @ulixneriadne’s post here and I found their response fascinating so I spontaneously decided to write a short analysis loosely based on the sentence that they were originally responding to:

At this point in the story, Sebastian has ceased to seem like so much of a separate entity, as a kind of amoral conscience or ego for Ciel.

I absolutely disagree with this as a whole but there is an aspect of this sentence that I want to talk about and partially agree with. In Freudian (and Jungian) psychology, the concepts of Id (Shadow), Ego and Superego (Persona) essentially make up the person. Sebastian is Ciel’s Ego, as in he is a combination of Ciel’s worst aspects (his id, his most animalistic and darkest desires... he’s literally referred to as Ciel’s shadow) and his best ones (his superego and what he should aspire to be... and the one who serves the persona of ‘Ciel Phantomhive’).

Sebastian gives Ciel the power to do self-righteous things, which may be wrong or selfish, while also urging him to do good and be selfless. Ciel has pride in Sebastian (as evidenced by the way he defends him and tells him to ignore his status - see: Luxury Liner arc) while also refusing to accept himself or Sebastian as good people (something both he and Sebastian enjoy being seen as, as evidenced by how they respond to Abberline praising them in the Blue Cult arc).

I am like @ulixneriadne in the sense I take what Sebastian says at face value... Not always, but mostly. In fact, I think Sebastian suffers from the same thing Ciel does, he’s edgy as hell and that’s the only thing that makes him unreliable. I believe the narrative wants us to like the Ciel and Sebastian, I believe it paints them as morally grey but not amoral. As dark a story as Kuro is, I have never seen it as a story where you follow anti-heroes. To me, they're just heroes. Firstly, their means are not questionable nor do they have traits that make them unheroic. They go through very simple means to be honest. In fact, even when they take an approach that causes unneeded harm, they either repent (e.g. at the end of the Red Butler arc, at the funeral) or are forced to take on responsibility (e.g. having to take in Snake after the Circus/Murder arc(s)). I actually think these characters are heroes, just not conventional ones. I also think the villains are not anti-villains, they are just villains. Undertaker is a unique villain but he isn’t really doing anything noble, he is selfishly trying to save a family he cares about. The people who attacked the manor also aren’t anti-villains. This story isn’t black or white but it’s really not hard to see who does good things and who does bad things. Ciel’s goal may be selfish but he’s not really doing anything wrong? He has to impersonate his brother so they’ll come for him. He is doing a good job. Yes, he lies to people, but he presumed he’d die as Ciel after his revenge since his brother was not supposed to come back. His worst action was during a mental breakdown, but he’s not the main protagonist, Sebastian is. And Sebastian tried to persuade him not to order him to kill the children in the Baron’s basement. But he had to because it was an order: an order from a child having a PTSD attack.

So I have a lot more to say on this (evidently) but for now, I’ll end it with the simply statement that I don’t think Sebastian is an extension of Ciel at all but he does represent Ciel as well as being a sort of catalyst(?) for his ego. I’m exhausted right now so maybe I can articulate myself better in the morning. For now, I’ll say the post I’m replying to is very interesting so I recommend everyone takes a look at it as well to get a nuanced perspective on the statement as I didn’t really go into it and just focused on the ‘amoral conscience or ego for Ciel’ part of it.

[ceoandslutler]

“My butler is dedicated and earnest.”

Sebastian and Ciel in Kuroshitsuji 219 | Part 2

See part 1 here

We start off the second page being reminded that Ciel is a child in this world as the hotel staff looks at and refers to Sebastian as sir and seems to be speaking to him when informing them about the smoking room but again we are reminded that despite being a child, Ciel is the one in control here as he's the one who answers for both of them.

So they go to the smoking room, we are shown who's in the room and obviously Modri is there and he approaches Sebastian again. The tension in the moment is largely cut by old man Fairchild getting Rodney to bring in some sort of entertainment device.

