#trop meta

[leotanaka]

i love that rings of power had celebrimbor call sauron "shadow of morgoth", tell him that the one ring will be his destruction and that he will be a prisoner of the rings forever before giving him the title of "lord of the rings" and that every single one of those moments, despite what was occurring in those scenes, was presented as a victory for celebrimbor and a defeat for sauron.

[iaconite]

celebrimbor pointing out the imperfection in sauron's fabricated reality, as both of them match in skills as a creator. sauron can craft the most appealing illusion in the entire world, but celebrimbor will always sees right through the deception, due to sauron's need for order. the reality he crafted is perfect. too perfect. nothing in this world is perfect. the patterns of the mouse, and the candle is the flaw within his works. celebrimbor merely critiques it.

[lassieposting]

Things that have me fucking feral currently: the fact that TROP has given Sauron at least one Kind To Animals moment every single season. And in the books. And in the movies.

S1: He trips Adar's fleeing horse, rather than killing it, even though he very much does have a javelin in his hand at the time. The horse goes down hard, but we're deliberately shown a shot of it getting up and walking away, uninjured. And this isn't because they're reluctant to show animal injury, because Elrond's horse takes a horrible one that made me cry in S2.

S2: The Warg Incident. And like, while the movies were a bit more ambiguous about the Orc-Warg power dynamic (Azog, for example, is clearly shown being affectionate towards his white warg, while Saruman's warg-riders in TT are neither particularly kind nor particularly cruel to their mounts), TROP seems to take the stance that the wargs are unpredictable and aggressive even around their Orc handlers - when a warg is set loose on Arondir during his escape attempt, the Orcs seem to withdraw until it is dealt with, and the wargs are shown to be caged and chained even in the Orc encampments (contrasting the movies, where they are able to free-roam). The warg shut in with Sauron is visibly calmed by him talking to it, and it takes the bone from him as gently as a pet dog. And although we only see the one interaction between them, it isn't the only one they have: Sauron gets close enough to remove the warg's collar and chain before he leaves Adar's camp (which means he was within biting distance, and the warg chose not to), and plotted with it to kill off Waldreg. That wasn't a Wrong Place, Wrong Time death: that thing was laying in wait for him.

And now S3: He's giving a The Creature from Iron Lung scritches. It nudges his hand with its nose when he stops like a dog who isn't done being petted yet. It makes no attempt to move away from him and shows no fear behaviours. He probably yeets unruly Orcs off the balcony for that thing to catch in the world's most fucked up game of fetch.

And then there's LOTR. There are two throwaway quotes about Sauron and animals from that - one from the books, one from the movies. We know that:

Books: Sauron canonically refers to Shelob, the colossal half-demon spider, as "his cat". He sends her prisoners to eat, and doesn't mind her chowing down on the odd Orc. This could be excused as him just recognising that having her guarding Cirith Ungol is a valuable defence against intruders, except for the fact that he specifically has it reported back to him whether she enjoyed playing with the food he sent her. It's giving "Hey, while you're petsitting, can you send me a photo of my cat playing? I miss her."

Movies: Gandalf tells the Hobbits that "the enemy has many spies in his service. Birds...beasts..." while they're still in the Shire. Which is a pretty colossal sphere of influence for a guy who a) lives on the other side of the continent and b) hasn't left home in person in centuries. While it could be argued that Sauron could coerce or threaten animals into doing as he tells them, we also know that he tends to opt for diplomacy first and war second, and it would be very difficult for him to threaten some random fox living outside Hobbiton. Animals have a different mindset to people; they live in the moment, have simple desires, and don't really conceptualise abstract "something bad might happen someday sometime in the future" fear and anxiety the way people do. Shire-dwelling wildlife, who live in a time and place of relative safety and abundance, have everything they need and would likely be hard to threaten or intimidate into service in that way. So it's more likely, based on how Sauron generally operates, that they're spying for him because he's done something to win them over - made himself seem a friend.

Anyway just absolutely losing my shit over them going full "Sauron likes and is good with animals" like lmao Aulë who, that is Yavanna's kid

[fatcatlittlebox]

I love the idea that @rey-jake-therapist has proposed: that this shot here is a callback to this one in “Adrift.” I agree that this parallel is a strong one. And that next to Galadriel’s broken body, the shadowed outline of a person, presumably Sauron, can be seen. The poetry of such a thought: not just that someone had been there, that someone was meant to be there, but perhaps that someone is there still. There’s an imprint. In another world, the unseen one, or a dream, Halbrand is there still. “He never left.”

It’s clearly shown in TROP that this is their recurring theme. Sauron is the voice that beckons her. It is his presence that she feels in her dreams. He is the last thing she senses before she awakes. It is his face that haunts her in that waking world.

And it's a beautiful and ghostly image that this is something Galadriel and Sauron share. Sleep is not only an intimate act. Aside from the obvious psychological and sexual symbolism here, the Freudian theories and incubus myth -- the implication here is the subconscious connection. In the subconscious and dream world, unexpressed desires can be revealed. Truths are uncovered. Or unrequited fantasies can live uninterrupted. Without the constraints of reality or society. And how moving is it that this is where Galadriel and Sauron are tethered?

