#three oaths

[haveyoureadthisfantasybook]

have you read Three Oaths, by Josh Reynolds (2023)?

yes

no

Voting ended onSep 6, 2024

vote yes if you have finished the entire book.

vote no if you have not finished the entire book.

(faq · submit a book)

[connectingsparkingwebs]

Does anyone happen to have a gifset of what we were told in season 1 re the Three Oaths, oaths, etc? And if not could anyone instead point me to an episode and timestamp?

I’m getting that there’s something with - Oaths and not being able to use your power? And it’s sounding like, which is also an impression I got earlier from some posts, serving the Dark somehow lets you evade Oaths? But I don’t actually remember stuff we were told if that was in it (pretty sure second wasn’t?)

(Also trying to figure out what Oath(s) the relevant person broke - my guess is attacking people? …but then didn’t that also happen earlier? Or did that not count for a reason?

…ok also I have just forgotten the third oath…)

(I know I could look up the Oaths but what I’m trying to remember is what we were told.)

[cannoli-reader]

The Three Oaths at Dumai’s Wells

A thing that annoys me in “A Crown of Swords” is when Perrin remonstrates with Kiruna about the Aes Sedai from Salidar ignoring the battle plan at Dumai’s Wells, which called for them to attack from a distance using the One Power.  The Mayene soldiers were assigned to protect them, and the Aes Sedai ignored the plan to push through the battle (they knew they’d be fine, what with the Power and all) and the Mayeners still adhering to their assignment, went with them to protect them, and took casualties doing so.  It’s clear even to Perrin whose political skills are still somewhat retarded by his refusal to accept the duties of his role, that the Aes Sedais’ motive was to get to Rand as soon as possible and take control of the situation, so they made sure they were on the front line.  Regardless of who died for it. 

But Kiruna hides behind the Three Oaths, claiming that they needed to be in danger to use the Power to defend themselves, that unless the Shaido turned to attack their position, if they had remained overlooking the battle, there was nothing they could do. And she’s full of it, but she’s also Kiruna and doesn’t seem to be all that bright, so the others keep their mouths shut, because maybe they see the flaw in her argument and the First Oath prevents them from making it themselves.

First of all, there is the point that the Salidar party included at five Green Ajah, (Faeldrin, Seonid, Alanna, Bera & Kiruna herself) any one of whom should have known the importance of sticking to battle plans, not least to keep other people from getting killed or not understanding why you are improvising.  Either they are complete morons who didn’t see the “flaw” in their role in the plan Rhuarc, Dobrain & Perrin drew up to try to reach the encampment, or else they knew they “couldn’t” comply with the plan but kept their mouths shut. So right off the bat, there is a breach of good faith or failure of competence. 

But secondly, and more important, they are still full of it.  They could have used the Power as a weapon even if not one of them was even marginally threatened by the Shaido.  

Slight tangent: one problem I had throughout the later books with the application of the personal danger loophole to the Second Oath was that it said “last extreme” in regards to defending one’s life. As far as I am concerned, that incorporates a duty to retreat.  If an Aes Sedai chooses to place herself in the path of a threat, that should not justify her then using the Power as a weapon to alleviate that threat, since it is not remotely the last extreme.  Joline or Teslyn could have run away from the battles Mat fought.  Annoura, Masuri or Seonid could have turned around and left the battlefield at Malden. And Kiruna, Bera and company could have turned around and retreated to the hill overlooking Dumai’s Wells.  In none of those cases could they have been said to be facing the last extreme of necessary personal defense.  

And while we are at it, from much earlier in the series, the characters have spoken as if the Second Oath gives them leave to attack Darkfriends with the Power, when the wording of the Oath specifies Shadowspawn. As early as “The Shadow Rising” Alanna says she can’t attack the Children of the Light because they are not Darkfriends. But the Oath only permits them to attack Shadowspawn. If few Darkfriends are far enough gone to be perceptible to an Aes Sedai or Warder’s sensitivity to the Shadow, they should not register as legtimate targets for an Oath-bound sister. 

But back to Dumai’s Wells, where even those personal caveats I have with regard to the Oaths are immaterial.  See, the targets against whom Perrin wanted the sisters to use the Power were the Shaido.  And the Shaido were attacking other Aes Sedai & Warders!  Coiren’s and Galina’s group were the sisters of Kiruna and her companions.  One might contend that being on opposite sides of the Tower’s civil war changed that view in their minds, but if that is true, why is Kiruna so indignant on their behalf, concerning their disposition? She insists that Aes Sedai cannot be handed over to the Wise Ones, so clearly their status has not changed in her eyes.  

Another point that no one considers for the sisters, in general, is that by virtue of the defense of Warders loophole, a sister is barely constrained by the Oath at all.  All the people who are supposedly safe if they don’t attack a sister, are not protected from a sister ordering her Warder to cut their throats, and then, if they have the temerity to fight back in any potentially lethal fashion, she can simply incinerate them on the grounds of protecting her Warder.  If “last extreme” means she can put herself in harm’s way with the intent of weaponize the Power, the Oath cannot possibly be seen to restrain her from using her Warder in such a way.  Which leads to an additional possible work-around for Dumai’s Wells if the sisters were operating in anything resembling good faith - simply send their Warders into the fray, and remain in place to give them cover fire. The group had at least fifteen Warders with them, more than enough to survive danger to allow their Aes Sedai to channel to protect them. 

But Kiruna’s excuse to Perrin suggests she is ignorant or blind. Or more sinisterly, a Darkfriend, though the series later proves her otherwise.  It just annoys me that no one catches her out in this deception or error, making me wonder as well if it’s something Robert Jordan himself overlooked.

[taisharnumenore]

Give up?" Siuan laughed. "I'll be giving up nothing." her back straightened, and her voice began to gain strength, and the passion. "The Oaths are what make us more than simply a group of women meddling in the affairs of the world. Or seven groups. Or fifty. The Oaths are what hold us together, a stated set of beliefs that binds us all, a single thread running through every sister, living or dead, back to the first to lay her hands on the Oath Rod. They are what make us Aes Sedai, not saidar. Any wilder can channel. Men may look at what we say from six sides, but when a sister says, 'This is so,' they know it's true, and they trust. Because of the Oaths. Because of the Oaths, no queen fears that sisters will lay waste to her cities. The worst villain knows he's safe in his life with a sister unless he tries to harm her. Oh, the Whitecloaks call them lies, and some people have strange ideas about what the Oaths entail, but there are very few places an Aes Sedai cannot go, and be listened to, because of the Oaths. The Three Oaths are what it is to be Aes Sedai, the heart of being Aes Sedai. Throw that on the rubbish heap, and we'll be sand washing away in the tide. Give up? I will be gaining.

Siuan to Egwene on the Three Oaths-Path of Daggers, page 359