On the device, there are 20 words, love, future, past, memory, dream, desire, etc... each corresponding to one of the "tales each of [them] secretly hold in [their] hearts" and Sebastian thinks it's a good time to get Modri to spill the beans on exactly what happened.

Ciel's expression here mirrors the one he had on the first page, just more nervous. He has constantly been on edge this whole time, his mouth is downturned as always but his brows and even his eyes seem to be drawn in a constantly concerned and overly observant way. Here's a good time to remind everyone that Ciel is not actually the main protagonist. We spend longer in Sebastian's thoughts than we do Ciel's. Right in that panel, we don't know what he's thinking. Yes, he might be similarly to Sebastian focused on getting info from Modri but is he also not curious about someone else in that room? Someone he starts off the chapter with asking, "Is [the food] to your liking?" For Ciel, he has shown subtle signs that he is at least a little bit curious about Sebastian, I think the best sign of it was the scene at the start of the Emerald Witch arc where he starts by asking something but doesn't go through with it. Ciel struggles to find out about Sebastian.

Probably the funniest moment here is when Ciel (as usual) verbally stands up for Sebastian, describing him as dedicated and earnest—traits he has imposed on Sebastian by force of the contract* and that Sebastian almost certainly did not have pre-contract if Modri knew him before... But we know that Modri might not have known him before because Sebastian (whether he's unintentionally lying or not, we don't know) claimed that he only took this form for Ciel and he hasn't appeared in it before so unless Modri is recognising something other than his face, Ciel's words are technically correct. Though contractually, his butler is only meant to be dedicated and earnest for him.

Anyway, right after saying he can't imagine Sebastian doing that, he says "anything is possible" and reassures Modri he'll listen to him much to the chagrin of the person being discussed (who asks, "Are you enjoying yourself, young master?" and clearly he is as he's holding back laughter).

All in all, a good chapter setting up that Ciel wants to know about Sebastian, Sebastian wants to know about Modri and Modri wants to warn Ciel about Sebastian.

*I know I said he enforced dedication and earnestness through the contract but Sebastian was less dedicated and earnest at the start of the story than he is now which is a testament to how their relationship has developed through the story.

Extra:

This chapter really reminded me of the black butler anime season 1 original episode 9 that was not canon to the manga whatsoever but supposedly shows the person that is most special to the person being photographed but is "not of this world" and Ciel orders the other servants to take a picture of Sebastian to see who he cares for. Ciel ultimately is not successful in seeing the photo as that damn non-canon naked man dog Pluto ruins everything but we do see that (for Ciel) at least, the one he cares for the most who is not of this world is Sebastian (since Sebastian is the one taking the photo). Unless Pluto cares the most about Sebastian because again that damn naked dog man appears in the photo because he launched himself at the window or something. I fucking hated season 1.

But Ciel's curiosity reminds me that episode and the fact the tales include "love", "past", "memory", "secret", etc... is very interesting.

[wrydemonandslychild]

there's something so very thematically satisfying about ciel reflecting joker and sebastian reflecting beast

you can literally flip the page and joker/ciel and beast/sebastian would be on top of each other.

yana herself drew comparison between joker and ciel and i think the blue teardrop on joker's eye being the same colour as ciel's not blind eye is a really cool detail and in the art above where if you flip the pages, the characters land on top of each other, only one of joker's eyes is revealed, just like ciel. honestly i completely adore this idea that these two are connected both in their disability and in the fact they have to work for a corrupt person who has a higher status than them to survive (joker -> baron kelvin, ciel -> queen victoria) but nobody ever really talks about beast and sebastian... maybe because he had intercourse with her for intel and people think that's where the tie between them ends but i think there's something so interesting about the fact they're two characters who visually align in colour scheme, association with cats and even in their physical strength/noukin-ness (her hasty whip to betty and attempting to hit sebastian multiple times)

but also the fact joker and doll are the ones that haunt ciel (since he hurt them the most—especially considering the way he used his noble status to degrade them both and joker even called him out on this "you are a noble, after all" - read more about this here). but he also reflects them best.