[valar-did-me-wrong]

I freaking love the attention to detail in this show 🤌🏽

If you look closely here you'll see, Adar's nails were trimmed & neat when he was under Sauron. But he lets them grow long & claw like after the Uruk Revolution

My headcanon for this is Sauron despises orcs but he has enough love &or respect for Adar to have him as his second in command.. this is because he remembers Adar's elven form & doesn't see him as an Uruk completely. And to reinforce that Sauron will have him appear groomed with slicked back hair, trimmed nails, better clothes that actually are a set & cool accessories etc

Now once Sauron is gone, Adar tries to bridge the gap between himself and his children, by embracing Uruk esthetics a little more.. which imo must have made the transformation from Nenya even more shocking!

Like here he is, after spending thousands of years reclaiming his Uruk side & thousands of years before that accepting himself being an Uruk & suddenly after Nenya all those uncountable scars are gone, the chronic pains resulting from torture that must have become second nature disappear, his skin is alive again, his blood flows red under it, the wild shallow uruk hair have transformed into an elven mane..

..no wonder he got shocked into sense by that!

Imagine getting tortured, having your identity taken, made into a monster, living a fragmented life never fully belonging anywhere, trying to accept & move on from all that to somehow survive for your children & then getting transformed back into how you were before all that!

It would have made him recall everything at once & then he decided to come to terms with it all, accept what was done to him & what he did too, instead of deflecting it away by blaming Morgoth, Sauron or the Valar.. and to me this makes him and his growth & redemption even more special 🖤

[mcpayne]

Arwen wasn't as 'active' in the story due to the generational trauma of her family...

Everyone's goal was to keep her safe. Elrond would not allow her to see combat, even though she was likely fully capable, out of fear of losing her like he lost Celebrian...and Elros, and Eärendil and Elwing.

Galadriel did not want to lose her granddaughter either, after losing her brothers and Luthien, and technically Melian, who returned to Valinor after Thingol's death. Galadriel likely looked at Arwen and saw everything Luthien was, her legacy, and everything she left behind. And additionally, she saw Celebrian, a fresher loss, a harsher loss, though with the comfort of a future reunion.

No one was risking another innocent loss, and yet, Arwen still made her choice, to be left behind. The loss unable to be prevented in the end

[fantasyquests]

As we all know, S1 E7 is the only episode in which Galadriel mentions Celeborn. This happens during a brief period in which, due to a volcanic eruption, she is separated from Halbrand (Sauron). I wonder if this is just a coincidence? It's possible that at this moment, when she is briefly free from Sauron's overwhelming influence, her thoughts naturally turn towards the person she loves the most. From their meeting on the raft onwards, Sauron must have constantly messed with her mind, causing her to be completely preoccupied with him and not allowing her to focus or anything or anyone else.

Another thing that occurs to me is that this is the episode in which Galadriel seems wiser, kinder and more balanced than she has been for a long while. She takes care of Theo, protects him from his own dark thoughts, despair and self-destructive impulses, and gives him sage advice on how a warrior must also struggle against inner darkness. She talks about faith and compassion. It strikes me that this may be the real Galadriel, what she is truly like, and that the aggression and rush behaviour that we saw in the previous episodes were again stressed due to Sauron's influence. He brings out the worst traits in every individual he possesses, emphasizes them and makes use of them, just like he made use of Celebrimbor's ambition and vanity. One possiblity, of course, is to view Galadriel's behaviour in this episode as a consequence of personal growth. The other is the one I suggest above: that in this episode we simply see Galadriel as she truly is, being briefly free of Sauron's influence. 

[perseidlion]

Now that I've finished watching Rings of Power Season 2, I have to say they were right to cast Celebrimbor as an actor who looked older than most of the other elves. People will point out that in canon, he was younger than Galadriel. At first, I didn't really get why they changed that for the show. Was it just for variety? Some other reason?

Well, after finishing the season, I think it's safe to say the reason was thematic.

The tragedy of Celebrimbor is so much greater when he visually reads older to the audience. Here is a man at the absolute pinnacle of his craft. His name is legend. He built an entire city around his forge. He has a talent so rare that Sauron needed him for conquest. If he had been cast as a younger actor, even if he was 1500+ in Elven years or something, his story would read as a naive youth seduced by power. It's so much more poignant and tragic to see the legacy of a master of his craft destroyed along with the man.

Watching fantasy is a different experience to reading fantasy, especially with wacky elf ages. The LoTR movies knew this, which is why Hugo Weaving (39) was old enough to convincingly play Liv Tyler's (22) father even though Elrond probably still looked similar to his daughter's age in the books. It's so it doesn't feel weird for the audience and they don't lose suspension of disbelief.

Episode 8 of S2 (and the episodes that precede it) really hammer home that Celebrimbor's undoing isn't just a win for Sauron - this is a loss for elvenkind. Elrond's utter horror at watching Celebrimbor's written legacy being burned to ash was a brilliant storytelling choice. More was lost at the Fall of Eregion than Elvish lives or a weapon in their enemy's hand. They lost the work of a master - the kind of person who comes around once in an age, if that.

What's more, they didn't just lose Celebrimbor. Sauron destroyed him from the inside, eating away at him until he was a pathetic shell of himself. He tried very hard to turn Celebrimbor from celebrated master to a man corrupted by darkness - both in reality and in reputation. But he resisted with what strength he had left. And his kin saw the truth before he died.

All of this was heightened by Celebrimbor being played by a man older than most of the other elf actors. It was a visual signal of his position of respect and wisdom, regardless of his actual age. That was his position in Elvish society that was efficiently shown by aging him up.

You might not always agree with what the minds behind Rings of Power are doing with their story. But after this season, I trust they do have their reasons and will be eagerly awaiting season 3.