however sebastian is not haunted by beast... or is he? let's talk about joker and beast's tragic parting, the last time they ever saw each other

let's really think about this.

at the start of the current arc, while at lau's den, ciel is given an opportunity to go flee to another country now that his brother is back. sebastian clearly did not want him to do this and was agitated (even dissing bard for no reason) so when ciel refused to give up, he was not only surprised but also relieved. but why? yes it's his desire to cultivate ciel's soul after a satisfying revenge but also because he wants the game to go on longer. if ciel gave up there, not only would he have to give up a perfect meal but also the fun he could have playing!!

now when did he reveal that he liked the game they were playing? oh right in the green witch arc when ciel referred to him as a beast. and he said he much prefers being a butler than a beast. hold on... a beast?

perhaps it is not as overt but he too is haunted by his cruel behaviour in the circus arc, in the way that the name of the person he hurt is put onto him again and again (even in the luxury liner arc where ciel calls him a beast after he kills the BDs). ciel isn't aware of what he did to get that information in the circus arc but i imagine even if he knew, he'd just chalk it up to sebastian being a beast. but sebastian himself is slowly but surely becoming more and more of a character who is trying to pull ciel out of darkness than into it.

oh there's the word "beast" again, what a funny coincidence how it keeps popping up to describe sebastian haha anyway this is clearly not corruption. sebastian is actively guiding ciel down the right path. maybe he hasn't told him to give up on his revenge the way beast told joker to give up on taking children to baron kelvin but he clearly isn't inviting ciel to be a bad person i mean blue cult arc chapter 120 confirms this

he's clearly empathetic enough to tell ciel to take care of his tenants and give them something fun to do for halloween even though neither he nor ciel truly get it. if he's inviting ciel to be more empathetic and kind, it is because he himself was affected by the kindness and empathy of other characters particularly agni. ch 120 shows that he is lighting up ciel's path, in a story where ciel has various chances to do a devilish/cruel thing. sebastian may not be good in the traditional sense but he does have pride in him and ciel being perceived as good figures who protect the people (see: abberline).

now let's scroll back up to what joker says to beast "'tain't like ye to be acting like this" and what ciel says to sebastian at the end of the green witch arc "it's not like you give a damn about humans"

these are both invitations to doing the right thing that are being mocked because it's not possible or it's too late or because the person the invitation is coming from is "beast". it's like when sebastian tells him to smile and he says he's forgotten, ciel is fatalistic and so was joker and ultimately that led to joker's downfall. ciel might not be able to defeat his adversaries if he doesn't go the right path and he may end up having everything "stolen from him" again especially if he remains loyal to the queen (something something war something something she knew what she was doing when she sent him to germany, she's using him).

but this analysis is about sebastian and beast and in my mind, i think these characters are trapped in the idea their companion have about them. she's a beast (literally, it's her name) and he's a beast (he is a demon) and it's simply tragic that there may come a time in this story where sebastian may try to guide ciel down a more righteous path but ciel's orders are absolute and he can easily veto sebastian's own will, just like joker ultimately ends up doing, sending beast and the others to their demise. ciel may be the reason for them both dying and it all depends on if yana wants to follow this parallel to the end or let ciel be different.

[ceoandslutler]

What do you think about sebacielizzy? I see you like sebaciel and also sebalizzy (I think) so im curious.

i like sebalizzy in the "i wanna dissect them" sort of way and i honestly more so ship cielizzy than sebalizzy. i really like sebacielizzy but not really in the ship way idk i just find the dynamic between these three characters so fun - i think it's really fun to think about how sebs views cielizzy. he genuinely thinks ciel's in love with her. he might be in love with her. it is lowk implied by the blue memory arc's chapter 144 cover that he liked her.

analysis below

but he never felt jealous to his brother. he never did anything in his childhood that implied he liked her more than a cousin. he knew his place. he never even wanted to be watchdog. he even internalised the way his father and aunt discussed him being a spare (vincent even joked about his uselessness). honestly go read chapter 132, after he overhears his father/aunt talking about him, vincent takes the boys out (presumably the next day) to see around the earldom. this is where we get one of the big examples of r!ciel having a typical noble perspective while o!ciel has his softer kinder perspective (o!ciel wonders how many people there are in the earldom and says it'd be difficult to grant all their wishes while r!ciel says they have to take care of the people on the land so they'll "work hard" for them, even comparing them to sheep). it is in this chapter where o!ciel reveals he wants to leave the earldom and go live in london and sell toys. you might think "oh obviously, he was stuck inside and he didn't want other kids to be stuck inside with nothing to play with!" correct but also WRONG why did he say this in the same chapter 1) elizabeth cut him off to go see if his brother is okay, 2) his family discuss him being useless? he wanted to LEAVE !! this boy wanted to get out of this place. maybe he did have unrequited feelings for elizabeth, how the hell was he supposed to tolerate that if they lived together/nearby? and more importantly, he didn't wanna hear people saying, "oh if earl phantomhive dies, his useless spare brother won't be able to succeed him!" he was removing himself from that family environment. it was a smart thing to do. why would he go be the vicar or doctor in the lands that his brother ruled when he could just do his own thing elsewhere?

sadly o!ciel ended up playing his brother. but he still made his dream come true. when r!ciel comes back, he mocks his brother's 'middle class' idea of selling toys when he was younger (o!ciel also reads punch so idk how r!ciel would respond to that). o!ciel has said many times that nobles are frivolous, he hated the way they yapped on the campania, the way sebs didn't fight back to charles grey in that easter chapter, he even mocked how the grass of weston was sacred. that's why his relationship with elizabeth is so interesting. she would never be with a second son with no title (asthmatic at that) who had a little toyshop in london. she's a marquess' daughter, of course, she'd never be with him. but she couldn't tell them apart. and o!ciel treated her like a fiancé, no HER fiancé, would...

so who could blame her?

sebastian on the other hand has such an interesting attitude to her, he starts off the story being kind and respectful to her but as it goes on, you can sort of feel a little tension building. in the bca fight, he asks her why she's behaving like this if all she wants is the young master to be happy. and that is really potent. he seems to understand her as being his master's happiness and this was mentioned early on in chapter 14 and 37. it's also why the staircase scene works so well. sebastian is stood next to "mister phantomhive" at the bottom of the stairs while elizabeth is stood next to "earl ciel phantomhive" at the top. it's a delightful image of status and value. sebastian is a demon, hated/feared by humans (as seen in the fortune telling scene where blavat calls him a black hole) and presumably the only other supernaturals (grim reapers) hate demons too. o!ciel is no longer considered the title holder of the phantomhive estate and is a criminal. while r!ciel is the earl, the victim of his brother's fraud, with his fiancée elizabeth (a high-ranking nobleman's daughter) stood next to him, she too a victim of his brother's lies. there is no sympathy or grace for o!ciel and sebastian, the ones who are cared about and are important for victorian society are r!ciel and elizabeth.

in conclusion: yeah sebacielizzy is great! she is a great foil for sebs and i like her a lot, especially with o!ciel. do i think the three of them could work together romantically in canon? hell no! neither of them would want to share ciel and sebaciel work narratively as the only people who truly know each other (and even then, they don't really). but i love these three dearly and could talk about them all day.

thank you for the ask!

[ceoandslutler]

was r!ciel using elizabeth as a bodyguard in the blue cult arc? (short analysis)

inspired by @applestorms' tags

under this post:

so let's talk about it

this is from the last pages of the green witch arc

and this is where we find out that lizzie and r!ciel have reunited (early blue cult arc)

sebastian infiltrates sphere music hall as a tailor during the middle of the arc

and lizzy repeatedly says, "i shall not/wont let you pass!" which is both her first and last dialogue of this fight scene with sebastian. she is protecting something and we soon find out what

this is lord sirius' room in the sphere music hall. we know this because the door has one star. anyway sebastian takes elizabeth to o!ciel but she escapes again and in the halloween chapter, we see her in the sphere music hall again (notice her clothes are the same as when she first reunited with r!ciel).

ut and r!ciel are pictured directly under her. they are in the same building and she is standing outside as a guard of sorts and r!ciel confirms this when he returns (after the blue memory arc)

he says he was incapacitated but elizabeth's support led him to return and sebastian recalls her expression as she physically attacked him and says, "she refused to come home because she reunited with her betrothed" but logically what was she doing? standing guard until r!ciel was ready to make his physical return as an advanced bizarre doll. honestly it's a fascinating way of showing how the child who made her insecure in the first place benefits from her physical strength the most now that he's returned after his death.

[wrydemonandslychild]

i know they say love is trust but i disagree with this. ciel fully trusts sebastian with his life but he doesn't fully trust sebastian with his heart.

yes, he expresses affection by defending him verbally in the circus/luxury liner arc, trying to help him onto the boat during the lifeboat scene, telling him he did well, etc... but he doesn't want sebastian to know that he's 'weak', that he's human. that's one of the reasons he pushes his friends away, he doesn't want to have to grieve them in front of sebastian. he doesn't want to care about people because he doesn't want sebastian to see him care. it's like how he says he wants to advertise to the orphans so they pressure their parents to buy them funtom toys (what parents ..?). ciel's words at the end of the red butler arc are another example of him deflecting from his kindness.

they also say love is understanding but i also disagree with this. ciel seems to think that sebastian in the manga right now is the same sebastian of season 2.

to explain: ciel thinks showing emotional weakness in front of sebastian will make him look down on him. this impression of him is probably due to the day they met. sebastian also thinks ciel looks down on him and sees him as a dog because of that day. the day they met has caused walls to be put up between them.

to put it succinctly, sebastian and ciel are two characters who have fundamentally misunderstood each other, deeply so.

sebastian knows how kind ciel is and yet he still hasn't been able to figure out the extent of ciel's affection for him. he doesn't understand that when ciel tells him it's okay that he sits in first class in the train and from then on, he always sits in first class, that means ciel doesn't look down on him. when he makes him lie down and eat a shitty porridge, it means he cares. when he says his social status doesn't matter against the double charles, that means he does not fundamentally care for class. when he accepts to take the servants shopping at sebs request and doesn't question where he goes when he stops at somerset house, he is expressing that he believes in him (which is different to trust*).

*ciel doesn't trust sebastian enough to directly express his emotions in front of him. he doesn't, however, think that sebastian will ever intentionally cause him trouble. he trusts sebastian's loyalty as a butler and his aesthetics but not sebastian himself.

when he orders him tea while they sit in a first class dining spot, does sebastian believe ciel when he says it's just because he wants to stretch his legs? do you believe him? from ciel's perspective, he knows that sebastian fundamentally does not like fighting undertaker (because he might lose) but in the manor when r!ciel returned, he tried to. he knows that sebastian didn't sign up for battling against a reaper who wants to bring the dead back to life. as much as he considers sebs cold, he knows agni and sebastian were at least on good terms and saw sebs' reaction to his death. he thinks sebastian isn't capable of being upset about all this. but sebastian is. it's evident from the way he's so snide and harsh on the dinner table towards bard and his expression when lau mentions india. ciel might not think seb is upset/annoyed with this situation but he treats him as though he is.

he treats him with care despite not trusting him, he treats him like a human, despite thinking he's a beast. he doesn't understand him but regardless he shows him compassion. and i think that's higher than a love where you know the person in front of you is good and deserving of your love. if you love someone despite not thinking they're capable of caring for you back and knowing they will destroy you when given the chance (see: green witch arc), do you not think that love is beyond anything built on trust and understanding?

it is the most selfless, altruistic act of love.

sebastian does not know how cared for he is, he only knows that ciel doesn't see him capable of any human emotion (which he does have to some extent, when he said he would compensate modri, that was empathy and guilt), he thinks he's seen as a lowly dog by ciel (but we know ciel likes dogs, as we know sebastian made him feel safe despite being "mean" to him) and he thinks ciel cares about his class, wealth and luxuries (this is the same person who wanted to be a middle class toy maker since he was 9 btw)... and yet he still protects ciel with his life (literally), does everything to ciel's benefit (even when he's not ordered to) and gets him the best clothes to express that he believes in him* (again, misunderstanding ciel's attachment to wealth).

*during the school arc, he has already ordered a tailored version of the cox outfit for ciel because ciel had said he would win. in the current arc, he orders a full set of clothes because ciel said he would get his title back. he believes in him but he doesn't understand him.

hs even tries to get ciel to go out and explore brighton in the recent chapters. but why? shouldn't he want this to be over as soon as possible? no because despite being misunderstood as a beast by ciel, while deep inside he enjoys being a human servant for ciel playing a game with him, he is willing to act like a monster at ciel's behest (green witch arc). is that not a potent form of love? to know you are not understood or trusted but still behaving in a trustworthy way and with good intentions? even though he cannot change ciel's perception of him, he still tries to make ciel happy (remember, he always tells elizabeth that she makes ciel happy, he even questions why she's fighting him in the blue cult arc by saying, "you always wanted to make the young master happy, why are you doing this?" paraphrase). and is that not a higher form of love? to know someone does not trust or know/understand you but loving them anyway? to know they will never see you as a fellow person despite any humanity you show and yet trying to bring them happiness anyway?

it is the most selfless, altruistic act of love.

[wrydemonandslychild]

ciel's love interests all have a panel/artwork with him where their hands are holding onto each other, usually presented in similar ways, a tight grip.

but he's only genuine when he has those black gloves on and when he's in a perilous situation and HAS to hold onto these people, to not lose them and to not lose himself. and honestly? i think that's thematically neat. he feels guilt to doll which is why he sees her in his mind during gwa, he never was genuine with her, despite holding her hand the way he holds the hands of the other people in his life who truly matter.

it makes the fact rodney looked at his hands gripping his cane in the elevator especially interesting:

those gloves symbolise his love and connection with the people he's either lost the trust of (elizabeth—found out about his lies and no longer trusts him, he cannot seek her help) or no longer has access to (sieglinde—he's been forced out of his home/city/position so he cannot seek her assistance until he's solved this problem and gone back to london). the only person left is sebastian. question is, how will the hotel (UT) separate him from the one person who already knows the truth of ciel's identity AND will always be by his side regardless of his status? whether he is earl phantomhive (the watchdog) or mister phantomhive (the fugitive), sebastian is forever his, unlike his brother's fiancée or any ally he gained due to his role as the queen's watchdog.

edit: finally found the lizzy panel

[contractuallybound]

people don't talk about it enough so i would like to mention how absolutely sickeningly sexually charged this panel is

while theres an explicit sexually predatory hunger in sebastian's eyes as he gazes into ciel's mouth (which is where he claimed ciel's soul from in the anime), there's something between wonder and fear within ciel's eye as he stares into sebastian's mouth which is intentionally drawn to be seductive here—his fangs aren't large the way they are in the infamous green witch arc scene or the jagged perspective we see in the next chapter, his lips are plump and shiny, tongue slightly visible as he smiles. this directly contrasts ciel's mouth, smaller and not perked up, surprised and either injured (implying oral SA) or dirty (signifying how he was abused). either way, it denotes that he's "defiled"...

and yet as sebastian smiles and says "i shall claim your soul as my reward", his desirous gaze is pointed at the sullied mouth, eyes dripping with want.

his victimhood has not lost him any appeal, sebastian wanted him from the moment he set eyes on him. and even with the shock/fright in his eyes, there's a sense of awe in his stare too, as if sebastian's seductiveness/beauty somehow softened the blow of having his soul being taken away.